UPDATE! For those of you that seem to think Trump is going to give Joe a presidential pardon (LOL) TMZ is reporting today that Teresa asked Trump for a character reference for Joe before his trial in an attempt to sway a judge to give him a lessor sentence (this is from BEFORE he was president) and the request was denied. I think the most hilarious part of this story is thinking that Donald Trump would be a good character reference. Donald Trump! And he has never even met Joe. The whole Trump fantasy has been my favorite part of this debacle.
Everyone seems all atwitter (see what I did there?) about the judge ruling today in Joe Giudice’s deportment proceedings. Well, everyone except for Tamara Tattles readers. Once again, nothing has changed. Joe has been in the process of deportment since he was sentenced for his felonies. Today, a judge just made it official that the deportment process was legal and able to go forward.
Judge John Ellington continued the lengthy process of deportation when he ruled that the current deportation is legal and binding in Pennsylvania’s York Immigration Court, “Based upon the law, I find you deportable and ineligible for any kind of relief. Mr. Giudice, no matter how this turns out, I wish you the best. I decided this case as a matter of law.” First of all, doesn’t he decide all cases as a matter of law? At any rate, that is the ROL quote that is the basis of today’s “big news.” He basically ruled that nothing that Joe’s attorneys have tried to stop the deportment has a legal basis to derail the the deportment and the process of deportation will continue.
This is not really news. the process for deportation is lengthy and this is simply another step in the process. Giudice’s attorney’s have never expected to be able to stop Joe’s deportation. In fact, their goal is to expedite the process. The first step in their plan was to have this deportment ruling done as soon as possible in an attempt to limit the amount of time he has to spend in an ICE detainment center. Everything is going on as scheduled.
Meanwhile, Teresa Giudice has been on some sort of month-long vacation lately spending time in Miami and Vegas with girlfriends. It seems like she is living her best life with no kids in sight since school started. Teresa’s Attorney continues to claim she is not divorcing Joe. She does have a new best friend who she met with several times last January who is a high powered divorce lawyer. But I’m sure that is just a coinkydink. Just like that time in New Jersey when she asked Luann what it was like going through a divorce while on reality TV.
There is one interesting thing that has happened lately. For my readers who are attorneys and my fellow alumni of The Google School of Law, I do see some glimmer of reprieve for Joe based on a Supreme Court decision from April of this year regarding the definition of “aggravated felony.” In that 5-4 decision, The US Supreme Court held that the term “aggravated felony” in the Immigration and Nationality Act as it relates to §16(b) of the federal criminal code, is “unconstitutionally void for vagueness” under the Fifth Amendment‘s Due Process Clause.
In simple terms, there is some legal question now about what crimes are considered aggravated felonies and are therefore deportable offenses. However, this ruling appears to apply to legal permanent residents and it is unclear even at this point if Joe did in fact have a legal resident status at the time his crimes were committed (or any other time.) I have seen no evidence that he did. Regardless, that could be a fun avenue for his attorneys to go down until Teresa decides to stop paying them.
Historical Posts on Joe Giudice’s Deportment Process
RELATED POSTS ON JOE’S DEPORTATION
If you are interested in the entire process of Joe’s deportation, the best place to start is last September when Joe lost the opportunity to participate in the alcohol program (RDAP) that would have shaved quite a bit of time off of his sentence. An ICE detainer was placed on Joe by Immigration in March of 2016.
From my post September 12, 2017:
The rest of the news all is the result of that retainer. Here is what I said about the retainer and how it effects his RDAP program in a very lengthy post on the subject you can read here.
