The Bruce Jenner interview continues for a second hour. It’s taking me a bit of time because there is so much to say and the commercials are extremely short.
Bruce has six biological kids and four step-kids. Bruce was terrified to tell them. He doesn’t want to do anything to hurt them. He told Brandon first. AKA the normal one. Brandon is the gentlest one. Brandon says that there were clues all along. Brandon says he was a bit relieved. Bruce says that he thinks they are all a little embarrassed. But Diane says that his four oldest children all called her up to support their dad on the show. Brody says his first thought was it all finally makes sense. They were old enough to notice when Bruce was on the hormones and developing breasts. Burt says he remembers a day in junior high when he had to get up and leave class because he was aware of a the term “gender struggle” and he was terrified his dad was going to transition into a woman and he would never see him again. The oldest four have come to terms with this pretty well. The oldest daughter takes comfort in the fact that she will be able to call “her” dad. They all find their father very brave. Brandon wants everyone to know he is even more proud to call Bruce dad. Brody referred to him as Bruce once during the interview. Brad says he used to call him big guy, so now he is going to have to find another term.
Bruce says that of the rest of his kids, the first one he ever told was Kim. She caught him wearing a dress. It doesn’t sound like they had a conversation, she left and went for a ride and they never talked about it again. When all of the TMZ stories came out she asked him about it so he told her everything. Kendall and Kylie caught him on tape once. They never discussed it. 
Recently, they all set down and he told them. They all cried. He says Kendall and Kylie are very protective of him and don’t want anyone to say hurtful things about him. Bruce says Khloe is taking it the hardest. He was surprised like I am. Khloe seems to be the most open-minded and compassionate out of all of them. Khloe has known Bruce since she was five. He is her rock. She has had a lot of loss in her life with her father dying and her marriage breaking apart. It saddens me to know that Khloe is struggling with this, but I think anyone in this situation would find it difficult to grasp. Courtney’s only concern is her kids. Kim said she had a break through on the issue. She says Kanye helped get her through it. Kanye says he is married to the most beautiful woman in the world, and has the most beautiful baby in the world but he had nothing if he can’t be himself. I am not even going to go there. Bruce says Kim has been the most accepting and the easiest one to talk to. She just wants his to be properly styled and represent the family well.
Kendall and Kylie told the show if he is happy, they are happy. There were no quotes from the Kardashians. I just thought about something. Kendall has been wanting to drop her last name recently. I wonder if this is the catalyst behind that. I think Kendall and Kylie should have been on with their Jenner half-siblings. But they are young and this is heavy stuff.
They talk a bit about the transgender community failing to embrace him for fear he will somehow set their progress back. They show lots of transgender bashing. The discuss the high suicide rate. It’s heartbreaking.
Bruce Jenner comes out as a constitutional Republican. I think Diane find this more flabbergasting than the transgender thing! LOL.
Bruce in all of his religious struggles over the issue has decided that perhaps this is the reason that god put him on this earth.
Bruce says he will still love all the “male” hobbies that he enjoys now. He has been back on hormones for a year and a half. He will have his face and breasts done. He has referrals and plans for the genital reassignment surgery, but he has not made a decision one way or another. He is not in any rush. And if he does it. He would due it so quietly no one would ever know.
Diane is hell bent on sexual orientation. She asks if he gets married again after the transition, would it be a woman? How many times does he have to answer this?
Diane asks Bruce, if he were her, what question would she ask Bruce. He contemplates and says, “Are you going to be okay?” So she asks him and he says “Yeah, I hope I am going to be okay. Think I’m going to be okay.” He invites her to have dinner with “her.” He wants to show her the dress he will wear if she accepts. Diane is thrilled to be allowed in is closet. He says it’s not a great closet but in his next house he is going to build a “glam room.” Ugh That sounds very Nene Leakes. He has his and hers closets. Literally. Bruce shows her a lovely black dress. Diane says, “By the way, that night she looked great. And really happy.”
Bruce says he is looking forward to being able to wear nail polish so long that it can actually chip. Bruce’s mother did a video telling Bruce she is very proud of him and she wants him to be happy. She is more proud of him now than when he was standing on that Olympic podium. His sister is there and has not yet seen “her.” Diane asks what his dad would say. This chokes Bruce up. He wishes he would have told him. He would not have taken it well. He cries.
And that is the end of Bruce Jenner. I don’t think he will bother dressing like a man anymore.
There’s only ONE full length mirror in the Jenner/Kardashian household? And KANYE WEST is a philosophical wizard king?
Seriously, great for Bruce. I work with several transgender activists, and this is such a brave thing.
The quote in the first hour summed it up well: sexual attraction is who you go to bed WITH, gender identity is who you go to bed AS.
I thought that the whole “only one full length mirror in the house” thing was hysterical. That explains a lot of Kris’ wardrobe choices.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
That WAS SO FUNNY ! I just finished watching and I am left with something from the very beginning and the very end. To start with Bruce reminds us that we must see the humor in it all…and in ourselves. I’ve always maintained how laughter is the best medicine. I know that without it, I would not have made it through some extremely trying times in my life. So yes, the full length mirror comment was the best. And at the very end, Diane asked “her” to complete the sentence….when you think of me, please be…..She answered….open minded. At the same moment I answered…..kind. Please people….be kind. Bruce Jenner deserves another gold metal. For bravery. Godspeed Bruce.
I was really moved by this interview. I felt compassion for him for having to hide who he/she really is for so long and for his bravery in discussing it in such a public way. I was surprised that aside from his biological children and 2 of his ex-wives that Kim was the most understanding and that Khloe was the least. I expected the reverse for some reason. I was not surprised by Kris’s “No comment” since she probably resents that she won’t be making any money off of Bruce’s interview or new reality show. Her ego is way too big to allow for someone else’s journey not to be all about her. I remember watching Brice win his Olympic gold medal and I will never forget how he was marginalized on “Keeping Up With The Kardashians” as a person. Diane Sawyer did a great job and I felt that he was honest even though it was apparent that the interview was very difficult for him. I am still confused about the sexual orientation/gender thing and I still don’t understand every aspect of this process but I admire Bruce for coming forward and sharing this with everyone. I hope that he is treated with kindness and tolerance and I wish him the best. He waited a long time to live the way he was meant to live and I hope that every aspect of his future is filled with love and happiness. I cried when I heard his son (Brandon) discuss his father and how much support he is giving him and realized that Bruce was a wonderful dad to have raised such loyal kids who support his choices. That’s all a parent could ask for. It was an interesting two hours and this recap was very well written.
Great job Tamara! I’ve not watched it yet but you did a good job of expressing his emotions! I actually teared up! So happy for him!
That’s so funny-I thought the same thing. Great minds think a like, I suppose. I was re-capping the show for my totally disinterested husband and the first thing I told him was about the mirror.
Wow.
I guess it’s time to change the pronoun since it’s clear Bruce sees herself as a woman. I’m really impressed the Kardashian girls responded well. Perhaps they are nicer people than we suspect. Also, was there any mention of Robert’s reaction? Bruce is the only father he’s known.
No. I think everyone is going out of their way to NOT mention Rob.
You can do porn and drugs, cause traffic deaths, allow statutory rape, etc but don’t you DARE get fat. That’s unforgivable.
Twilly, I’m pretty sure that the main issues with Rob involve drug addiction, but I agree with what you said too.
Actually, at the beginning of the interview he said he still prefers everyone to refer to him with male pronouns. Him/ he. (Even though he refers to himself as her).
I’m guessing until his SRS and then he will be she.
What a great interview. You have to love and admire the courage it takes for a 65 year old to finally face their own truth.
Go Bruce!
Wow. Now that you mention it… Rob was not mentioned at all. I wonder where they locked him up?
I worry about Rob.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Me too. I always had a crush on him. 🙁
I also worry about Rob. He’s not doing too good.
I do, too.
Tiffany, Robert Kardashian Sr died when Rob Jr. was 16 years old, so he did know his father.
I think it says a lot about their love for their father. I watched the show the first season then dropped out but as I recall Bruce didn’t have a type 9-5 job and he seemed to spend a lot of time with the girls.
I watched 3 shows on Demand last night instead of sleeping like a normal person. You know how every first scene of Kim Zolciak’s show used to start with the babies? Every episode of this show that I saw began with making fun of Bruce.
Then I was treated to an hour long episode where Kim K tries to convince us that the reason she is going to use a surrogate for the rest of her kids is because she has a medical condition. But she really really really wishes she could carry another baby. She HATED being pregnant and has no intention of carrying another baby.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
He seems very happy. I’m happy for him.
