Whoopi Goldberg was suspended from ABC’s The View Tuesday evening after she claimed the Holocaust was not about race. On Monday’s show, Whoopi claimed Nazis and Jews were both white. All of her co-hosts challenged her on that statement. They seemed to be trying to help her get out of the hole she was digging. But, she just continued to dig her hole deeper by arguing her point with them. She doubled down and repeated the statement on Late Night With Steven Colbert on Monday night.
After The View Aired on Monday, the streets were already talking about the staff and her co-hosts being very concerned about Whoopi’s shocking statements. The topic came up while discussing banned books. One book that has been recently banned in some schools, Maus, is a graphic novel about the Holocaust. The Jews were pictured as mice and the Nazis were portrayed as cats. And yet part of the reason for the banning was “nudity.” Mouse nudity?!?
This morning’s episode of The View focused the entire first ten minute segment on Whoopi’s apology. A well as Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League explaining that the Holocaust was about the Nazi’s systematic annihilation of the Jewish people who they deemed to be an inferior race.
ABC News President Kim Godwin made the following announcement tonight on Twitter. “Effective immediately, I am suspending Whoopi Goldberg for her wrong and hurtful comments. While Whoopi has apologized, I’ve asked her to take time to reflect and learn about the impact of her comments.” So does she have to go sit inn ABC in house suspension? I’m not trying to make light of what Whoopi said. There is no excuse for that. But, the punishment reminds me of how a principal treats a teenager who gets suspended from school and told to go home and think about what they did. Whoopi is 66 years old.
Whoopi’s controversial comments begin about four minutes in.
Here is the apology.
This has gotten overblown Whoopi is a good person with no hate in her and I am Jewish and my Grandmother lost her sister and children in the camp
If at 66, she doesn’t know how utterly i ignorant her statement is and how insulting it is she never will. People have been canceled for less and she should have to go to some kind of training. Or she should spend some time with people that know the horrors that were inflected. She doesn’t get to dictate that only color counts as racism. So sick of this ignorant behaviour on both sides of the fence.
Exactly. She should be held accountable, frankly fired. People have been fired for less than this. She keeps getting a pass.
Agreed, she should be thankful she wasn’t fired.
“People have been fired for less than this” So that makes that right? That’s your justification? So lazy.
Are you kidding? She has not EVER been given a pass. She did not work for over 5 years over a comedy skit she did during the Bush administration.
Agreed! She’s diluting the significance of the holocaust, by stating it’s man against man. Hitler viewed the Jews as subhuman, and his goal was genocide.
The Jews, poles, gays, gypsies, professors, and doctors, 3 million poles were annihilated. My mother and father were in camps.
Whoopi’s apology on Colbert was racist. Just because we’re not talking about people who are black doesn’t mean it can’t be racist. Her apology on the view sucked even more.
I meant to say aren’t black…. Do I think she should be fired? No …. Everyone says & does things we regret . We are always learning . Even more reasons not to ban those books. We can’t delete history but we can learn from it.
I think she probably will be fired. She has a bit of a history. Joy will move to the moderation chair.
And Whoopi would be one of the first people to cancel others.
Absolute nonsense.
I agree her statement was ignorant, both socially and historically. I am a black person, when I walk in a room there is no hiding my race. For some reason, her point was that Jewish people are white and it is not apparent that the are Jewish.
HOWEVER, the Nazis treated Jewish people as a “race” and offensively claimed there were tell-tale traits that identified them. That is what Whoopi is not understanding.
Folks, this is what happens when we fail to see things from others points of view and why all this current banning of history is dead wrong.
But even though Jews are white, the Nazis and many others since them look at people and say “Oh they look Jewish.” or “Their last name sounds Jewish”. The hate has not stopped sadly.
Ashlenazi Jews were actually a specific race which is who Hitler initially went after.
Thank you Mzzmojo! Perfectly explained the situation.
Everything you said. I can’t believe how she cut all of the other ladies off while she was talking about how she saw it. If she had looked REALLY LOOKED at Joy’s face, she would have known what she said was out of order and perhaps she should back down. When I see THAT LOOK on a friend’s face when I’m talking, I IMMEDIATELY STFU. She ignored the clues from her co-workers and refused to listen to them….and here we are.
Literally EVERYONE at that table knew that Whoopi was off the rails and she wouldn’t let reel her in as they tried to save her job.
Really well stated, thanks!
I agree. The Nazis saw Jews as an inferior race. They were too stupid to understand the difference. Whoopi should be aware that over 10 million people died as a result of WWII. My father is a WWII vet, still with us ast 98.
“Whoopi should be aware that over 10 million people died as a result of WWII.”
Currently 63% of people under 40 do not know Jews were murdered during the holocaust and a smaller group has never heard of it. But lets keep banning books, canceling people who get it wrong and whitewashing history!
That’s simply not true. 40 million Russians were killed. How many Germans were killed. How many Japanese were killed as a result of 2 bombs dropped. Those 2 bombs are still causing death to this very day. The after effects cause cancer. Mthe area is not habitable but they still try.
