Caitlyn Jenner was on 20/20 tonight. It was not all about her this time, it was about transgender people in general with Caitlyn as a draw.
I’m watching this now and feel compelled to pause and post about this. I’m going to make this post all about me. Sort of. Because I tend to come screeching in kicking and screaming here a lot. One of the subjects I am most likely to do that on is gay rights. I will tell you that I am a proud fag hag from the beginning of time. That I have been waiving the gay flag proudly since the 1980s. I am the most accepting person of gay people who ever lived to hear me tell it, and I have always been this way.
That is a lie.
I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church. I was baptized in the Mediterranean sea when I was 9 or 10 years old, because my friend Marvella was baptized. And she was someone I looked up to as a kid. We talked about it in the yard of my villa where we were sent outside to play for long periods of time. As I recall, she was telling me if we just dug deep enough, we could get to China. I believed her. I don’t think I wanted to go to China anymore than I wanted to go anywhere else that my parents were dragging me all the time, Malta, Madrid, Beirut, most often. It just seemed like a good use of our time. We had a purpose. I probably got my ass beat because we actually had a lawn inside the villa walls and that was no easy task in the Sahara.
Up through the first two years of high school, I went on mission trips with my church youth group, sang in the youth choir while my choir director hoped I would quit or at least lip sync. He and my pastor who I thought knew everything were both fired. The pastor as it turned out was a child molester and the choral director, and a deacon were both rumored to be having gay sex in a local park known for such things.
So I really don’t know when my adoration of gay males began exactly. It was some time after that. College I suppose where I really started to notice that a lot of my closest confidants were gay. I would later discover this is a common thing with females who have been sexually abused. All the fun of a gorgeous man, with none of the fear. When the Internet happened, I was immediately obsessed. And as it turned out my imaginary Internet friends were more often gay men.
One of the most profound relationships of my life is actually an online relationship with a gay man. He has enriched my life in so many ways. He has donated to the my classrooms when I taught. He has given me expensive personal gifts that blew my mind. The two best gifts he has ever given me was to be my friend despite my beliefs and behavior that may have hurt him and the things he has taught me.
For many of our initial years we were more imaginary Internet acquaintances. He has been in a long-term relationship since I met him. I remember telling him early on in our acquaintance that I was not really down with gay marriage. I was still clinging to a lot of religious beliefs from my childhood. I’m pretty well versed in the Bible. I studied it since high school fairly seriously for a bit for personal reasons. I told my new friend at the time that the Bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman. I explained to him that marriage was about family and children and that if gay people wanted to have the right to medical decision-making and such that was just fine with me, but they should probably just call it a civil union.
On the top ten list of things I am ashamed of, that text conversation is way up there.
Admitting all that should probably get my fag hag card revoked. Only it doesn’t. Because of him. He eventually got married. And he never stopped talking to me. He never preached to me or told me I was a brainwashed idiot. He barely even argued his points. He kept being my friend. He’s been my friend for over a decade now. We don’t talk a lot about “his marriage” we mainly just talk like friends. He will say, my husband and I are going here or there. He is married. The conversations we have with regard to him being a man married to another man are just like the ones I have with my straight friends who are married. He is a huge reason that I am such a strong advocate for gay men. I also had a close bond with a female co-worker and her partner who both worked at the same job I did. My point is, it is all the same.
And then the transgender thing happened. I got a LOT of backlash when I said that Caitlyn was clearly transitioning. There is literally no other reason for a man to shave his trachea. I was fine with it. See? Why do I need to be fine with it, why do you? What difference does it make to us?
If I remember my point while watching this show, and I do have one, it is I think we need to be more understanding of others. And watching this show with parents of transgender children really reminded me of how far I have come regarding gay rights. Despite my lack of knowledge at first, my gay aquaintance who became a friend and a huge presence in my life, has stood by me no matter what stupid shit I have done. AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF STUPID SHIT I HAVE DONE. That one person, who stuck by me when I was ignorant about so many things. Has taught me so much. He has done it through being kind to me. And incredibly forgiving. SOFA KING forgiving. I can’t count the days when I have woken up and said, well, I fucked that friendship up.
The transgender issue is something that many people are having a hard time understanding. I guess, my point in making it all about me, or making it all about my friend, was brought on by the part of the show where those who were not particularly compassionate to the cause became more compassionate when they went to the interview with the parents of transgender children.
If someone you love is transgender, then compassion comes easily. And understanding is soon to follow. I came here to post this after checking my twitter line. I don’t follow a lot of people but a lot of those I do are gay men. And I was particularly disheartened by the abusive comments I read on my timeline by some of them.
As an independent, I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That pretty much means my democrat friends think I am Republican and my Republican friend think I am a liberal democrat. But it is my liberal democratic male gay friends that I saw bashing Caitlyn tonight I found disturbing enough to post this. Maybe they are just angered by her initial ignorance. Perhaps they didn’t watch the show at all. There is a T at the end of the LGBT community acronym. And even more Ts I think in the whole lengthy ridiculous acronym. It’s upsetting to me that the gay community is not as accepting to Caitlyn as they are to me. We all had to learn sometime.
That said, Caitlyn has allegedly gotten bottom surgery and plans to release a full frontal photo shoot. I think I speak for everyone when I say we don’t need of full frontal photo shoot of ANY ONE who is 67 years old regardless of gender, sexual preference etc…
Then again, I’ve been wrong before. Maybe we need to see it to understand?
The end of the story is about loneliness and family. It’s taken me a long time to write this. It is a personal post I may regret tomorrow as I have been relaxing with some wine.
But I am noticing a big trend on social media and here. There is a lot more hate than there is love on this site. I blame that on the fact we are all CONSUMED with watching shows where people are rewarded for bad behavior. I can’t seem to make a shift away from those shows. We are all feeding into that mentality, myself included. Bravo tends to promote “people you love to hate.” This feels like a problem to me. In politics it’s become about hating the other party rather than listening.
If we all don’t stop escalating the situation, things will only get worse. This is something I think about a lot lately.
I loved your story; thank you.
Don’t regret what you felt, what you wrote..
Regret that so many don’t want to understand..
Lots of people don’t understand, but some will come to understand and some, like Caitlyn, will work to understand and then to hear others and begin to really get it.
I totally agree that so much of our entertainment (TV, movies, books, social media) are so gleeful in celebrating the attention-seekers and how often the rewards go to the abrasive, the negative, to the bullies.
So many shows I have dropped or never started, but too many I still watch.
Luckily I have lots in life that is positive experience with a wide variety of people and I spend time offline, and that includes cell phone off. Volunteer work and providing service will do that.
I am happy you had a patient friend who could let you grow into new spaces at your own pace.
Some of the posters bashing Caitlyn may live and die frozen in toxic places, but hopefully, some will evolve.
All you can do is be an example.. And if they bash you for that.. How sad for them. At least you can block them.
When Caitlyn did that first big interview as she began transitioning, and at that stage only really hinted at her politics, I groaned. I felt like that was the stick she’d be beaten with, the excuse used for deadnaming her and calling her a man, and all the positive exposure of her journey would be overshadowed by that. So far, I’m sticking to my story.
I felt like Caitlyn’s story would be more whole, more compelling, and more consistent in five years’ time. I’m willing to put serious money on her endorsing a Democrat in the next presidential election. But of course she’s a Kardashian, so she was never going to be afforded the dignity of doing this in private.
I think people tend to assume LGBTQ people come out, and that’s the end of it. Their feelings about relationships, their level of comfort, their politics are all fully formed. And of course, that’s nonsense. It’s no less a journey for queer people than it is for the rest of you. A large part of this is due to the failings of our education system – the queer struggle for civil rights isn’t taught in schools, and it takes time for people to learn our history or for the current challenges our community faces to feel relevant. It happens for us the same way as it did for TT – mostly, through understanding friends and our empathy for their experiences. Equal marriage wasn’t important to me in my 20s, I had lived in a country where a civil union was the option and I was satisfied with that. Then I came to see it through the eyes of older gay men and women to whom the word marriage mattered very much. My feelings changed, and I realized equality before the law mattered to me too. It couldn’t be “the same but different”.