She. Her.
Sorry. I’m not doing it on purpose.
Cher? 🙂
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I’ll reiterate Pip’s comment above:
Actually, at the beginning of the interview he said he still prefers everyone to refer to him with male pronouns. Him/ he. (Even though he refers to himself as her).
So: he/him/his. But thanks for being the PC Police.
Was it the crying or the mention that he is lonely or the suicidal ideation that gave you that impression?
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
No, I just thought whenever he talked about Her he had a happiness about him that has not often been seen. At the end when he was showing Diane her closet and the dress she’d wear to dinner, it was very sweet and he seemed truly happy.
I love how the whole interview took a turn when Bruce came out…as a republican!! Hahaha, go Bruce! But overall I thought it was a good interview, I didn’t feel like it was scripted or that he had any ulterior motives. He seemed genuine. I was surprised that he started his initial transition in the 80s and that all the wives had a clear knowledge yet kept their mouths shut.
Given my loathing of the Kartrashians there is a part of me that wished he had done this way back in season one so we would never have had to hear about them again…but at least he made money to be able to do it now.
BeetsWhy, my favorite part of the whole interview, was the look on Dianne Sawyer’s face when Bruce came out as a conservative!!!!!!! Priceless!!!
Well he’s always had plenty of money. It has never been a financial issue. He had Kardashian money before the Kardashians were even on the map, he just didn’t spend it as frivolously as they did.
HIS money and fame is why Kris married him in the first place, crossdressing and all.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Bruce did say that after his 2nd divorce & before he met Kris that his finances were dwindling & he was depressed about his identity. I got the impression he had some financial struggles for a period in his life after his success.
Exactly. By Kardashian money I only mean he had that kind of money back in the 80’s. I’m going to break a rule here but a few years ago I did read that Bruce’s net worth was over 100 million where Kris’s was about 25 million. To us thousandaires, we can’t even fathom 1 million but in their world he is significantly more wealthy than the K’s.
Urethra, financial struggles for a multimillionaire are not on our scale of “dwindling finances.” Trust and believe his finances might have been dwindling but not to the point he could afford surgeries. People who make $30,000 a year manage to get cosmetic surgeries. Bruce just simply wasn’t ready to reveal his true self as a her yet.
Season 1 Kardashian show it was stated that Bruce went Robert K. and told him he would take over the financial responsibility of Kris if Robert would allow the divorce to go through. Robert and Kris were in a divorce fight over money.
Bruce had money and fame. Kris helped make more with the commercials she got for him.
OMG I hope TT doesn’t yell at me over this reference. Sh*t!
He’s always seemed genuine to me when I’ve watched KUWTHK. Yes… I admit I sometimes (always) watch it. Bruce always seemed like a doting father who just wants more time with his kids and he always seemed super generous, though maybe not so good with money. I remember he used to be a motivational speaker- I wonder if he will go back to that at all? I think he is a lovely speaker. I’ve only heard nice things about him from anyone who has ever run into him on golf courses around Las Vegas. I really hope people are nice to him during his process!
Kim said on KUWTK’s a few weeks ago that Bruce was bankrupt and dead broke when he met Kris… Bruce isn’t good with money apparently.
a) You believe Kim? b) And if so, you believe that Kris would marry a broke man? c) Seriously?
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Lol and you believe that?
Bruce Jenner said he told Robert Kardashian not to worry about money, he would take responsibility for Kris and children. The story he was broke is a storyline
yeah I might be known to be nieve lol
Haha that was hysterical. Diane Sawyers reaction like she tasted something bad ” Your’e a Republican?” (snarl) So funny.
I agree!! I don’t know who his first wife was. But, I have so much respect for her and Linda Thomson for not telling. Really, that might reflect on Bruce too. They had to respect and care for him even though the marriage didn’t work. Bruce and his ex-wives can show a lot of divorced people how to behave after marriage.
I am not sure what to think about Kris. How did the trach shave get leaked? If it wasn’t by one of the Ks I see them in a better light also.
Hilarious that Bruce came out as a republican.
The tracheal shave was ALLEGEDLY leaked by the Dr Office. I highly doubt he told the Kartrashians.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Good for him, he doesn’t have to live in the shadow of that family again. Wow Bruce said that he had the story of all stories.
This was deep.
I kept waiting for him to be asked why he still wears his wedding ring.
I think what he had to say about Kris provides further proof of how fake she is…..sounded like she would have been just fine continuing on as if this didn’t exist. How selfish can a person be? Geez!
And Kim is just worried that he’s stylish and represents the family well.
I know, that said everything about her. But he found humor in it so, more power to him!
Wow. This was so emotional! I came away being really impressed with Bruce. I wish her ALL the happiness!
So Kanye is at least the very least bi right? Maybe that is why he empathizes well with Bruce. Did they discuss a new name for Bruce? Or will she keep her original name? It doesn’t sound feminine, but it must be hard to just ditch your birth name for transgender people.
He said he didn’t want to say yet because the media would go nuts.
Awesome. I love Natalia, and Cloe.
Can’t wait to see what she’s chosen.
One of my friends told me his new name will be “Belinda.” He is in the community but we shall see if that is right.
Is your friend Wendy Williams who had some pretty nasty things to say while she was calling him that?
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Bruce is a he. A male he has been masquerading as all his life. A façade . “SHE” has a name already but much to the chagrin of MixedUpChile has opted to keep that private. He says it would just be all over the media and he would like to keep that for herself as long as possible. He may disclose it in a year after she gets her tatas. I’m sure TMZ will continue to out every little thing.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Good for her. I hope she feels relief after the interview aired and not regret.
one of my guy friend’s told me that who said he has a friend in New York. I hope it isn’t Wendy Williams. I’m not a fan of hers at all!
Wow, that sounds like a very credible source that you should be using as fact in comments all over the Internet!
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
As for Kanye. He’s gay. With a big ole Barbie to play dress up with. And wanted babies. Allegedly. In my opinion.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I thought that was likely too. For some reason awhile back I thought he had a bf who travelled with him. He was referred to as an assistant or fashion consultant. I can’t remember but it was before his douchebaggery level grew exponentially.
Oh, I hope not. I don’t know anyone who is gay who wants him on our team. Bleccch…
Kanye has a “special male friend” who is a designer in Paris for some fashion house. I don’t give him enough thought to retain the particulars.
I fucking hate that the fame whore ego maniac’s name, KW, even has to be mentioned or discussed at all in relation to Bruce Jenner.
I absolutely cringed when KW’s name was mentioned / discussed.
Oh without a doubt. They’re relationship is creepy.
I agree, UF. Let Bruce have the spotlight, for once. Why do the others always have to make everything about them?
Unfortunately it was Bruce that brought KW into the conversation. It was a fascinating interview but personally that was the only yuck factor.
The one I’ve always heard was LL Cool J. And, yeah, Kanye has a vibe.
P.S. Really excellent recapping, Tamara.
Yes…I agree! Thanks as always TT 🙂
Thanks. There was a lot more to it than I thought there would be. I was expecting a lot of fluff in between. There were very few commericials and it was all hard hitting.
Nightline is coming on now, and it is all about the interview.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
It certainly was different from recapping a Bravo show, wasnt it?
I’m truly happy for her
She looked much better than she has in years. it might just bee happiness, but I thought her skin looked great. She looks much better than when she was a mature, “heterosexual male” trying to look young. Now she can really get her hair done, wear makeup and flattering clothes, and not have to be constantly belittled and berated by Kris.
Diane Sawyer did a great job of not trying to sensationalize this interview. She respected his true emotional moments and didn’t try to elicit tears. I love that they didn’t make it about sex or genitals. Good for him for shutting down the tabloid speculation by deciding to tell his story his way.
The close up pictures that TT used, wow, I can really see Kylie and Kendall in her face.
I think that’s because they all go to the same plastic surgeon!
Well he may not need that much facial surgery after hormones softens his face. His bone structure is good. I just hope he doesn’t over do it. I want her to look fabulous when she’s done. The wait has been too long.
Yeah, that constitutional republican thing confused many a liberal! lol
I think I despise Kris even more now. She knew going into her relationship with “She”. Why is Kris acting so, I don’t know the right word, offended?
Kris has sold her soul. She probably only cared about what the revelation would do to the brand. She tweeted something nice once she saw the outpouring of love for Bruce. Then Khloe and Kourtney followed suit. Kim, the famewhore, has an interview on Monday to share her thoughts. I think it said a lot about the Jenner kids that they accepted & supported their dad from the start and I love his mom. That video made me cry.
