According to the autopsy, Mike Brown was not shot in the back but from the front. The curfew is an hour away but multiple reports of gunshots from the protesters toward the police officers resulting in tear gas and smoke bombs being thrown toward all protesters. A witness on CNN is saying that there were not gunshots fired. Media says that shots were most definitely fired and they had to “hit the deck.”
Late Sunday, The New York Times reported that a private autopsy requested by Brown’s family found that he was shot at least six times, including four times in the right arm and twice in the head. All of the shots, the Times reported, were fired from Brown’s front — a finding that could contradict a witness statement indicating that Brown was hit as he ran away from police.
Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request, the Times said. In an interview, he noted that one of the shots appeared to have struck Brown on the top of his head, but that it wasn’t immediately clear what that signified. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer,” Baden said.
I can’t believe that people keep bringing their young kids into the middle of violent situations. This is so fucking sad and insane.
This post is a continuation of community comments from this post which is getting very lengthy.
Thanks for starting the new thread. It was getting to be a little tedious following the other one, since there were so many posts everywhere.
And I agree wth you about the kids being there. Why in the world would you bring your kids to such a potentially dangerous “event”? Think, people. You may get all bent out of shape if authorities close the beach, but if the waters are shark infested……
CNN just posted a picture of an angry protester with a very young infant in one arm and a fist in the air with the other. It’s horrific.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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I get “Passion” but DAMN! I would hope for my babies sake, that I would keep my ass at home!
I douvt they would “get” your comment. Pity
And then if any of those innocent children got hurt, God forbid, they would blame anyone but themselves.
You know, this is totally unfair. Where is the government?? Why aren’t they provide if child care and head start at night so mothers can go out and peacefully protest??? This country is just trying to bring black women down!
TeeCee-exactly 🙂
How do you figure the government should be responsible for daycare for your children while you go out to protest?
Or did I misinterpret and you meant it jokingly as social comment? Never mind, sigh…
All your snarky and racist comments flow easy behind the amenity of a computer screen and a key board. Yet it is very telling to me the state of racial relations and attitudes regarding the value of the life of people who do not look like you in SOME places in this country.
So I’ve posted more lately because y’all are so enjoyable. I didn’t post much during the Trayvon and Zimmerman trial because of ‘man’s inhumanity to man’. I guess that I may drop in from time to time and read what you all think and feel, but it won’t be often. Can we just get back to Jodi Aras and Juan Martinez? Now, there’s a real villain. “Be ye kind one to another.” NEMASTE!
there was a 2 year old baby who was shot in the head while getting her hair braided on the block in a plastic chair just minding their business that person is who i would protest for not a kid who just committed a crime no matter how petty it is this is way over the top and i blame al sharpton a little for this. he often times looks for the wrong cases to blow out of proportion.
It certainly is interesting that things escalated AFTER Sharpton and Jackson spoke to the protesters.
That’s how they make their money. Face it – if there were no racism in the US – they would be out of a job.
Not “Jackson”. My post should read Johnson. Sorry.
I meant Jesse Jackson. Sorry for any confusion.
7 dead and 29 wounded in Chicago this weekend. Where was Double J?
Makes me sick.
As much good as Jackson has done he may have added fuel to the fire of unrest. After speaking to the family of Michael Brown he stated that his conversation with them brought tears to his eyes and shame to his heart. Shame? What is that all about?
Jackson said he planned to go home and see his son who wears low slung pants, hat cocked to one side and has his arm tattooed because that is who his son is and he loves him.
To me that statement smacks of racial profiling.
Jackson is now a powerful figure representing the officers no matter where they serve or what branch they come from. I’m just not certain how prudent a statement with undertones of racial profiling is at a time like this. It may have been better served if he would have just said he was going home and love his child. Leave it at that.
Of the many photos I have viewed of the protesters the officers are solemnly doing their duty with expressions that relay the seriousness of the situation, authority or, at times, a glint of fear…except Jackson at a march. He was smiling at the protesters. Was that some indication of inner approval?
Jackson is confusing me.
Possibly I pinned too much hope on this man.
That’s his job.
What? Please explain because I am obviously missing something about Johnson’s demeanor and actions that emcompass his job.
These are terrible circumstances yet nothing that has not happened in history before and will most likely repeat in the future sadly. And although nothing has surprised me for the most part, one thing that does surprise me is why was he left on the street for 5 hours before being picked up. I could see it if his body was in some war torn region and it was too dangerous to risk retrieving it. I keep thinking about that. Imagine any dead body on such a publicly accessible road being there for that long.
I don’t work in forensics, but don’t they have to preserve the crime scene and wait for the medical examiner? Take photos, measurements, etc? That usually takes time.
I guess so. Thanks Cat.
Spot on Cat!
They do that so the crime scene people can do their jobs. The body isn’t moved until all evidence is collected and documented. The body is left uncovered so as not to disturb any evidence; not to make a statement about the value of the person, as I have seen quite a few people say.
When there are car accidents here in NY, they leave the body there in the street covered with a sheet until the coronor arrives and that is just a car accident. Not out of the ordinary but Im sure the media is not educating people to know that.
They covered him rather quickly according to Youtube videos. The body is always left at the scene to take swabs, measure things, note the position of the body. etc.
When my sister died of cancer, we were all exhausted and waiting for the funeral home to come and it took HOURS and that was not a crime scene. In this case the corner showed had to come and record data, etc. From my experience four hours is not long at all.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Oh I see, makes sense.
Up until this case, I liked Don Lemon of CNN a lot. I don’t anymore.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
> They covered him rather quickly according to Youtube videos. The body is > always left at the scene to take swabs, measure things, note the position > of the body. etc. > > When my sister died of cancer, we were all exhausted and waiting for the > funeral home to come and it took HOURS and that was not a crime scene. In > this case the corner showed had to come and record data, etc. From my > experience four hours is not long at all. > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Tamara Tattles [email protected]> wrote: > >>
I agree. I don’t expect everyone in the world to see things how I do. But truth is truth and right is right. It has left a bad taste in my mouth with a lot of reporters, and politicians. They fueled the flames of racism knowing full well it had nothing to do with it. They have posted pics of Darren Wilson’s house, his family and put them at a higher risk than before. All for doing his job. It has become a us vs them with law enforcement as the media portrays leos as militarized non emotion robots. Saddening.
And in fueling the perception of racism, they helped fan the flames of the fires, riots and looting. They should be ashamed to even call themselves reporters.
Don Lemon has no credibility. He’s had too many temper tantrums on camera.
I agree. The more Don talks, the less I like him. I just want unbiased reporting.
Have to say Tamara. I initially came to this site for housewives news. But I am staying for all the great social and legal coverage. It is enjoyable and most of all your common sense, calling a spade a spade, is very refreshing.
Thanks Fairplay!
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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They should have at least placed a tenting of sheets or something around his body. I did find that very insensitive. They said his mama was there.
Regardless, I do hope everyone finds some peace. My God. Sad.
Thank You for the update.
My St. Louis friends are posting that large groups are forming on some of the overpasses, that the Dellwood Market is on fire and that another large group of people are marching toward the QT. They are listening to the St. Louis police scanners. Sounds like the action has moved away from where CNN is filming.
I hope your friends are doing ok Lindy. It must be something else to be living right now.
Yes. Lindy please stay safe and just be cautious. My prayers are with you. I don’t know you or your race. I just want you and yours to be safe. I’m sorry that you’re having to endure this situation .
Thank you Jen and HerDaughter. I haven’t lived in St. Louis for many years now, but still keep in contact with many old friends there.
big mike made it obvious he was stealing at the store, he didnt try to hide it. then he walked down the middle of the road so everyone could see him. its almost like he wanted to be caught. maybe he didnt really want to go to HVAC school.
WHAT? Wait. So you are saying Steve that he did all that so he wouldn’t have to go to community college. Well damn. It worked. He isn’t going.
This is the first publication of the Baden autopsy. For those of you not familiar with Baden, he is 80 years old and …. well let’s just say he gravitates to highly publicized cases. His autopsies often conflict with the local autopsies.
Check out the entire article here. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
That said, he was doing the autopsy at the behest of the family, waived his usual very high fee and his findings (which will be the least of the three I believe) seem to support the officer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
I am around a lot of forensic pathologist, I have never heard a kind word said about the man. He is a media whore. A drinking buddy did the Amadou Diallo autopsy. He had no love for Baden, It is in poor form to rush his autopsy out before the official results.(IMHO) Additionally there will be a second autopsy performed by the DOJ. If he can’t give Micheal Brown’s family the result they want, then it is not there. He does his best to accommodate his clients.
I hope they do toxicology too. I think he was hopped on up something given his agressive behavior and what he bought.
I also dont like Don Lemon, never have. He is unprofessional and inserts himself into the news.
The communities with so much violence and strife should be proactive daily instead of just showing up after someone gets killed. I saw many people smiling and carrying on like they were at a party.
I also think his buddy should be prosecuted for making up a totally false story.
Also, lying, looting, setting fires, destroying their communitiess and violence does nothing but perpetuate stupidity and ignorance.
I agree. Baden has no credibility, either. He’s sold himself too often. His family members need to grab him and say “Grandpa, you’re good; you don’t need to have anymore press conferences, OK?”
Baden was none too happy about the Feds coming in behind him to do another autopsy.
I’m more interested in the FIRST one done by the local coroner.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Baden lost any credibility he had when he testified at the Phil Spector trial.
So, did Henry Lee for that matter when the judge told him that he found he wasnt credible aka he lied.
Thanks so much TT! Interesting read, I too am looking forward to reading the initial autopsy.
Right now I want to ring that Dorian Johnson’s neck. They need to bring him up on charges. He was the first one to say that incediary story about how a racist cop stopped them and started shooting and kept shooting Michael Brown in the back and while he had his hands up. He never mentioned the robbery. Obviously he LIED.
Look at where his lies have led Ferguson and the nation. Who knows how many crimes were committed in STL and elsewhere on innocent people by thugs getting revenge and in retaliation for Brown. Dorian should be arrested for inciting violence…UGHHH!
Yea! Dorian was obviously being coached. He chose his words carefully to make up so outlandish story that anyone with half a brain would question!
All to the front. These bullets acted like the “Home Defense” bullets we use! This is the first of 3 Autopsies? Or was a 4th order TT? I’m trying to keep up.
This Man had a lot to say. Wow.
This was the 2nd autopsy. The results of the first are being held, I think for toxicology results. There is one more autopsy scheduled.
I know the people there are demanding answers, and they deserve them. But they need to understand that this is NOT a tv program. It’s not an episode of CSI, where things are resolved in an hour. It takes much longer in “real life”. They need to stop being paranoid, and just be patient.
I hear ya! And that press conference was something else…smdh
After it being so late last night and reading hundreds of comments. ..I’m not sure what I meant by that? I know this was the autopsy the family requested. And I’m also aware that these are the only results released, as of yet. LoL…comments on an insomniac. Probably why I’m in moderation!