I think Caitlyn has had to go through similar realizations in a hurry, without the benefit of understanding friends – instead, the people who despise her most are from her own community, because some of us hold onto justifiable anger over her repeated blunders. She’s done real damage, and any trans woman will tell you how intense the online abuse became in the wake of her visibility. I have a trans sister living in Amsterdam, and even there people use Caitlyn as an excuse to insult her. I think for the sake of my blood pressure, I’ll come back to watching Caitlyn interviews in a couple of years’ time, and put her back in the box with the other Kardashians I pretend don’t exist for the time being.
Putting her “back in the box with other Kardashians” is the problem as I see it. She is not a Kardashian. She is a Jenner, an Olympian. A person exalted for being male her whole life when she was not. So for you to say what she should feel. is ridiculous, For you to blame the horrific treatment of your sister on someone else’s truth and excusing it on on she chose to marry is wrong. As wrong as what is being done to her.
Don’t misread my sentiment, I’m not blaming Caitlyn for anything other than what she says and does. The abuse and deadnaming that has increased as a result of her visibility is the responsibility of the people who carry it out.
I do think she has a responsibility for educating herself so that her story doesn’t perpetuate the pain of her community, and I have seen that she’s doing that – but she’s made so many mistakes in the meantime. She’s talked about things before she had the opportunity to educate herself, attacked individuals in the community who are seen as universal heroes by the rest of us, and I don’t really need to repeat any of that here and add to people’s pain yet again, but many times her comments and opinions change six months later and all the unhelpful discussion on the particular topic could have been avoided. That’s why I’m more interested in who Caitlyn will become than who she is right now, because a lot of times her contributions aren’t well-informed or valuable. Like your friend, I’d prefer to gloss over the messiness and retain any warm feelings I have for her, than to despair as I watch her walk into another blunder. I don’t feel like the reaction she gets from the LGBTQ community is helpful, it’s often hateful, and I’d rather just disengage from that than follow what’s going on with her.
The truth is, people in our community go through enough. For a lot of trans women, her words have oftentimes felt like having your head grabbed and pushed up against the window to watch your past trauma play out. Engaging with it and discussing it might help, but not everyone’s down for that or willing to go through it – a lot of us just need to step away and let her do her thing. I think we saw a similar thing from the trans women who participated in Caitlyn’s show: they tried in vain to get her to modify her tone on some topics, or listen to their lived experience, and she was often slow to do so or unwilling. We saw their frustration and tears, and the way it triggered memories of their pain. For some of us, this isn’t an abstract discussion about the rights of friends or society in general – it’s about ourselves and our family members, and remembering very difficult times in our lives. Reliving the breakdown of my family when my sister transitioned isn’t something I need to do for the community’s benefit, I’m pretty sure Caitlyn will get by without me watching her interviews or buying her book.
She lived as a man for 65 years. She’s in the infancy of her transition. Has she made mistakes? Absolutely. As has every single LGBTQI individual out there. But because Cait is a celebrity, she’s held to a higher standard and HER mistakes are publicized.
I’m a gay man and I would hate to have my coming out be publicized and judged, although in some respects it was, obviously not a 10th of the extent as Cait’s.
Cait’s growth as her “authentic self” is more than evident and I hope at sometime the trans community will support her, as has the major heavy hitter activists, like Jenney Boylan and Kate Bornstein.
EXACTLY! 65 years as a male and you want to judge her on her journey? I watched her show and she learned so much and really tried to understand. I admire her openness, her willingness to learn and to change.
That’s kind of my point. She’s on a new journey, and her message and contributions will surely become more consistent and valuable with experience. For some, watching that journey, its inevitable mistakes, and the circus around it (whereby those mistakes are appropriated as a means to attack the trans community) has been triggering, but it’s not a judgment of Caitlyn to step away. I actually think it just sets her up to fail to expect her to take on some kind of figurehead role for the community when she’s so new to it.
There are lots of more experienced voices on the trans experience for those who seek them out, and for something lighter I’d recommend Jenny Boylan’s new novel “Long Black Veil” (great piece of escapism that sort of brings the trans issue to the thriller genre). I think this is actually a very easy topic to expand one’s knowledge on, there are a wealth of resources – but from some of the comments below, it’s obvious that ignorance often gets in the way.
Johnny,
I am pretty sure not watching a show and then making negative comments is kind of what you don’t want people to do regarding the gay community.
I’ve watched countless hours of Caitlyn on TV; read many interviews. This is where I’ve come to, and as explained above, my only negative comments are in response to the things she’s said. I’m not blaming her for the way people have reacted, I’m just explaining that’s why people feel the need to disengage.
I don’t follow your analogy – the LGBTQ community isn’t a “show” to be watched. As for Caitlyn, my comments don’t come from any ignorance, I’ve seen all her reality TV work and just about every interview she’s done up until a few weeks ago. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone who followed her or defended her more enthusiastically. When she went after Ellen recently, I just sort of gave up – I believe that’s another thing she’ll come to regret in six months’ time, she’ll go on Ellen’s show and make nice, and in the meantime I’ve watched countless misogynistic remarks directed at lesbians and trans women (from each other, mostly) in a “debate” that wouldn’t have happened without Caitlyn triggering it. She isn’t responsible for what those people say, but the discussion was only going on as a result of her book, so I figured the easiest way for me to avoid that mess is to ignore what she’s doing for a while. It’s no more deep than that.
LOVE your story. I had the crazy Church of Christ cult-like we-are-the-only-ones-going-to-heaven upbringing, which laid the foundation for the freak-out my parents expressed when my best friend since age 9 ‘came out’ ..
Long story short: when he announced he was gay, EVERYTHING growing up suddenly made sense (his girl breakups, him never really staying with one girl for long, etc.) .. it didn’t matter to me what/who he was because i loved him and always would … many of our mutual friends abandoned him, so i abandoned them. I have been in fist fights with anyone who dares utter a slur against the gay community. i will defend anyone who is being harassed/bullied for being gay … i have quite a few friends who are HIV; have been for decades, and will lean in for the lip kiss, which still freaks people out. so uninformed.
anddddd i have loved LOVED loved the ‘tranny’ community for over three decades, and have many trans friends – real ‘friends.’ as you know, waaaaay back, the queens preferred the ‘tranny’ title and still do – it’s more the younger PC crowd that throws a fit with it – so i still use the word ‘tranny’ –
NOW. with that written, i have a huge issue with caitlyn. i don’t know why, i don’t know why she bugs me, why i still feel she’s a fraud .. i don’t know what it is. but i feel the same as many other gays do. and to be honest, while i have no doubt she has friends here, i know not ONE person in the LA gay community who ‘likes’ her … but to be fair, i haven’t taken a is-cait-a-yes poll or gone door-to-door but lots of streets talk here and i haven’t heard one positive word.
** Fun fact: In 2005, an attorney I work with told me off the record he had Jenner, under oath in a deposition, testify he was a ‘cross-dresser.’. I didn’t believe him. :/
LOVE your blog, TT !!
My sentiments exactly. Just because you like to wear a bra and panties doesn’t make you transgender. My college student daughter, back in the mid-nineties, also worked in a lingerie shop in a very conservative small city. Somehow, she became the go to fitter for cross dressers and transgender females. They would fly in from around the US just to have her fit them and custom order their lingerie. She was very good at it and was very kind and accepting to them as she had grown up with a mother who had many gay and lesbian friends and a transgendered client who became a good friend. My gut feeling is that Bruce is a cross dresser and has become a fame whore in the Kardashian style for the money. In my opinion, I, too, think he is perpetrating a huge fraud. I have yet to see him exhibit any feminine sensibilities.
I know what you mean. She seems more focused on becoming Kardashian-like than womanly in general. I cut her a lot of slack because the 65 yo mindset is more rigid than younger generations
Huge disrespect using the wrong pronoun and referring to her as Bruce. What human being on the face of this earth, would transition for fame or for money. The very idea is ludicrous. A “cross dresser”, certainly wouldn’t go through SRS just to put on a dress and make up. The ignorance is so many don’t understand the concept of gender identity vs. birth sex. It would have been great if you had watched the special, where the science was discussed.