Bruce is a kind and wonderful person and I wish him all the happiness in the world. I hope he does take this up as a cause because he is so loved and respected that just by living his life, he will help open people’s minds. Big hugs to Bruce.
Kim seriously has an interview to talk about it? Please no one watch/read that. if that is true it’s quite exploitive
I think some of Bruces kids will be on GMA on Monday. I could have sworn Kim was going to be on TODAY.
They may have been contractually obligated (the Kards) to be on an NBCu affiliate so it may be a Jenner Kardashian ratings battle Monday Morning.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
YEP! If you check out my twitter TL I retweeted a bunch of tweets. Kris and the Kardashian clan all refused to comment on the show. ALL his other kids and wives were there supporting him.
NOW all of the sudden they have gotten a script from Kris “they are proud, or he is their hero.”
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:16 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
She knew he liked to play dress up. BUT IT WAS BRUCE JENNER! I don’t think she saw all of this coming.
Nightline just explained that Bruce says for them to use the male pronoun for him until he transitions. Which is what I did.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
You’re so right. I refuse to believe for a second that Kris had no idea Bruce was possibly a woman. She knew but his money kept her around. Thats how this family usually operates.
As usual, you nailed it TT. Kris knew and didnt care and had him supress it until he couldnt anymore. Very shitty of Kim and the Kartrashians to not comment until they stuck their finger out to see which way the wind was blowing.
Bruce raised them as his own from the time they were toddlers. According to Kris herself, when Robert was haggling over the amount of child support during the divorce, Bruce said to just settle for divorce and he would accept ALL financial responsibility. Not many guys would have done that. Kris is a piece of crap.
I saw above that someone said she wouldn’t make money off him anymore. Is she still his manager? I think if she is she will be making money hand over fist. There will be plenty of organizations wanting him to come and speak at their institutions etc. Don’t you think? Also, do you think this is one of the reasons Rob is struggling? I don’t mean the transgender so much as him viewing as the loss of another Dad?
@Sunday, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Rob and Khloe are having a harder time because it could feel like losing another Dad.
Does anyone think that when Kris was throwing around the idea to change her name back to Kardashian, that a) Bruce had already decided to transition or b) that i was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Bruce? After all the years of marriage Kris was so callous about her last name, that maybe Bruce was well FU it’s time to be who I really am.
I think Kris is offended, because it’s not about her, or Kim, for once.
I despise the Kardashians (I don’t even like typing the name) but wasn’t it Bruce who said it was him that decided to stop his transition? Part of me can understand why Kris is angry. She entered a marriage with a man who wasn’t placing his transition on the back burner but had decided not to go through with it. He then changed his mind. I’m thrilled for him, that he can now live his life out as his true self, but I can see how she feels betrayed.
I kind of felt that way too. By the by I feel the same way about them. On the other hand before they were married she knew. He said he had breasts and had to tell her and she was ok with it. I am sure she knew he was dressing in fact he mentioned that she would tell him to change his clothes. I can’t help but think everything this woman does is driven by money and greed. He said they would probably be together still if she was ok with him changing gender. I can see where that would be too much for her but at the same time I think she is so controlling and so manipulative there is no way she wasn’t aware this whole time.
I imagine Kris feels she was extremely sensitive to his issues (much more than most women would be) but it’s like since Bruce was lying to himself he was not being truthful with her – therefore she’s angry / she feels betrayed. I’m sure if there were absolute honesty all around things would’ve ended differently.
As I wrote a few minutes ago, I’ve been personally involved in such a situation but the man was 100% honest & though they are living apart they are best friends/soul mates & as far as I know still married.
Guess what I’m trying to say is if you’re that accepting & keeping your husband’s greatest secret, you would definitely be furious (or hurt) if your spouse kept this from you. You accept → “I was once transitioning but I’ve decided to stop, I love you, let’s get married & have children & instead I’m just to cross dress” — then years into the marriage you realize he’s been lying to himself, therefore you.
I imagine Kris may be more angry at herself than at Bruce. She probably feels like a fool for believing him but she needs to realize that Bruce himself was confused & I believe he still is. Last night he stated he’s 100% heterosexual & has no desire to be with a man & is definitely not a lesbian but at the same time he says he enjoys sex (with his penis I would imagine) but wants to transition into a female! Maybe someone here can clarify that one!
She’s afraid it will negatively impact their money making. That’s all Kris cares about.
You are going to think I am crazy but when Diane was talking to him about filming KKK and he said (paraphrasing) “I was the one with the one true story”. I thought oh boy KJ is going to love that. Sometimes how the truth seeps out. I can’t imagine how tortured he must have been because he always seemed to be an honest person, voice of reason, not as caught up in all the crap fest that is KJ. He has a long road ahead it seems. Peace of heart to him.
To me, when he said that, I felt like he was SO JEALOUS that all the other girls got to be girls and get all the attention and he could not.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Yes I caught that Sunday! I bet KJ is fuming!
I commend Bruce Jenner for his courage, bravery in being honest about who he is. Thanks for recapping
The E! news recap said at this point Bruce has not requested to be called female pronouns yet nor has he given a name other than Bruce to be called and when he’s ready he will let us know.
I can confirm that was said on E! that he still wished to be called make pronouns
Again. Bruce Jenner is male. The true identity who has been living as Bruce is female. Once Bruce transitions to “her” (he indicated for her that meant some more facial surgery and boobs) then Bruce no longer exists.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I know this very well TT. I’ve had many experiences in the transgender community. I was stating that for everyone else who was calling him “her” that up to this point he would like us to still use male pronouns. That’s not something I ever thought I would have to educate you on, although I’ve been shocked at the number of people who seriously didn’t know sexuality doesn’t make you want to suddenly change your whole persona & being a transgender doesn’t mean you’re going to suddenly start liking men when you’ve loved women all your life. I also commented early on before everyone started really chatting, then I fell asleep. I got woken up by drunk friends to come be their cab so I’m home now & I see it’s been brought up several times above. I’m going to go read them now! My heart has been so full seeing people rally together in support of Bruce instead of acting disgusted. I think his revelation and the way he chose to go about it will change the way people all over the world think about the transgender community. If he reached just one radical Christian/Conservative/Muslim, and changed their thought process it would be enough. Baby steps. I started reading Trans-sister Radio last summer and didn’t finish cause I got distracted. I think I shall start reading it again.
I am very confused about the sexual orientation and gender transition part of this. Wouldn’t the female hormones make you want to desire what a woman usually desires? Would he be a Lesbian if he still desires women sexually? Can someone explain this. I know that Bruce said that it’s “Apples and oranges” but I have never known a transgendered person (at least not one who identified that to me) so I am really confused. Kay, you seem to know a lot about this so could you help me to understand? Thanks. I love Bruce’s courage and really want to speak about this without sounding like an idiot. I want to do the entire transgender community justice by having the knowledge that I now lack when I converse about this process.
@calipatty – I appreciate that! I grew up in a very happy (non judging) Christian household. My dad is a pastor so expectations of me were high from all angles & according to every family member I wasn’t ever having any of it. Even as a young girl I had questions beyond my years about humanity. It just didn’t all seem like the answers all fit in one little box (or book)
@merilyn – I appreciate that! I grew up in a very happy (non judging) Christian household. My dad is a pastor so expectations of me were high from all angles & according to every family member or close friend I wasn’t ever having any of it. Even as a young girl I had questions beyond my years about humanity. It just didn’t seem like the answers all fit in one little box – or book. When my parents split up, church life was on the back burner & my dad decided to distance himself from that career in particular while he figured some things out. Amidst all of this both parents re-entered the musical theatre world, which is both of their passions and how they met. The Horne in the West production in Boone, NC actually if anyone around the area ever remembered it in the 80’s. Now we all know the theatre is the most welcoming of any group of people. I spent the first 10 years of my life in churches with congregations who adored my family & yet I never felt more comfortable & loved unconditionally than I did with the theatre group. My dad eventually rejoined the Church world but with a much different approach. He tries to preach about acceptance, he admits that there’s more to the story than just the Bible. I didn’t have much of a relationship with him for several years though, he was depressed and distant. I lost him for a long time and the gay men in my mom’s life basically raised me through the most troubling and awkward of years. (11-14 is BRUTAL as a teenage girl, ugh remember?) they taught me confidence, they taught me how to l”read” people – though that’s not what we called it back then. They taught me to be the snarkiest, mouthiest little thing, they took me shopping, they chatted with me on the phone after my mom & I would get in a fight. Most importantly of all though, they taught me from a young age that humans and our desires come in all different forms. Just because a man is attracted to other men doesn’t mean he wants to be a girl. It also doesn’t mean he wants his partner to act like a girl. When a man is attracted to another man – then he obviously wants a man There are all different sides to this. Transgender was another animal, but the same thought process is in place. I am sure if Bruce was attracted to men it would have made life a lot easier to just come out of the closet. It would have been difficult, but nothing in comparison to admitting to the world that he wants to BE a woman. I have a hard time that he says he was born a woman because, sorry, woman means you were born with a vagina. He will never experience periods, girl puberty and the horrors of the first years of having your period, the terrifying time you lost your virginity. I can, however, appreciate the fact that he’s always felt uncomfortable in his male body. If he has always wanted to be able to dress and act as a woman, there’s nothing wrong with that. We are very sexual creatures, most people are not going to spend the majority of their lives marrying and having sex with someone they aren’t attracted to. Not every female with all the correct hormones desires a male. I’m not a medical expert but a hormone shift would not cause you to change you sexual preference. He was on hormones for 5 years when he met Kris & he seemed to enjoy his sex life with women just fine. He will indeed be a lesbian once his transformation is complete because at that point he will no longer be a “he” & will be identifying as a woman. Out of curiousity I watched the movie TransAmerica by myself when I was around 15. My mom has been the one who has sent books like Trans-sister Radio. The important thing to understand when it comes to confusion over gender or sexuality is that everyone has their own story & no two stories are alike. You can’t fit people into a box. You can’t define a person based on who they are when they’re alone with themselves. That is the one thing no one can take away from us. No one can be defined. Gender is definitive by nature, but as a commenter is one of these threads said..The heart just wants what it wants.