Oh Don Lemon is suddenly changing his tune. Suddenly he is pro police.. must be getting negative feedback.
the cnn/hln still lurk here TT. i asked here if the reporters at mcdonalds bought food or just used electricity and just a little later they answered on tv that they bought food too. 🙂
Yes, Steve. Good observation. CNN runs its network based on your posts. No one else in the world could have thought of the complex food angle.
What a fucktard you are, Steve.
but i am RIGHT when i make those statements and that is why you have to resort to name calling eel capitan, most of what you have said this week about this has turned out to be WRONG
cnn reads for the QUALITY of TTs posts, i just illustrated an instance of a question here at TTs that was soon answered
You dig yourself deeper into a delusional hole. You prove your utter and unquestionable stupidity over and over. I know I shouldn’t laugh so much at your stupidity, but, damn, you make it impossible not to.
no eel, i know that TT has at least one friend that appears quite often on cnn/hln.
Don Lemon is a tool.
I used to like him a lot but this is the worst reporting that I have seen him do. Not a fan anymore….
Yeah, I pretty much lost respect for him after that whole Twitter fight he had with Jonah Hill. While I can’t stand Jonah Hill – I think he’s a talent-free ball of ugly, fat, douchebaggery – I think a reporter like Lemon should be above such antics.
The Baden autopsy showed that he was shot 4 times in the arm which appears that the officer may have been trying to wound him.
He was shot twice in the head…one at the top of the head which at 6’4″, which could mean he charged at him. “One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden….”
Since Brown was moving, the 4 shots to the arm were probably random placement. Even though it took only moments, after the first shots enough time elasped for the officer’s firearm training to kick in and he stopped Brown’s threatening behavior with the head shots.
Brown had total control of his destiny. He chose to die even after the officer gave him several opportunities to live.
Brown’s first opportunity was when he was ordered out of the street and decided he didn’t have to obey the officer. His second opportunity was when he told him to stop running after Brown assulted him.
Brown’s final choice to tempt destiny was when he was shot in the arm and stayed upright. He should have hit the pavement when the first bullet hit him in the arm but he continued to charge. Bogus, bogus bogus. If all of the witnesses are correct, the officer shot about 4 times and then there was a brief pause. Why did Brown continue to act in a threatening manner? His actions drew more fire which ultimately took his life. By that time the officer had a good sight and stopped the threat.
It is not like the officer walked up to Brown and put two to the head. If Brown would have just complied he would be alive.
Brown’s family have insulated themselves with attorneys. Wilson should take a page out of their book.
Wilson should hire a powerful attorney and file a civil lawsuit against Michael Brown’s estate, any heirs and his family for Michael making him shoot him.
Wilson should also bring a lawsuit against Dorian for giving false and misleading information which incited the rioting and slanderous statements which portray the officer as the villain.
No one on this blog knows in what order each bullet was fired. No on this blog was in that street. No one in this blog was in that store. That includes myself.
Um, the order of the bullets is pretty obvious.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
While I do not agree with much of what Bravogirl has posted I do agree with this. There is no way to know what order shots were fired with a full postmortem. The impact of any of the bullets could have caused the body to turn resulting in unpredictable placement of the shots. Also even if he was hit in the head first it does not mean he dropped automatically. That said it is unlikely that had brown been hit in the arm he had the time to stop, think and lay down. All of that said Brown made the decision to charge and armed man when he was not in fear for his life so no one in their right ming can hold him blameless.
what is obvious about the order of the bullets exactly in you expert opinion?
Bravogirl-I made my statement based on logic using the scenario his friend broadcasted to the world.
Michael’s friend Dorian stated they ran, Mike was shot, he turned and “raised his arms in the universal sign of surrender” while Dorian ran behind a parked car and took cover.
Bear in mind following the autopsy performed by the family’s pathologist, Baden indicated that either head shot would have killed Michael instantly.
There is no way Michael could have done all of the above with either head injury which means at the time he turned to face officer Wilson he had only suffered the hand injury (which the family’s attorney indicated was a result of the scuffle with the officer) and arm injuries.
Michael spent his day making a series of bad decisions. The powers that be gave him opportunities to live. When he turned he should have hit the ground, spread eagle. He may have had some music to face but it sure beats how his day ended. It was his choice.
Michael chose to die. My heart goes out to officer Wilson whose life will be forever changed due to Michael and Dorian’s arrogance and obvious stupidity.
Would any of these protests be happening if the cop had been black? I think not. This had NOTHING to do with race. It had to do with a thug who is huge and fists like hams who likes to push people around. PERIOD. Why was he in the middle of the highway “daring” people to hit him? That policeman had every right to stop him. All of the bullets came from the front. The policeman’s face had been bruised and hurt. With those ham fists coming at me, I’d fire to – white or black. The “witness” who stated the policeman was firing to his back is both stupid and a liar. He doesn’t think someone can prove from which direction the bullets came? DUH And then there are the black “leaders” making things worse. And WHY are people complaining the police were there in force in case a riot breaks out? DUH – they always break out. Remember the fires and looting? I wonder how many other places this thug robbed. The people who he has robbed in the past (I doubt this is his first time – he seemed rather pleased and relaxed while robbing that poor man) are not coming forward because they know the black “protesters” will burn their businesses too. Again, would there be all this fuss if the cop had been black? NOPE
Yep. I was basically called a racist on twitter for using the word “thug”. I didn’t know it was a racial slur. Heck, I watch a lot of true crime programs. Lately, I’ve been watching “Lockup”. And most of the convicts, of every race, call themselves “thugs”. So….I don’t know what’s PC anymore. And I really don’t care. Act like a thug, and you will be treated like a thug. If that sounds racist to anyone, so be it.
I thought the words “thug” and “criminal” were synonyms. Has something changed?
It isn’t a racial slur, but there are a lot of people out there who are pushing the idea that “thug” = “nigger”. They’re the ones who will counter any criticism of…well…thugs with a response along the lines of, “Why don’t you say what you really mean? You think all black folks are…” and so forth.
“Thug” is based on a behavior, not a racial makeup, but the racism police are now trying to change that.
That’s exactly what happened, ericzku. Almost word for word.
I’m getting tired of pussyfooting around people. I’m eventually going to get to the point where I say EXACTLY what I mean, without sugar coating, or otherwise trying to be polite, and politically correct.
In MY mind, I also think of “thug” as representative of one’s actions and so on. Not race. I guess others take it to a whole other level. That’s their bad. Not yours.
I agree! And I also wonder why we don’t rally up in cases when black gays or transgender people are murdered?
We’ll rally for the thugs but not for the gays?
That’s not cool to me.
Michael Brown may have been a thug but in this country we have something called due process. You know,where people are innocent until proven guilty….If you don’t think blacks face a different justice system in America than whites you’re delusional. Please name an un armed white male who’s been shot in their face because the stole from a gas station. Please name the last time you’ve heard of a un armed white male being shot to death for reaching for his wallet. Or the last time you’ve heard of an un armed white male being shot to death period. I’ll wait.#filesnails
Clearly you are not familiar with Chicago.
Let me see if this same young man was doing what we know all black men are good for entertaining you in Sports on your favorite team that you spend hundreds of dollars of your hard earned money to go watch him play. When scored the winning play would you described his hands as “hams”. Racist tickle me. I work with one the most renowned neuosurgeons in the world who is Black and I watch on a daily basis how saves lives regardless of color or socioeconomic status and I come among so called people and watch them them type horrible things about this young man a a group people you don’t know and in many cases won’t take the time to know.
You work with neurosurgeons and your vocabulary doesn’t include the term hamfisted? It’s a common term for clumsiness that originates from the fact that large people with big hands are clumsy.
Is your work with the neurosurgeon perhaps in some sort of human guinea pig capacity? Because, your obsession with calling some 300 pound dude’s hams is really odd.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Uhmmm, please check in Florida. I think you’ll find a few cases that people where up in arms about….and they were white unarmed males that were shot because of perceived aggressive behavior. Not jumping into the Ferguson discussion. Wayyyyy too many opinions of idiots and cyberspace intellectuals minds that won’t be changed on a blog. Just knew you were waiting for a response to your inquiry.
Clearly you need to brush up on New Orleans stats while you file those nails…
o,o its funny how you would think I’m black. I’m not, I just find it so sick to see tee cee say such horrible things about a people or subject she obviously has no intelligent knowledge of. On some points I agree with you but I’m not upset. Her ignorance is her own and I’m happy that she and others on this blog have found a warm and fuzzie platform to spew their hatred. This America.
Fist like ham” really? Because he’s a black young man who happens to be a tall young man and a 200plus he has hands like “hams”. Why not just say watermelons?
Lol. You are the self appointed PC police. I notice that you oft comment on how peoe say things…but not what they are saying. Wonder why…
Tamara in your haste to submit a sarcastic reply you missed who I was responding to. One of your racist posters said this dead young man had hands like hams. And to answer your other sarcastic statement no we operate on human beings and don’t spend our valuable time calling our patients offensive names.
So because he is dead his hands can’t look like hams? Or because he is black his hands cannot look like hams? There have been comparisons of fists to hams for ages. Heads compared to peanuts.. eyes compared to… well you get the idea. I find your outrage over ham fists to be a bizarre focal point in your argument with racists.
I appreciate you taking time from your busy day as a neuroscientist to address this egregious issue though.
Teecee I’m ready for you. I’m going to take you on regarding the use of free daycare, who is receiving it. Who gets hired first, who gets educated first and the comment made about black women keeping their legs closed cause stastics don’t support your racists rants! Btw my black son attends nyu. You bitch!
You work for Ben Carson? Look up the word,ham-fisted. Ham-fisted young men do not make the winning play in football. They are not neurosurgeons or pilots either. They might be lineman for Nebraska, if they play football.your knowledge of football is appalling.
i wonder why racist can’t read?
@bravo girl, that’s the best you got, that I have enough dura left to type? ..hee hee. Thank god someone like you wasn’t on my team, they need to screen you people.
I agree 100%
And my comment showed up in a weird spot-was agreeing with my fav teecee. And bravo girl, get a clue. My neurosurgeon, who did my surgery is clearly world class. You don’t impress me.
kathy you and tee cee can suck. and happy to hear you have enough dura left to type I’m even less impressed>
I’m sorry kathy tee see is a spineless racist who hides behind her hand held android, and you are just a mindless, no pun intended, follower. please accept my apology. thank you
@ bravogirl/ 27 why do you care to answer racist comments . You do realize that the comments that tee cee and others make is their belief system ,its engrained into their beings , nothing anything anyone says will ever change their way of thinking And what they belive to be true .
Their racism is their problem not yours . Why care if black people are viewed in thier eyes as inferior Or whatever it is that they think . What they think and belive doesn’t make it fact
.No one should allow Rejection and hate from any group of people to affect them. Forget about it or You’ll spend all of your time being angry and trying to defend a whole race of people . That’s an awesome responsibly and impossible .
Bravogirl-I have been patiently waiting for you to take on Teecee pertaining to your comment about daycare, hiring, education, blackvwomen, birth control, etc. like you threatened to do. You never did. Was that just smack talk or are you not able to go toe to toe with Teecee? Calling someone a bitch and telling them to eat a 12 inch black dick is child’s play. Wouldn’t you agree it is sophomoric? Now come on Bravogirl and show us what you are made of. Break out the big guns.