Bottom line, using the wrong pronoun and using her pre-transition name, shows an obvious agenda.
I found this quote by asbestasio: “homosexuality” is a misnomer. it doesn’t actually exist.
homosexuality would mean “choosing to have sex with a person of the same gender,” but that’s impossible. you cannot have sex with another person of your gender. a man can fuck another man in the ass. that’s not sex, it’s a fetish. it’s homo erotic anal fetish. a woman can masturbate another woman. it’s not sex, it’s lesbian fetish. it’s masturbation, not sex. “homosexuality” is a lie. homosexuals don’t exist. there are people that have homo erotic fetishes but they don’t have sex, they play out their fetish. “transgender” is a misnomer as well. there are no transgenders. not a single one. there is not a single one person on the face of the earth out of all humans that walked on it that ever changed his gender. once born with a Y gene you will die with it. once born with XX you will die with it. you can add mutilation, surgery, you can add plastic of every kind but the reality of the matter is that you cannot change your genetics. you cannot change your gender. you can consider people that mutilate their organs just like people that pierce their tongue: they are fashion extremists. a man can wear a skirt to make a fashion statement, can add piercings to his face or cut his dick off or add plastics in his chest. but it’s still a man. a woman can cut her hair, wear pants, add plastic between her legs, remove her uterus and her mammary glands. still a woman.
In conclusion: DNA does not lie. Bruce still is and will die Bruce.
If you had watched the show you may have learned a lot. And DNA does not in fact lie. Some people are born with the “wrong equipment”
I regret to inform you that transgender is an actual thing.
I’m not sure why it bothers you, as you are cleanly one of the good people going to heaven for being all kind and stuff,
but there are a whole lot of people on earth who think that being who you are is just fine.
It’d be great if people could check out the science behind transgender before spouting some convoluted philosophy. What’s fascinating is the twin study, especially the twins that were adopted by separate families, raised apart and both are transgender.
According to the science, this is about how the brain absorbs hormones, which govern gender identity. All of this happens within the first trimester, in utero.
The twins where only one is transgender kind of debunks that theory, no?
The twins that were raised a part from one another are BOTH transgender. There are several fascinating articles on it, just google.
Cool. I’m talking about a different set of twins where only one is transgender. It is also googleable.
Yoya, I also read a similar article about hormones and how they work inutero with male offspring, wasn’t about females, It’s been out there quite awhile.
Well said.
Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.
Dr. McHugh, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles, made his remarks in a recent commentary in the Wall Street Journal, where he explained that transgender surgery is not the solution for people who suffer a “disorder of ‘assumption’” – the notion that their maleness or femaleness is different than what nature assigned to them biologically.
He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”
The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh.
McHugh is a 76 year old religious bigot who also says that sexual orientation is a choice. The only people who pay him any mind is the intolerant religious right whackos who also think that people can pray the gay away.
His incredibly flawed paper that was nothing more than a vanity piece published by The New Atlantis. which is not a recognized journal, nor is it peer reviewed.
I assume you are not interested in facts as much as spewing hatred, but if anyone else is interested, here is a pretty detailed piece about the man who graduated from college in the 1950s so I give his ignorance and intolerance the old people pass and am thankful his time on earth is limited.
http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/8/29/new-scientific-study-sexuality-gender-neither-new-nor-scientific
You did not read what was written…condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance. 10/4 and out
Dr. McHugh is 86 years old.
He was born in 1941, unless he monkeyed with that number the way he does others… That would make him 76.
Wait, it does say 1931. THIS IS FANTASTIC NEWS. Thanks.
wow. i laughed out loud. thanks –
I was not aware that Caitlyn had had her DNA tested and released the information to the public, for that is the only way anyone here would know what her DNA says.
Is she truly genetically male in that she has one X and one Y chromosome? Does she have two XX’s and one Y? Does she have one X and 2 Ys? I’m truly curious. Since you said DNA doesn’t lie, I’d like to know whwn you actually saw Caitlyn’s DNA testing documents, since that’s the only way you’d know.
Read up on gender identity, is what I’d recommend Karen, if you’re sincere. DNA does NOT determine gender identity. Don’t get hung up on the genitalia. Science says gender identity is formed in utero and as to do with the way the brain absorbs hormones.
I was 4responding to the comment above which stated that DNA doesn’t lie. This therefore has nothing to do with whether or not I am sincere.
Your avatar is Spiro Agnew and you expect people to take you seriously?
This comment is one big joke, right?
TT I hardly ever comment, but I read every word you write. This is hands down my most favorite post of yours. Such eloquent and beautiful words. And to think I am just a southern, redneck, republican gal. Very well written!
Personally I don’t think everyone needs to understand. Or approve. Or be “woke.”
Just don’t abuse people and treat them with respect and a bit of grace.
If I meet you at a dinner party and you don’t like The Gays, by all means don’t sit next to me. It’s no loss to me. You can have your opinion. It’s not my problem, it’s yours. Just don’t sit next to me and scream FAGGOT at me while stabbing me with your fish fork.
I may not understand, or agree with certain things. But that’s my opinion. I know the facts, I’m not ill-educated, and I’m certainly not ignorant. I will always treat my fellow man with respect and courtesy. However I’m entitled to feel how I damn well please.
I sometimes wonder why it’s such a big deal. I’m so much more than who I have sex with. And I certainly don’t care who anyone else has sex with. Or what’s between their legs. Why can’t we just all be nice to each other and STFU? *sigh*
/whispers…
So if I DO sit next to you, will you point out which fork is the fish one?
Obviously. That’s what Gays are for, dear.
You’re the best Mark…
Mark, that is exactly what I have thought. I don’t need to understand it all, neither does any one else, being gay, etc just is.
And the civil ceremony I thought was rude and belittling.
I become irritated at times this discussion is still happening, Equal rights for all. The end.
Never was a fan of Bruce, (now Caitlyn) but I’ve watched all the interviews and even read her book. I wanted to understand how she was feeling and what she was going through all those years when she was hiding who she really was.
What I’ve found is she is still evolving into who she is. Yes, she makes terrible blunders and changes her opinions on issues but I think this is understandable. I think this is showing her evolving and growing as a person and feeling comfortable in who she was born to be. As mentioned above, her problem is that everything she says and does is magnified because of her past as an Olympian and being part of the Kardashians.
Members of the community need to step back and look at their own coming out and imagine how they would’ve reacted with the eyes on the world on them and see how they would’ve handled it.
Thank you Tamara, cause for someone with a personal story it helps. I was able to write my family story, and delete, but got it out in words. It covers too much of above to post.
Think I can say this. Strict Italian Catholic family. Sister, 59, came out 35 years ago. Brother, 49, in current relationship with transgender woman met 30 years ago. 35 and 30 years ago, things were way different. They both suffered terribly.
ignorance is bliss –
I do not oppose their choice/belief/ or “born” that way because I have not been in their shoes. I do not hate because it’s different than my path. I don’t care what their reasons are, just as they don’t care what my reasons are. Every person has their own story to live and no person ….. but wait, I have a few questions. I’m sure these questions will totally enrage people, but here they are.
1. If everyone is supposed to be accepting of everyone’s “way” then why can’t we be accepting of a person’s political belief?
2. What about a choice in religious beliefs?
3. What ever happened to, “can we all just get along”?
Why is it that if you don’t agree with someone, they are automatically wrong?
The reason for all hate is the way we have been raised.
Some Christians believe all Jewish faith folks will go to hell because they do not believe in Jesus. I say if Jesus is standing at the pearly gates and a Jewish person is there, that Jewish person may say…Holy shit, you do exist and Jesus would say…you are forgiven because you were not taught to believe in me, but you lived a “good” life. You were kind, giving and caring of others and I love you just the same. You can give many examples of other religious beliefs and I am okay with it as long as it’s not imposed on my belief. I promise not to impose mine onto you!
