I thought we might need a new thread for discussion. Just when I think the prosecution makes some good progress, they go right back to their repetitive mind-numbing behaviors. They began on day one introducing a lot of significant footage. Then they called everyone they could possible find who was a bystander and dragged them in to basically all repeat the same situation while getting in all of the footage. It was very detailed. Where did you park your car? Where were you going. So you were planning to turn left? Can you point yourself out in this photo? The first three or four were great for the prosecution. But, it went on and on with no new information relative to guilt.
Now today, after an unprecedented event yesterday where the Chief of Police testified against Chauvin stating uncategorically that Chauvin’s use of force was “unnecessary” and against the training all officers receive. The prosecution is apparently going to drag in every person who has anything to do at all with training officers again to reiterate what the Chief of Police drove home so well yesterday.
I am someone who is super into the law and trials and juries. I watch gavel to gavel trials all the time. And I am bored out of my mind. Because they keep bringing in new witnesses to say the same damn thing over and over. But using more and more words. I keep telling people on Twitter that the prosecution is putting the jury to sleep. Some are acting like I am on the wrong side. No. I’m just saying the prosecution is putting us all to sleep.
Even this morning the Judge had some sort of off camera meeting and the pool reporter said it had to do with the prosecution bringing in eleventy billion witnesses to say the same thing. The testimony of the police chief was POWERFUL. And now they are putting me to sleep again. It is important for the prosecution not to lose the jury! They are going to make them weary of listening. At this rate it is going to take way more than four weeks and the Judge seems to share my concerns.
We need to get to the actual meat of the trial. It’s a simple question, if Derek Chauvin had not kneeled on George Floyd for almost ten minutes, who he have died? Before that some lead up questions could be is it normal to drag people off to jail for a SUSPECTED fail twenty dollar bill used to buy a pack of cigarettes? Were the bystanders pleading for his life “an angry mob” that scared Derek Chauvin? We are supposed to be half way through by Friday and I don’t think the prosecution is focused on the important things.
What are your thoughts?
At least this guy is showing evidence that Derek Chauvin got the training about not sitting on someone’s neck and killing them. But it is like PULLING TEETH to get there. Apparently we are all about to get the entire in-service training ourselves in a power point.
Yes, you nailed exactly what is going on in the trial.
I want to pay attention, but the prosecution is putting us all to sleep. I would literally fall asleep in the jury box. I had to switch to The View and they are talking about the case there too.
Remember the Jodi Arias case? Juan came out like a wrecking ball. The defense attorneys were great. The witnesses were compelling. This is like watching wallpaper peel. What is this day six and all we have is eleventy billion bystanders telling us the same story and crying on the stand? WHY PUT A NINE YEAR OLD THROUGH THAT. There were dozens of witnesses? All we needed regarding training is the testimony form the POLICE CHIEF and MAYBE the instructor to testify the murderer too the class.
You have to keep the jury engaged for eight hours. Telling them the same thing fifty time is not helping say it in your opening, reinforce it with your witnesses, JAM IT HOME in your closing.
Are all Minnesota lawyers this bland?
Court TV trials ARE for napping TT! I had a bad day last week after a lovely afternoon siesta. I nap religiously from 1-1:30 and you are correct, it worked for me.
The problem was I woke-up sobbing with a wet-face, wet-pillow, and just sorrow.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain how the protocol of every cashier in the US was not followed there. “Funny money’ is always a management issue and then management knows what to do and it is NOT calling the police. The line of command there is -call bank, bank contacts Secret Service.
I lived in Minneapolis. Counterfeit money is rampant up there. I have had the cops called on me and I didn’t know I had a fake $20 bill. I got it from the AtM. They spent more time trying to figure where I got it from. I started using only bank ATM’s, not ones in stores after that. It was embarrassing.
And the defense just had the training guy review photos where Chauvin was on Floyd’s knee between shoulder blades and on his shoulder. Sigh. The guy is saying that the knee holds based on the photos are in compliance with the training. The defense is chewing up this witness.
I keep wanting to fix the witness’s yellow lanyard. Is it just me?
The defense is getting all the answers he is trying to get. The prosecution is going to have to follow-up with this guy.
Gee, it is lunch break and the CourtTV commenters said the exact same thing. The prosecution is over trying the case and should have stopped after the police chief was such a good witness for the prosecution. Because their own fourth or fifth witness THAT WAS UNNECESSARY came off better for the defense.