People REALLY need to get some perspective, the constant anger, ready to cancel anyone that says something that offends them is ridiculous. People are just ITCHING for things to get on their high horse about so they don’t have to deal with their own crap & fear. She apologized, she was ignorant/uneducated on the subject, she had someone on the show to discuss what she said & to educate those with similar views. Do you people want her to pop a vein? She’s not a trained seal, what kind of “training” do you suggest she undertake? She’s educated herself on the topic and realized her mistake IMMEDIATELY. It’s unreal. People need to concentrate on themselves more & stop worrying about how to properly punish people anytime they utter something they don’t like.
Agreed.
Agree. And well said.
Thank You!
Now be fair, ABC is insisting she write a book report about all the things she learned about the Holocaust during her two week paid vacation, I mean suspension. That’s really, really hard.
It’s ridiculous. The whole, “Now go home and think about what you have done.” seems so juvenile.
That said, her behavior was unhinged and refused to listen to anyone on the panel. Once more with feeling, for Sara in the back, It was about RACE. But only because Hitler thought that Jews were of a different inferior race. And the whole killing people who are not blond with blue eyes was kind of a big hint about the racial component. That does not mean however that Jewish, or even Semite, is a race. Semites include people of many races and include both Jews AND ARABS.
We agree!!! I lost respect for her when she did the whole blackface thing with Ted Danson and thought it was okay because she was black. That loss of respect was exacerbated every time she told the story of choosing the last name Goldberg hoping it would open doors for her in Hollywood. I loathed her long before 2016 and reading about this shit just let’s me know my feelings for her we’re on point. The double standard is real, she’ll be back on air and they will all pretend nothing happened.
We agree!!!
I lost respect for her when she did the whole blackface thing with Ted Danson and thought it was okay because she was black. That loss of respect was exacerbated every time she told the story of choosing the last name Goldberg hoping it would open doors for her in Hollywood.
I loathed her long before 2016 and reading about this shit just lets me know my feelings for her were on point.
The double standard is real, she’ll be back on air and they will all pretend nothing happened.
I agree.
Why is she ignorant?
Judaism is not a race. It’s a religion.
Racism: “ the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.”
If you watched the show, you’d know you would probably feel different. Jeez. Diluting the word that has so much emotion attached to it especially for African Americans in this country is disservice to any progress being made.
The holocaust was genocide. Jewish people were targeted because of they were Jewish not because of their race. That is the point she was trying to make. Hitler didn’t always know who was they were Jewish.
Jewish people come in many races/colors. It’s like saying Christians are a race. Or, Muslims are a race. Or Buddhists are a race. It’s just not factual is all.
While you are mostly correct, what we think of as “race” now is irrelevant. What matters is what motivated Hitler who exterminated the Jews because he felt the were an “inferior race.”
“Adolf Hitler, the leader of the Nazi Party, argued that the Germans was superior to all other races. Hitler became obsessed with ‘racial purity’ and used the word ‘Aryan’ to describe his idea of a ‘pure German race’ or Herrenvolk. The ‘Aryan race’ had a duty to control the world.The Nazis believed that the Aryans had the most “pure blood” of all the people on earth. The ideal Aryan had pale skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Non-Aryans came to be seen as impure and even evil. Hitler believed that Aryan superiority was being threatened particularly by the Jews. Therefore, a hierarchy of ‘races’ was created with the Aryans at the top and with Jews, Gypsies and black people at the bottom. These ‘inferior’ people were seen as a threat to the purity and strength of the German nation.” (SOURCE)
Remember when the Trumpsters were wandering around chanting “JEWS Will NOT REPLACE US”? Those Aryans and skinheads also feel like Jews are “not white.” Also Judaism is different from other religious groups because, although one can convert to the religion. Most Jews have a long lineage and are born Jewish unlike other religions. Jews or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group and nation originating from the Israelites and Hebrews of historical Israel and Judah. Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the ethnic religion of the Jewish people, although its observance varies from strict to none. So that dear, is why this IS about RACE. Hope this helps.
PREACH!!
(Thumbs up emoji)
That is what the Nazis/Hitler believed. Still does not make it correct, that Judaism is a race. Israel itself is made up of Jews from all over the world.
And if we’re discussing Ashkenazi Jews who were targeted by Hitler, then again, race is irrelevant, since they are indistinguishable, visually. In America race is about color and I t believe this is what developed Whoopie’s experiential viewpoint.
For me, there is only one race: Human. That’s where I personally stand on the subject of “race.”
And, yes. Jewish people in whatever country they were born/raised have married within their religion a lot, but that still doesn’t make a religion a race. It’s a false equivalent, imo. And it’s the point I believe Whoopie was trying to make. She was in no way condoning or denying the holocaust, I think that, we can agree on?
“The Anne Frank House has previously written: ‘Jews are not a race, and categorizing people according to race is wrong and dangerous. Even so, some people still believe in the concept.”
The trumpsters are a different subject and I’ve got opinions on that whole event, especially as a Virginia-born girl. But as we’re discussing the holocaust and the term “racism” I’ll stick the topic otherwise I’ll be typing all night 😁
I disagree with the term “Jewish ethnicity” and your ideas about combining religion and race. That’s where I stand.
“While there are clusters of Jewish genes, plenty of people have those genes but aren’t Jewish, and plenty don’t have them and are. DNA does not make you a Jew.” From chabad.