To ADMIN/TT can you delete the first comment? I hit something on my phone accidentally and it sent before I was finished
Ok, I have a sincere question that I hope someone from the LGBT community would answer for me. Is someone who is transsexual also transgender? And are “Drag Queens” strictly performance artists? Meaning they are gay but are not necessarily transgender. It’s an art form that arose out of LGBT community. No offense but sometimes some of the terms get confusing.
My fiance is transgender. Transexual and Transgender are the same and yes, drag queens are 99% of the time performance artists. IMO Drag Queens really put out a negative stereotype for the transgender community..I know a lot of transgender people who do not like Rou Paul because of this. Like said in the interview, crossing dressing (aka drag queens) is different from being transgender.
I view drag as performance art. I was just making sure I understood. The he/she pronouns get confusing. Cross dressing and transsexuality is really where I get confused.
Oh THIS WEEK transgender and transsexual are the same thing. Before the LGBTQRSTEIFUOSNFSLKDFJD crowd went nutso with all the bazillian labels, gender non-conformist being the latest, a transgender person was a person who had not gone through a SRS and an transsexual has.
The LGBT community has been undergoing a labeling crisis for way too long. It’s like The NAACP and the issues they had when black folks didn’t want to be colored people anymore and wanted to be African-American and then People of Color and finally back to black.
The LGBT activists need to stop advocating for labels and word restrictions (sex change is not acceptable anymore) and everyone just needs to be fucking people.
We’re all just people trying to survive and thrive for a short time on this earth regardless of sex, race, religion, national origin, eye color, sexual orientation, mood, life experiences, health, pedigree, or whatever.
We’re just people. Except for Damn Yankees. 🙂
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Something like that happened in Melbourne. We just insert Queer into LGBTQ now. It is like a catchall for all the smaller groups. Everyone seems to be happy now.
Yes because if someone self identifies as “queer” to the masses, it TOTALLY means something more that “gay.”
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I am with TTs breakdown of terms below, if I don’t know your name or chosen gender I’m gonna go with a general “Hey you, how YOU doin’?” until I know for sure
TT to me you are a big Queer, and I love you for it.
love you more. You make my life better.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 2:18 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
The Q in LGBTQ here typically stands for questioning and fits all people who aren’t really sure where they fall on the spectrum.
TT,
All the labels, you got it right. We Damn Yankees live in a world of our own. Even if we reside south of the Mason Dixon Line. We , fortunately have no need to advocate for labels..
I am also relieved that labels abound for the Jew in me. There are many. Mostly unpleasant. And life continues to roll on.
Llll
On another note, I appreciated .Bruce’s interview . He came out and told his story and I thought it was well done and at the right time for him.
I hope the time comes soon that She feels the time is right for Her. After such a long time I think she receives the respect she has earned.
One more thing relating to a comment up there^^^^ somewhere. Bruce said he had gone through hormone therapy for 5 years and quit. He explained that Kris new about his issues when they had met and she started dating and his 36 B .she didn’t care then, she shouldn’t care now, she might have blown another good payday had they stayed married. The public perception of her might have changed as well.
I think KrisJ will be sincerely disturbed that he will be making tht does not agendago into the Kardashian Machine. I’m sure she had some ,type of agenda to introduce the real Bruce but he has his own agenda and would never allow her to represent him or manage him.
This new life story will be his. He
Said last night that KUWTK show hid the real story. He had it aall along. That had to rile KJ up just a wee bit..
My eyes leaked a couple of times last night. I hope going forward he finds what he’s been needing, craving for decades. He could be a great advocate for the LGBTQ and help to demonstrate that they are really to be admired for coming out and trying to explain their dilemma
Trying to hit the sack early. This was a terrific recap of The Imterview. I applaud you for all the work you do and usually have the recap up before anyone else, now I will stand down and read all the rest of the comments above
Damn Yankish
I can try?
Drag queen – performers.
Transexual – disagree with their gender and usually use hormones etc to transition genders.
Transgender – its complicated. More of an umbrella term. Focuses on the mind more than the body. Includes androgynous, nongendered people, multigendered Etc. It’s so complicated.
One of the great things I learned from Drag Queens is the fluidity of he/she pronouns. As a general rule, you use “he” when they’re dressed as men & “she” when they’re dressed as women. But in some circumstance it’s ok to call a Drag Queen out of drag “she”. And occasionally they use “she” for out of drag & “he” for in drag as an insult (I can’t but they can). Ultimately it shows that gender is a construct & people are just people. Some of us just dress in a lot more sequins than others…
In my close circle of gay friends we mish mash our pronouns with each other all the time with zero offense. Some gay guys don’t like it, but to me it’s all in context.
So brave. I hope the paparazzi tire of this soon and leave him in peace.
Tamara- thank you so much for recapping this. You really are the best recapper out there.
I thought the interview was poignant, thought provoking (I am still thinking about it), and truthful.
I think Bruce Jenner is a hero and hopefully this will be answer some questions for my Mom and other people who “just don’t get it” (God Bless ya, Mom… Keep trying!). I also have very strong opinions about Kris Jenner, but I will refrain. They aren’t nice.
Thank you, Tamara!!
It’s a lot to wrap our little minds around
Will he dress age appropriate, or will he be walking around in see through Pierre Balmain? When he said that Kim said, “Girl, I’m going to have to style you” I thought, Oh God. Please don’t. The Kartrashians will find some way to make money from this.
Fortunately he said he’ll be dressing conservatively like the Jenner women but it sounds like Kim would prefer he dress like a Kartrashian. For his sake I hope he doesn’t take her advice.
Pip, I love this post. I am a “mom” too and I hope that she “keeps trying” for you and for her. I also think that we may share our opinions about KJ. I shall refrain as well……
Merilyn-
I think most people are inclined to need to pick this apart piece by piece to get a better understanding and a grasp on it (especially those of my Mother’s generation- she was born in the late 30’s.)
It may make no more sense to me than:
– why does grass turn green?
– why do I get anxiety sometimes out of the blue?
– why do serial killers kill?
– why does my beagle mutt eat her own poo?
The key for me is that even if I don’t get it (and why would I? I haven’t lived it), It’s just kind of in my nature to empathize, love and accept… Regardless.
Now let’s all hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”. 🙂
Afterthought:
The serial killer anology- definitely not the best example?!! But you know what I mean. 🙂
Kris J had stated that she would be filing an injunction against the show unless SHE was given an advance copy and approved it. SHE is worried about how this would reflect on herself and her “LOVING” marriage. If I had to guess, I would say that Diane Sawyer has little to no regard or respect for her. It takes a HUGE pair for Kris to believe that the world revolves around her and that ABC would cave to her selfish demands. From earlier press, the family (excluding Kris and Rob) were expected to be with Bruce during the show. I hope that is true – Bruce spent TOO many years being the whippin’ boy for that family. A few years ago, Kris broached changing her name back to Kardashian because that’s what her daughters were known as (prior to Kendall and Kylie becomingmajor contributors to the circus). Kloe and Kim both launched into her for being so extremely rude and disrespectful and that she had not been a Kardashian for more than twenty years… She really is a piece of work!