Wow, marval99. You got all that from this, huh? You have the inside scoop? Well, we can all stop speculating and running our mouths, then. You figured it all out. What people would do if the officer was black, Brown’s “crime-ridden past”, the whole scenario when he “dared” people to hit him, his “ham fists”, everything. You decided he was a happy thug, it’s all been put to bed. Well I guess we can start commenting on RHOC, then. You have figured the whole thing out. Thank you and congratulations. The grand jury is today. Let’s just relax our minds and see what goes down in coming months. Are we really going to comment our asses off on things we weren’t witness to, right or wrong, justified or not, until then?
Yes it would! The protesters have said over and over Hands up. Black people are tired of cops killing innocent black boys and men no matter the color of the cop. Yes, they’re tired of black on black crime as well and no I’m not saying MB was innocent. I’m just explaining the mindset of the people of Ferguson right now. It’s the attitude of the bad cops that has them protesting. Looting and rioting. No. Peaceful protests. Yes
Think of all the economic damage to their own community being caused. Taco Bell is open, but no one can go there. How do the employees get home? Yes I know how silly that sounds, but I’m watching the lite up light at a Taco Bell that basically only cops can access at the moment.
After the riots happened in LA many businesses that were looted decided not to return, depressing the economy in those areas even further. When this situation stops (let’s hope soon for ALL involved) I think this will happen in Ferguson too. What a very sad situation.
This is nothing like what happened in Los Angeles. Those cops WERE out of control. People can only take so much.
I’m not talking about the cops, they were out of control. I’m talking about the looting that happened after their trial. When they wrote found “not guilty” the city was a crazy place. I was also commenting to Tamara about how businesses did not come back to those areas because of the rioting.
Typo, when they were found “not guilty”.
They (the police) said last night that those arrested were NOT from the area. Outsiders, for whatever reason, are making the entire town look bad.
What scares me is, the numbers are increasing. They went from NO injuries one night, to one being shot. Last night, 3 were shot. How many tonight, I wonder? 🙁
I know this is a totally different situation, but when I was in Orlando, and hurricane charlie hit, we were without power for several days. The streets were pitch dark at night. The city imposed a curfew. If you were out on the street after dark, you were arrested, unless you could prove you were on your way to/from work.
At first, like others, I was outraged…My rights were being taken away. But then, I saw, the police were doing this to protect innocent citizens. After dark, the gangs and other undesirables came out of the woodwork. By staying home and obeying the curfew, we were in a way helping the police clear the streets of criminals.
I wish the protesters could see that.
dr badens article thdey say “we waived our fees, we are doing this for the families.” plural. are they doing autopsies on everyone shot during this? or just the headline case?
Ha. He probably waived his fee because it wasn’t exactly the result Ben Crump and the family wanted. Crump sure is spinning it though.
Baden’s wife took on the last media swamped case in the family (Casey Anthony), so he’s got this one. What publicity thirsty vermin they are.
And have been since JFK…
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Just wanted to throw in my polite thoughts from across the Canookian border and say that when I first heard of this story (a bit on social media and through minor news radio highlights), I was essentially presented that a white cop approached an unarmed black teen who was walking down the street with a friend and after a confrontation shot and killed him. Crazy to watch the details develop and it makes me sad that tragic events like these are twisted for the wow factor and to get people worked up. Thank you for your honest and factual coverage, Tamara.
Anyway, hope everyone stays safe down there. Hopefully Phaedra will stop humping his family.
Yeah the reporting of this case in Australia is very much ‘ American cop kills teen over four cigars’ or something to that tune. I try to read from reputable sources online rather than our nightly news.
They are STILL reporting that he was jaywalking instead of that they were in the middle of the damn street and could have caused car accidents.
walking in the street is jaywalking, FYI.
Jaywalking is crossing a street when not at the corner. Everyone has done it. Walking down the middle of the street instead of the sidewalk is stupid and calling it “jaywalking” make it seem like less than what happened.
Walking down the street with stolen items after robbing an old man for cigars like you tha man and refusing to follow directives from a police officer is well beyond jaywalking.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Yes, but I am sure people don’t realize that they were in the middle of the street walking in the middle of traffic. Jaywalking sounds like he crossed the street on a green light with no cars atound. That is what I first thought. I remember thinking that it was silly the cops even bothered…
Has anyone heard if there has been anything said about the toxicology report yet?
HannahKingRose….Tox reports often take many weeks to come back. I would be surprised if the tests came back within a week. I’d bet at least 2 weeks.
Rosey I know it usually takes longer for the full tox screen but I would have thought that along with his autopsy, Dr. Baden might have done a quicky one to indicate drugs were present in his system or not.
They said this afternoon, that he had pot in his system. Hard to claim these days that pot is a dangerous drug since the gov’t is taxing it now instead of busting folks.
Ron Johnson is speaking. THis is so sad. I just can’t. This man is working so hard to get peace.
He’s been looking so tired. Last night, with people being shot, he looked downright angry/frustrated. All that work he did to help, wiped out by a few outsiders.
mcdonald’s employees locked themselves in a storage room during rioting. Molotov cocktails have been thrown at police, they have been fired upon…
At least three people were shot in a protest incident. no officers injured. Ron Johnson is so very dejected.
It’s just very, very, very sad.
Schools are closed now. Businesses are closed now. The rioters are winning.
I am glad the schools are closed, because I think it’s just too much for children during a period of such unrest and no clear signs that problems are being handled and the community is safe. I certainly hope that doesn’t mean that parents will bring the children out to protest. Certainly safety is “iffy’ in the daytime, but it is no place for a child at any age, accompanied by an adult or not to be out after dark. Having a 2 year old out there at 8:30 in the evening when things were clearly escalating was the height of stupidity.
Ron Johnson said this faction of people have a different agenda than the peaceful protesters, and that their antics were clearly premeditated and planned. Wanted to slap that little snot Chis Hayes for acting like Johnson was lying about that. I use to like Chris Hayes, but after this week’s coverage, I’m not feelin’ him at all. Tonight I thought he needed some serious Kaopectate to treat that acute case of diarrhea of the mouth that he obviously displayed.
Can we put this to rest now? Is there Terrible racism agaist blacks ? Yes . Do racist cops target innocent black teens ? yes ..Have countless innocent black men young and old lost their lives because of an officer shooting them for no reason ???Yes!
But that is not the case this time . That community did all of the rioting, destruction of property , additional loss of life for nothing .
It’s sad for any mother father / family to lose a child but unless his mom is in denial her greatest fear has come to pass regarding her son . I’m sure she and his grandmother wept many a night because this child was out of control and they knew her headed for sure death at an early age one way or another . This is a shame and sad for the family , I’m sure they loved their child . If this woman has more children and they’re out of control ,hopefully she’ll take drastic measures to get them in hand .
“Have countless innocent black men young and old lost their lives because of an officer shooting them for no reason ???Yes!”
Please give examples.
Are you serious?? Are you really that insensitive to what has happened in the Black community for all these years?? Wow. You are pathetic.
What has happened? They’ve had all forms of bad behavior excused? They get the first chance at jobs and colleges? The get to openly mock white people with no repercussion?
I’m not blaming them. Hell, someone hand me that. I’ll take it.
Teecee you are a sad racist fat computer dependent, incognito, attention seeking lonely, bipolar, off her meds bitch and I mean that in the nicest way possibly. Oh yea. Eat a black 12 inch dick and enjoy!
I’m sure this will be moderated but I don’t give a fuck. This bitch is ooc.
Why does TeeCee get rewarded with dick for her behavior? #penaltyflag
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Call me names. There are hundreds of thousands — maybe millions — who feel the same or similar but are afraid to say it…because this is how you get treated.
Black dick does nothing for me. I’m no racist, but I’ve never found any black man to be attractive.
Who said the dick was black? Are you assuming based on the length?
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Reread
Oh Okay. I thought you were racially profiling the penis. My bad. Carry on.
Did someone mention a 12 inch black dick? I’ll take two please. Three since Teecee doesn’t want hers.
explain what form of bad behavior have black men been EXCUSED?
what jobs do black men get FIRST CHANCE AT?
what colleges do black men get FIRST CHANCE AT?
openly mock white people< like being called nigger, something like that or enlighten or correct me.
Fortunately for us there ARE NOT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU. the world is browning, people like you are becoming extinct. as it should be.
Teecee is a master of obfuscation. To wit: Obfuscation (or beclouding) is the hiding of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, willfully ambiguous, and harder to interpret.
Not in the least. I’m very straightforward.
Hmmm…I disagree. I’ve never had a problem understanding her comments. She doesn’t sugar coat, like a lot of us do in order to be politically correct, or face backlash. I like her honesty.
Oops. I should have said “to avoid backlash”.
Teecee’s comments are some of the best on here. You may not always agree with her but she’s very articulate to say the least. Also, she holds her ground……totally not a pussy. Oh my, I have to stop watching Kim Zolciak.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. She is absolutely none of that. Choose a new word.
As long as we have Teecees in the world……no one is safe. I do not say all White people are racists. Every Race has Racists. Teecee makes blanket statements. If you look at the Welfare rolls on their site. By percentage…Teecee has us believe blacks are the poorest taking advantage of the government….when in fact its Whites who are the highest Welfare receipients. ALO SHE WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE THAT BLACKS ARE THE BIGGEST THUGS N MURDERERS. No…darlings….its a well known historical fact that the Whites commited an almost complete genocide of Native Americans. Who were raped and killed and their land stolen. Then the treaties that were made with them were lies and very few of the treaties were honored. We all know those facts, or so we should….Rich White men in power have sent our troops over to other countries to seek n desteoy and invade with faux threats…weapons of mass destruction? None were found…they’re just demonizing other racea to make it okay so they can get their resourcea like they did the Native Americans. Whites claimlike Teecee that people of color are terrorists and thugs….and maybe a small percentage are? But, in comparison to Whites…..they have the lowest Murderous intentions and follow through. So, lets be honest and clear about the facts, here folks. Shes not honest and I don’t respond to her idiocy because she’s a Modern day Archie Bunker. I should hope we would all google the Welfare rates and look at the facts and not the bullshit like she and other Racist spew. It creates division and WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER INSTEAD. This situation is heartbreaking.
I think the Archie Bunker analogy is pretty apt.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Why??? Cause she feels strongly that is further back up by statistics that black people are more likely to cause a violent crime or death than any other race in the US?? Or because she speaks the truth without dancing around the issue ?? Or because she holds people accountable for their own actions?? I can clearly see why you wouldnt like that, as your race card would no longer be usable. You can’t accuse other races of pulling wool over our eyes on victimization of black people all while clearly keeping yours shut to the rampant racism in black communities!
@ Jen . I could not of described tee cee better myself which is why I never comment on anything tee cee says or answer any tee cee questions . It’s pointless, a complete waste of time .
But… You just did. BWAHAHAHAHAH.
I’m certainly ruffling some feathers. But what the poster up there said is not true. You think if you keep saying lies to stop what you don’t like, things will change. Ain’t.