Jewish people are a multi-racial group.
I would also like to point out that it’s black history month and it’s important to have these sorts of informative (and civilized) discussions with one another. 😊
/end rant.
Oddly, I was working on a Black History Month Spotlight while you were typing this.
“The Anne Frank House has previously written: ‘Jews are not a race, and categorizing people according to race is wrong and dangerous. Even so, some people still believe in the concept.”
And the REASON they wrote that was because HITLER viewed Jews as a race. Which is why is was both genocide and racism, even if the racist had no idea what race was. The concept of “race” has changed over time (it’s been 70 years since the holocaust.) In another 70 years the definition will have changed again.
I compare what Whoopi said to a Caucasian stating, “all lives matter”, in response to #blacklivesmatter. Obviously, all lives matter, but it is an insensitive and inappropriate and offensive thing to say in this context. I’m Jewish and I am deeply offended by what Whoopi said. The state of Israel was created in 1945 so that Jews could have a safe place to live in case history repeats itself. Only persons who are Jewish (not including those who convert) are able to obtain citizenship. Of course Whoopi apologized. She’s not an idiot. She wants to keep her day job. But the apology is Bull shit and means nothing. If she’s really sorry, make a donation to a Jewish organization.
Ha! That’s a very stereotypical Jewish thing to say. “Make a donation.” Really? That cracks me up. Whoopi has had many controversies in her past. She has A VIEW. That is the whole point of the show. And frankly, if the show really does support multiple views, this whole thing is absurd.
It’s good to know you are in her head and know what she thinks.
Hitler: “First, the Jews are definitely a race and not a religious community. The Jew himself never classifies himself a Jewish German, a Jewish Pole, a Jewish American, but only a German, a Polish, an American Jew. From the foreign nations in whose midst he lives the Jew has adopted very little more than their language. A German who is compelled to use French in France, Italian in Italy, Chinese in China, does not thereby become a Frenchman, an Italian, or a Chinese; similarly a Jew who happens to live among us and is thereby compelled to use the German language cannot be called a German.” So yes. We agree Tamara that Hitler labeled Jews a “race” to DISCRIMINATE against the Jewish people and fulfill his sociopath is ideology and hate (and jealousy really) to kill so many innocent humans beings.
The Nazis and/or anyone involved in the savage death(s) of their fellow human beings are despicable. And by their own definitions they, are the “other” and the inferior/non-human “race.”
You will never know what Whoopi’s intention was or her beliefS, prejudice, etc. because you don’t know her and you’re not a mind reader.
Well I can hardly wait for you to explain it to me.
In between your support of the egregious acts of the Israeli’s crimes against humanity against Palestinians, I’d LOVE to hear your thoughts on the Holocaust.
But we will “never know” Heidi’s “intentions” and thoughts despite her words since we “don’t know her” and are “not mind readers.” 😉
Uh oh TT, they’re not ready for that conversation. However, I thought I’d use your comment to highlight the fact that through 12 years of public school, I was NEVER taught but one side of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. In fact, it never occurred to me that what I taught was incorrect until I listened to the men at my church talk (many of them were retired military), about what they saw and experienced regarding that conflict while they were active duty military. As educated as I am, the first time I learned about some of the atrocities visited upon the Palestinians was hearing about it from people I knew. THEN…I went to the library to try and find out more. It is IMPERATIVE that we don’t allow books to be banned from our children. Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it.
The fact that my tax dollars go to ISRAEL to build them some kind of nuclear umbrella of some sort sickens me. The Israeli government is guilty of crimes against humanity. And the US turns a blind eye.
THIS! Every word. Thanks, Tamara. You healed a wound.
This is IT. Thank you for this. I’m going to use the same logic in a group I’m getting crucified in for saying that Whoopi was wrong on this one. At present when people think of race, they’re primarily thinking of “color or hue,” but back then (and NOW), Jews are considered a race of people. They are a race of people who primarily share a common religion. It’s not rocket science and though I love Whoopi, she should have known better.
So what color do you ascribe to Jews? Are youost Jews are members of the Caucasian race. One can be biracial, but that means you have parents of two different races. If your parents are members of the same race you cannot be a member of two different races. Do you see the weirdness to which this kind of thinking leads?
PREACH TT!!!
Sorry, must disagree based on science, & agree with Whoopi. (BTW Whoopi is one of the most intelligent persons in show business, as anyone who ever saw her late night interview show some 3 decades ago would have to agree.). Here’s what I wrote on FB when it happended: “Scientifically, Whoopi Goldberg was correct. Just because Hitler murdered 6 million Jews (among others) besed on his misinformed opinion that they were a “race” does not make Jews members of a race. In science, raciation is what happens when a biologically isolated group develops specific observable significant differences from others within the same species. It is the initial step, if the isolation continues long enough, for speciation, the development of a separate species, to occur. Jews follow a religion, & members may belong to different races; they may have completely different ethnic backgrounds. The most important thing to know in this recent kerfuffle on “The View” is that Whoopi was absolutely right & Hitler was wrong. Jews are not on the way in geological time to becoming a separate species, or even race. There’s not enough geographic isolation, & too much intermarriage (etc.) for this to occur. So get off your high horses all you talking heads & defensive institutions–you should really know better than to follow Adolf’s mythical racial notions. Your are WRONG & science, once again, is correct. You go, Whoopi!” Many tribe & ethnic groups throughout human times have seen themselves as “chosen people,” but this does not make any of them as a members of a distinct race. Race is biological, & it is much more than a few commonalities scattered within a gene pool, more than shared ethnicity. It is not cultural. It is not religion. Hitler was wrong about Judaism (which is defined as an ethnic religion based on monotheism) being a race, & so are the critics of Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopi is really the kid who has declared the emperor is not wearing any clothes, & our current wokeness level is wonky.