It’s almost like I’ve watched a lot of trials. The excessive number of witnesses to prove the same point is unnecessary, and opens the prosecution up to just this very situation. One of the witnesses helped the defense.
Yea I do not understand the prosecution keeping on and on as nauseam. The police chief’s testimony was perfect.
I haven’t been able to watch but am following in the news. It seems that this prosecution really sucks rocks…
Thanks for the update, Tamara. I’m stuck at the office all day so I haven’t gotten to watch the trial. I think he’s hoping the repetition will work in his favor. If you have enough people saying the same thing over and over, not all of them can be wrong. I don’t think he considered the boredom factor. Our attention spans get shorter & shorter every year so he’s probably losing some of the jurors he’s counting on. I saw it first hand while serving as jury foreman on a Federal Grand Jury that met once a week for 16 months. As the AUSA’s were questioning witnesses for us to determine if there was enough evidence to indict someone, we had quite a few AUSAs who did that. I could literally watch the jury panel nodding off as witnesses were questioned. There were a few times where I had to ask the attorney & witness to step out of the room so I could wake up the jury members. I just hope things don’t backfire for this prosecutor and that the jury is able to find Chauvin guilty.
I can see the impact of having people from 9 to 61 (literally) explaining the horror of the murder. But the prosecution was like, what you brought you to the neighborhood? Were you going north or west? Where did you park the car? Would a map help you remember. Roll some video, does this refresh your memory? Why did you get out of the car? Can you identify yourself in the photo? What was the weather like that day? How many bystanders would you say were there? How often do you shop at Cup Foods? Then they would roll on or more angles of the murder and everyone would very upset and cry. This happened at least ten times. It went on ALL DAY. The entire WORLD saw him murdered.
Read where there could be enhanced punishment if crime committed in the presence of minors, which might explain some of the repetitive eye witness testimony.
Can understand SOME of the intense questioning. Think they were trying to show how outlandish to the casual observer these actions were, and how this was a neighborhood convenience store, not a place where folks came to hang for illicit activity, which would put cops on edge and get their guard up.
Prosecution definitely needs to tighten up their questioning and edit the number of witnesses called. They always have the rebuttal, if needed,
I’ve only seen clips of the trial, but I am a native of Minnesota, so I wonder if this could be a cultural thing. Whenever I tell a story, I feel like I have to give the backstory of every little detail leading up to it. I’m learning now to edit, but my mom and grandma did the same thing. My grandma describing a shopping trip in the 80;s: “So, I was driving downtown to Dayton’s, because they were having a sale. Remember cousin Linda got that great deal on a skirt for $9,98 3 months ago? Well, I was hoping to find something like that in plaid, but anyways, on the way there I had to take a detour on Cedar street because of construction,,,,, and so on all about finding her deal and the interaction with the salesperson, etc…
I do the same thing! But the defense took less than ten minutes today to get in that the knee on the neck actually is a tactical move. The prosecution took three hours trying to prove it was not taught.
Somehow I like your grandma:) Have suffered from the same natural tendency, aka “blow-by-blow” description, .aka “God is in the details.”
Got over it when constant fatigue prevented me from having the energy to go into so much detail. I realized it’s more like a habit than can actually be broken.
I agree. I think they’re trying to drill it in that nobody in law enforcement would support Chauvin’s actions but it’s definitely getting redundant. I’m guessing they’re doing this in anticipation of the defense claiming Chauvin was scared based on Floyd’s size and will try to justify it that way but there’s no justification. I hope they move it along soon
I agree wholeheartedly with you! If the CHIEF OF POLICE says that THIS WAS WRONG and caused death and was not a trained or appropriate way to restrain someone, then as a juror that would be the most powerful testimony I could hear. I agree…too much testimony regarding the exact same point is cumbersome. I wish that the Chief of Police had been the final witness regarding this part of testimony.
Lunch break until 2:30 ET but they never come back on time so more like 2:45 ET.
The entire defense may rest on the extenuating circumstances under which Chauvin used the knee on the defendants neck – as a choke hold. The prosecution tries to narrowly focus on what Chauvin did to cause Holders death. The defense widens the scope to include possible outside (crowd control, defendants drug use, his physical size, EMS waiting period) excuses for the defendant’s extensive use of force.
The latter makes it critical for the prosecution to have witnesses who address all possible circumstances Chauvin faced and how the training protocols eliminate the need for his excessive use of force – whatever perceived issues he faced. Also Chauvin is accused of multiple aggresses that each need to be dealt with. So bringing in different experts to make their case seems merited.