My total belief is…IT’S NOT MY JOB TO JUDGE OTHERS!!! So, you can now judge me, but I promise I will not judge you!
I think people need to see change in Caitlyn, starting with her taking responsibility for her own actions and missteps as you’ve done and not blaming others, as she does Ellen.
You see her missteps are far more profound than yours as she was touted as the person who would teach those who needed to be taught. Perhaps the very public stage she chose was necessary for her to gain financial independence, but it shown a glaring spotlight on her ignorance of the community she was entering/is a part of and the politics surrounding it, along with the devastating consequence there of.
Give the LGBTQ community time. If Caitlyn is genuine, it will be noted and applauded. However if she falls back, that too will be noted.
By the way, I grew up a Liberal Conservative and still am. However the past now 9 years have forced me to pick a side. However, I’m moving back toward that middle ground, fiscally Conservative yet socially Liberal, and I’m happier for it.
Tamara I have to agree with your 2nd sentence in the 2nd to the last paragraph, but it’s not just on this site – it’s hatred spewing all around the world itself. The world today is nowhere like it was just 8 short years ago.
IMHO, You’ve got a 65-year-old man who for years has been the head of a (dysfunctional) household and known to constantly bump heads with his wife who is known to be the world’s biggest ever media-whore. This media-whore makes a living exploiting her totally narcissistic children (well at least the oldest ones are, the son appears to have been reparably damaged by the constant verbal abuse suffered at the hands of his oldest sisters).
The media-whore wife (who never seems to let a family problem go to unexploited) is now thrown in to a situation where she and her hen-pecked husband are getting a divorce while at the same time he wants to transition to a female.
Normally he would be able to transition quietly, but not as a member of THIS family. It’s got to be exploited too, or “caught on camera”.
Just as the public has watched this dysfunctional family’s episodes appear to end happily every week (like a current-day Ozzie and Harriet) – the public expects to see the perfect transitioning of a 65-year-old former Olympian turn in to the perfect female butterfly who says and does all the right things. What could go wrong with that?
People are trying to categorize Caitlyn. Trying to put her in a perfectly categorized box – so they can take her out to play with her when they want.
Just as the good-natured Bruce would relent with Kris and do what she wanted, when she wanted – the same good-natured Caitlyn appears to have relented and shared her transitioning with the world. That’s a pretty cruel thing to ask of her in my humble opinion.
People are wanting to watch a perfect storyline and if they don’t get it – they’ll lash out at WHO? The person they feel is responsible for not giving them what they want, and in this case it’s Caitlyn.
I feel bad for Caitlyn – she got set up yet again! And it’s just not right!
Beautifully written. I grew up , my parents were best friends with his, a man who came out fairly early in his life. IDK if it was even coming out because we all always just knew he was gay. Anywho, I have had discussions with his mother many times about her treatment of him. He is brilliant. Was writing music for movies since the womb, I believe. Has earned Emmys, Grammys etc… I have and will continue to say, ” If either my daughter or son grow up with not only 1/10th the talent, but strength, fortitude and character as he has; I will die a happy mom.” I love you Lance!!!!!! My life is better just because you’re in it.
Ah geez, now I’m crying, like a mortal. ?
I loved your post. I also remember digging to China and giving up at about one foot. Then I thought why did I want to go to China? I feel for Caitlyn. I think she decided to do what she wanted to do and the world made her some kind of ambassador and demanded that she know everything and educate the world when she just finally gets to celebrate who she is. I believe your born with your identity and thankfully times are changing and kids are being who they are. I don’t need a DNA test to prove anything to me. My nephew was chasing boys in pre school we knew right away he was gay he was born this way
I agree with Mark on this subject.
I feel like smart phones/social media are ruining…everything. I’m a broken record on this particular subject, though. I fucking hate it. People were already pretty terrible to each other and now it’s SO much worse, mostly because it’s so constant.
Do you drive with your phone in your hand? Yeah? GDIAF.
Turn my phone off when I drive. Nothing is that important that I can’t pick up at my next coffee fix.
I’m all for people living as their authentic selves, but I’d like (without rancor, hopefully) to explain why there is some controversy about the trans community, particularly trans women like Caitlyn.
The problem comes mostly from late-transitioning heterosexual men. They have spent their whole lives with male privilege and white male privilege in most of the cases that become prominent. When they transition, they continue to retain quite a bit of that privilege and pretty much all of the attitude that comes with it. So Caitlyn seems more than ready to assume the mantle of spokesperson for a community that she doesn’t really understand and certainly can’t speak for. Remember, despite their gender dysphoria and the pain that must have caused them, they’re still used to being in charge, straight white dudes. A disproportionate number come out of the military and a lot are actually very conservative republican types. (As an aside, you almost never see problems between the community and gay men who have transitioned or trans men.)
The trans community can be hard on women born women and lesbians in particular. Lesbians are actually being berated in online forums and told that they are transphobic for not wanting to sleep with a trans woman, who may or may not still have a penis. (I’d bore you with a long diatribe about lesbian erasure in general in society and how the trans community as contributed to it, but I’m going to leave it simple for now.) “The Vagina Monologues” was cancelled on one campus because “not all women have vaginas.” Ok, that’s a campus, kids are whack, whatever. But there was also a health clinic in Texas that was blasted by the trans community for including women’s reproductive information in a pamphlet because it would be potentially hurtful to trans women who don’t have the requisite reproductive parts. And many women object strongly to the porn-ification of women that seems to be these trans women’s ideal. Like Caitlyn’s Vanity Fair shoot.
So, when Caitlyn Jenner puts herself out there as a spokesperson for the LGBT community, as a gay man how am I suppose to react to her supporting Ted Cruz and then Donald Trump, coming out against gay marriage and generally putting her privileged foot into it every time. Might be nice to take some time, learn about the community and the issues before you put yourself out there as our savior. But that’s not what a person who spent their whole lives as straight white male Olympic hero would do, is it? (Caitlyn, by the way, is one of a long list, but since this thread is about her, I’ll stick to her as an example.)
In short, I’m a huge supporter of my trans friends (just three at last count), of proper gendering and especially of supporting trans kids who are most at risk. (I have a negative opinion of hormone therapy for kids, but we can talk about that if you’re interested.)
But I hope at least I’ve raised a few of the issues that you might not have thought about.
Thanks, Phl. So many things to consider…very interesting as well as alarming. I never thought about the white male privelige thing. That makes sense. Such a large issue, the impact and implications as well as ramifications. Anyway, thanks.
thanks, Phl from me as well. I’d certainly appreciate being ‘bored’ by your diatribe on lesbian erasure: Caitlyn’s journey this late in her life has been a gift to the wider world in that these politics/distinctions are being more openly and publically discussed. Obviously the down side of that is the rage, ignorance and pseudo science that accompanies the discussion (as we saw above from the person who quoted Dr McHugh. i don’t know Dr McHugh’s work, but I hazarded a guess at his being the ‘go to expert’ used by those opposing anything other than strictly biblical gender designation. next post, TT swiftly and cleanly outed him for exactly this. There is always at least one of these ‘experts’ floating around and deployed to end discussions. Thankyou for dealing with it TT the way you did, ‘experts’ like these fuelled the eugenics movement). I guess this is predictable and the best that can be hoped is that some will learn and be educated out of these forums. I watched ‘I Am Cait’ and I’m grateful also for being exposed to the work of Jenny Boylan and Kate Bornstein in particular, and also Candis Cayne. Their work inspired me to read up on theory and the arguments that are popping up around gender identity/dysphoria etc. As a high school teacher, the work of these activists is helping me develop language and explanations for the next generation, who I can only hope will be more compassionate and inclusive and informed. The most frequent biblical argument with respect to Cait I’ve heard is: it’s a sin for a man to put on the clothes of a woman. I’ve countered that by using the science: that gender identity develops very early in utero and has little to do with the eventual reproductive organs, so if the ‘man’ in question identifies as a woman, she should wear women’s clothes. I ask them to think about that. And how they’d feel if a younger sibling was in this position. Some of the posters above have mentioned how conservative opinions get changed when a family member comes out or transitions. I feel for Caitlyn, and the pain she’s experienced all her life, I think most people can identify with her pain. It’s ghastly that the ‘pray away the gay’ rehabs are still very much alive and well and conversly being fuelled by Cait’s publicity. Thankyou, TT, for the personal story. Phl, can you recommend a forum that addresses more in depth some of the issues you touched on in your post? I live in a state that has only just revoked the ‘gay panic’ defense, and in a country that can’t seem to get it together on gay marriage, though the politicians here seem to love spending a hell of a lot of money on not doing anything about it.