The scientific definition doesn’t matter in this context. The Holocaust was about race because the Nazis considered their agenda to be based on race. They perpetrated the Holocaust, based on their views on race–and therefore, the Holocaust was about race.
And Whoopi knows this.
Literally everyone knows this. I don’t see why it is even a debate.
I hate to disagree with you TT BUT lots of people do NOT know this.
Yeah, science does matter, & making up definitions is exactly what Hitler did. Try to not be like Hitler. It leads to dangerous thoughts & deeds. At the very least it is fuzzy thinking, e.g., “human race”. We humans (homo sapiens) are a species, not a race. Remember, the first rule of science is to define our terms. Our thoughts & discussions are more clear that way instead of the circular logic expressed in your statement above.
The Holocaust was about killing races Hitler and his ilk believed were inferior. It is pointless to bring science into it. He had his own ‘science’ confirm his beliefs. And Whoopie, if she’s so intligent, should have known this. She sounded ignorant.
Race is actually an incredibly broad term that can be (and is) defined and understood differently depending on the place, the time and the context. In the US, we very much define race by skin color (because it fulfilled a purpose of protecting the interests of maintaining a white power structure) – however the concept of racial difference can rest on any number of factors. Largely, race exists to create differentiation and distinctions amongst human groups – the definition is made by people rather than any sort of science and consequently can have any number of absurd variations.
Hitler very much leveraged the notion of a “superior Aryan race” to “other” specific communities during the Holocaust, including and most notably – the Jewish people. This treatment of Jewish people in Europe and social othering has a long history that spans centuries, and it was an intentional manipulation tactic.
We have been “othering” people as a way of building consensus and power since the beginning of time and have found lots of creative ways to do it, under the guise of race. Skin color is simply one iteration.
I think the nuance in this that Whoopi, as a Black woman in the US, has lived under the oppression of the definition of race in the US context, is an important one. To me the move by CBS basically says “hey we deeply imposed this concept of race upon you in the US to perpetuate white supremacy but now we are incredibly angry that you are not considering the notion that race is defined differently elsewhere – how dare you be inaccurate about something that, by our definition, has been deeply impactful upon your life”.
I also think this is a great teaching moment because it demonstrates just how shallow the definition of race actually is and how it has been used to manipulate. And no I am not one of those “we are all THE HUMAN RACE/I don’t see color” people – I just think that the people who hold the power to define race love it until the moment that it is used by the groups for whom it was being used to “other” as a means of building community and thereby, power.
Actually the definition of race is not that broad.
“Race
noun
noun: race; plural noun: races
each of the major groupings into which humankind is considered (in various theories or contexts) to be divided on the basis of physical characteristics or shared ancestry.”
“people of all races, colors, and creeds”
And to insinuate that “we are all THE HUMAN RACE/I don’t see color” is the same thing is misguided. These are two different things.
It is your prerogative to think that this definition doesn’t allow for broad interpretations around race. I disagree. How “shared ancestry” alone is understood has changed considerably over time.
And yes, I understand these are two different sentences – they are also often used by the same people who want to erase the impact of systemic racism and absolve themselves of any social responsibility around it.
My prerogative? So dictionaries are irrelevant then, huh?
On the contrary, I believe that we are all human and should treat either as such, so if your last point was in any way assumptive about me…Then you’ve misunderstood everything I’ve written here.
Yes. Everything that has a definition attached to it is extremely specific and immediately understood in the same capacity by all. That is why the way that race has been used to describe people of a similar background hasn’t changed for 2000 years except… wait… it has.
I realize this may be hard for you to wrap your head around but my comment was in fact not about you. The little I read of what you posted on this thread didn’t inspire me to go looking for more of your “deep thoughts”.
I realize you think you did something here but… keep reaching.
@bostongal you responded to what I wrote not the other way around…Clearly it “did something” to you.
No “deep thoughts” exercised just a simple case being made with facts, but I can see why you had such difficulty understanding my point(s).
Jewish people are Semitics. Semitism is a race hence the term anti-Semite. Hitler said Semitics were an inferior race.
An ethnic group does not constitute a race.
Semite does not equate to race. Google is your friend.
I so agree with evveryone who has responded to you. It does NOT matter the definition of “race”. The Nazis saw Jews as an “inferior race” and ALL of their actions reflected that. Jesus, do you not understand that??