There’s also the unknown of possible juror witness bias. So the prosecution is bringing in witnesses who may or may not have an impact on specific jurors. The trial is a show but within that is a set of objectives that first have to be met. The prosecution has a duty to answer the question was this a set of circumstances under which Chauvin knowingly caused unnecessary harm that led to Holders death. If they can prove any reasonable police training expert would disagree with Chauvin’s actions, that he had access to this training and chose to ignore it that goes a long way to convince various jurors.
You don’t say.
You are not actually watching the whole trial are you?
I’m not a professional trial watcher like some. I understand the need to get to the point, like you are saying. But I am able to watch and focus on what is important. It’s not so distracting that I’m losing the point. Do you think no one is paying attention because they wander from time to time?
I see various cops who are uncomfortable testifying against another cop. Some more than others. The more who tell us Chauvin used the wrong technique the better. You think one cop is all they need to testify against another cop? I disagree.
I never said one cop was enough. The CHIEF should be enough. And so far almost everyone one after that has been more helpful to the defense. One so much so that the defense subpoenaed her today to return and testify on THEIR SIDE.
So disagree all you’d like but the facts are that the prosecution is way overtrying this case. And boring the shit out of the jury at the same time. I said this about the bystanders, then the Chief seemed to get the prosecution’s case back on track. Then they bobbled again today. THE JUDGE even tried to see this coming and had discussion about redundancy of witnesses and ask if they were necessary. And the prosecution didn’t take the hint. They better have something big coming in the four or so days they have left to prove INTENT and CAUSE OF DEATH.
Prosecution is horrible. Slower than molasses in January and walking all the way around the block to get next door. . After a while the jury just zones out and checks out. Prove your point and move on.
Walking all the way around the block just to get to next door. THIS DESCRIBES IT PERFECTLY. It started to irk me With the 61 year old black male bystander. He asked him a thousand questions that were totally irrelevant.
The fact that it was so emotionally devastating for him to have to discuss should have made him get to the relevant facts faster. It was heartbreaking watching him testify.
I wonder if the prosecution is putting this many witnesses who were there to try to show that these mild-mannered folks are not some scary radical gang of thugs who would scare a seasoned cop. People do get NUMB to things after a while. It could hurt the case. Maybe they will come in for a kill at the end!
That’s a really good theory, Nanette… So really, I guess it’s a gamble for the prosecution (if they’ve actually strategized this, which is questionable). Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the group gathered around were not exceptionally threatening, OR, bore the jury so much that they get pissed and subconsciously start to favor the defense. Hmmm.
The prosecution has now fumbled two witnesses in a row. The one that just finished testifying is now being called as a witness for the defense. This is not going well.
If you don’t like the cows in this pasture maybe you should find another
Someone was moved to the WLS. 🙂
Wise decision
Can’t we all have different views and express them? I think the differences are fascinating. Only wish I had the free time during the day to actually watch the trial though…
I think having different opinions and views is necessary for a well rounded discussion but name calling and verbal bullying is not. My comment probably made more sense before the nasty one was sent to WLS
Gotcha.
We can all have different opinions, but we cannot have different facts. I don’t know what news you are watching, but they only watch the snippets they are sent. The Court TV reporters are all watching it live and giving up to the minute opinions. I don’t think anyone here wants Chauvin to get off.
I’m just explaining the mistakes that the prosecution is making. The attorneys for the prosecution are not doing a great job. IN MY OPINION. And all the defense needs is ONE HOLDOUT JUROR for a mistrial. THAT IS A FACT.
My opinion in the beginning was that I expect a hung jury back on a weak job by the prosecution. Then the Police Chief testified and I thought everything was going to be fine. As soon as he was finished, the prosecution once again started overdoing the witnesses. Also the prosecutor didn’t seem to know how the witnesses were going to answer questions. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE. The defense attorney on cross was able to get answers that at the very least could plant seeds of doubts and one of the prosecution witness, at least one, agree with the defense on some fundamental points.
The prosecution doesn’t need to keep calling eye witnesses to the knee on the neck. Or experts on affixation. They need to prove intent and the cause of death. They have about four days to make the case for both mandatory factors. Just because I want a prosecution does mean I have to pretend things are going well. In fact it makes me angry that things are not going well enough. Fact : they must prove intent and cause of death. Fact: they haven’t presented any evidence meant to do that yet.