Thank you, Jennifer. I’m thrilled to know that there are high school teachers like you in the trenches. Of all the teaching posts I ever had That one was the most difficult.
Jennifer, I added a bit to the discussion below. I think if you look up feminisms response to trans issues you’ll get a pretty y good idea of some of the issues. I also discussed MichFest below which is a sad example of what happens when agendas collide.
I’m also really happy to know you’re out there making a difference with these kids.
Back to the kids thing and why suspected one kid was transgender and not gay, or straight or one of the many option. It was just my personal assessment and not one I have ever shared until this conversation. It’s hard to explain, girls and boys play together and in gender groups in school. This kid consistently made the female choice when given options. He mostly stuck with the girls. When he talked about his grown up life…I can’t remember specific things he would say but things like being a nurse, when even my girls would all say doctor. I just felt that child considered himself female. The kid was really quiet, cute in a very delicate way, and seemed very well adjusted. The kids loved him and never seemed to question why he was often on the girls team in class. I’m probably not explaining it very well. Perhaps I should not have mentioned it. It’s just a feeling I always had about that kid. I hope he is somewhere still as happy as he was in my class.
Great comment Phl. The fact that Caitlyn is throwing Ellen, a lesbian woman, under the bus is irksome for the reasons you outlined above. As a man people are more likely to listen when you speak up about these issues so again, thank you.
I saw you on 2020. you are stunning, beautiful and I love you. , I am 93 and have a great grandchild with a identy decision to make, whatever, she is my ggrand and will always love. god bless you.
from Marilyn kirby
I am really pleased about these comments. Thanks to everyone that went to great lengths to explain to me the reactions of some LGBT folks toward Caitlyn. I’m learning a lot!
I been on sort of a journey of how I felt about Bruce becoming Kaitlyn. My personal hangups, which I try to pay attention to and learn from, were mostly about transitioning at age 65. My understanding is that she got bottom surgery at 67. I thought about the serious nature of major surgery at that age, and wondered why she found it necessary to take that step. Then I came to the grand realization that I didn’t need to understand it. It had nothing to do with me. At that point I was able to take in what a monumental decision to become her authentic self that it was.
What I have learned from the comments here, that I didn’t understand at ALL last night was why there was so much backlash against her. The comments here filled in a lot of those blanks in my knowledge base of transgender stuff. I saw progress in Caityn last night. Like Johnny says, in five years she may be a lot more aware of how her transitioning negatively impacted lots of other people.
This is a topic that I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about. I don’t have any transfriends or relatives in the real world. So my experience watching Caitlyn’s show and her interviews has been quite different from those who were negatively affected. I get it now.
Thanks for your open mind and the understanding TT, it’s appreciated! I really think these conversations are valuable when we engage sensitively (as most here have).
I love u TT. I’ll probably never meet you but your authenticity is what brings me here. Plus, I work as a parapro at a school so your quips about that stuff, slay me. What I’m saying is l think all we can do as people, all we can do is try to understand. Not just LBTQ etc, but everyone. Less judgement would be a really good thing. Anyways, I just wanted to make sure you know that a 38 year old, mom of two, 13 and ten ,former cosmetologist,current nose wiper of kinders,(love them), is very impressed with the person that you are. I’m a nobody to 99% of the world, probably more; but I would be proud as hell to be ur friend. Even in the real world. Hell, especially the real world. I think you are a good person.
I think this is great. I understand more now. I have a lot of Gay friends. No transgenders. I wonder how her other children feel.
Hi Peachy Keen. Just FYI, “transgender” is an adjective, not a noun. So “no transgender friends” or “no trans friends.” Small point, but one that tends to drive trans folks nuts so I thought I’d let you know. 🙂
Thank you for the correction!
Caitlyn Jenner committed the biggest sin possible in the LGBT community, she came out as conservative. Had she been a liberal, all her missteps would have been overlooked. There are (political) reasons why Laverne Cox is touted as a hero and Caitlyn as a liability to the LGBT community.
Whether people accept Caitlyn or not, she has done more for the Trans community than anyone else in history, she gave them visibility. She started an international conversation.
Did she make mistakes, yes. Will she make more mistakes, probably. She’s human like the rest of us.
EXACTLY, call her all the names you want, question her motives or politics, her initial fascination with make up and fashion. Bottom line, she’s brought a very important conversation to the fore front. A conversation that will save lives.
This is a beautiful and heartfelt post. Thank you for writing and sharing it.
You are awesome Tamara Tattles.
As always, on point. Great writing.
“transgender” isn’t really possible, you can mutilate your body, dress in your chosen sex, but you will still be the sex you were born as. You can actually change your birth gender at the same time you can change your birthday. Age, sex, just a couple of things that are static.
Hi Joan.
I found it very interesting that this was your first post on the site, so I ran your IP address. This confirmed my suspicion that you made an new name to post this comment. You even attached a blank Facebook link. You went to a bit of effort to make your opinion heard.
It seems in your previous posts you consistently posted to attack someone.
Like Carole Radziwill. You said, ” Poor Carole, so far off base, assuming the Hildabeast would win the election. So far up in the gilded cage of New York society that she thinks everyone thinks the same as she.” Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy mocking Carole’s snowflake dramatics as much as the next person. I must not be paying much attention to comments lately, but that one violate the using stupid nicknames to refer to someone rule. I can’t stand Hillary. Most of that is do to my love of Libya and her blunder there as SOS that caused the death of many people trying to help the country and the American ExPats there. I really, REALLY, REALLY need healthcare, and because I live in a red state, it is way out of my price range. I really wanted Trump to fix that. I want secure borders, I want immigration laws enforced. I want a shake up of the same old two parties that have been leading this country. But eventually, I determined that in MY OPINION, Trump is unfit for office. I voted for Hillary.
I’ve never seen a single post of your where you were enjoying a show. Or were fond of a person on the reality shows you watched. You shared in a diatribe about Vicki from RHOOC some personal things about yourself. And your life struggles and a serious loss in your life. I hope that someone was compassionate toward your about that, I only see your comments in an IP search. You’ve been through some very difficult things. I am sorry that has happened to you.
There was one comment you made concerning the PULSE murders that struck the LGBT and Hispanic community in Orlando. You said. “It was an attack on the gay community because Islamic terrorists dispise gay people. If anyone had been reading news accounts of what the Islamic terrorists in the Middle East are doing to gays, they’d know how much hate they have. This is a horrible thing to have happened to Americans. That’s what they were, decent law abiding Americans who didn’t deserve this horror.”
I think that post is a lovely place to begin our discussion. I admire your compassion for the gay community. It was not that long ago that a lot of people were as confused by the existence of gay people as there are now people, such as you, and me trying to understand what it means to be transGENDER. I, like you am learning. But if you give me a chance I can try to explain it to you starting with the difference between sex and gender.
I’m a bit nervous to do this as there are people with a far deeper understanding of the subject reading and commenting here, but my ignorance has never stopped me before, so here goes.
When you are born, the doctor looks at you and says either “We have a penis! It’s a Boy!” or “It’s a vagina! It’s a girl!” At least that happens most of the time. But not all of the time. In about 1 in every 2000 births, the genitalia seems to be a little bit of both. That leaves the parent the overwhelming job of choosing the sex of the child. I actually know someone who gave birth to an intersex baby.
These days, most experts suggest that the parent not do surgery on the infant to make the child’s genitalia more closely aligned to one sex or another. The tell theparent to wait. That is because the child’s gender is assigned to the brain, not the genitalia. In the womb, the brain is formed and hormonal influences prepare the brain to be a boy or a girl. That is a REALLY BIG oversimplification of a complicated thing that is still not entirely understood. But your gender is established in the womb. Your sex is also established in the womb, so that you grow one set of genitals or the other.