OMG. I am late to this disussion but have to add my two cents. Race as we look at it in 2022 is very different from the 1940s or way back in history. My ancestory is Irish, and they were conquered by England in the 1200s and divided using reglion and the idea that the Irish were barbians and 2nd class people. You can still see this in commentsi n England about Gingers or Catholics. The were in modern day terms “the blacks of Europe”. When Irish started immigrating to the US, the concept of “whiteness” was happening. Because of slavery in the US and western European countries. So the Irish who started coming here were now considered superior to slaves, free Blacks, Native Americans, Latinos, etc. So they got a leg up. (Sorry former history teacher here.) So when some groups are considered inferior it is not always about color. MY grandparents who came to the US in the teens and 1920s were still looked at with suspicison. But of course by the time I was born, we were looked at as all American, or sometimes the face of Ireland. Lots of pride and no racism.
The Jews were looked at as inferior for millenia, and even Christians treated them that way.
Sorry this was so long!
For me it’s her sanctimonious presentation .
Have an opinion be wrong discuss learn and grow.
Stop lecturing and dominating the discussion stop
The self righteousness is upsetting. I like passion but I don’t like acting like you are the only one who understands things
Braincells everywhere are rejoicing!
I was kind of SHOCKED by Whoopi’s behavior toward the other women, all of them were disagreeing with what she was saying and she would not let them speak. And she’s the moderator! There are also POC at the table who were trying to explain to her why it was racism. The next day, a “Jewish expert” for lack of a better term had to come on as the spokesperson for the Jewish community and explain why it was racism.
Exactly
For me that’s the real
Issue
She did the same thing on Colbert
No she did NOT do the same thing on Colbert. I did not know about this as I did not see the View nor the news until 11:00 p.m. the night it happened. Whe she was on Colbert she explained what she said, that there was a controversy(my words) and she now sees what people meant who wrote he. She the apologized and let people know she heard them.
This is nothing new. We have seen this from her many times and she gets worse and worse as the years go by. Many times it doesn’t get attention because it hasn’t been so offensive (to put it lightly) as this, but still, the behavior is the same. She thinks she knows everything, and I personally don’t find her intelligent at all. Her and this worsening behavior is the reason I stopped watching the View. I used to DVR it every day but stopped and haven’t watched a single episode for a couple of years now. When you think about the old Whoopi, from 20 years ago, before she was on the View, it’s like a completely different person. She used to seem genuinely kind and cool and much more open minded, etc. To me, she now comes across as a miserable person and I can’t stomach her vibe.
Good point Kate! Well said.
Thank you MzzMojo
For what it’s worth my 23 and me
My DNA
shows 100% Ashkenazi Jew
So there’s that
A collection of genetic sequences/clusters due to lots of intermarriage. A certain cluster or group of Eastern Europeans make up Ashkenazim.
My parents were married in 1951. My mother was Protestant and my father, Jewish. At that time only 2% of Jews married outside their religion. Before there mir marriage my mother was told by a friend of her family, “Sol is a good Jew, a white Jew. He’s not a money-grubbing, money-hungry Jew, like the others.” This was six years after the facts of the Holocaust were revealed to the world. Don’t tell me it wasn’t about race.
Jewish people have often said that Jew is not a racial but a cultural and religious distinction. If then this said for years in this social media age.
She gave a very heartfelt apology on the show today. I absolutely don’t agree with her being suspended. It is very high school.
She also apologized on one of the late night programs last night.
Your right, she should have been fired
Why not! People lose their jobs for less.
I agree she apologized. But I’m not sure she UNDERSTOOD. We could’ve used this as a teachable moment to enlighten the ignorant.
The day after they had on a man from the ADL who discussed the issue.
If you re watch what she said, she was adamant about it. Joy even questioned her a little and said, so what was it about and she doubled down and insisted it wasn’t about race. I like Whoopi, but I think it’s time for her to go. Plus, she can’t read the damn teleprompter and stumbles over what she’s saying all the time and it drives me crazy.
She explained herself very well on late night tv last night, and frankly I don’t think she was wrong. She said the Holocaust was about man’s inhumanity toward man and that accurate. Jews were marked as Jews because as white men and women they weren’t easily discernable from other Germans/Austrians/Poles etc.
I don’t get the hoopla over her statements, but whatever.
I agree.
“Hitler promoted a racial ideology that identified Whites (he called “Aryans”) as superior and everyone else as inferior. Since Jews in Europe were considered White he classified them as a different race – a race of people that he said was not only inferior but ‘dangerous’ and needed to be destroyed. Making them a race in Nazi ideology served to justify their mistreatment.”
ETA: Some would argue that it is offensive to call Jewish people a “race” because of the background and ideology of the holocaust itself.
At some point you seem to keep losing the message and want to argue that Jews are not a race. We all know that. What you keep missing is the attitudes of Hitler and his sychophants who DEEMED JEWS TO BE AN INFERIOR RACE. Just because they were too stupid to know what we know now about the races doesn’t mean it wasn’t a race based INTENTION. Again, you can’t apply 2022 science to 1941.
Not arguing. Simply making a point. Am fully aware of the argument being made and am discussing the details as I understand them. Hitler knew exactly he was doing…He deemed the Jewish population around him a “race” to “other” them. It was a tactic. A gross tactic but nonetheless it was how he was able to dehumanize and kill so many Jewish people. It was part of the ideology.