Everything happening in the lives of people in the Black communities is happening in the White communities, murders, drugs, petty crime, robbery’s,bullying, domestic violence, incest, child molestation, alcoholism, sex abuse, child abuse, domestic abuse, drunk driving, pornograph, elder abuse, bank fraud, bank robbery,strong arm robbery, assault auto theft, battery, truancy, teenage pregnancy, welfare, evictions, foreclosure, bankruptcy, unemployment. etc.
except their children are not being shot down by the people hired to protect them.
Uh huh. I get it now. You did the best you could I guess. No need to be ashamed.
National Guard is being called in, Gov Nixon just signed the order. I thought that was coming based on the stuff that was coming through on the scanners. We are not being told all that was happening tonight. So far, anyway.
It’s shocking how little it takes for civilized people/town to lose control and just devolve. I honestly can’t think of an Australian equivalent to this situation so it is hard to comprehend it’s magnitude and far reaching consequences. My sympathy to those negatively affected by this ‘situation’.
how would law enforcement in Australia handle this IF it were to happen there? would police show up in force to try and control the situation? I dont know your legal system/gun laws and such,
Your theory is errant. “Civilized people” may protest, act with passive civil disobedience, BUT they won’t riot, loot, nor fire upon police, nor march and chant for the death of the police officer, nor reveal his and his family’s home address, nor set businesses and/or homes afire.
eel no allegations those are the facts both sides have allready agreed to
i said yesterday that was going to happen if this shit kept happening. I am suprised it took this long. last night two people shot, not by police.
Its just amazing how you predict the most obvious things. Thanks for your boundless stewpidity, its entertaining in a most fuckwik way.
Interesting side note. There are exactly two straight males that comment here regularly. And they hate each other.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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my next prediction is-the first autopsy will show gunshot residue on the wound to the gentle giants hand and then the outrage will be police planted it and thats why it isnt in the 2nd and 3rd autopsies
Your insignificance has been acknowledged and duly noted.
ATTENTION TO ALL PROTESTERS AND COPS IN FERGUSEN: STEVE IS RIGHT. HE WINS. YOU CAN ALL GO HOME NOW, AND RESUME YOUR NORMAL LIVES.
Oh, by the way, Steve. They said 3 were shot last night, not two. So maybe you didn’t win, after all.
i dont hate the eel. i enjoy how he tries to twist my statements.
cat i stand corrected, three people got shot instead of two. the cops didnt kill any of the three did they?
No, the cops did not shoot real bullets. According to the police briefing early this morning, those shot were shot by others in the crowd. None of the people arrested were from the area. No one was killed, from what they said. Unless that has changed since early this morning?
cat-nobody wins in this situation. since TTs first post covering this i have said we need to get all the information first. as the info comes out it seems the story wasnt entirely as first reported.
Apparently steve doesn’t hate me and enjoys my statements about the lack of any quality in his ideas. On the other hand, frankly, I do hate steve, who goes far and wide out of his way to try to blame an unarmed youth for being a victim. Furthermore he blames a whole community for wanting justice and who has suffered through historical injustices. I think even he would not deny that his ideas would fit in and go unchallenged at any “stormy -type -front” sites or pro-leo sites, but not go unchallenged elsewhere. Here, steve has been and will be called out on his ideas because here many people plainly see his thinly veiled agenda.
So, Captain, your position is that Brown is blameless? Can you envision and chain of events where you think the cop could have been the victim?
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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yes eel i blame mike for being stupid enough to blatently stealing in the store. i blame mike for strongarming the manager/owner. i blame mike for drawing attention to himself by walking down the middle of the road. i blame mike for trying to escalate things by not moving to the sidewalk when told. i blame mike for resisting when the cop tried to get out of the car. what of these are untrue?
cmon eel, you called me out. I stated my case. where the fuck is yours?
Tamara: No
steve: if all the allegations you throw out were true (which is highly doubtful) they do not amount it totality even close to a justifiable excuse to kill anyone who’s unarmed.
eel both sides have agreed with those facts, what did i say that is untrue?
None of those have been accepted as 100% fact by all people on all sides, and, you’d know that if you read widely enough.
eel, so mike didnt steal, or strongarm the manager/owner, or walk down the middle of the road, or refuse to go to the sidewalk when the cop said to, or try to resist when the cop tried to get out of the car? where have i misspoken? please be specific..if you can
Tamara, I have no idea where my comment is going to land but I noticed your “interesting side note” as well. Your two heteros have a lot to say to one another. I’m hoping they will eventually hug it out but I’m a glass half full type myself.
Too little too late. Authorities thought they would let looters get it out of their system. Now that this didnt work and most of the businesses are destroyed and the Beauty Shop is weaveless, he is calling the guard? Too little too late….
Oh and the criminals (I will not call them protesters) quickly looted the shopowners store where the cigars were stolen (shortly after the video was released for having the audacity to report the crime. That poor man…
@Josie this situation will not be resolved here, just discussed and we all know what opinions are like-thank you for adding that small bit of levity -“the beauty shop is weavless”
Glad I made you smile Vonnie ☺
Captain eel . It’s sad that a mother lost her child but in this case , this was not a good kid , If he brazenly robbed a store then this wasn’t the first time . Cops do shoot unarmed people all the time , but in this case , since the other child involved is still alive could it be that maybe something happened to cause the officer to fire . I agree , too many times and that he could of just wounded him but if there was a struggle this is one of the things that can happen.
Ferguson is done, it will die a slow death. Business or company’s that employs a large work force will NOT move to that area.
When people can move they will, home values will drop, the prosperity of the community is gone.
That is what I am seeing.
The good people that cared have tried and no one listened.
🙁 I’m Sad for all. What a tragedy.
Family attorney Ben Crump has the audacity to say,
“This autopsy … seems to confirm our worst fears, that the witnesses were telling the truth,” he told msnbc.
WTF? Seriously Crump??
They are STILL reporting that he was jaywalking instead of that they were in the middle of the damn street and could have caused car accidents.
Lies, lies, lies….this brings back memories of Tawana Brawley. I feel very sad about the whole situation. Nothing good can come out of this.
I hope Crump is referring to the witnesses who said they saw Brown turn and rush the cop. If Crump is referring to witnesses such as Brown’s friend Dorian and a couple of others who said they saw Brown shot in the back, Crump has completely discredited himself.
The was never anything to discredit about Crump. He’s the Al Sharpton of lawyers.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Didn’t know that, TT. Thanks for the information. Another hope dashed. I thought I saw the writing on the wall when Phaedra put her nose into the family’s business but there is no doubt in my mind now where the resolution of this incident is heading. Too many “key” players hitching their wagon to this star.
Yeah Michael, it truly is shocking how little it takes for civilized people to devolve…beyond depressing.
Can the guy who lied in the beginning saying Brown was shot in the back while running away be charged with lying/tampering with the investigation?
Dorian Johnson should be charged for inciting violence. God, I sure hope so but then again there would only be more riots. You see, he was only keepin it real for his good friend by blaming the police and shooting off his mouth on all the networks. Luckily, we dont have to listen to the BS because his lawyer wisely told him to shut him up.
90% of what is actually happening here is not being reported, or is being reported inaccurately. At this point the police are screwed, they do nothing and people scream about their businesses, they try to disperse the crowd and people scream they are doing to much.
I have family working as LE on this every night, and they have been there every night since it started. Things are not going to get better when the national guard come in, I mean I hope they do but I’m not optimistic.
There is a core group (mostly thugs and gang bangers – we have a huge gang problem here) showing up every evening for the protesting. They are continually (multiple days now) throwing Molotov cocktails, bricks, rocks, bottles, etc at police. More than 30 police vehicles have been vandalized. On 2 separate nights now they have shot at police. They are prepared (and have been recorded stating this) to die fighting the cops.
I don’t know what the answer is and clearly neither do the people in charge, BUT something has got to change.
IMO people don’t want justice, they want Officer Wilson in jail. Whether it was a justified shooting or not they don’t care, they just want him locked up. If that doesn’t happen, if the facts show it was a justified shooting. I’m afraid we are gonna have to hide out somewhere far away for a month or so. As bad as things are now it’s only gonna be 1000x worse if they say this was a justified shooting.
Thank you, Jaysmom for an inside view I hope it ends soon. Until, take care and be safe.
@jaysmom, thanks for the news and I hope your LEO family stays safe
during an autopsy, after the initial external examination, dont they wash the body to see if any other wounds are hidden by blood? if so, how could a second or third autopsy show if gunshot residue was present?
You seem to have a dog in this fight. For why?
how is it racist asking about autopsy protocol? and how that would effect 2nd and 3rd autopsies?
They will take numerous swabs, photos, tissue samples, x-rays. They remove and weigh organs. Check for disease, defects, prior injuries. The body is cleaned. Next it went to Baden, who will go on TV, and say Brown was not shot in the back, and milk this for all it is worth. The DOJ examiner will repeat many of procedures, review the original autopsy notes, photos , swabs. They will test his clothing for residue. It usually takes several weeks for all test results to come back.
Yes, this is a mess. People have allowed emotions to overrule their intelligence. I also noticed most of the protesters seem to be young. I hate to be a classicist, but I am not marching or protesting with fools. Some folks just desire drama and chaos. They live for it. Something about this case from the beginning sent up red flags. I am an African American man…and, I know every cop is not bad, and every black person is not good. When I saw his parents, I drew immediate conclusions, which people will say is wrong. I can only go on my experiences and the people that I know. I would classify these people as good parents. I don’t know one parent that would be out in the chaos. I know the parents would be overcome with grief, and want their child removed from the ground. I also cringed when she said Black boys are barely graduating. Yes, a segment of Black boys are barely graduating, but we have a large percentage that graduate and go onto college, military, trade school and etc. And, once the video of the store came out….I was somewhat done. Any person, bold enough to still from a store with the video camera on them is bold enough to do anything.
I concur. Its a pitiful situation with pitiful results.
Mitchell,
Great post. Peace….
Thank you !! for a heartfelt, intelligent and honest statement.
I said it before, but i will say it again. These situations are always after the fact. There are uproars and ridiculous demands, violence and mayhem before the investigation is done. Rush to judgement cannot only work one way.
The root of the problem is that these parents (white,black, neon green) are obviously failing at raising decent human beings. All communities have to be brutally honest and accepting blame where blame is due.
Get your children a good education. MAKE then go to school and read books. Dont teach them to hate people.
Acknowledge all these problems are not just one sided.
One specific thing i cant stop wondering about when i am out and about is when i see for this example a young black kid, pants hanging, cant understand a word he says. I think where will he be in 20 years and what will he be doing? How will he ever make a living?
Same can be said (to be equal) about some skinhead. Who would ever hire someone with a swastika and other henious markings.
If this Brown kid turns out guilty, then he is guilty. Accept it and teach all kids this is NOT how to act.
If the cop is found to be in the wrong, then fire him and put in place programs and screenings.
@eve, excellent post
It’s kinda sad to see veiled racism on this site. Most commenters are fine but there are a lot of people trying very hard to blame the victim here. I don’t know what he did before he was shot but I’m pretty sure it didn’t warrant death.
yes the victim is being blamed. a lot of people are blaming the cop for big mikes stupidity
Oh hunny. I can’t even hate you when I feel such pity.