I wish we could stop talking about the Kardashian klan for a little while and focus on what just happened in America with that interview last night. I woke up this morning to texts from one of my gay friends who has been dating transgender boys. Last year when he admitted to our circle of friends that he was interested in a transgender male, I was the only supportive and understanding one. He was basically shunned by the girls & they even went so far as to steal his phone and go through it in class, find one reason to dislike me and ran with it. This is 2 women who are in their mid-late 20’s like me. I made up with them later but I was so disgusted by their behavior I had no interest in being friends with them. I hope they watched last night & have a better understanding. I hope my conservative grandparents who own half of Mississippi & used to tell me I “ought not watch things that promote homosexuality” when I was minding my own business watching Will & Grace caught parts of it and saw the true pain and conflict in Bruce’s eyes. This is a very real thing, and if anyone thinks Bruce is putting himself through this as a mere choice is the sick one, not Bruce.
@Kay, when I learned that some people prefered to be sexual with their same sex and others hated them for it, I was confused. I still am.
Why is it my concern who someone loves or sleeps with?
How can others hate for this reason?
If a person is transgender why is this my business to judge?
The way people concern themselves and hate based on sexual preference or gender has always confused me.
I’m not a fruit loop, I get it, I know it is fear and hate.
I simply don’t know how people can continue being stupid and cruel.
I wonder if Kris is more upset that Bruce chose to announce this on his own terms instead of making it a part of the show so Kris can make money off it. Come on, I don’t believe for a second Kris wasn’t aware of this and now she’s having a hard time with it? No it’s all and only about making money off each one in that family and Bruce wouldn’t let her profit off his struggles with this, if so Good for Bruce!
This. And the mother was adorable. Huge dentures and all. He is so lucky that he still has his Mother with him. His sister was nice, too.
His mothers resonance made me cry, I would hope that would be my reaction. Great interview and thank you for the blog
Such a fabulous recap, Tamara. Thank you. As for Bruce, I wish him well. I hope he lives a long time as a happy, lovely she after he transitions and gets to have the life he wanted. As to names, I am fond of “Jennifer.” That’s my name, and I’d be happy to share it with him when he is ready to be “her.”
<3
I think it should be a B name and predict it will be.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I know a woman (who was born a biological woman) whose name is Brucilla. I never liked that name so hopefully he’ll choose something better.
I keep thinking Bella.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I have no idea why, but I think it will be Bridgette.
Bella is a nice name. I like Briana and Bailey.
I’m thinking Belinda, because it’s a combo of Bruce and Linda, and I believe that Linda Thompson was Bruce’s idea of the “ideal” woman.
I feel like it will be a more grown up B name, not something cutesy like Bella or Briana. I’m thinking maybe something more classic like Beverly, Barbara, Brenda, Brooke.. who knows though. I actually look forward to seeing what he chose.
I support Bruce and whatever decision he makes for himself. It’s his life, and he has a right to live it as he sees fit. I think it’s extremely courageous of him to share his story. Good for you, Bruce!
Did anyone watch the Amazon Prime show “Transparent” about a man in his 60’s who finally decided to transition? It showed his journey from hiding it during his marriage to living as a woman. You also see his children’s, friend’s & ex-wife’s reactions & journey with him. Jeffrey Tambor did an amazing job as Maura (George Bluth who?). Also, they were super jewishy so any of my fellow chosen people out there will find some jokes that really hit home. Highly recommended!
I loved that show!
I’ve really wanted to watch this––the interviews I’ve seen with cast and creator/writer(?) were so smart and made me expect that the show would be witty and I could learn something. Have to remember to get on that …
spk-
Get on it TODAY! Ten episodes… Thirty minutes each. If you are anything like me, you can do that standing on your head. You will whip through them. It was probably my favorite show of 2014.
Really good show. It was picked up for another season 🙂
The interview deeply affected me, I respect Bruce so much.
Near the end of the interview he looked happy and relaxed.
Bruce motivated me to make a change I ve been dreaming of for years.
I thought it was to late.
I have heard he has chosen a B name. I won’t repeat it. I am interested to see if it pans out, or is just BS.
Belinda
tb, that was exactly the name I thought. Either that or Bri (short for Brianna).
This was really interesting & touching, in a way I wouldn’t have predicted. Thanks for the detailed recaps Tamara. And for “hosting”. I couldn’t wait to read what other peoples reactions were to Bruce. He was attractive to many of us but funnily, I never thought of him as masculine. Muscled and handsome. But for whatever reason, not masculine. Maybe because as a kid, I associated masculine with a more misogynistic slant.
I loved his humor and apparent openness. However, when he does fully transition, he’s going to have to learn a new way to sit on a couch! He won’t get away with that spread-eagle position anymore!
I had that same thought…he will need to unlearn the more male (manspreading) sitting positions. As for the interview, I was very moved and hope he finds the peace and happiness he is seeking as he continues his transition to her.
I am anxious to see what plastic surgery he does on his face. I got the implication that is in the future plan. I think he is pretty now.
This brought back the emotions I experienced when my brother came out. I was in jr high. Abject fear (Matthew Sheppard had happened), sadness that MY relationship with him might change (it didn’t),curiosity. My parents’ mourning (of thwarted expectations, I guess), expressed so differently – Mama going to bed for two days and Daddy stony silent. It was like a death had occurred. Many years have passed and w love my brothers’ husband and their fur kids like our own. Even my parents who are mid 80s act “normal” toward them. Praying the passage of time will heal Bruce and his loved ones. Now, PC police, I’m not saying it’s the same thing, just that it took me back. Tears falling. Thanks for opportunity to share.
I like the simplicity of Bree. But then there are cheese connotations. Cheesy Kardashians.
If anyone stumbles across the interview on youtube, shout out, is kids Down Under would like to watch it!
My favorite tweet on the subject: “Bruce Jenner is the only Kardashian woman I can tolerate.”
Hahaha I love that! So true, and we finally get a Kardashian that women can look up to
Ohh that’s a perfect one! Love It – thanks for posting it.
thank you for recapping Ms. Tattles!
For those who missed the interview there is an 84 min link in youtube which looks like the full interview. See it now before ABC pulls it for copyright infringement. (I saw a post from someone down under looking for it).
Maybe the lovely, supportive Kim can explain during her upcoming interview why she tried to pressure Bruce to cut his long hair off? She felt the look wasn’t appropriate for the overall style of the wedding. Or, she was concerned about the photo album? I don’t usually watch the reality show, but I tuned in to check out the wedding.
I’m happy for Bruce. I hope he continues to manage his life on his terms.
I think that was all before she had her breakthrough. She wasn’t on board until KW made her see the “light of day”.
@TT omw Except for the Yankees! LOVE IT!!!!!!
I think his name should be Brice or Bryce
So another guy’s name?
guy names on girls is hot!
I wonder if she’ll get a butt implant and date only black women (ha ha)
so I have a couple of questions for women on this site.
1. What do you think he means by “I have always had the soul of a woman?”
2. Are you concerned about the trend in gender identification? For example: If a man (with a penis) can say he is a woman, what does that mean for actual women? Do you think that someone who is socialized as a man (as Bruce clearly was), really understands what it means to be a woman?
3. Are you concerned with how far the trans community is taking their demands for acceptance? Some of you are very likely the victims of sexual harassment or worse. Is it ok with you that a guy with a dick who says he “feels like a woman” can use the ladies room (bathrooms and gyms?). Bruce aside, would you be comfortable in a confined space with a 6’2″ person with a penis? Would you still be comfortable in that space knowing that trans women commit crimes at roughly the same rate as men? Would you be comfortable with your 12-year old daughter being alone naked or showering in a locker room with a 6’2″ man?
4. How do you feel about the trans community complaining about references to female anatomy as hateful because “not all women have vaginas” or “not all women” menstruate?
I think it’s great that Bruce is coming out and I also think it will do much to help discrimination against the trans community. I genuinely worry about the erasure of women, however, that is implicit in much of the trans agenda.
Discuss….
Re #3 – Like many others here I’ve traveled extensively & you quickly get used to sharing a bathroom with a strange man. I’ll admit the 1st time was a bit awkward with a man standing 3′ feet away at the urinal & then sharing the sink & small talk with him but my main concern was always the lack of toilet paper!
[If you ever plan on traveling abroad, be sure to always carry your own TP as many areas don’t use it at all & even some 4/5 star hotels expect ½ roll to accommodate 2+ people for an entire week (& if it doesn’t you’re considered a gluttonous American). Also if you use facecloths / washcloths – bring your own as many areas have never heard of them.] ☺
Many of my female friends regularly spend time in a confined space with 6’2″ persons with a penis. It’s called a tinder date.