The idea of race, then and now, is based on pseudo-scientific theories from the 18th century suggesting that humans descended from biologically differing groups. Today, science confirms that there is no such thing as the ‘race’ classification. Humans are basically the same on the inside with endless differentiation on the outside. It is a made up category. If we think of race as skin color mainly, Jews can be found among all so-called races and share the same wide variety of physical characteristics. Jews, who are associated by religion and culture, come in all colors and nationalities.
And yes. I complete agree: “you can’t apply 2022 science to 1941”—that is why I believe what Whoopie said was not meant to be offensive. She was discussing her understanding of “racism” vice what the term was misconstrued to be by Hitler.
The only problem is she did not let anyone give their opinion. That’s a discussion.
Thank you, Tamara. Yes. Yes. Yes
Oh Gosh. Now right wing media is going to use the hell out of this to push nonsense.
Also, we need to continue to discuss The Holocaust. I am 39, and everything I learned about that period in history, I learned by reading books in my local library because I wanted to know more. I took AP US history in high school and we barely got through the American Revolution.
One of the problems with being a military brat or in my case a Lockheed kid is that you change schools a lot and I went to three different first grades and three different fifth grades and two different sixth grades. So sometimes you learn the same thing three times and other things you miss all together. Fun fact, the first time I learned anything about the Jewish religion was when I moved to a Chicago suburb. I REALLY REALLY wanted to be Jewish because those kids had extra holidays. My southern Baptist mama was NOT AMUSED when I told her I was going to be Jewish now. 🙂 Sadly, apparently, since the lineage was not there and I had already been baptized in the Mediterrean sea, I was SOOL.
Sounds like the way my Jewish mother reacted when l told her l was joining my Baptist friend at Sunday school because they got to sing, in English. I came home singing This Little Light of Mine and Jesus Loves Me. 😁😱
When I was in Baptist Youth Group we went to Lake Placid on a mission group. WTF? We had to knock on doors like Mormon missionaries to invite kids to our day camp. Everyone we knocked on doors to was Catholic. And we were all like FREE DAYCARE! As we indoctrinate your children.
Lake Placid, NY? My senior ski trip was there, we got to see the old Olympic arenas (and drink and party), I have great memories of there.
Whoppi is over 60, and to be on a National forum and say the the murder of 60% of Europe’s Jewish population at the time (https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/gallery/jewish-population-of-europe ) was not race related is ignorant in so many way.
The link you provided discusses the European population of Jews from several different European countries—connected by borders and that European Jews lived in EU for over 2000 years…Again, how is it about race? It’s about religion. They were targeted for their religion. Because racially, they were white/European and the same “race” as Hitler himself.
I really thought you had it when you quoted this.
“Hitler promoted a racial ideology that identified Whites (he called “Aryans”) as superior and everyone else as inferior. Since Jews in Europe were considered White he classified them as a different race – a race of people that he said was not only inferior but ‘dangerous’ and needed to be destroyed. Making them a race in Nazi ideology served to justify their mistreatment.”
I quoted it because of the overall point I was making: Judaism is not a race and Hitler’s propaganda machine labeling them as such doesn’t make it a fact.
Judaism is a religion and yes there is culture attached to it (language, customs, food, music) but that still doesn’t equate to “race.”
Are you Jewish?
If not please stop telling us who we are and what we are. It’s our right to define our existence. It certainly isn’t yours.
And to your point about Jews being white. Some of us may look white. But to a racist we aren’t white. And for the purposes of this discussion, it’s the racist’s view that counts.
Yes I am Jewish, on my mother’s side. Regardless of my background, I’m not telling you how to define your existence. You ca “define your existence” however you like and I wouldn’t/couldn’t take that away from you. Certainly, your religion and beliefs are stronger than that.
But as a Jew, you should know that Judaism is not a race. Admitting this does not take away or erase the atrocity or the holocaust. Jeez.
Hitler’s gross ideology is also yet another reason why you should not repeat his psychotic ideology by pushing that false narrative.
The network has to send a message. Woopi appologized, so there is nothing else she xab do. She never said the Holocaust did not exist. She did say it was wrong! I think it is ironic that Whoopi, the black host, is suspended during Black History month!
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I honestly am baffled at how one can validate Whoopi’s opinion. Diminishing the holocaust to it’s only white against white is flat out ignorant. Cancel culture was discussed in previous threads. It applies here she should be canceled.
Remember when she said that the rape of a minor, committed by movie director Roman Polanski wasn’t “rape, rape”?
Here’s the quote: I know it wasn’t rape-rape. It was something else but I don’t believe it was rape-rape.
WTF is that?
Whoopi is not perfect, no one is. I’m glad she apologized for her behavior.
I thought she should have been fired for that comment. It was truly disgusting.
Thank youTT for your many eloquent explanations. You are 100% correct. We cant look at Hitlers propaganda and genocide through our 2022 lens. Hitler said they were an inferior RACE!!!
ABC suspension of Whoopi was fair, in my humble opinion. I hope she takes this time to go to Germany, go to a camp, Get educated Whoopi.
I am sick to death of Whoopie. Who died and made her queen of the world anyway? (You in danger girl.)