I would have thought the prosecution would have prepared the witnesses to the questions that would be asked. If they fumble this case the repercussions will be felt world-wide
I think you’re right TT, it is too much I found myself falling asleep. One question I don’t know why prosecutors aren’t asking to any of the law enforcement officers is ” If a bystander who says he’s not breathing would you have done anything different than Chauvin?”. Like maybe check for a pulse?
The people who witnessed this tragedy were pleading with Chauvin. Is the prosecution allowed to bring up Chauvin past indiscretions? After all its seems he was not a good cop.
I know in most kinds of cases “prior bad acts” are usually inadmissible. But I just an imaginary Internet attorney. 🙂
I wonder if the 2019 event where Mr. Floyd was stressed when the co ps approached him and he took a pill and ended up in the hospital will show that he had a fear of the police.
If the defense should mention, the door is open. It would be helpful to show a legit reaction to the police and obvious fear.
I believe that he was showing fear, not trying to pull a fake reaction. (As we have seen people do)
Im trying to watch it and have it on while I am working, it would be A LOT easier if my Dish connection would stay on in my office! I don’t have CourTV so I watch it on CSPAN. My tv went out today right after the prosecution witness was asked to come back for the defense.
I am actually kind of surprised at the prosecution, one would think they would be better prepared for a trial of this magnitude. Let’s hope they have a better day tomorrow and my tv works!!
Oh Tamara,
You are not alone on this.
Remember when Marcia Clark bore the heck out of the jury? Exactly.
Instead of asking stupid questions to the Chief there were so many missed opportunities to ask things like, “what did you do after you saw Derek Chauvin” Chief could have told how me fired them.
Now, did I miss it? Was it discussed? If so, I missed it.
This prosecution should never be allowed to have a big case televised. Again.
Thank you Tamara. They are boring me too.
If you missed it. I missed it too. Chief was there to condemn Chauvin’s actions and make it clear that is not proper protocol. Then the prosecutor brought someone else there, why who said they are train in the knee in the neck maneuver. This is why you don’t over-try the case with two many people you want to say the same thing. It increases the chances that someone will blurt out something stupid
Today was day seven of the prosecution’s case. The have four more days until the defense starts on Tuesday. They should have spent four days on the bystanders and the training stuff and seven days on the coroner’s report and proving intent.
Also, one of the coroners is a whack job. I forget his name at the moment, Baden maybe? He shows up at every major homicide case and IMO his report is always something different usually to give the defense an alternative COD because they are usually the ones who pay his huge fees. He always seems to have some sort of alternate explanation to the local coroner. I’m shocked Phaedra isn’t up there schmoozing the family like Crump and Sharpton do.
I too am bored with the prosecution. Are they tanking on purpose? Geezers
Please… someone …. anyone… WHYYYYY did the prosecution feel the need to call this “expert” witness?! He’s no help and it’s such an odd choice.
I slept all day again today, but I did roll over at 10 am and turn the TV to Court TV. I sleep on the couch so I can keep an eye on my dog. I wake up frequently so I caught up a bit but kept falling back to sleep.
I did see some of the end and the judge ONCE MORE WITH FEELING tell the prosecution that they do not need to call in everyone on the planet to discuss excessive force. I think I know which witness you are referring to who is some sort of “national expert.” The judge pointed out that while they have over a dozen attorney’s on the case, the defense guy is working pretty much on his own with some support members.
He didn’t listen to the judge, OR ME SCREAMING AT HIM THROUGH THE TV, when we tried to tell him he was calling too many bystanders. It wasn’t really the number of bystanders, I think it was fine to call them all IF HE DIDN’T SPEND AND HOUR ON EACH ONE. Put them all up there. Let them say how they were begging him to stop. Let the martial arts guy and the EMT explain they knew the neck compressions would kill him. Don’t have everyone show their driving route they took to Cup Food and all the other extraneous nonsense.
In my opinion, the judge knows that Minneapolis NEEDS a conviction. He knows that the prosecution is losing the jury. I’ve been pissing off people left and right here after pointing this out very early on. The judge appears to be admonishing the Prosecution and he is. But I have watched a lot of trials over the years and I’ve never seen a judge try so hard to help the prosecution get back on track.
Meanwhile every day that defense attorney seems to be working miracles for his client. AND IT ISN’T EVEN HIS TURN YET! Lord knows what else he has up his sleeve.