Sometimes a child is born with a penis, but the brain is formed thinking it is a female. Or vice versa. This results in a child born with genitals that feel out of sync with what their brain tells them they are. Again, I know I will be corrected on all this later, but let’s go with this rudimentary explanation for now.
So back to those intersex babies with mixed genitals. The do not have a “static sex.” In the past they were “surgically mutilated” to be girls more often than not. This led many of them to “mutilate their bodies” back to male genitals that they feel like they should have been able to keep to start with. In a sense they were sterilized most most intersex babies don’t have complete genitals of either sex.
I bring up the intersex babies to show the differences between sex and gender and give examples that happen with regularity where the gender and sex of newborns do not match.
In other cases, like Transgender people, they have fully formed genitals that make them one sex or the other. BUT THEIR GENDER IDENTITY is of the opposite sex.
Read that last part a couple of times.
Transgender people have genitals that do not match what the hormones that formed their brains in the womb tell them is their GENDER. I taught a boy in the first grade whose gender was clearly female. He was six. It was clear as day that kid was transgender. He has all of the interests and feelings of my girls but went to the boys bathroom. He would line up with the boys when boys were called (I quickly stopped doing that and did line ups by tables once I realized, which was very quickly).He would self select the princess books and spent his recess with the girls. I also feel like I could tell which students were gay, which is a greater portion of the population. This kid, was different. He clearly thought he was a girl.
Now that I have gone into my elaborate discussion about the difference between sex and gender, I’d like to discuss your comment.
““transgender” isn’t really possible,”
I agree with you sort of. Everyone is born with a gender. THAT is what you will call a static thing later.
“you can mutilate your body, dress in your chosen sex,”
Here too, we agree. Although I would use the term transform, your body rather than mutilate. But that is an opinion and you are entitled to yours. The word “chosen” however is a sticking point. As I said in intersex babies the sex of the child is in fact chosen. The problem with choosing a sex for intersex kids is, until you know their GENDER IDENTITY, you have a 50% chance of getting it right. You see, it is important for the gender identity, which science now believes to occur in the womb based on hormonal absorption, to match the sex, which is determined by genitals. which brings me to my next point.
but you will still be the sex you were born as.
If your sex is based on genitals as I have said many times here. Once your do not have a penis(again way over generalizing), you are not male. Once you do not have a vagina you are not female. So the SEX of a person can be changed. Their gender identity CANNOT BE CHANGED. At least not yet. There is no way to manipulate the male brain to think it is a female one, or vice versa. The female brain has a hormonal cycle and the male brain.. may or may not. I dunno. I am already way over my head here.
The point of someone transitioning to the opposite sex is to make their brain and their genitals both get on the same page.
At this point and time, it is possible to change your genitals, via painful, expensive reconstructive surgery. It is not possible to reprogram the brain to be the opposite gender. Babies undergo sex change operations way more often than you think. BABIES.
I apologize that I was unable to understand the last part of your comment above. I hope I have made myself clear.
And finally, Here is your post on the Pulse shootings.
“It was an attack on the gay community because Islamic terrorists dispise gay people. If anyone had been reading news accounts of what the Islamic terrorists in the Middle East are doing to gays, they’d know how much hate they have. This is a horrible thing to have happened to Americans. That’s what they were, decent law abiding Americans who didn’t deserve this horror.”
I would imagine that there were probably some transgendered people in Pulse that night. I would hope that your compassion extended to them as well.
I’m not judging you Joan, You seem to have a lot of compassion for the gay community. I am merely asking you to try to understand the trans community as well. Would you consider trying to have have some compassion for transgendered people?
And thanks for sharing your thoughts.
It’s a big big world, Joan.
Sex is biologically determined. Not much you can do on the DNA level to change that. You’re either XY or XX (and, yeah, there is a very small population with an extra chromosome or two). For people who can’t accept that trans is real, biological determinism is usually where they go first. It’s very easy to say, you have two X chromosomes so you’re a woman. Which may be true at the molecular level and surgery won’t change that, your gender isn’t determined by your biology. That’s the relatively easy hurdle you have to get over, Joan.
Gender is an identity. There is no hard and fast science yet that proves that gender is hormonally or otherwise formed. There is a flawed MRI study from a few years ago and not much else yet. That said, I tend to agree with TT that it is likely innate, but there could be a ‘nurture’ explanation as well. When my parents asked me how gay people are made, I said, and this is a direct quote: “Well, there’s a big debate about nature vs nurture, so I guess either way it’s your fault.” They had the decency to laugh. 🙂 People with true gender dysphoria are pretty consistent in their feelings of being trapped in the wrong body. And ask yourself this, Joan, would anyone really sign themselves up for a lifetime of hormones, surgeries and public scorn unless it were something that was elemental to them? Do you think being Caitlyn is easier than being Bruce?
Where the biology argument gets a little interesting is in what I posted previously, which is do trans women have equal claim to womanhood as women born women? And can they deny women born women (and yeah, that is a thing, not a term I’m making up!) the right to their own spaces? There was a very famous annual lesbian event called Michfest, which was basically camping, music, seminars, etc. out in the woods on someone’s property in Michigan. These lesbian women preferred not to have women with penises or who formerly had penses at their festival (see, what I did their Joan?). The trans community went nuts, a very polarizing online debate took place and the ultimate effect is that last year was the last year of Michfest. Which I think is sad and is especially sad for my lesbian friends who went every year and viewed it as their space.
The fact that I think that women born women have the right to their own spaces makes me transphobic (or trans exclusionary) as far as the most vocal trans advocates go. Which is a problem I have actually with their advocacy and their willingness to erase the importance of the life experiences of women born women to advance that cause. But I do see their point. Trans women want to be women and treated as women without the ‘trans’ qualifier. For the person who asked me about further reading on the subject, just google feminism and trans rights and that should get you started (we’re not allowed to link here or I would). Just steel yourself, there is some pretty hateful dialogue out there on all sides.
I’m fascinated to hear Tamara’s stories about being able to identify children in formative stages as either trans or gay. I’d love to hear more about it because I’ve heard/read it online as well from other educators. How do you know the difference between a boy who wants to wear a dress and an actual trans kid? A lot of studies have shown that about 80% of kids who defy gender norms (cross dress, play with dolls, etc.) grow up to be gay and not trans. Ditto for tomboys. It’s why I’m not a huge fan of sending kids down the path of a lifetime of hormones when their brains and bodies are at such a developmental stage. That said, trans adults report puberty as one of the most difficult, harrowing and painful moments they had to endure for obvious reasons. So if there really were a way to ‘know’ for sure, that would save a lot of pain.
I’m oversimplifying a lot of it. But it’s a topic that interests me quite a bit and it’s nice to have a spot where people are discussing it like adults rather than yelling at each other. 🙂
Oops. I should have pointed out that many lesbians at Michfest were fine with trans women attending. I didn’t mean to suggest that all lesbians are on one side of this. The debate was fierce and fascinating. That the ultimate outcome was cancellation of the event still strikes me as sad.
I was pretty well chastised for having a contrary opinion of “trans-gender” people, which is exactly my objection to the whole thing. There are people who view this aberration in today’s world as exactly that, an aberration, magical thinking, wishful thinking carried to tragic ends. I think my biggest objection is that I’m being blackmailed into keeping my opinion quiet or I’ll be called a bigot, heartless, in-compassionate, etc. If calling a him her is being compassionate, then I’m not. He’s still a he. He looks like a he in woman’s clothing. He sounds like a he. OMG, he is a he!
Can’t help it, calling a cheese a cheese.
You will regret nothing about this post in the morning. Your writing style tonight reminds me of how you wrote in the past.
Very enjoyable reading.
For whatever reason I was always accepting of all diverse relationships. I worked late night shift in a restaurant from a young age and had the gay bar crowd as customers.