I hope that when the evil trans community begin with the erasure of women, they start with you.
I do however agree that it is horrible when a powerful group like the trans community target a small minority group such as females /s.
Michael, you don’t know NAA so I find it distasteful of you to assume NAA’s gender with that nasty “erasure” comment. Perhaps you’re overly defensive for no reason?
🙂 Insider trading.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
@naa, Somehow I think I will still be able to sleep at night rest assured my identity as a woman will not suffer because society is accepting transgenders. Actually, my feminine soul which is inclined to nurture is repulsed when I see someone the object of discrimination and hatred. We are slowly but surely evolving to a race who love and accepts freely. There will always be those who are fearful of change and declare evil resides in these changes and we’ will lose a sense of who we are as a people, etc. Luckily, that close minded way of thinking is becoming more and more the minority….Thank God!
Sorry, I forgot one of my favorites.
5. You’re married to a man who transitions to a woman. You’re now a lesbian as far as the trans community is concerned. Are you obligated to stay with your transitioning spouse even if you’ve never been attracted to women?
Pffft…I can divorce my spouse if he farts too much for my liking and call it irreconcilable differences. WTF are you talking about. If a woman requires her husband to have a penis and identify as a man, so be it. If she’s cool with being married to a M2F transsexual so be it. What’s the problem?
Sorry, my bad. I forgot how slow the commenters here are.
Fuck off. Was that fast enough?
Or you could answer a couple of the questions if it wouldn’t tax your brain too significantly.
Gender has long been a tool of the patriarchy to subjugate women. And now you have men telling you how to be a woman. If that’s ok with you, fine, please continue the ‘hero’ worship.
Men have been telling us how to be women since time began…
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Yep. Exactly, which is how and why the whole concept of ‘gender’ exists. Because to be a woman you have to have (1) long hair, (2) painted nails, (3) high heels and (4) short shorts. Which is virtually how every single trans woman presents. Because that’s what a “real” woman is, nothing but a dude’s porn fantasy. Guess what, trans women are dudes.
*And yankees who move down south are Damn yankees not southerners no matter how long they stay here. But we still fuck em, marry em, invite them to our parties. Sure we poke fun at them from time to time, but we all manage to live in peace. *
*If a man wants to adopt the traits and mannerisms of a woman it is really none of my business or concern. *
*As for your position that they are really bad at trying to be female, yankees are really bad at trying to be southerners too. Can’t we just bless their hearts and go on about their business?*
*The less people we have who are in emotional turmoil, the safer I feel. *
*You, on the other hand are being outraged over “the destruction of women” or whatever on behalf of women. Meanwhile the women here, for the most part don’t seem to have a problem with it. Why is it so important for you to advocate for women so they don’t lose their womanhood? Gloria Steinem already took that from us in the 1970s. And most were convinced that feminism was a good thing. It’s all led us to here. It’s hard at this point to find a man who is committed to traditional gender roles. *
*Worrying about the loss of femininity is a lost cause at this point. Now, women need to assess the reality of where we are and move forward based on the fact we are smack in the middle of the 2010s and it (sadly) ain’t no Leave It To Beaver world anymore. *
*So my darling, naa,*
*We, the women of Tamara Tattles accept the fact that we had to sacrifice a whole Saturday in detention for whatever it was we did wrong, but we think you’re crazy to make us answer your numerous essay questions telling you who we think we are and who is and ain’t a woman. You see us as you want to see us. In the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions. But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain, and an athlete, and a basket case, a princess,and a criminal.Does that answer your question? *
*Sincerely yours,*
*The Tamara Tattles Breakfast Club*
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
“The less people we have who are in emotional turmoil, the safer I feel.”
I love you Tamara. If you had a literal dick, I’d fuck you. But, since you don’t, you can fuck my brain with your proverbial dick any time you want. >
OMG! Tamara!
The Breakfast Club essay… BRILLIANT!
You didn’t even have to sign it… I recognized it immediately! Seriously genius… And this is why we keep coming back! Love you, my friend!
Cat, you make me laugh!
Naa – I think these are excellent (tho’ not all terribly PC) questions. #2 was what came to mind for me during the interview.
It did make me “stop” when he kept suggesting he had the soul of a woman, as I have my own definition of what my soul of a woman means. If you look at most pics from childhood, I was a complete tomboy, while inside I had whackadoodle dreams of wearing a huge, ruffle-filled dress to elementary school recess and twirling for everyone’s entertainment.
If nothing else, Bruce’s openness might force some of these questions. Personally, I will mull them over because I have an inquiring mind and want to be accepting of personal choice. But a 6’2″ person, in the bathroom with me, with a penis? At least I KNOW his bits won’t like it if I give them a solid kick if something crazy happened. (I’m not trying to be trite and water-down your important questions.)
Thanks for answering and I absolutely appreciate that the questions are not PC.
As for Tamara’s response, such that is is. The trans community got a clinic in Texas to stop talking about abortions as a woman’s issue because not all women have ovaries. I’m actually not kidding. The “Vagina” monologues were stopped at Mt. Holyoke because they were trans exclusionary because “not all women have vaginas.” Keep in mind that the estimate is that about 3/4 of trans women still have their tackle, as it were.
I am fine with Bruce taking hormones and playing dress up to his precious little heart’s content. I hope he’s very happy. For real. He isn’t a woman.
Ugh. Who are you to decide what/who a woman is? I would be a lot more comfortable in a bathroom with a 6’2” woman with a dick than anywhere near you. Stop talking down to us. I don’t care about being PC but you’re being mean. >
Hmm. Those are fascinating anecdotes. Not amusing but entirely fascinating. In a “which way will this all go”. I’m totally surprised that the Monologues ceded to that.
Some stay with their husband who’s now a woman because they feel a strong emotional connection (soul mates / true love). It would be like now living with your BFF, your girlfriend who you can now share wardrobe & makeup tips (& more personal feelings). If you’re not personally attracted to females, the sex is over & you’d have a A-sexual relationship (just as many marriages do anyways) & for others I imagine they’d open their marriage up to date & finally get some after those years! I can see them staying up late (after their dates) giggling & discussing their experiences. Actually come to think of it, though Bruce said he enjoyed sex with his wives if I recall correctly he mentioned he’s now A-sexual. Whatever floats your boat. We all deserve happiness.
I had a friend in California who was like that. She was straight. Her husband, gay. But, they loved and supported each other. It worked for them. When the time came, and she wanted a baby, they adopted. Love is love, it is not about sex.
Often the best sex is with someone you don’t love. You’re able to get as wild & kinky as you want & don’t have to face them in the morning! It’s been awhile but I still remember! (◔◡◔) ☺
WHAT? That makes NO sense. Yes, love and sex are not the same. But a gay man doesn’t fall in love with a woman. If he did, he’d be straight. BECAUSE it’s not just a physical thing.
Personally I was referring to a husband & wife I know who specifically married hoping to change his sexual orientation. After 30yrs marriage & 4 children later they realized they couldn’t fight it – he transitioned & moved out but they remain married (stating they love each other & are “true soul mates”).
Then you have Bruce who’s transitioning because he has the “soul of a woman” but fell in love 3 times with women to the point of marrying them & having children . . . but he says he’s not a lesbian & loves to have sex but he’s still considering the full transition even though he has no desire to be with a man . . . & he considers himself 100% heterosexual & would still be with Kris if she accepted it!
I’m just trying to keep up with the confusion / trends! ☺
When a female goes through menopause, does she stop being a woman? No. When a woman gets a hysterectomy or mastectomy, does she stop being a woman? No. What is a woman, then?
{raises hand! raises hand!} I’ll answer this one! If my hubby transitioned to a woman, I would support him emotionally through his journey, but I would not stay married to him. While our sex life isn’t necessarily off the charts (as with any couple married nearly a decade), I would no longer be sexually attracted to him. I would continue to love his soul and would mourn the end of the relationship, but I would want to move on and would want him to do so as well. If that makes me “unsympathetic” or “unsupportive”, oh well. (It’s telling, isn’t it, that Kris tweeted that she watched the show last night with Bruce. They remain friends, even if the marriage is over — or, for the more cynical among us — business partners waiting to share the payout.)
Sorry this was supposed to post after NAA’s Question No. 5!
A guy I dated for many years (my 1st true love / the love of my life) was devastated & suicidal when his father transitioned. His biggest concern was future kids. What would they call him/her? How would he explain this was my dad but now he’s your grandmother!