I continue to predict a hung jury. If I was on the jury, I’m not sure the prosecution has met their burden of proof. THE PROOF IS THERE. But he’s not delivering it well. On the other side, the defense attorney has an answer for everything. All it takes is one person.
Again. I WANT A VERDICT OF GUILTY. But, I’m trying to prepare y’all that right now, I’m not hopeful.
I woke up at one point and the Rodney King trial was on. Man that was horrific. They had audio of the cops LAUGHING about beating the shit of him. Even on the stand, the officers out right lied on he stand. There was video of them beating him and some of them said they never touched the guy. I had never seen that trial and it was awful. And one of the lawyers was on the show in real time talking about how the verdict was the right one.
Anyway, all of this is nerve wracking. Every person the prosecution puts on the stand, that one lone defense attorney manages to poke holes in their testimony. He gets them to agree with him. We may have to do this all over again. And if we do, surely the one of the eleven billion attorneys working for the state on this needs to take the lead. There have to been several of them that are frustrated they can’t just take over now.
What you’re saying about he defense attorney is a big concern I have too. His ability to get the witnesses to agree with him is sadly very effective at undoing some of what the prosecution has built. I recognized the technique he uses but had forgotten it. I believe it’s a sales technique called getting people up the Yes Ladder. He has mastered it.
Do I wish the prosecution had done a pretrial mock-up version with a stop watch to edit? You bet. I wish they had a team leader who reminded them to always get to the point and then repeat that key point two or three times for the jury. It’s not the witnesses or even the number of witnesses I have a problem with though, it is the lack of DIRECTION of those testifying.
Finally, with Dr. Tobin’s clear simple to understand testimony about Chauvin’s deliberate use of body and police gear weight against Floyd’s left side and neck – the defense looks worried. We’ll see how they handle him. Not over till it’s over.
This prosecutor’s questions to Dr. Tobin seem very focused. The answers are clear too and he is very engaging with the jury. HE HAS THEIR ATTENTION. Something that should have been happening all along.
You are right about the defense attorney. He seems a bit …uneasy today for the first time.
They have to leave no stone unturned. The jury can be bored if they want. When Chauvin takes the stand is what will decide the trial. They can’t all be the Arias trial or the OJ. This is not entertainment. I don’t GAF if they’re bored.
Well the prosecution should give a fuck if they are bored. The judge REALLY gives a fuck that they are not bored but burnt out. That’s why he admonished him today. And no, EVERY STONE does not need to be turned. A prosecution requires nothing but targeted, meaningful testimony.
And you can’t seriously believe that Chauvin will take the stand. C’mon man. They are already winning.
I was going to ask the same thing. Is he really going to take the stand? I just don’t see it. I was shocked he agreed to go to trial! So I guess it could happen? Didn’t watch or listen the past few days but the first few days were so compelling! I was in tears at work with the trial in in the background on my PC.
I feel Chauvin has to take the stand just for the fact the jury will want to hear what he says for his reasoning for why he did what he did. If it is not normal procedure, let’s catch him in a lie. If that occurs he’s a dirty lying cop who does dirty procedures.
If he doesn’t testify, the jurors will want to know what he is hiding. Nothing done wrong, then back up your actions.
You are correct, so far. I thought I had read he was to take the stand, but he can certainly choose not to.
Today the jury is taking notes. He may have to.
Your usually(well always) right TT, but I think it’s going to be a compromised verdict of 10 years.
To prevent a mis-trial.
I am very anxious for the defense and their case to see if the prosecution strikes on cross examination.
This first Dr Martin the prosecution called to prove cause of death, is kind of kooky, but super smart. He’s doing a great job at explaining exactly how George Floyd died. We have a new prosecutor today and he’s doing a great job. And this is one of THE most important points, the other being intent.
Dr Martin spoke all morning in excruciating detail and I am guessing the jury stuck with him because it was kind of fascinating. The prosecution finally used their unlimited resources for some great audio visuals. It was a good morning. Trial resumes at 2:30 ET. It’s a good day for the prosecution. I like today’s lawyer.
Okay Nelson, let’s see what you can do with this. He starts by questioning why he is here working for free when his rate is $500 an hour. Then he points out he had access to the autopsy and all of the files the prosecution has. Here he goes…..
Today is a big day in the trial. The CAUSE OF DEATH witnesses for the prosecution, specifically a forensic pathologist has just taken the stand is giving her credentials, etc. Should be an interesting day once we get through all the credentials.