So, to summarize, Joe could well get into the RDAP despite his illegal status in the country as a non-citizen; however, the only result of that would be to move him into an ICE facility a year earlier. It’s still a good gig for him if he can get it with regard to moving out of prison sooner, but most likely he will be spend at least a couple of years awaiting deportation in an immigration detention facility. If he gets lucky, and is admitted into RDAP, and earns all his good time his release date will be 3/14/18. That’s a week short of two years.And then, he will be in the deportation center for most likely at least that long, in which case it highly likely that the next time he is a free man will be no earlier than 2020 and he will be in Italy when it happens with no possibility for a visa to return.Lawyers for Joe were in court today arguing that Fort Dix is excluding him for the RDAP program which now pushes his release date out a year father to 3/14/19. Their motion also claimed that the prison is preventing him from fighting his scheduled deportation. The prison does not allow inmates to appear before immigration judges. According to the court document, other federal prisons allow inmates to challenge their deportations. The earliest he will be able to challenge the order is after his release to ICE in 2019. This is a problem because it takes years to challenge the detainer and his attorneys want to go ahead and get started on that.|
He is not going to win a challenge against ICE. He will likely spend at LEAST two years in civil detainment. Then he will eventually be deported to Italy no earlier than 2021 and will not be allowed to return to the United States. EDIT Today’s news means that Joe’s immigration attorneys can begin appealing the ruling while Joe is still in federal prison. This could limit his time in the ICE detainment center and expedite his removal to Italy.
So again, the reason people spend so much time in the nasty ICE detention center is because their attorneys are fighting the detainer and due to the number of deportations and the limited number of judges the process usually takes years. So last September when Joe was not allowed into the RDAP program that was offered at Fort Dix, and because Fort Dix does not allow inmates to appear before immigration judges, his lawyers petitioned to have him transferred to Allenwood where he would be allowed to go to immigration court.
Joe was transferred to Allenwood fairly quickly after he was denied RDAP (due to his detainer and program overcrowding) so that his attorneys could begin the process of challenging his detainer. This is good news for Joe. The bad news for Joe is that his charges are considered “aggravated felonies” and this pretty much seals the deal that he will be deported unless his lawyers have some sort of miracle up their sleeve. However, if they start fighting his detainer now, a process that takes years, even when they decide to deport him anyway, this process is cutting down his time in the ICE detention center and expediting the process of him becoming a free man in Italy.
Even if he exhausts all avenues to attempt to stay in the US, which is the most likely outcome of the immigration court process, he will still be released to ICE upon completion of his sentence to await his deportation. He just won’t have to sit in a deportation center for as long as he would have if he had to wait and begin the process on arrival at the center as he would have if he had stayed at Fort Dix.
So ONCE MORE WITH FEELING, there has been no change in his deportation status since he was put on detainer in March shortly after he arrived at Fort Dix. ICE has been planning to deport him the entire time. He will have to serve his sentence here before he is deported. He will not be deported before his sentence is over. And the final deportation order is yet to be signed.
His current release date is March 14, 2019 at which point he will be held in the deportation center by ICE until his deportment is scheduled.
Thank you TT. I saw the reports on this earlier but was waiting for you to post the sensible news instead off the sensational.
He could be deported to much worse places. He even speaks fluent Italian so its not like he’s going to a world he doesnt know. I was under the impression Teresa would be divorcing Joe after she somewhat seemed to announce it at Luann’s cabaret show a couple months ago but Teresa’s lawyer is saying she won’t be divorcing him. Maybe she just said it for attention, who knows. I don’t think for a second she and the kids would move to Italy to be with him though. I used to think she would but I don’t anymore.
Too bad, so sad. These criminals already got too light of sentences.
Exactly. They both need to leave. She’s as dirty as he is, if not more. Get out.
She was born in New Jersey. There’s no possibility of deportation for American citizens.
Nope. She was born in Italy. The Gorgas emigrated to the US when she was a toddler.
She was born in the United States. Joes parents brought Joe to the hospital when she was born.
I too graduated from the Google School of Law 🙂 but I practice in secret.
I went to the one across town from there; the Law & Order Marathon School of Law. I found their curriculum to be more entertaining.
I want you both on retainer. Except I lost my retainer. In 1973.
Here’s what I don’t get— he married an American citizen. So…why is this an issue?
Marrying a US citizen doesn’t make you a US citizen.
Judge Perry for supreme court!!!
He never applied for citizenship. This whole thing wouldn’t be happening if he had just gone thru that process. Instead, he’s a non-citizen that stole several hundred thousands of dollars due to the US government in taxes.
OK, this is what gets me: He came over as a small child and his entire family BUT him got their citizenship. Why??????
I worked with someone who came as a child from Italy via Venezuela. When his mother became a citizen, she did not have her children become citizens. He finally became s citizen in time to vote against a certain person who likes deporting people.
He’s lazy.
What I want to know is how Joe was able to travel to Italy and back to the US for that trip they took in season 2.