Steve is a pitiful person. Many agree with your truthful assessment, snapnoodle.
Thank you so much for saying what I was thinking! I’ve been a loyal reader of this blog since the beginning, I even click on the links. But the veiled racism is sickening. Actually it’s sad. But it’s just a reminder of the reality of the African American experience in America. Might have to stay away from TT for awhile so we can go back to the fun posts and then the racists can go back into hiding. Smh
Well I despise people like you that think just because we don’t cry when other black people cry or fight when they fight then we are racist. This was not a hate crime.. Or a crime at all. It was a horrible tragedy that took place.. Racism will no longer be an issue when people cease to acknowledge it. (I am mutli-racial with brown skin)
Darren Wilson is also entitled to the presumption of innocence can you concede to that point? Dorian Johnson has no credibility, he is now known to have lied about the confrontation and shooting. Darren Wilson could be innocent without negating your fundamental belief of a racist unfair world.
Beating up an officer them running towards him to do it again IS THE REASON he is dead! If someone was beating the shit out of you and over powered you, you have every right to kill them to save your life. Wearing a badge doesn’t change that!
totally agree with you mrsgsp – the recording of witnesses back this statement up. Everyday these people put their lives on the line to protect others. I hope the recording of the eyewitness stating he was charging back towards the police officer gets the publicity that all the misinformation did. This is a very tragic situation and my heart goes out to all concerned but I hope people will step back and give some thought to what happened versus jumping on the bandwagon to persecute this fairly young officer. God bless and protect the boys in blue.
TT– thank you for actually leading your story with the most important detail from Baden’s autopsy — which is that Brown was not shot from behind. The irresponsible media, of course, is leading with “shot at least 6 times” — so everybody stay mad, riot and read our coverage. If I were the police in Ferguson or government, I would refuse to let any white person work in government or law enforcement there. It would be an instant solution to their cries of injustice due to racial profiling. I am also dismayed that the feds got involved with this, further empowering mob rule mentality there. Whatever happened to MLK’s non-violent protest philosophy?
Being shot 6 times was Michael’s choice.
Once that weapon was drawn and Michael failed to “freeze” his threatening actions drew fire. The officer fired until Michael was no longer a threat.
He was no longer a threat when he died. The shooting stopped.
No one saw Dorian come out from behind the parked car and rush the officer drawing more fire did they?
Michael was actually blessed. The first 4 shots were not fatal. If he had just gotten down on the pavement when he was first shot he would have lived but he defied his blessing.
That is true…the first 4 shots to the arm would not have been fatal…..
I am a retired police officer, now in investment banking for 14 years. I served in NYC and in Charlotte. When I was trained in 1981 in NY, I was trained to wound. In Charlotte, I had to go to recruit school again, different state. This was in 1987. At that time, I was trained that if I am going to use the instrument that is deadly force, I need to be in imminent danger of my life, and meet that force, or not use my weapon at all. They taught us many other ways to defend ourselves, boxing, asp baton, flashlight, pepper spray and taser. Times changed, and the training changed. I retired in 2000. I don’t know what they are teaching now. So I don’t think he was trying to wound him, as some have speculated. We need to hear from the officer, and hear what his state of mind was. No one should be shot 6 times, if they are unarmed. What deadly force can be used if you are unarmed and not a known professional boxer or martial artist? I never came across it in my years as an officer, but — Hopefully all the truth will come out on both sides and clear heads prevail. Speculation, based on our own preconcieved notions is always dangerous and incendiary. It wasn’t a good situation all around in this case, and is proving to be quite divisive.
Thank you for your perspective. I mean that.
I agree with you about speculation. Investigations take time. I know here in KC, the KCMO police and detectives will not release ANY info while the investigation is ongoing. It frustrates the public, but they have to do what’s best for the case.
People keep making this an “us against them” scenario. A caller on CNN last night said police fought back because they saw the protesters were “winning”. I don’t see it that way. There are no winners in a case like this. Everyone loses.
Thank you for your years of service.
Thank you for your insight and years of service.
As a former officer I would think you would know that this type of scenario plays out in lightning speed. With adrenaline pumping and perceived bodily harm coming at you with a milisecond to respond – can you honestly say you would not pulled the trigger multiple times? A trained shooter of a semi automatic can fire 6 bullets in a second. This response to perceived threat was not a methodical planned out response. In most jurisdictions these days officers are not taught to “shoot to kill” or “shoot to harm” but shoot to stop and to aim at center mass. I am not saying this man deserved to be killed but people please stop making this about race. My guess is if this officer perceived the threat from any color coming at him he would have acted the same.
I understand you may have been lucky to never fire your weapon. However some officers are not as lucky to end their career without pulling the trigger. Sadly my husband (who never fire in combat) was involve in a shooting with a man with a knife, who try to ambush him and his partner. One of the officer’s with him, was a crisis leader who try to talk the suspect down, but the suspect would not comply with his orders and continue to charge at them. The officer shot several bean bag rows at him, that hit him in the throat, chest, stomach, and private area. The guy fell to the ground and still got back up. He continue to order him to drop the weapon, but he would not comply. Afterwards he ran towards the crisis officer, who was unarmed at that time. Now here in vegas, they are taught 2 to the body and hold. My husband shot him two times in the chest, which cause the suspect to drop to his knees. They carefully approach him, removing the weapon from his hand, and call for medical assist. Before the suspect die, he told my husband that he was sorry and to tell his mother that he love her. They later found out during the investigation, that the suspect threaten to murder his mother and sisters after his girlfriend left him; which is the reason his mother call the cops. They also found out, he threaten to kill any cops he saw approaching his door. ( This information was not given to my husband. They were sent on a domestic violence call. Had they not notices the moving shadow, he would have had the drop on them from were he was hiding.) The reason I bring this up, is because his mother went on a media tour speaking that her Mexican son was gun down by racist cops. He was unarmed and she was not calling for police, but for medical assisted to deal with him. She file a 10 million dollar lawsuit against my husband and the police station. She lost her case and blame the media for not backing her story. The reason why I’m commented, was because this story was a very hot button here in vegas for a moment; until people actually waited for all the facts. I wish the people there would have done the same. I try not to comment, because I do not feel like justifying my words. Just because I’m black and is marry to a cop, does not mean I or anybody else should feel obligated to chose a side. This boy was in the wrong, this case has nothing to do with racist. I wish that people were more outrage for the serial murders of African American men, in Flint, Michigan. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not even remember a news mention about that case, unless you watch the ID channel or live there. And what about the two white officers who were gun down in a Cici pizza, while eating lunch or the bystander who try to stop the couple who took over a Walmart here in Las Vegas just barely month ago. Other than the riots, why is this boy’s death worth headline news? When I can think of serval cases that do not get a mention. Yes Sadly he lost his life, but does a city have to pay for his mistake?
Well said Latrise. Your husband is lucky to have such a supportive wife. I am sure you know the saying “In this family, no fights alone”. It is tough to be the wife of someone who is villianized by the perceived actions of others instead of celebrated for putting their lives on the line every day.
@latrise, excellent points! Thank you for your husbands service, what a difficult situation you all went through. My husband was involved in a shooing as well while on the job, scary days.
Thank you Latrise and I am so grateful your husband and his partner are ok.
Now a large portion of these people are just using this incident as an excuse to commit crimes and take out their life frustrations on the community amd police. Its disgusting and shameful.
I read that there were members of a Chicago Communist group sent in by bus to try to incite things. They were the ones with the molotov cocktails the other night. Interesting detail, this group is white. Also, leaders from the New Black Panther Party were flown in and were inciting violent behavior as well. I feel horrible for the residents of Ferguson. These interlopers will leave and the residents of Ferguson are stuck with the mess left behind.
Please don’t cloud the issue snark. The Black panthers are there. That much is true. However, their stated objective is to get everyone to stop protesting at dusk for five days to let things cool down.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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The story about Mike paying for the cigars is BS. The guy called 911 and the Dorian kid admitted Mike did it.
As information comes in that begins to justify the shooting, you will see more and more bullshit made up to try to attack the cop.
At any rate here is the video from another angle.
https://mail.google.com/mail/?tab=wm#inbox/147eaf70dcbed28d?projector=1
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
> Please don’t cloud the issue snark. The Black panthers are there. That > much is true. However, their stated objective is to get everyone to stop > protesting at dusk for five days to let things cool down. > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Tamara Tattles [email protected]> wrote: > >>
I still can’t get over every time I see the body on CNN he is laying smack in the middle of the road on the yellow lines.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
> The story about Mike paying for the cigars is BS. The guy called 911 and > the Dorian kid admitted Mike did it. > > As information comes in that begins to justify the shooting, you will see > more and more bullshit made up to try to attack the cop. > > At any rate here is the video from another angle. > > https://mail.google.com/mail/?tab=wm#inbox/147eaf70dcbed28d?projector=1 > > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Tamara Tattles > wrote: > >> Please don’t cloud the issue snark. The Black panthers are there. That >> much is true. However, their stated objective is to get everyone to stop >> protesting at dusk for five days to let things cool down. >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Tamara Tattles > [email protected]> wrote: >> >>>
I’ve been watching CNN tonight and I stand corrected. The New Black Panther Party seems to be keeping the protesters calm. I read the other day that they were inciting the crowd but judging from tonight that is not the case.
What I find rather interesting, telling and enlightening was the video of the bystanders. Dude A was explaining what happened to dude B. Dude an was all like nonchalant — yeah, dead guy in the road. Just another day. Not excited or upset or surprised. When dud A tells a Dude B that a cop shot him, dude B gets ELATED. Or maybe just excited. He changes his attitude and he just can’t believe it. What does this tell us class:
1. A cop shooting a guy IS a big deal there. Surprising.
2. There is not a high value on life amongst the people speaking
3. The feeling of “gotchaa” when a thug commits suicide by cop is real and abusive.
We need live video/ audio of all police police calls. Year after year, we hear the same stories- young blacks have been complaining for way over 100 years of being consistently targeted.
Why do we continue to use the lawbreakers as an excuse not to do anything to address excessive force and racial profiling in this country?
We will all lose in the end if positive and genuine steps are not taken to address this issue.
I say, if a small town has enough funds to employ militarized use of force with multi million dollar Tanks and assault rifles fit for a battlefield in Iraq after the fact, then they certainly should have the “budget” for Tasers before the fact.
It speaks to a lack of regard and belief of unaccountability to the very people you serve. Is the entire population of Ferguson criminal?
If you can afford tanks then you certainly should have enough to have live video/audio of police who respond to calls or a disturbance. No matter who the suspect is.
I have never claimed this kids innocence but I certainly don’t believe the police version either.
I have witnessed police intimidation of witnesses, witnessed them lie under oath, get caught trying to falsely enter bullets to evidence in the bag along with a registered gun even though it was empty when they found it. And try to use it as a reason to beat a man to near death and kick dirt over the blood to cover it up. I don’t care how many thugs you can conjure up-over policing of black males is a problem -and not all of them are are criminals/thugs.
Again- we need accountability-live video/ audio for all police calls. It would put an end to all of this BS. We can’t afford not to.