I was very close to his wife who told me she always knew & they purposefully married because he thought he could change. Needless to say 30yrs into the marriage & 4 adult children later – like Bruce he had the soul of a woman. Also like Bruce (in his earlier years), he appeared to be 100% man (tall, strong & rugged the complete antithesis of a woman). Though they ended up living apart she fully supported him/her & told me they would never divorce, as they were best friends / soul mates.
We had planned on marrying & having a family, but during his father’s transition – it was his mother who worked diligently to break us apart. She adored me but couldn’t bear to have my ultra-conservative parents involved in “her mess”! We were both heartbroken & like a fool I allowed myself to be talked into marrying a man I didn’t love (which failed miserably). Though I was extremely fortunate & found true love again, I can’t help but wonder how my life would’ve ended up if she wasn’t so embarrassed. It’s been nearly 30yrs & I genuinely hope he (& his father) are happy.
What, you mean it’s not all roses and sunshine like last night’s show?!?!?!
naa, why does anyone in here owe a reply to you?
I found your questions moronic.
Of course you would.
naa, some of your questions may have merit, but your delivery leaves something to be desired. Do you actually want a discussion, or start a fight? I’m honestly unsure. My daughter is finishing her second year of law school, and we have had several conversations about what she sees and hears at school re the turn feminism has taken, i.e. the “let’s castrate all men” strain. I’ve been assuming that this was an exaggeration.
I didn’t watch. I didn’t read the blog or the comments. I just have to say two things.
1. that is one UGLY woman
2. He is an asshole. Being transgender does not automatically make him less of a shit person.
I will grant you that she is not an attractive woman. But I think this interview showed me that he was not an asshole. I had just assumed he was an asshole, because the couple of times I watched the show he was grumpy about being on a reality show. And he seemed to want to isolate himself from the Kartrashians and sort of be left alone, and I thought well, why are you on a reality show. Plus, a lot of things he would say came off as kinda stupid. But in the interview, I thought he showed that he is a really special person, and a very nice person. And an enlightened person. I loosened up my preconceived notions about transgenders. I understand it better.
He made me swoon as a young girl watching him during the Olympics. I wish grace and peace as her journey continues.
I did not think Bruce meant Khole did not understand but that she was struggling with the loss of Bruce. Khole will need time to understand Bruce is still there.
In a much smaller different way but Bruce and Khole are similar, khole has been on the outside looking in.
I was in pain watching Bruce, so brave.
Really good recap. So interesting I watched the interview and learned a lot. Perhaps NA should watch and learn
I hope TT will prettiest please ever recap that E! show of Bruce’s journey!
Tamara,
You come across as a conservative more than a liberal, with that said; you did a great job recapping this.
This is wonderful for him. Still don’t like Bruce because I think he was a terrible parent to his older children and didn’t put his foot down enough with the younger two. But I am happy for him in this area of his life.
Thanks for the great recap.
The interview was really emotional. I remember watching the ’76 Olympics with my father, cheering on Bruce in every event. It was like watching David vs Goliath, and David won! He was so handsome, and what young girl didn’t have a crush on him? (Okay, probably lots of guys too!)
I’ve only watched a few KUWTKardashian episodes, but one of the reasons I can’t stand that show is the way Bruce was treated and marginalized. Bruce was a national hero and worked off his ass for everything he achieved. Unlike the Soviet athletes, he had to work an actual job and crisscross the country attending events in order to raise funds to continue training and competing. Yet here were watching a group of little-talented women treat him like a joke. He always looked miserable and I couldn’t understand why he was putting up with it.
Listening to Bruce, I had a lot of confusion regarding his sexuality and questions regarding his future. In the end, it’s none of my business. I wish him the tranquil and happy life that has so far eluded him.
The Kanye stuff reminds me of The Soup’s “Unlikely Voice of Reason” segment. (“Stephanie Pratt: Unlikely Voice of Reason”).
Lord have mercy, what is really going on with Bruce? Is he also envious
Of the women in his life.
What is ‘really’ going on in his life, is that he is transgender. The argument that he is envious and chooses to be this way is stupid. The same when you apply the argument to gays. Why would any of us actively insert ourselves into a minority group that is regularly discriminated against and ridiculed if we were just a little green with envy? Such a dumb viewpoint.
POST DELETED PLEASE READ THE MOTHER FUCKING COMMENTING RULES>
So are GenderPronouns disagreement this month’s Sabbath Wedding disagreement? 🙂
and, yes, upthread I spoke too soon, and shouldn’t have corrected someone on pronouns.
As long as you are respectful I doubt Bruce gives a shit.
I used to know a young woman who was in a circle of people I had reason to associate with. She was married to a man who we would occasionally encounter. I am known for my impeccable gaydar with American males and several people asked me if I thought he was gay. It was pretty obvious. What they never asked that I also presumed that she was a lesbian. Shortly after they were married they started having babies. From my perspective they both wanted children and had an arrangement. This was before the “Gaybie Explosion” and it seemed to work well for them.
They were two of the happiest people, at least outwardly, I’d ever met. I guess my point is all relationships and marriages are not always what they appear to be.
Sidenote: When the female half of the couple sent out baby pictures, it was the ugliest baby I had ever seen in my entire life. I was grateful I received a photo by post because I am not good at hiding my reactions. Then about 10 months or a year later I actually see the kid. It was one of the most beautiful toddlers I’d ever seen. I could not believe it was the same kid.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I find it a little odd that Brandon and Brody are acting like they are just finding out about this now when their mom Linda said she told them about it when they were in there 20’s? She wrote a wonderful story about their journey/marriage.
Ke per,
Brandon did say last night that he knew ‘something was up’ when he was a teen . (I think this was when he stopped the estrogen therapy.
I think Brandon said that he was relieved when Bruce told him. He laughed and said I knew it. (Paraphrased.)
When his daughter was worried about losing her Dad Brice told her that will never happen. He will be there for her and the others, always. When she asked what she should call him, he said Dad. He’s always been there for her and that will never change.
He also added that his female brain was always a part of his parenting .
I’m raising my third cuppa know…To Bruce !
I’ve been thinking about this, and I feel manipulated! Bruce temps our curiosity and compassion with the sawyer interview… lastly showing us his divine cocktail dress to spark our interest in seeing her? then in summer “she’ll” (Bruce) will have her own reality series starting. He’s laughing all the way to the bank. And is bad as the Kardashians, sex tape, etc. he could have transformed off camera and would be respectable. Does anybody else
See this too.
Also… All the media leaks, it was all planed to get our (the sheep) interest, including the Adam’s apple shaving that Bruce was so upset about. I will not watch his reality series.
My husband agrees with you.
Wow. I’m am shocked that anyone could hear someone talking about their lowest point, where the contemplated suicide and come away from it with such a shitty attitude.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Why are we all feeling so sorry for Bruce? And. calling him a hero for coming out? Has he ever had a Job since his Olympic era? NO! He’s lived off his fame, then the Kardashians selling their soul. Bruce lives in MALIBU, the of the most expensive real-estate areas in the USA, he has so many big boy toys $$, and lives a very privileged lifestyle. He was just in an accident that KILLED someone, and we’re sobbing for him? If you read his second wife’s blog, Bruce had no contact (Xmas bday, school reports, etc) with his Sons for several years… I think Bruce is suffering from arrested development (he sounded much like the stereotypical valley girl in the way he spoke in interview) from a life time of off the charts indulgence and excess. I’m all for transgenders 100%, Bruce is making mad bank from our oohs and ahhs. Come on people
Bruce’s whole affect is strange, or as my husband says, ‘weird’.
Blame it on the Botox.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
For me, he’s a hero for coming out because he had the courage to be honest about himself. Many people are not so understanding or tolerant of being transgendered, gay, lesbian, etc., so to tell the whole world that you are different and something that so many people think is wrong or sinful or whatever, is a courageous thing to do. By coming out, he was opening himself up to hatred and scrutiny, but he did it anyway.
My question is…why is Bruce Jenner discussing this very private matter with the public? I did not see the interview, nor do I care about his particular issue. I do care about the fact that it seems exceedingly important for non-heterosexual, gender confused people to announce their non-heterosexuality and gender confusion to everyone and anyone who will listen. IDGI
These are intensely personal, private matters. If the motivation of the LGBTQ community is to abolish discrimination against themselves, then I believe the way to do it is to emphasize that personal matters should remain personal and that no one has the right to discriminate against people for their personal preferences. Job performance, character, and integrity should be the only factors used to judge professional accomplishments or worthiness. LGBTQ members continue to go far beyond that, IMO, by trying to justify or explain their choices and I personally do not care. It is none of my business what you like in the bedroom; what gender you are; whether or not it is the same gender you were born with; whether or not you are questioning who you are or what you like. For most of the people I come into contact with in my life, as long as you do your job and are kind and honest, I have nothing but respect and praise for you. Why do I need to know anything else? Why all the spotlights being shined on “coming out” and this latest with Bruce Jenner?