I fell for one older gay guy (34 yrs old, ha) and my best day was whenever he sat in my section. I know now he knew but back then I thought I was all that. Certain it was my secret. He was very kind to me.
I’ve never understood why some people think or feel gay marriage harms them or harms their marriage. Makes no sense to me, I do not understand. Equal means exactly that with no exception. I’ve no understanding why another person private life is their business or why they care.
Love is love, more people in love makes the world a much nicer place.
Caitlyn made a few mistakes when she began her new life. So what, we all make mistakes. In one way it’s sort of interesting with gays bashing her, they have achieved that equal right.
I have such mixed feelings about Caitlyn. I will be forever grateful that she had her show I Am Cait for 2 seasons because it did introduce me to Jenny Boylan and Kate Bornstein, among others. I follow them on Twitter, and I don’t think I do Cait any more.
Full confession – I like the Kardashians and Kris. Sure most of them are a bunch of cotton headed ninny muggins, but I think in general they have good hearts. Especially Kim. They don’t really hate anyone, nor do they get really nasty to each other. In fact, I kind of admire that they are ride or die chicks as siblings. (Sorry to someone who talked about their treatment of Robert – that young man needs a kick in the ass. They need to be tougher.) Kris has worked hard at making sure that they aren’t on welfare at least!!! So I’ve not only watched I Am Cait – but I keep up with the Kardashians.
My problem with Cait is twofold. One, despite being gently led to learn more about the LGBTQ+ community as a whole, Cait is clinging to and wrapping herself up in her formerly male white privilege, and her wealth and fame bubble is allowing her to do so in a way that no other trans woman has the ability to do. She displayed some sympathy (but not empathy!) to individuals she met (Blossom who was trying to get into nursing school, but meeting some major obstacles because of being a trans woman) without acknowledging it was a systemic prejudice and problems that were preventing more than just Blossom from achieving dreams or even simply supporting themselves without resorting to drastic measures like sex work.
Two, her lack of understanding towards her children and step children. Her biological children (at least the older ones) seemed, at the beginning, to be happy that they had a reason that their parent had absented herself from their lives. (I never really believed that it was all Kris that “made” Caitlyn ignore her other biological children) I noticed however, that they simply released a statement this go round of interviews, a statement that, to me, was just to affirm they are not transphobic.
But Cait seems to have NO fucking clue as to why Khloe is struggling with Cait vs. Bruce. I feel sorry for her (Khloe). In seasons past, I enjoyed watching then Bruce and Khloe interact. It was obvious there was a bond there – there were times Khloe took Bruce’s side over her mother’s.
But Caitlyn keeps saying nasty shit about Kris. I think perhaps Caitlyn THINKS she was clear in telling Kris early on, but I don’t believe Kris understood or that the telling was coherent. Instead of criticizing your children (including your step children) for not reaching out to you – how about you stop bashing their mother, and call them? Call them, and ask about THEIR lives? Ask if they are ok with everything? Allow them some time to grieve “Bruce” – yes, I realized she isn’t dead, but still.
Frankly, Cait should have been grateful for the primarily positive response she got from her family, and worked hard at improving her relationships with each and every one. Kate Borland hasn’t seen her child in decades. Plenty of transgender people get zero support from family, and are homeless because of it.
wow. You seem overly invested due to your love of the Kardashians, and quite judgmental.
I’d also like to stick up for the discarded boy child of Kris’
She really fucked him over. And I so blame his sisters as well.
No…. just maybe a little drunk!
I don’t even care that Caitlyn is conservative – but she’s completely in a naive bubble if she thinks the strain of Republicans currently pulling the strings are not vehemently disgusted by and against the LGBTQ+ community, she’s more of an idiot than I thought.
Cait raised that boy too.
Watching Cait struggle with her beliefs, as her friends and advisors carefully explained why they were inconsistent and/or damaging to the LGBTQ+ community she’s now a part of, was a wonderful highlight of the I Am Cait series. A lot of people really came down hard on her for her conservative politics. The life she’d lived, with all the white male privilege afforded to her was a double edged sword though. The cognitive dissonance must be intensely difficult on top of all the other changes she’s going through. She’s 67 years old! My heart burst for her as she took us through the timeline from her childhood onward, and I think her elderly mother is a real hero for own acceptance and love, especially when you can tell how invested she has been in her athlete son.
Cait has a large family. I loved her considered parenting over the years on KUWTK, whilst knowing also that we are only seeing what we are permitted to see. All the years of her snatching what time she could in her preferred clothing, secretively and with the terrible risk of being ‘found out’, the crippling shame she must have felt, the terror of admitting to herself that she couldn’t be happy in a male body, the broken relationships (her first wife, a marriage she admits failed because of the war going on inside her), I really felt for her.
Life is about growth and change. Hateful people fear both these things. We are all challenged throughout are lives and we can all identify with being secure in a belief that seemed incontrovertible, then sensing in our guts that something isn’t right, ignoring it, clinging more ferociously to it, experiencing anxiety/depression etc with the dissonance, then having the courage to admit that we were wrong, that we’ve outgrown the ‘belief’ or it is dangerous, repressive or just plain wrong. The reward is the freedom that comes from being true to ourselves (the authentic self, I guess). It takes strength and courage to rid yourself of a belief system you feel is foundational to your self. It could be a religious upbringing, or it could be the conservative politics that Cait feels is part of who she is (that’s the impression I get from watching her all this time). She’s long defended this belief, argued about economics, formed friendships because of it.
I get that she’s succeeded in changing so much in a short period of time. Especially physically. And some of this wouldn’t have been possible if she hadnt had access to the resources afforded her due to her position of privilege. This must be tearing her apart. But attacking her for it won’t help the situation. Her friends, especially Kate and Jenny, were so gentle and patient with her. And courageous. They didn’t let her get away with dissimulating, but they never forced her. Cait is extremely fortunate to have access to friends like these. i really admire these women. I hope Cait has the courage to question her political beliefs and find a place where she can be at peace with all facets of her new identity. It’s taken 60 plus years for her to come out as who she truly is. I hope she finds someone who will love her for who she is, this seems to be what Cait most wants. And I really hope that people will learn from Kate and Jenny’s example when confronted with beliefs they disagree with. That is what I hope will be one of the main takeaways from Cait’s story.
This is not a trick question – it is asked sincerely. I think we are all in agreement that the only thing about Caitlyn that has changed is her public gender identity. All other traits remain the same.
So then why can’t Caitlyn continue to be what she has been all along – conservative Republican? Why “must” she become a liberal Democrat?
btw, I’m referring to her “inside”, not her outer appearance.
I haven’t seen anyone say she “must” become anything. That’s a question loaded with intent, but I’ll try to assume your intention was benign. If you meant you’re simply unclear why Caitlyn’s community take issue with her politics, I’ll try to explain.
Caitlyn is a public figure. She opens herself up to a certain kind of scrutiny. She made a conscious decision to endorse Trump and the Republicans.
In turn, the Republicans have pursued a vicious and petty anti-transgender agenda that does real harm to trans people. Caitlyn has therefore been challenged on her politics, which are at odds with her self-declared ambition to “do some good” for her community. Her politics appear hypocritical, and she has been asked challenging questions about them because she chose to put her politics on the agenda.
Caitlyn could have worked within the transgender community and condemned anti-trans policy without specifically aligning with either political party, and avoided the additional scrutiny. She pursued this conversation, and the LGBTQ have responded to it.
I hope that answers your question.
As I said, the question is sincere – no ulterior motives. I truly to not understand why her political preferences are a big deal.
She’s being interviewed on this very subject Monday, and when I heard that I didn’t understand why it’s even an issue.
So when I read Jennifer say, “I hope Cait has the courage to question her political beliefs and find a place where she can be at peace with all facets of her new identity”, I thought I’d ask here.
Well, the Republicans’ anti-transgender bathroom policies alone are putting trans women at risk. 70% of all trans women have been verbally assaulted in the bathroom, 10% physically attacked. How can Cait endorse a platform that leads to that, while declaring she wants to “do some good”? She’s talking out of both sides of her mouth.