I know it’s been speculated that he used his brother’s passport, but…I don’t know. Does his brother even have a US passport? Even if so, it’s pretty ballsy to use someone else’s ID that has their picture in it! I mean, they don’t look that much/i> alike. Didn’t the production company notice that the tickets were under the brother’s name and not Joe’s, if that’s what he did? Wouldn’t that have raised a red flag with somebody?
It’s all very strange. Makes no sense to me.
Dammit. I hate when I fuck up my HTML tags! ?
He has to have had an Italian passport at some point to get to the US. So maybe he just updated his Italian passport?
If he had a green card as a permanent resident he would be able to travel.
I still can’t get what Caroline said out of my head. She was spot on with her prediction so far which makes me think this was previously discussed way back then. I think she has every intention of divorcing him and writing a book about it.
I’ve worked with Immigration but with helping refugees get final citizenship approvals. I know little about regular immigration procedures except that it is very convoluted. Can’t Joe just agree to deportment and fly out as soon as his prison sentence is up? If he has little chance of staying, why be incarcerated for another few years and spend so much money on lawyers? The family can move with him or go back and forth. That seems better than visits to incarceration facilities plus Joe can find work. It’s all
too bizarre!!!
When you commit crimes in this country as a non-citizen who is deportable, you don’t get to buy a first class ticket to Italy and call it a day. You go through the legal process of deportation. It’s a long process because there are so many deportable felons. So they are all housed together in a nasty facility until their turn comes up.
Surely Teresa won’t need to divorce him or divide up assets once he is deported to another country. He might have to take the initiative to get anything. A shame for the children who will lose their dad except for visits.
Why wouldn’t she divorce him?
If she divorces him she will have to divide up assets, house, etc, instead of just carrying on as is.
There are zero assets in this marriage. The house is worth what they owe on the mortgage, the cars are leased, Teresa said on WWHL there are no savings.
OK
They’re Catholic, no? I don’t know how devout she is, but divorce could be a problem for her.
So has he never had a ssn, legit driver’s license, passport, etc or what? How did he either not know or never take care of his citizenship status?
He used his brother’s information because he wanted to fly under the radar. He didn’t want US citizenship.
There is this culture, in NY/NJ I learned about while living in NY. I met this guy in a trendy restaurant where celebrities frequented, who had a LOT of coins in his pocket, a lot. He had no credit cards, ssn, no paper whatsoever. He did not speak with an accent, obviously raised here in the U.S. Some groups of people here break their necks not to be marked with a SSN (and of course you can’t have credit cards without an SSN). Therefore, the pocketful of coins to make a long distance call to Jeffrey Osbourne. He was trying to impress me. LOL
My husband came back from a round of business trips to that area. There were mostly restaurants run by people of Italian descent and he had a hard time because he needed receipts for his meals that he could turn in to his company but no one wanted to give him one. They wanted cash only, no transaction records of any kind.
I don’t profess to know much but since he came here as a baby – he is literally like the young DREAMERs.
When you are “undocumented” – which I think means you don’t have a current VISA, etc. – but weren’t given a choice as a minor child or had a VISA expire when you’ve established a life here (and contribute to our society), you previously could just check in once a year with the authorities (can’t remember if it was ICE or the other office). So while you were undocumented, you were not an unknown threat at all. You at least contributed taxes through your paycheck, etc. (that is the ironic thing – they pay into SS, but can’t get it out). I think he could also get a driver’s license (I don’t think it requires citizenship either)
You also were in a catch 22 because you weren’t in a status or didn’t qualify for instant citizenship. It could cost a lot in attorney fees or take decades to get it.
I know there was the case in the midwest where the white woman who married an undocumented guy from Mexico, and she was a vehement Trump supporter. Their kids were teenagers. Then after the election, they deported him. She thought they were only going to deport the “bad guys” and is crying the blues. The guy had owned his business for 20 some years. I’m not even sure he spoke Spanish, and he had to go to Mexico.
You must have a valid Social Security number to work and get paid and pay taxes in the US. You must also have either a green card or an Employment Authorization Card to work in the US.
Anyone who pays into SS gets it back so yes, they can get it out.
I am in human resources for the busiest restaurant in South Florida and process many legal aliens through Homeland Security’s E-Verify which is how I know this.