I agree. I cannot stand her or Joy. Whoopie is a racist and has always been a racist. Joy is just plain ignorant.
I’m glad she’s being suspended. My Jewish friends consider being Jewish a race. Whether Whoopi agrees with it or not there are Jewish who believes it’s a race. But despite that her comments it’s still are ignorant. Jews were killed – doesn’t matter what skin color you are. It is still horrific what Jews had to endure. Don’t belittle the victims of the Holocaust Bc of their skin color. That’s insane.
This needs to stop. Where is the compassion for all? It’s not only one color one race that receives all the hate. This is going too far and im worried that in the future everyone won’t matter if they don’t have dark skin. I mean I’m Asian and I know I already don’t matter with the current times. Despite two people within a month trying to attack me during the recent BLM movement Bc I don’t matter. I was at a park and a dark skin person rushed towards me with a garden tool yelling chinese pretend words at me as I’m with my baby girl. No one did anything. I had to run away with my baby. another dark skin female told me to give me my purse at a Joanns fabric store and then laughed at me. I cried Bc I no longer feel like I can stand up for myself Bc I don’t matter. If I do stand up I’m racist. I’m worried about the future.
It’s not right that people of a certain color of skin can dictate other races/religion and compare tragedies. This shouldn’t be what the movement is about at all. Even within their own culture some don’t think a lighter skin endures the same pain as a darker skin! I have lighter skin friends who feel like they have to succumb to darker skins Bc they aren’t dark enough. When will this stop? It’s not just one type that receives pain. Let’s teach compassion for all before it’s too too late.
I have been over the View and Whoopi for a longtime
Whoopi and Joy can both go away.
Cancel it.
I find it interesting that Whoopi can say that it’s not about race but when any other color say it’s not about race they are canceled immediately.
I hope now people understands that just because you’re black doesn’t mean you can dictate what other people consider a race and we shouldn’t be judging anyone’s sorrow by the color of their skin whether it’s white, tan, brown, black and etc. don’t compare sorrows, one sorrow isn’t worse than the other especially in this case.
Her words have already impacted ignorant people. I’m scared of the impact she has already caused.
I’ve always enjoyed Whoopi however, that changed somewhat ever since she shut down Rosie on The View each time she wanted to bring up the Bill Cosby sexual assault allegations. Whoopi treated her very rudely. Rosie ended up leaving the show, Cosby was convicted and Whoopi never publicly apologized to Rosie.
Having said that, I don’t think Whoopi’s intention was to hurt or offend anyone. I think it was a good move to suspend her but I don’t think she should be fired.
This is a BIG topic in my neck of the woods, with McMinnville banning the book Maus, To Kill A Mockingbird, and other nefarious books. BANNING BOOKS!!! Jesus take the wheel. My father was at the liberation of a camp and always drilled into us that “Don’t think it couldn’t happen again.” Other than that, that’s pretty much all he would tell us. They did a gofundme to buy books for students there and so far have raised over 100k of their goal of 20k. And I just paid dear old Warren County $260 for my very first speeding ticket couple days ago. So I double hate them. Saying this, Whoopie should not be fired for this. I mean, WTF? Question her, debate with her, argue with her but don’t Silence her! That’s ridiculous.
Yes, I agree that Whoopie should not be fired over this. The network confronting her about her comments seems fair. I didn’t hear her apology and some on this post think the apology was inadequate and some think it was adequate. Her commentary obviously offended a lot of people and the way she bulldozed over the other panelists was problematic. Hopefully it was a learning experience for her and the viewers. I know I have learned something about the definition of race and how it has been used historically and today.
Semite is a race. That’s why it’s called anti-semitism. The Nazis literally believed Semites were an inferior race.
Yes to this! How can we not understand that in 2022?
I don’t know.
TT – can you please update your post to reflect a race Hitler was against (amongst many) was semantic, which coincides with Jewish individuals?
I think most don’t bother to think what anti-semitism means. They throw around the word. However it means something and it’s describing an entire race of people. The religion is secondary, the race is what unites and bonds us.
“Semitic” is a linguistic and cultural classification, denoting certain languages and in some contexts the literatures and civilizations expressed in those languages.
Egyptians are Semitic. Syrians (whether Jewish or not) are Semitic. Lebanese are Semitic (even though they are not Jewish) Palestinians are semitic. See my point? I have issues with the term “anti-semitism”. The correct term for discrimination against Jews, is: Anti-Jewish.
Do you mean to say that a Polish Jew, an Ethiopian Jew and an Iraqi Jew are the same race?
Religion is what connects us Jews.
Have to admit, I was surprised they suspended her.
Isn’t it possible she was suspended for insubordination?
I would imagine her bosses took her aside and told her to quiet down apologize etc
And she said sure okay and then went on Colbert and doubled down ?
Her personality is what got her suspended she thinks she’s right and doesn’t think the rules apply to her
I think the situation has been overblown. But, I’m not Jewish so I don’t feel like I know enough about the topic to have an opinion without saying something wrong. Her intent wasn’t to offend or be racist, but poorly articulated and wrong. Your former president and morons on Fox News can spew actual hate and get away with it for YEARS. Yet, one misstep results in a huge backlash for Whoppi. What a backwards, hypocritical world.