Beautifully written! It’s about making money. If he wanted to enlighten us, then do the interview for free… and no reality series. Are we all just idiots. He’s bamboozling us. It’s all about the $$
SantaFe, I agree with you in general. In Bruce’s case his transition was going to be public (and has been public) anyway. This was a way for him to tell his story, his way rather in the way that TMZ and night time talk show hosts want to tell it.
He has been ridiculed for years over this and was not allowed the courtesy of doing it privately.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I get that. Since I did not see the interview, I’ll refrain from commenting on the effectiveness of his presentation. A simple statement confirming his gender reassignment plans and asking for privacy during this troubling, personal time would have done it for me. But of course it’s up to him how to handle this and he went the public route for a private matter. I do wonder when people do this if they are looking for our acceptance so they can accept it themselves but, whatever. If he needed the cheers and sympathy from the public, and needed us to all know his pain and struggles, then I guess he has them. I hope that helps make his transition less traumatic. I like him as a person. I don’t really care if he’s a man or a woman. He seems like a very kind, genuine person and I like that. I did not need to know what side of the bed he gets out of in the morning. Maybe that’s just me.
I’ll go a step further. Transsexuality confuses the hell out of me. Since Bruce put it out there, let’s compare him with Chaz Bono for a minute. Work with me here. If Bruce believes his soul is a woman, but he is still attracted to women, then he’s lesbian. But he has a dick. For now. Granted he says he is asexual and maybe that will continue. But if he would like a sexual partner, who will he choose? If he keeps his dick but has boobs, nail polish, mascara, and a negligee and goes looking for the woman he says he’s attracted to, who will he get? From what I know about lesbians, they’re so not about the dick, so he’d need a heterosexual woman who is probably so not about the boobs. It’s a conundrum.
Now Chaz Bono. Born a man in a woman’s body, he has undergone a radical transformation and truly looks physically like a man, but he has a vagina. Before and during his transformation he had a female partner. So he appeared to be heterosexual while his partner was, apparently, lesbian. They broke it off and now he is contemplating marriage to a male drag queen. So I guess that means he’s gay. Or else he’s not interested in sex at all, or is bisexual or questioning. Maybe he is all of the above. Maybe all transgenders/transsexuals are all of the above?
Can we have an honest conversation about transgender individuals and not discuss genitals or sexual orientation? I wonder how many transgender individuals have had SRS. I bet not many. Because I don’t think medical science has produced a satisfactory substitute for the real thing. And I’m sure it’s expensive. Any way one looks at this particular issue, it’s clear these are very troubled people who deserve to find peace. And I do not think the best way to do that is by making a public spectacle of their personal struggles. The motivation behind their decision to do that is suspicious. I don’t believe it is to help others since each person is so very different. Trying to truly understand someone else’s intensely private matters is futile. While interesting, it’s more salacious than therapeutic, at least for the audience. IMHO. I am still waiting for the LGBTQ community to become secure enough with themselves that they will stop feeling the need to set themselves apart and proceed with assimilation into the community around them.
I hear what you are saying, SF, but part of being public about LGBTQ issues is to educate the public, the community, the families and friends of people in similar situations.
You say you have a ton of questions, you said you were confused. How else would you expect to become enlightened if everyone kept their business behind closed doors?
Reading about and watching other people’s stories is one way we learn. We can also be inspired, in some cases, and those who are dealing with it don’t have to feel so isolated.
Katherine, it’s not so much that I have questions as I am confused since I do not understand those feelings nor will I ever, I suspect. Answers to any questions I may have are easy to come by on the internet. What do you mean by “enlightened”? That I will see the light? Of transsexuality? Really? I am female and I could never fully understand feeling like a man trapped in a female’s body. I simply do not feel that way. The questions I have are specific to each person since I believe each transgender person is different. Each person is different. I think my point is that I don’t need to become educated about everyone else’s personal business. I am sure if someone close to me was transgender then I would learn about their issues. Trying to lump them into a general category labeled as “transgender” would be ridiculous since, as I said, every person and every circumstance is different. There is no vicarious learning in these situations and, by definition, people who represent way less than one half of 1% of the world population are bound to feel isolated. What they need to do is have confidence and conviction in who they are. No one but themselves can achieve that.
Chaz Bono is NOT getting married to Drag star Courtney Act. They met on the set of RuPaul’s Drag race & became good friends. If you believe everything you read in the National Enquirer then your problems go far beyond the homophobia your comments are displaying. So it’s ok for straight people to kiss in public & celebrate their love with marriage but lgbtqia people should hide their feelings & relationships (or “keep it private”) because it confuses YOU or makes YOU feel uncomfortable? Do you also think the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy is a good idea? Do you think that interracial relationships should be kept private? Because people in generations before us did. I think history has proved that Separate But Equal doesn’t work. And it’s not fair.
Chaz & Courtney might have had a sexual relationship but that’s none of our business unless they choose to share it with us. Chaz was a woman attracted to women but she transitioned to a man attracted to women. Courtney is a man who dresses as a woman (pretty convincingly, too) who is attracted to men. If you find it confusing, how do you think they feel? Maybe gender & sexuality are more fluid than we’ve been raised to believe.
Visibility leads to acceptance. That’s just the way things work. People in the lgbtqia community are still being killed for expressing who they are. So, yes, it is a brave thing for Bruce Jenner to publicly talk about his transition. And, because of his action, there are lgbtqia kids out there who might not feel so alone & choose to kill themselves. And there might be straight people out there who have never met a trans person before who now think about acceptance in a different light because someone they “know” from tv shares his experience transitioning. Maybe instead of wanting them to hide or trying to figure them out, you should just listen. And accept. >
You’re reaching here, Lady Cocotte. My comments are not homophobic and, unless you know Chaz personally, I guess we read different tabloid stories about his relationship with Courtney. Nowhere did I say a person should not kiss in public, marry, or pursue their own lifestyle choices. I totally ACCEPT these circumstances and I still believe each individual has a unique life story. I don’t want them to HIDE. I want them to live their lives without feeling the need to try to justify or explain the choices they are completely entitled to make and to live the lives they desire to live.
We disagree on how people learn, and about tolerance. I don’t need to be told about it to know it’s there. I believe. I have a transgender neighbor and we never needed to discuss his journey from male to female. She is a very considerate, honest, and compassionate person. Because of our age gap we are not close personal friends, but we have mutual respect. I think that is what this is all about.
TT- “We’re all just people trying to survive and thrive for a short time on this earth regardless of sex, race, religion, national origin, eye color, sexual orientation, mood, life experiences, health, pedigree, or whatever.”
Perfectly put………………
I was absolutely riveted and fascinated by this courageous interview.
You are sooo right TT when you said that this interview was much more than you thought it would be. I thought it was beautiful and saw the struggle in being true to herself and others forcing the process.
If I could take it in a lighter direction, sadly, the horrible side of me kept comparing Bruce’s facial construction, dental work, and voice to that of Dr. Phil’s wife. I have such an issue with plastic surgery and dental work all coming out the same. I would hope that we have come far enough that facial work could really bring out a person’s beauty, instead, many end up looking the same and Dr. Phil’s wife is no model to strive for.
I just read Linda Thompson’s essay about her life with Bruce Jenner. Wow. It’s a beautifully written message of support from a woman who lost her husband to his true self & learned to love him anyway.
It’s obviously a huge and defining thing that Bruce is doing. I do not think Diane Sawyer is getting enough credit for how well it is being received. I also think that the reason Bruce chose not to have Oprah do it may be more explosive for some people than this was.
Linda’s essay made me incredibly sad. As much as I want to applaud Bruce for all this, I also feel violently angry when I think about the abandonment of his children. There is no excuse but catastrophic illness for him to have chosen to skip Brandon’s high school graduation. Bruce abandoned all 6 of them to an extent at different points in their lives, and chose to have the youngest 4 after first finally admitting his secret to his first wife. Bruce also chose to fraudulently enter into 2 more marriages.
The true HEROES of this interview, IMHO are Esther, Burt, Casey, Brandon and Brody Jenner, and of course Chrystie and Linda.
Yay! They are reairing this interview in about 4 minutes, on ABC! I missed it the first time!