There are a few professions that employ illegal aliens but there are only a couple. Agriculture is one, mainly tobacco in the southeast and crops in California.
I’m not sure what you are talking about above.
Joe never worked for anyone. He did construction with his own “company” for people. I highly doubt he was paying taxes on whatever he was doing.
TT do we know if he has a green card?
It has never been clear to me what if any documents he has. I’ve seen it reported as everything from undocumented entirely, green card, permanent legal resident… I used to cared but it really don’t make any difference at all to the outcome.
You can not work agriculture in California if you are a illegal. Growers and ranchers use e-verify.
There are a few small ranchs with 2-3 employees that might not use e-verify but it’s not often. A phony #SS is easy to track now.
Most growers are hurting for crews at harvest or hand picking time. The crews are paid premium and booked in advance.
I brought my kid here as an immigrant back in 07. When we became permanent residents, she did too. When we became citizens, because she is a minor, she did too. So depending on if/when Joe’s parents became permanent residents, he would have too. At that point you get a SSN if you didn’t already have one. You can get a drivers license in some states with no immigration status, others will only give them to certain categories.
Undocumented means either you didn’t come here through legal channels, or your previously legal immigration status has expired (a lot of tourist visas and student visas overstay).
This is my take on this situation. I really do not think that Teresa even cares if Joe is deported and likely wants him deported at this point. That way when RHONJ is cancelled (and it SHOULD be canceled) Teresa can have her very own spin-off showing her and the girls travelling to Italy to reunite the family. For some reason, I keep getting this nagging feeling that this is what is truly happening.
I think the only way Teresa will visit Joe in Italy is if it’s filmed, she doesn’t visit him in prison very often because of the distance. Strange too, how devoted Joe was about seeing her. I would had thought Teresa would had kept face by seeing Joe more.
As to splitting assets, do you honestly think Teresa would share equally? Teresa’s already blamed Joe for her problems. Joe will have better luck from his brother.
What assets? Her Louboutins?
They are in the mess because of their irresponsibility with money. She is spending as fast as she makes it.
They still have that $13 million to pay back. She’s only paid back fines to keep her from going back to prison.
TT, you’re the only site anywhere who is posting the truth about what happens in these cases.
IANAL, but I have friends who are and when I asked them what was going to happen to Joe they fired off questions to their friends who do work in immigration law. Out of all the things they said about Joe’s case the thing that sticks in my mind is that they said he would almost certainly be deported—no way around it—and that immigration would make him serve out almost all of his sentence before they deported him to Italy.
I sort of feel sorry for Italy. Ya know?
All kidding aside…I feel terrible for their kids. I know we only see what TV and the paps want us to see, but from what we’ve seen it would seem their kids might have had a better chance if they were raised by wolves.
Thanks again for the tea, TT. You do get it right, my dear.
I can’t understand how he’s lived here since being a baby and never applied for citizenship. What did he gain by that? Never voted, save any taxes? no jury duty, what’s was the reason? It’s incredible. Those kids have been through so much because of them and their greed to live high on the hog. So many of these HW shows, these people. Rewatched some RHOBH with Taylor and read all about the apparent schemes she and that husband did. Don’t these folks ever think they’re going to get caught?
I don’t understand why his parents didn’t file for his citizenship along with their own and ALL of his siblings. The reason they gave back in 2016 was that they simply forgot.
And this info from the same 2016 article that comes from an immigration lawyer: the reason Teresa may be vague about whether she will follow Joe to Italy is because if she says she will follow him then it shows there is no hardship for him to remain in the U.S. Joe needs to prove as much hardship as possible. Teresa may also be planning to divorce him, but is also keeping that under wraps. No matter how much she might possibly want to be away from him she surely does not want him far away from their girls.
I sort of understand why she is being so secretive now. Wish I had read that article when it was first written.
That’s an interesting point. Maybe he will win on appeal, but the whole thing is crazy. If does go, then, maybe I guess he could come back in to a sanctuary city near where the kids live. Not sure about this stuff but it sounds shady in his age group to have never become a citizen.
My theory is that they have money stashed in Italy, which is why they’re not too worried about him being sent back there.
Thanks TT for the update. As far as the judge saying he made this decision as a matter of law is because there are questions of fact and questions of law. Questions of fact are “did the car run the red light” “was the driver negligent” and things like that.