Where and how pray tell have you witnessed perjury, evidence tampering, witness intimidation and attempted murder by the police? Was this one case? One officer? Multiple times? Multiple officers?
…..and pray tell, who are you? I don’t need to prove anything to you as it is obvious you are most interested in confrontation – not genuine dialogue. Well, sorry. You wont get it from me. Move on troll.
Too many Lifetime movies. Same reason I’m scared to death of the Dentist.
No I was sincere, if you witnessed all of these actions I hope you had the courage to report all these crimes. I would consider it a civic duty.
It is amazing to me the people who do not do their homework this Pentagon weaponry. It is ridiculous to think that Ferguson Police owns this type of gear. Do a little fact checking and you will be more credible.
It does not matter- there is a cost. I don’t care who had to pay.
If there is a way to secure this much artillery now, the same urgency should have been taken to secure Tasers and other forms of weapons that could take down an unarmed man without killing him.
It is amazing to me, the self elevated people who have nothing else to offer, other than troll a blog and try to debunk other people’s comments. Offer a little more real insight, an unbiased suggestion and a few facts yourself instead of always trying to one up another poster. Maybe someone will listen to you.
You are putting way too much on the capability of a dash cam/body cam. Many do have these. Shit still happens. It won’t “put an end to all of this BS”, as you stated.
They’re not magic. If you want change. Be change. Go fundraising for your magical musical camera’s that stop all BS and.put an end to it all. Your comments…bleh.
Again, another posting thug who is only interested in confrontation.
You don’t know me or what I have done to create change so I’ll let you figure out what to do with the initiative you just attempted to hand me .
I would like to know though, since you have stepped to me with so much indignation – What have YOU done? The person who is so fed up with the lawless.
It is obvious. NOTHING. -other than perpetrate the same mindset that have tipped a lot of people over the edge.
It also obvious, you don’t care about change. You don’t even care about real dialogue – you only care to argue and incite discord.
You are the worse type of thug. You are a poser. Get out of my face. Coward.
WoW. Room on the soap box? Please? Get over it. I don’t need to explain shit. Nothing personal. Commenting on Comment’s. You are attacking. Have a good one. You is special!
What is even better San d, I was trying find your post that I read last night that was further down the thread. I thought is was well thought out and very well put. I do not post how you might and that’s ok. I’m pretty sure that’s the point. I go post to post. I agree with some comments and disagree with others. Like you. One post was laughable. The other was great. I can appreciate that. As I feel others probably feel the same about mine. But I won’t spew the hate directly. ..However a little sarcasm is always fun! Try it.
I think this whole thing has just completely spiraled out of control. At this point it just seems like everyone has their mind made up about the situation and are ignoring the facts and new details that keep coming to light. It starting to look more and more like a justified shooting as more details come out. It looks like with the 4 shots in the arm that the cop did try to wound him at first but big mike tried to tackle or something and that’s how he got shot in the top of the head. See had he just accepted the arrested like a normal person would’ve sorted this mess out in with lawyers in the court room. More justice would have been done if the police were being racists. But he didn’t, instead he wanted to play mma fighter and it started a rebellion – now more people are dead and the city is destroyed all because he didnt want to pay for some cigars & walk on the sidewalk. Smdh
as a white woman from northern Wisconsin, I’m trying to see both sides of this……the black community (and others) are upset with the excessive force, obviously. However, I see the video of Mike B. assaulting/robbing a store owner, an unarmed store owner. Why aren’t the people upset with how he man handled that very small store owner just trying to make a living? Then this guy gets into some sort of scuffle with a cop…….the guy had no respect for anything……..none, he steals, he trys to tangle with a cop……I dont understand the outrage, it just seems like, if you live like that your going to die like that as well. I want to see both sides of this, I’m having a hard time understanding why they, in protest, go and destroy their own community.
Many people are taking out their years of life’s frustrations. It doesn’t matter what you or I think, we are white women thusly either racist or unable to understand.
I was harassed by a CHP officer for about 8 years. He stopped me several times, had me searched, dumped my backpack ect. I knew what he was looking for however he didn’t have a reasonable right to do what he was doing.
I talked to someone and the officer backed off which gave me the opportunity to wave whenever I saw him. Steam came out of his ears.
This officer actually threw me against my car once. I was clean, all he had me on was sagging seat belt ticket.
As a white woman I could not claim racism but I was targeted so it happens.
I also behaved myself when I was detained but I did have a smart ass smirk.
It took me years to think kinder towards LE.
I agree. As for Mike being a thug and strong arming the store clerk, I have been told:
It was the clerk’s fault for trying to step in and stop Mike from stealing.
The cigar theft was a petty crime…under $100, so it’s ok that he stole the cigars.
Mike and his friend were almost to their destination, so it didn’t matter that they were in the middle of the street.
Mike was getting ready to start college, so none of this should have mattered, since we should be encouraging young black males to go to college. We should let his past criminal activity slide.
Whites were responsible for killing Native Americans, so the rest of us should let other races do whatever the hell they want to do.
IF Mike attacked the cop, that shouldn’t matter, either, since the cop was white, and he gets paid to put his life on the line.
Did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, I am now a racist, because I used the word “thug”. That one was news to me.
My question is: If Mike was NOT a thug, why are there protesters who are “honoring” his memory by being thugs? Seems to me, if the collective “you” want justice for Mike, the sweet and innocent boy, they would stop protesting, and let the investigation run it’s course. How is Mike going to get justice if everyone mucks up the works with speculation and innuendo? I guess we should allow the cop to be lynched, since whites in the past lynched blacks….it’s only fair that whites not be allowed due process, either.
I have a solution: Why not just drop the damn bomb on the United States, and wipe EVERYONE out? Obviously, none of us, black, white, or other deserve to live.
Ok….rant over. I think I need another trip to Narnia.
i still have some rum. 🙂
@Steve Then you ain’t doing it right…
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
TT its a big bottle and i was alone
@ Cat. Good answer. People are too much right now. Hoping cooler heads will prevail?!
I am not defending anyone who is guilty – the verdict is not out on either end. I am saying there is a legitimate concern and anger that needs to be addressed. Most reports say the majority of the protesters are peaceful. No one’s repeating that- or stories of youth (in a news clip I viewed) who formed a protective line in front of businesses that are in danger of being looted and are risking their lives to stand up to the looters. saying, “this is not who we are”. Some of them have had their own stories to tell about the police.
I don’t hear anyone acknowledge even that the looters and rioters are not solely black.
There will always be amoral people who take advantage of unfortunate situations- It seems to be easy to indict a town and a people – and rate them all lawless based on the few who break the law.
As much as I would like to be indignant, I won’t dilute what I know to be genuine concerns with black youth who engage in criminal activity by saying “look at what others did and got away with it.”
There definitely needs to be a real conversation, accountability and stepping up to the plate in our own community. My Fiancé and myself have been having a real discussion for some time about what we can personally do for some of these boys at an age when they can be molded and given a reason to look forward to as great a future as any other child even if they don’t have the good fortune to grow up in a decent home.
But, at the same time it does not erase the very real truth of racial profiling and excessive force by police against black males.
Not all blacks grow up in the hood or in single parent homes or around illegal activity. I was as sheltered as they come- my parents were very strict and raised law abiding well mannered, educated children-and still racial profiling and police brutality has touched my household as it has many of my friends.
I understand your frustration and bewilderment. I too have some of my own.
I am only saying there is a genuine hurt and anger – .
A citizen – both thug and law keeper are already rendered pretty powerless once approached by the police. You are at the mercy of someone who is already given the benefit of the doubt and backed by the city and/or state. And just like a citizen, there are good and bad. They aren’t always good, honest people.
This is why I believe there needs to be accountability on law enforcements end.
Honestly, I don’t believe either side can afford to continue the blame game. But I do believe a very important step in the right direction would be to make the police accountable for their actions towards the public in general by putting those actions on display when they are on duty.
-By doing so, we can cut out these debates and hold both sides accountable when they break the law.
Wow, San D That was a great post. Thanks for writing it.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I 1000 percent agree with you. I never knew it have a word, until I was older. My mother shielded us from the hatred of the world, especially the hatred she receive from her own people, when she started dating my stepfather who was white. At times I would cry, seeing the pain in my mother’s eyes, when she was call every name in the book; for loving the man she loves. We too were harass by the cops, because of the area we live in and especially the blacks one when they notice them together. We were very lucky to move out of the neighborhood we were living in, into a more welcoming place, who didn’t care who was sleeping in my mother’s bed. I wish I can say times has change and we all had grow as people. I have been truly bless to not experience the same pain in my own relationship and even in my life; when dealing with many people from different walks of life. I truly believe in the message of King: that violence will never solve anything, because no one will ever truly listen to the message you’re trying to speak. Sadly the truth has to come from us as people, who try to make a different in our own way. Even with taking a baby step, to mentor young boys and girls in your own neighborhood through church, school, or a program you create; hopefully there is were we can make a different.
Excellent post and great presentation of your perspective without the visceral words we are seeing in response to others opinions. Thanks. Gives me hope that there are millions more like you.
I found it. Wonderfully put. Thank You for sharing. I mean that. This is why I come here. Many different points, views and opinions. Also I would appreciate a name calling now and then. It keep me in line.
This was an excellent post San D
since neither side is happy with how the daily events are being handled I suggest law enforcement back out allow the protestors to protest, destroy, burn, loot, do whatever they want.
Create a large perimeter that protesters cannot cross. Whatever happens within that circle, happens. No police or fire department intervention within that circle since whatever the police do now is wrong.
The protestors want the freedom to protest without intervention, give them what they want.
The city will have to pay the lawsuits about property damage but it would be cheaper than what’s happening now.
the cops tried that a couple nights ago and the next day people complained that the police did nothing
Curfew needs to be established, business need protection as do the streets need to be secured.
That can’t happen so
give them an area to protest in and let it go. Do not go back in until protests are over.
No LE, no fire, no medical.
Nothing else will be blamed on either side and each side is responsible for themselves
LE, Fire, medical needed to stay out. Don’t go back.
Hey, I black thug beat the living shit out of a park ranger in Philly yesterday. The ranger did it right back …because he has been watching this story and did not want to lose his job.
I’m sure the country will be outraged and covering this story 24/7 soon revvy Al n Jessie will arrive shortly, right?? RIGHT??
Teecee, no one cares about the Park Ranger being beat by three black men. I saw that video also.
Disgusting cowardly thugs.
Park Ranger was smart to let them beat him, sad but true.
google the women being beat on the fwy in calif.
TeeFuckhead, you probably invented the story about the Park ranger. Still starting trouble. You miserable goon.
Yes she did and all the stories online with videos of the incident. Try google you goon.
Pkati – the video is real I saw it.
When I said to TeeCee that no one cares, it is true, no one cares about a Park Ranger getting beat by three men.
Teecee did not lie..
Pkati – the video TeeCee mentioned is real, I saw it.
When I said to TeeCee that no one cares, it is true, no one cares about a Park Ranger getting beat by three black men.
Teecee did not lie..
I cant speak for Al and Jessie. I do know that not everyone feels that way. There are good people who want fairness for both sides.