Totally agree!
Ugh who is wasting their time on this toxic show. If you have Sirius they sometimes play Whoopi’s standup on the comedy stations. No words . I don’t think Barbara wanted this when she started the show. I occasionally watched it back then.
What show are you watching because The View is far from toxic. The show falls under the news division of ABC and they are not afraid of calling out the BS coming from faux Fox News. Now that’s what I call a toxic show!
The only thing I hate about talk shows is that everybody talks over each other! I may be getting old but it’s hard to hear anyone’s point of view, even if they are differing. I would like to actually hear opposing views, not the shouting.
I miss Barbara Walters.
O.K. I’m going to go a WHOLE OTHER WAY on this. I could go into a long diatribe about that Whoopi was right in a sense because there are 3 major races, Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid and Jews are part of the Caucasoid race, etc…but many of you have already broken this down very eloquently, so there’s no need for me to be redundant. THIS is why I personally feel she’s wrong. Whoopi has been in Hollywood for a very long time and is an EGOT winner. There’s NO WAY she didn’t know what a sensitive subject this is in America period, but ESPECIALLY in the entertainment business. She can feel how she feels, but she should have known better than to just say that ‘ish on national TV. IMHO that was just stupid or maybe it was just hubris, but in any case, she should have kept THAT opinion to herself. Yeah, it’s a free world and we have a right to say what we want but that doesn’t mean that what we say will have no consequences. I’m sure she’s witnessed the fallout of others saying things about the holocaust that are suspect. I don’t know why she thought she was different. She’s not. Now she knows she isn’t.
She needs to be fired period!
Whoopie needs to be fired.
I agree.
she cannot use youth or not understanding a an excuse.
One thing I’d like to say:
Please don’t tell Jews who they are. I would never dream of telling a Black person who they are, and if I did you would be rightfully offended. Please don’t do this to us.
We come in all kinds of colors from all kinds of places but we’re linked by far more than religion. Think of us as a nation with national characteristics. Unless someone wants to go through a loooong hard conversion period the only way to be a Jew is to have a certifiably Jewish mother. And, yes, there are ways of certifying that via our parents’ Jewish marriage certificate.
We are who we are. We’ve dealt with discrimination based on who we are for millennia. And no racist on earth thinks we’re ‘white’.
That’s for this comment Izzie. We’re all learning a lot here.
You are right!
I agree with this.
My father’s family is Jewish. Not religious. Of Ashkenazi descent. His younger sister and 2 cousins had a genetic disorder that’s pretty rare and only found in people of Ashkenazi descent.
It was…traumatizing for the family. In the 50s-80s, when they dealt with it, there weren’t really facilities or a community of support. My aunt was a lovely, smart, sweet woman. And the illness was something like a mixture of muscular dystrophy and cystic fibrosis.
I remember part of my childhood as visiting her in a series of nursing homes and facilities where she was often the youngest resident.
…Some time later, after she died, I developed a rather morbid curiosity with the Holocaust. The revelation that something that didn’t matter to my atheist father, but killed people in my family, because of genetics..and ostensibly would have gotten me killed – for no fucking good reason, well that resonated.
What is Jewish? It’s confusing. But it’s part of me.
While I agree that Whoopi should be called out, I feel for her and I am not a big fan of hers. I know that Jews, during Hitler’s reign of terror, were required to sew on their clothes, as badges, the yellow star of David to distinguish them and mark them as Jews.
Had they not been forced to do so, they would not have stood out in a crowd as black people would have been. Perhaps, and I don’t know what the heck she was thinking, this is what she was focused on.
I saw Whoopi perform comedy at the Apollo theater in Harlem over 20 years ago. She was brilliant and it was a magical evening that included me sitting not 6 feet from Sydney Poitier, who was sitting next to Star Jones.
That said (and only said because those memory are so special to me), she lost the plot along time ago. She supported Roman Polanski, Bill Cosby and I remember clearly when she dated Ted Danson she accompanied him to an event where he wore black face.
Further, Whoopi was born Caryn Johnson. She’s claimed publicly in the past that she believes that not only is she Jewish (non-practicing), but that Goldberg is an ancestral name in her family. Other quotes attributed to Whoopi indicate Goldberg was chosen by her and her mother, who believed a Jewish name would further her career. In 2006 when Henry Louis Gates researched her ancestry there was zero Jewish lineage.
I don’t see how any of this makes her any different than a Rachel Dolezal. In my opinion it was all a career building fabrication that she skated on all these years, because she’s a Black woman with a funny name and a rather unfortunate face.
I have no skin in this game and no opinion about whether she should be fired, but I will say that my husband of 30 years — a very Jewy, Jew from New York, believed her to be an anti-Semite for at least a decade before his death 6 years ago…
She should have been fired. I find her appalling.
A point that really lends itself to the Holocaust being about race – a Jew couldn’t convert to save themselves. It wasn’t about the religion, but the Jewish race. Nazis went to synagogues for records of Jewish members, and took those of Jewish ancestry even if their parents had intermarried and were no longer practicing Jews. These “mixed race” descendants undermined aryan purity.