Wow. Thanks for the info and explanation. Not looking good for Juicy.
LIfe Lesson: It’s better to have a social security number and be legal than to be felon and deported.
That was the best explanation ever of the process Giuseppe faces. I must admit, I didn’t think he would end up being deported – I thought he’d pull some kind of legal shenanigans and get out of it. Like everyone else, I don’t understand why he never applied for citizenship when it looks as though everyone else in his family did – his brother, his mum an dad. Was he just too lazy? Didn’t he want to be bothered learning all the answers to the citizenship questions? I went through the process back in 1995, and it wasn’t hard at all, especially for someone who was already English-speaking like Joe. He would have saved himself a lot of expense and heartbreak if he had done that. Oh well, no one has ever accused him of being a mental giant. When I think of all the immigrants who barely have a grasp on the language and yet sill manage to get through, it makes no sense at all. Did Teresa know he was undocumented? It seems like she should have encouraged him to apply.
I really can’t imagine being deported to a country where I have never lived, with only a rudimentary knowledge of Italian. What a culture shock that would be and how would he earn money? What a stupid man. He was making a decent living before he started with all his fraudulent schemes – he should have left well enough alone.
Frankly, I was wondering if the White House would somehow intervene, but perhaps Trump is too busy palling around with Kanye West and Kid Rock to bother with the Giudices.
There are a whole lot of misperceptions about how the immigration system works. Earlier this year, I got my own crash course on the harsh reality of immigration court. Judges are installed by the Justice Department (rather than confirmed by the Senate, as other federal judges are) and must essentially follow instructions from the Attorney General on how to handle cases, so you really need to put together an extraordinarily strong case to stop a deportation.
Occasionally immigrants can find a way to file suit in federal court, though as you noted, it’s hard to find something that might apply to Joe Giudice. Considering he’s married to a U.S. citizen, it baffles my mind as to why he didn’t take advantage of his opportunity to have Teresa sponsor him for a green card.
Now that I have been schooled in this field (I knew VERY LITTLE before), I have one question: Is Joe being treated the same as anyone would be? Or is he being used to send a message? I am no fan of Tre or Joe, but it seems that this “white collar” crime is taking up time and resources needed to get rid of dangerous people. Then again, the feds never seem to run out of money.
Seriously? Of course he is being treated like every other illegal alien. It sounds a bit harsh because he came here as a child, but he CHOSE not to become a citizen, and to flaunt the system. He knew damn well he was not a citizen like his brother, mother and father. He chose not to be at some point and decided to fuck with the IRS. THIS WAS ALL BEFORE THE SHOW. He even asked Andy if someone had ever been arrested for something that happened on the show when they interviewed him.
Teresa and Joe both knew exactly what they were doing and I wish they could deport Teresa too rather than Bravo rewarding her.
In defense of Joe. I can understand how he never applied for citizenship. When my Grandparents came over on the boat they were poor and not very well educated. They struggled selling Italian fruits and vegetable in a market they had in the Italian section of LA. My Father would have never known or been advised by them to apply for citizenship as they barely understood the language or the laws.. It’s a good thing he was born here or he could have been in the same predicament as Joe
Seriously? Of course he is being treated like every other illegal alien. It sounds a bit harsh because he came here as a child, but he CHOSE not to become a citizen, and to flaunt the system. He knew damn well he was not a citizen like his brother, mother and father. He chose not to be at some point and decided to fuck with the IRS. THIS WAS ALL BEFORE THE SHOW. He even asked Andy if someone had ever been arrested for something that happened on the show when they interviewed him.
Teresa and Joe both knew exactly what they were doing and I wish they could deport Teresa too rather than Bravo rewarding her.
I still feel that Joe and his brother learned what they learned from the streets. I don’t think his parents were knowledgeable about the laws since they were immigrants.
I still feel that Joe and his brother learned what they learned from the streets. I don’t think his parents were knowledgeable about the laws since they were immigrants and barely knew much English when they came here.