As I have listened to CNN all day, my stomach is now full of disgust and disappointment. Media and the politicians are biased as hell. Black people want to show the big bad police they can’t tell them no anymore, white people want to join them just to prove they aren’t racist. Around and around we go! So let’s address the elephant in the room, there is very little racism but there is a hellavu lot of judgement and stereotyping. When people (blacks, whites, Indians, everyone) sees a group of black teens standing on the corner with their shorts down to their knees like they are going to take a shit on the sidewalk , everyone starts locking their car doors, walking the other way, etc. Why?? Cause that person has had a bad experience with a black thug at some point or knows someone that has. Black people see a group of white rednecks with their Confederate flag shirts and their beer baseball caps, they automatically assume they are racist rednecks. Why??? Cause they or someone they knew has had an experience with a white redneck. You pass a kid in a fancy car with name brand clothes and slicked back hair, everyone automatically thinks it is some rich kid that has ego problems. Why??? Cause they or someone they knew has had an encounter with someone like that. Black people….you want the police to stop profiling you. Then wear fucking clothes that fit, sit up in your damn seat and show some damn respect for others and law enforcement. Stop acting like the white man got you down. When enough people encounter a respectful black men who doesn’t blame others, the profiling will stop. If you are white and tired of the race card being thrown, then stop wearing your south will rise again shirts and acting like this is a fucking episode of hee-haw. Rich people stop being so snotty and forgetting that you are considered privileged not entitled. Until people start looking at their own reflections and the perception they give off to others then nothing will change. As a woman with tattoos that has had piercings and blue hair, I was well aware of what image I was portraying. Never would have bitched cause I wasn’t Fortune 500 material, that people viewed me as some hell raiser who had authority problems. Didn’t matter how good my heart is, my values and morals. All that mattered was the impression I put out to others. But we all know this will never change, its too easy for the black man to blame the white man and the white man to bitch about the thugs and the rich to look down on the poor and every damn one of them condemn law enforcement for enforcing the laws across the board. So I leave with this, either grow the fuck up and carry yourself better or shut the fuck up. We are tired of hearing it!
Oh and start expecting same treatment for everyone. Where was the outrage when the white young jersey officer was murdered in cold blood by a gang member and then the gang members friends put up a shrine?? Or the 63 black people killed in detroit yet nothjng is done to stop the violence. If you want the world to be better hold those responsible accountable regardless of race!
Tamara dear, I’ve heard that there is another surveillance video of Michael Brown leaving money on the counter for the cigars he allegedly stole from the convenience store. He took them in the manner he did apparently because he did not have approproate I.D. This is hearsay, but could you look into it?
so are you saying the manager/owner made a false report when he called the cops about the theft?
I’m not saying anything but what I’ve heard. I saw on another blog (in a comment) that there was a video showing Mike putting money on the counter, but the manager tried to stop him because he was underage. A crime was committed, but if this is true, I’m not sure if would technically be theft.
My opinion at the beginning of this was always on the side of the police. Just because he’s black and I’m black doesn’t mean I have to be on Mike’s side. Before facts began to come out, I assumed that this was another case of “blame whitey” when the boy was probably responsible for his own death. My thoughts were, he probably would still be alive if he hadn’t resisted arrest. BUT then I learned the officer who killed him was not responding to the theft. Then I heard that witnesses reported that he was surrendering. I don’t know what to believe.
What I do know is that we should be telling our young black men DON’T RESIST!!!!! Comply, or die. It’s that simple. And then, if your rights are violated, you will LIVE to sue their asses. This “F*ck Da Police” mentality is getting too many people killed.
Steve, I heard last week that the owner was saying that he did not call the police. A customer in the store at the time called. I don’t think we can count on him for much. He’s afraid, very afraid for his life. This is already costing him a lot. He’s had to hire a lawyer b/c of a theft in his store. Is this a great country or what? I actually am a patriot but this is enough to shake your confidence in law and order.
That is false as the police and the friend have already confirmed they strong armed robbed the place. Its not robbery if you pay.
I don’t know what to say…this has escalated so fast and steady. I believe Mike Brown was just the straw that broke the camel back!
Praying for everyone involved…
I’m curious to see the toxicology reports. If mike was high on something, would that , could that be the reason he kept charging the officer and didn’t surrender or at least stop?
Omg……he paid for the cigars on video? Holy hell. :((…..
Jen is a perfect target for the cigar story. I bet she has already FBed and tweeted the bullshit story….
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Would it even matter if he did pay for them at this point? Meaning, every other thing I see on the news in regards to his age. The man is 17, no he is 18 and on and on…However, now the consensus has been 18?
Let’s say he was either of age and didn’t have appropriate ID or was 17.
At 17, it’s a no go.
At 18 and without proper ID, it’s still a no go. No body is entitled to throw or leave $$ on the counter if you’re truthfully denied by age with lack of proper or any identification.
Not sure if it has been confirmed that he walked out with $49 box or what? Too many different stories at this point. However, are we to believe it’s ok to trip out at 7/11 and just take shut whether we legally can out not? When allegedly we can throw money on the counter and do what we want anyways?
I can’t believe everyone is overlooking the most important part of the story. Brown would have caused second hand cancer in how many people by smoking those cigars? I am outraged and thinking about rioting and looting a Mercedes showroom! Who’s with me?
Hey Frappe
I’ll send ya some cigars fedex overnight express if YOU promise to inhale?
Cohiba please.
Funny that you would think that Tamara….I’ve not commented or tweeted on this case other then here. My Twitter lies dormant for a month or so….My Fb is dormant for 5 months now. You like to think that I’m spewing hatred and Bs? Why? What does that say about you and your thinking. I’m saddened like you that this BS is happening. Very sad case and situation for all that are effected and involved. Clearly, you misjudge me. and I’m sorry that you do…and it only reflects upon you….not me. I’m Multi racial and I’ve White blood in my blood too. I just see what I see and none of us here are Judge n executiiner here. So, I would say to you…..please hold your judgement for me or anyone unless you know them wel
I apologize if I misjudged you, Jen. You just seemed very excited over the “Brown paid for the cigars” story.
Friendsies?
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Of course. Muah. I don’t hate anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I hope the looting n nonsense stops soon.
Thanks Jen. We’re all sorting this out together.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
Stop commenting. at 222. Its a lucky number! Or was that 444 according to Bey n Jay Z? Or was that number 777 Or 111?! Ha. Just trying to bring some levity into a tragic. situation. :/ lol. I think I will only post on the Housewives stuff because this situation is making me sad n nauseated. :/
An interesting (or not) Open Letter to Ron Johnson from a law enforcement officer.
http://m.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j
An Open Letter to Captain Ronald S. Johnson
Chief Ed Delmore |
I have to call you out.
I don’t care what the media says. I expect them to get it wrong and they often do. But I expect you as a veteran law enforcement commander—talking about law enforcement—to get it right.
Unfortunately, you blew it. After days of rioting and looting, last Thursday you were given command of all law enforcement operations in Ferguson by Governor Jay Nixon. St. Louis County PD was out, you were in. You played to the cameras, walked with the protestors and promised a kinder, gentler response. You were a media darling. And Thursday night things were better, much better.
But Friday, under significant pressure to do so, the Ferguson Police released the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown. At the same time the Ferguson Police Chief released a video showing Brown committing a strong-arm robbery just 10 minutes before he was confronted by Officer Darren Wilson.
Many don’t like the timing of the release of the video. I don’t like that timing either. It should have been released sooner. It should have been released the moment FPD realized that Brown was the suspect.
Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your “hug-a-looter” policy had failed.
Boy did it.
And your words contributed to what happened Friday night and on into the wee hours of Saturday. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you said the following regarding the release of the video: “There was no need to release it,” Johnson said calling the reported theft and the killing entirely different events.
Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—bullshit. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown’s mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it.
Let’s consider a few examples:
On February 15, 1978 Pensacola Police Officer David Lee conducted a vehicle check. He didn’t know what the sole occupant of the vehicle had recently done, but the occupant did. Who was he? Serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy attempted to disarm Lee. Lee was able to retain his firearm and eventually took Bundy into custody.
On April 19, 1995 Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hangar stopped a vehicle for minor traffic violations. He didn’t know that 90 minutes earlier the traffic violator, Timothy McVeigh, killed 168 people with a truck bomb at the Murrah Federal Building. But McVeigh sure knew it, didn’t he? Fortunately, given his training and experience Hangar was able to take McVeigh into custody for carrying a concealed firearm. It was days later before it was determined that McVeigh was responsible for the bombing.
On May 31, 2003 then-rookie North Carolina police officer, Jeff Postell, arrested a man digging in a trash bin on a grocery store parking lot—an infraction that would rise to about the level of jaywalking. Postell didn’t know that he had just captured Eric Rudolph, the man whom years earlier had killed and injured numerous people with bombs and was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.
So now, let’s consider Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson’s stop of Michael Brown. Apparently Wilson didn’t know that Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery. But Brown did! And that Captain, is huge.
Allegedly, Brown pushed Wilson and attempted to take Wilson’s gun. We’re also being told that Officer Wilson has facial injuries suffered during the attempt by Brown to disarm him. Let’s assume for a moment those alleged acts by Brown actually occurred. Would Brown have responded violently to an officer confronting him about jaywalking? Maybe, but probably not.
Is it more likely that he would attack an officer believing that he was about to be taken into custody for a felony strong-arm robbery? Absolutely.
Officer Wilson survived the encounter with Brown as did Lee, Hangar, and Postell. Michael Brown didn’t survive and it’s too soon to say if Officer Wilson’s use of deadly force was justified and legal. You and I both know that not all officers survive such confrontations. Officers die in incidents like this Captain Johnson, including a couple that I remember from your own organization:
On April 15, 1985 Missouri Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at a checkpoint; neither Trooper Linegar nor his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a federal grand jury for involvement in a neo-Nazi group accused of murder. The suspect immediately exited the vehicle and opened fire on him with an automatic weapon.
Just a month before, Missouri Trooper James M. Froemsdorf was shot and killed—with his own gun—after making a traffic stop. When the Trooper made that stop he didn’t know that the driver was wanted on four warrants out of Texas—But again the suspect knew it.
So Captain Johnson, I guess the mindset and recently committed crimes of the suspects that murdered those Missouri Troopers didn’t mean anything. The stops by the Troopers, as you have said, are entirely different events right?
Bullshit.
Some information contained in this article came from the Officer Down Memorial Page (ODMP).
Couldn’t have said it better!
that speaks volumes TT
Absolutely amazing and perfectly said! Kudos to this officer!!
Nancy grace just had Michael Brown’s family attorney admit that there was “more than a struggle” in the car and he would not refute reports that the injuries on Michael Brown’s hand was from the struggle!!
Yet they were on the Today show this morning demanding the officer be arrested and tried… So clearly they don’t think the struggle justified the shooting I guess.
I can see their viewpoint as parents. They feel that justice is akin to revenge. But justice is about looking at facts and coming to a fair decision for the officer. It’s the officer that wants justice.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
>
I’m still trying to figure out how stealing, ransacking, destroying other people’s property, violence are what people do to display their anger over what they feel is murder? How are those criminal acts justifiable?