Respectfully, I hope this encourages you to research Republican policy and rhetoric on transgender and LGBTQ issues. I understand many people don’t spend time thinking about this – perhaps it doesn’t affect everybody’s life – but please don’t mistake you not seeing the issue for there not being one. Look into Mike Pence’s history on gay conversion therapy (murder by another name, given the high suicide rate it causes), the bathroom bill controversy, the GOP’s history on issues like Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and equal marriage, and Trump’s promise for a “Religious Freedom” executive order.
If Caitlyn is comfortable with endorsing any of that, that’s at complete odds with her promise to fight for trans people. In short, it makes her a liar. You can’t endorse a platform that treats trans people as second class citizens while claiming to be a champion for the same community, those things are incompatible. It’s one or the other.
Again, Caitlyn could have avoided this by not endorsing any party. She could have limited the political discussion specifically to trans policy. She exercised her right to free speech by going further than she needed to, and instigated a difficult discussion. LGBTQ folk have simply responded accordingly.
Actually DOMA and DADT were courtesy of Bill Clinton. But I agree with you on the rest.
My issue with the science experiment formerly known as Bruce Jenner is that he is out of touch with reality and the definition of selfish. This man had two marriages that ended because of his gender identity issues and had four children that he abandoned. Instead of staying single and working through his issues, he then decides to get married again and have more children. Why do that to another woman? Why have more kids? He has destroyed so many lives because of his selfishness. I by no means am a fan of Kris Jenner. There is no way in hell she was married to that man for over two decades and didn’t know, but at the end of the day, her kids love her and ride for her which is more than I can say for him. Then Caitlyn’s stance on gay marriage (on Ellen, no less) and public support of Donald Trump. The white privilege that he exudes is astounding to me. Trump is a racist, misogynistic douche but all that was okay as long as it didn’t affect you personally. Now you’re retracting your statement and support? How about you just shut up? Learn and then comment.
There has always been tension between gay men and transee persons, many gay men don’t understand or see the overlap. Several years ago someone explained to me for both it is about sexual identity which gave me clarity.
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I love this post!
TT- I haven’t been much for commenting, as when I am at work I am blocked from commenting on blogs- but am making an effort to take time out of my non work hours to do so when I feel compelled- thank you for sharing. Your sharing has affecting me and I appreciate it. We all need to see the good and positive and not focus so much on the negative even though it draws us….looking forward to you’re life being happier ( despite the tax woes) and hoping for more positive comments and less attention to negative stuff- i.e. “Cash me outside” girl who I hear now has some type of reality show. Makes me sad because what good can that come for that child? I see a train wreck ahead…
Amongst all those special K women the lady is a champion.
I didn’t know Bruce Jenner personally. I don’t know Caitlyn personally. I watched Bruce in the summer Olympics and saw he was the greatest athlete in the world and I cheered him on in every event and I became a huge fan, full of admiration and pride for what he accomplished for our country.
I noticed the change in his appearance over the years and thought it was bad plastic surgery. When I read the rumors about his cross-dressing, I had a hard time believing that my Olympic hero was a cross dresser. I was in disbelief to find out this manly man of all men was going to transition to female.
My problem was not that he was a cross dresser, or that he was going to transition to female. My problem was the disconnect i had with my vision of who he was, based on only a small portion of what I knew of him, and the reality of who he thought he was.
My opinion on the entire topic is i don’t care. I dont need to know the why, i dont need to understand the biology or science behind it. He was still the greatest athlete that ever lived and nothing will change that. Not even transitioning into a woman. I wish for her, like I do for everyone i don’t despise, a happy life.
Daintyfeets I understand what you were getting at. It took me a while to process transgender topic too as it was never really something I had taken the time to consider.
I’m still asking questions trying to understand something that is foreign to my life – and that’s okay. No matter how old I get – I always want to keep learning.
“My problem was not that he was a cross dresser, or that he was going to transition to female. My problem was the disconnect i had with my vision of who he was, based on only a small portion of what I knew of him, and the reality of who he thought he was.”
I think the big get here is IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU . Or me.
And he was never a crossdresser. He was a transgender person.
I feel some sort of way about transgender being about CHANGING gender instead of being the gender you always were. I expect a NAME CHANGE on that to occur much like GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!!!! moved to climate change.
I probably shouldn’t have commented because I wasn’t discussing the real issue. My brain is too exhausted to think in depth on the issue if chromosomes and brain hormones. I will admit I used the wrong word when I said “problem”. I don’t have a problem, I have a conflict. That conflict is strictly of my feelings about bruce/caitlyn, not about the larger discussion about the hows and why’s of being transgender. As far as I know I stay out of others peoples business and just accept.
I’ve watched Caitlyn on a few other shows this week and I am left feeling that she gets a REALLY good edit on Diane Sawyer interviews. On the live shows she tends to step in it quite a bit.
On Live With Kelly they have the guest sort of walk a gaunlet of fans out the the interview area. At the end of the season each year they have awards for things like best entrance. Caitlyn came out saying that she wanted to win best entrance. Then she just sat down and started talking. I don’t think they ever asked her a question. She had two or three segments where she asked to host the show, and asked the guest host about his experiences crossdressing on a movie he was in. It was like she was interviewing them the entire interview. After a break she started speaking again with a quick question and then repeated a long story she told during the previous segment.
I saw her on Don Lemon accidentally while checking CNN for the level of fear I should have before going to bed.Sidenote: OPSEC is on high alert here in the ghetto shack. I believe that is where she said that she would love to school Trump on LGBT issues but that “my LGBT community would never speak to me again if I did that.”
On The View today she was asked about “white male privilege” specifically and really bungled that answer. She said (or I should say I heard) that women feel like they are weak, but they have had success in the boardroom and they have their own feminine ways to get things done.
In I believe every interview, the interviewer was told to ask if she would consider running for office. I am not sure if Live With Kelly even got that question in, but she may have answered it anyway. She says now that she has no secrets left she my finally agree to do that, because, so many people tell her she should. #eyeroll
I was reminded of myself on coke in the 1980s. I am by nature very longwinded and tend to explain everything in gross detail. On coke I simply never shut up and feel like everything I am saying is of huge importance to my cornered audience specifically, and the world in general. I also felt like the prettiest girl in the room. Also, I’d lose my place in the story and start all over again. It was like that with Caitlyn. I don’t mean to imply she was on coke, she just had that level of overconfidence paired with wandering delusions of grandeur, in my opinion.
Oh an on The View she defended voting for Trump. That’s a pretty hard thing to do these days, but she did a decent job of it. In as much as one can at this point by basically saying it is too early to tell.
I have never judged anyone for their gender or sexual preference. I support (actively) pro-choice, and tolerance for all.
Life is tough enough, because Life on Earh is Not a Free Ride. There IS in fact a price to pay, and the cost is due every single day. So as long as you aren’t hurting me or mine, feel free to do as you like, and I will respect, encourage, and help you in any way I can.
Oh, and anyone who wants to take on the “sanctity of marriage”, have at it. Good luck with that. Um……yah. So the grass is often greener, yada yada………
However, I do judge people for their continued and complete lack of self-awareness, and their preference to remain that way. I do judge people who live their lives flaunting their narcissistic personalities and traits, and all that encompasses, ad nauseam. I do judge people who genuinely think they are God’s Gift to the World.
And yes I am talking about Bruce, and Caitlyn and the Kardashians and the Jenners…..all family members that continually flaunt, and pout, and expose, and lie, again, and again, and again. And Caitlyn is as complicit as the rest of them, and has been since she was Bruce.
I think this is part of our society that has fucked us all over. That take money from young people at the most vulnerable point in their lives—when they don’t know who they are, and when they are trying to find themselves.
Usually desperate to be like someone else, because they can’t stand who they really are, because they don’t feel like they measure up.
And why do they think that? Because THEIR selfies don’t look like THOSE selfies. So they devote (and spend) their life and money trying to look like and be That Selfie Person. Only that someone else is not who or what they claim to be! It’s a con, a sham, a 3-cup parlor game.
They are all laughing all the way to the bank, and I think it is disgusting.