I have to admit, I’m still surprised about the possibility of Joe being deported but I’m shocked that he owned a lucrative business in this country for so long without a Federal ID # (?) and didn’t report income taxes (?). ??? How did he even pay into Unemployment Insurance or qualify for Worker’s Comp. Insurance for his employees? Hire union members? I understand why he had to use his brother’s DL for travel. Federal Driver’s Licenses are now required for travel. Considering ALL of this,.why on Earth would Joe & Teresa sign up for a BRAVO show and make a flagrant display of success/wealth? This is the craziest . . . . . most STUPID thing I’ve ever seen on national t.v..! How does BRAVO find these people and allow this kind of stuff to continue?
What on earth makes you think Joe had a lucrative business before being on the show. He had an illegal all cash business and his crappy house they lived in was in foreclosure. All of these loans and crimes happened before the show when they came on with a pile of ill gotten cash.
My head is spinning! Can you explain? Why were they recruited for BRAVO?
I gotta know if Theresa, as a convicted felon, can even go to Italy. I guess maybe she has dual citizenship? What a mess.
She does not have dual citizenship. She is a US citizen. Italy is fine with felons visiting.
Any job asks for proof of ID, license and SS#/card………Given the fact that Joe got a paycheck from Bravo I am sure for being on the show……just saying they looked the other way on this also? Anyone who gets a “regular” job and fills out the tax form for employment – what the hell???? So shady on Bravo’s part as well right? Who is going to report Bravo for paying Juicy Joe under the table….does the guy have a fraudulant SS card??
Husbands are not paid to be on the show.
Joe also has a long list of infractions including a DWI and had his license suspended multiple (like 10 times) . He is not a first time offender.
And yes, the stupidity of Teresa to put Joe on national tv is just beyond.
When he was first sentenced it was reported that he was a legal permanent resident (e.g. green card holder). If that is the case then he can do all the things that have been mentioned above (driver’s license, get a job, travel abroad, etc.). Green cards issued prior to the late 80’s had no expiration dates and did not have to berenewed, so he could have just kept that status and not been able to vote.
He probably didn”t apply for citizenship because he didn’t want to fork over the nearly $800 it cost to change from legal permanent resident to citizen. Cards issued after around 1989 need to be renewed every 10 years, and it costs over $500 to do so. So when most people become eligible for citizenship there is a financial incentive to just do that. Assuming Joe had his green card back when there was no expiration date and he could do everything other than vote, he probably didn’t see the point in becoming a citizen.
I am in the process of changing from green card to citizenship and frankly it is expensive and time consuming, but definitely worth it in the end!
Even getting a Federal Driver’s License (for travel) requires proof of birth (a certified birth certificate), an SSI card, a photo ID and for women . . . . . proof of marriages/divorces, etc. to track how we arrived at our current name.
I did NOT recall that. I just asked TT if he had a green card.
No wonder you get upset about us saying “stupid things”! Trying to explain it over and over has to be exhausting and when one of us finally gets it, you must want to hit us in the head with a “hammer”! :/
Eesh, the over and over explaining! I love TT’s reference library. I have personally been stupid enough to ask a stupid question, quickly reprimanded by our fearless leader, wiped my brow that I was saved that time!
I am so curious to see how this all plays out. I don’t see an out for Joe. I did think for a bit his wife and family would encourage some sort of lenience by immigrations. I may be missing something but IMO I do think Teresa will divorce Joe eventually. I really have no love for this couple but their daughters don’t deserve any of this. It’s so weird how there appears to be no remorse at any level by either Joe or Teresa. .
I think if Teresa’s brain ever decides to start a band, the name of the group should be “Unconstitutionally Void for Vagueness”. Know that.
Free Juicy!
Wow ! That’s all I have got to say after reading this post. Great par usual. Keep us all in the loop.
I believe President Trump may have met Joe when she was on Celebrity Apprentice..
I am sure you are regretting even making this post!! Bang your head!!!
I read these comments in email and then click through to comment (sometimes I accidentally respond to the person’s email ooops, sorry) I knew before even coming here that it had to be the Joe met Trump on Celebrity Apprentice comment. LOL.
The things people believe. It would be like responding to someone who believes that little green people are going to land a flying saucer and take him to his home planet.
?
My uncles hoaxed some farmhands many years ago over a weather balloon. They told the farmhands that the balloon was a spaceship and they’d just cut loose some little green men who’d run away. Wasn’t long there was a pic in the paper and a visit from a deputy.