My question is why aren’t the looters and rioters being arrested?? This shit would stop if you take out the extreme. Imo
Same mentality as anti-abortionists who bomb doctors’ offices and kill and maim people. Like killing people is justifiable and furthers their cause. Which of course it doesn’t. Let’s never underestimate people with a “cause.”
This whole case to me is another hyper sensationalized mess on the surface, but any time I hear this story, ( which I’ve heard a lot recently) it reinforces my belief that the function of news is now to divide and distract. This is a real tragedy no doubt, but I think that the aftermath and the bombardment of coverage is distracting us from some seriously frightening realities,
1 conflict in the Middle East, the world itself is once again tightrope walking into potentially devestating territory, nobody wants more war, but using this insane situation, now the focus is shifted away from the world and one sad story of shooting is spotlighted. It is easy for people to get passionate over a single story, our empathy dulls when we try and comprehend 10s of 1000s of deaths of all kinds of people, black white brown ect.
2. I feel this was another attempt to TEST this frightening new hyper militarized police initiative on the American people, the fact that mike strong arm robbed a store is being blasted in our faces, but I think what is more subtly ( or not so subtly)being shown to us is the ridiculous amount of power that the police have now. Thankfully people are not quite ready to accept this yet, but, I feel the more and more familiar the media makes us with this picture the more we will become desensitized to it. This is how it happens, all throughout history, they slowly turn the flame up and hope you don’t jump out the pan. To me the sight of police in camo and army boots driving mine resistant bearcats and launching flash grenades into people’s lawns is worse than a big kid being a jerk and stealing some cheap cigars.
Once again, I believe this is all a smokescreen to cover up forgiven and domestic militarization, a card RIGHT out of the Nazi play book.
I see what you are saying … I do think the media, particularly CNN is making matters worse and really hyping it up. CNN seems to be giving all the people acting a fool and losing their cool air time, when other stations have aired calm rational witnesses, and civilized people airing their concerns. CNN is making this a bigger circus than it would be otherwise.
yesterday it seemed that don lemon was trying his best te get arrested or assaulted when police told them to move.
And Don Lemon SHOULD have been arrested yesterday. He was running his stupid mouth to that cop on camera.
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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CNN was something else last night. Trapper. SMH
I watched all last night and i totally agree. Don Lemon is a joke. The other guy reporting along with him was just as bad. They are supposed to report the news, not get involved or crap out their own opinions.
Don Lemon is a lemon.
Any of you see the gentleman speaking with the media late last night? Not the freelance photographer who got tear gassed pretty good. But the Man who spoke about people being “planted” in the crowd to purposely cause issues? It was interesting.
I have been an avid reader of tamaratattles for quite some time. I have respected the fact that people have different opinions and overall have viewed the comments here as balanced. No more.
As I scrolled through these comments, I saw the ‘n’ word several times and some piss poor justifications for why this unarmed teenager deserved to be killed, including, stealing cigars, robbing a liquor store, or walking down the middle of the street. None of which, last time I checked, was punishable by death. And before someone says it, last time I checked, resisting arrest is not punishable by death either.
I even saw someone say ‘he must have been on drugs’ – where the hell do you people get this stuff? Maybe he was a defiant teenager – do you know any? I bet you do.
Because a cop tells you to freeze (let’s assume) and you don’t, you should be shot? I would think as a 6 year veteran of the police force, you would know how to apprehend an unarmed suspect without shooting him 6 times.
Let’s be clear, I was on the side of not revealing the cop’s name if it meant putting him and his family in danger. Justice should run it’s course. Enough blood, Michael Brown’s black ‘thug’ blood, has been shed. But true balance is understanding a family’s need to know their son’s killer, especially when that person is known.
Just admit it, all of you are old racist white women. You believe the boy deserved what he got for no other reason than he was black and he didn’t listen to a white man who gave him a command. While you all have sons, nephews, cousins and old boyfriends that have shoplifted, robbed, lied, and defied their share cops. Pssst – I’ve seen your bad ass white children act a damn fool in stores, on streets, and in the face of the police. But they are alive to tell the story, because they were just going through a ‘phase’. They aren’t a ‘threat’ or a ‘thug’, right? Right.
I am done with this site.
Fuck you. You don’t know me.
Admittedly I am an old white woman as there is nothing I can humanly do about either, but I won’t permit you to label me a racist because my opinion is different from yours. I am not a prejudical person and I do not discriminate. Since you tagged me as an “old white woman” would you appreciate me calling you an “ageist racist sexist” because of how you prefaced your comment?
Knowing that I am old you should realize that I lived through the 60’s and 70’s as a much younger woman and immersed myself in the cultural and political evolution this country pass through like none experienced before in its history. I attended, participated or viewed many protests, rebellions, rallies and marches which were a sign of the times and have supported more efforts for change than you can imagine. All were peaceful.
Occasionally a protest I participated in would escalate but never to the degree of what these younger protesters have done to the City of Ferguson, and more importantly, to the nation. It is disgraceful. I can hardly compare being a part of a sit-in, singing Joan Baez or hugging trees to the ugliness of Ferguson.
Compare those days to what is happening today in Ferguson and it is laughable but guess what? Much of the energy expended then is felt today with a better environment, more services for returning vets, equal opportunities, better jobs for women and so, so much more you fool.
No change comes easy or overnight but there is a saying that anyone can eat an elephant a bite at a time. Now that I have had the blessing of living to an “old” age I see that many objections and reasons for protesting fell flat over the years. Win some, lose some.
What I do know is what makes this country so powerful, a country immigrants flock to daily in the hopes of becoming a citizen, is that there is tolerance, opportunity and freedom. With that comes opinions influenced by life.
So jas, as we said when I wasn’t “old”, peace.
Yay! Now I’m an old white racist thug poser woman. Nice. Hopefully she gets to CuntBasket or CuntSnatchel soon.
You don’t know me. You don’t know what type of cereal I like!
Good!! Thanks for letting us know!!
My comment was for jas – that is if jas comes come back to read our posts!
So was mine. It landed somewhere else…
Actually, i think you are the racist and your views are what is a big problem.
You are full of hate and ignorance and that is a shame and sad
Ok now I am going to tell an unarmed white kid story. I know someone who married a cop with a young teenage son he was raising. Kid was getting into trouble ,put him in private school, moved heaven and earth to try and keep him on the right track. No the thug life was the path he chose. His cousin and best friend came home from college and were trying to get through to him, he was high and threatening, Cousin called his uncle. Upon arrival there was a confrontation. No, his father did not shoot him but he said any other officer would and should have.He arrested him brought in K-9 units, charged him to the fullest. His son spent a couple years in prison, It almost destroyed him and the marriage. The son is out and for a few years they paid,for a weekly drug test . He is doing ok now . My point is that anyone who violently confronts the police should expect to get shot. You have got to be an idiot, mentally ill ,on drugs, a dangerous criminal. The officer doesn’t know. Teach all kids to STFU, and obey the law. Last year there were 105 officers killed in the line of duty in 2013. 179 in 2010. Remember the drunk white newlywed fireman shot in Kansas City, right in front of his bride? Tragic yes, Justified yes. Bad Cop. Good Cop. Mean Cop, Asshole Cop I have met them all. I also think if you run into a bad cop ,you should report them, personally I feel like it is a responsibility. No one wants bad cops.
Has anyone thought :
Hmm if my child or husband were a officer and he shot a wayward child would I be sad that my child or husband came out alive ?
Say your kid came home beat up and robbed by the hands of mike brown.
With no positive intervention he would of been a violent career criminal .
He was going to be stopped one way or another . By the hands of a fellow thug or by the law or by a nice kid tired of being bullied . This is unfortunate and I can’t imagine the pain if losing a child? It must be unbearable but this is what happens when people choose a life of crime .
I dont have the answers as to what should be done but one thing is Parents need to stop excusing their children’s bad behavior from early in life .” you have to bend the tree when its young ” as my people say ,because as we can see not doing so only strengthens bad behavior .
Every open school night i attended for my kids i was appalled because it was filled with dumb parents defending their kids not doing their homework and therefore failing . They argued and defended all manner of bad behavior. The notion of not having to obey rules starts from home . Parents need to do better .
How. Can a community stand up so strong for a person who was wrong .
I could see if he was walking on the sidewalk and the officer ordered him to lay on the ground for no reason . I was with someone when that has happened On more than one occasion …That’s injustice . Not this .
It’s fascinating to me that people are blindly defending someone who was a criminal just because he was black and unarmed . How would the officer know he was unarmed if and I say if mike brown charged the officer .
Would all the rioters and all the people in here be so passionate about injustice if he beat and robbed you ?
Something needs to be done about racial profiling but mike isn’t the poster child for the cause .
This is disgusting and shows how dimwitted people really are . After the facts came in all arguments should of shut down and meetings coupled with action should of been put in place to help wayward youth change their mentality . My God this is America . It can be done .
Sorry that was rather long .. I’m done with this subject .
I am the wife of an officer and my husband has never shot anyone yet I have seen him broken when shots were fired at him and his colleagues. I have seen him broken when he ended a chase where the violater sped 90+ around school buses. I have seen him brokenafter cchasing an armed gunman through our community. But the most I have seen him broken over children being abused, women raped and beaten, seen him cry after notifying family after family of their loved ones deceased. But the worst time is when a fellow collegue was gunned down in Atlanta on a cold winter night leaving behind a wife and two young men. Having to tell his close friends wife she is now a widow because some thug didn’t want to go to jail. Shot him so bad in the face he had to have a closed casket! People want to view law enforcement as robots without emotion. But they get scared like you do, only difference is they have no one to call, they can’t run away. When their minds are screaming to run away, they run towards it. They cry, they hurt, they laugh and smile. They bleed and die like any other person . They aren’t perfect and Lord knows they have bad apples like any group but the 1% of bad apples is nothing to the heart and courage of the 99%. I pray my husband never has to take a life, but most importantly I pray he comes home after every shift. I pray that he gets to see our children grow, that one day I will be old and grey and still holding his hand. I am sure everyone prays the same for their loved ones. Difference between the criminals and law enforcement, criminals have a say in the outcome, have a say in whether they follow the law . Or whether they try to take a life. law enforcement can only react and pray that should that time every come, that they still can go home to their families.
@mrsgsp I understand you 100%. My final words every night to my husband before shift were always “stay safe.” It’s a difficult job but a rewarding one too.
Mine to my police officer husband are “I love you very, very much. Be very, very careful and come home to me safe.” The one day I didn’t say it to him, he was almost killed. I never miss a day.
This is a sad story all around.What the kid did at the store was wrong but people using that to justify him being killed is ludicrous! The autopsy has revealed that most of Brown’s fatal wounds were defensive, meaning he had his arms up in surrender and trying to block the bullets from hitting his torso. Those are distant shots, if he was running towards the cop as some people are claiming,the shots would’ve got better, 9 shells were found, 6-7 hit him. No matter what side you choose to be on, the number of times this person was shot should at least inspire some level of outrage, should it not? Too many officers let anger and hostility overtake the rationale and end up in situations like this.So why keep shooting him? The office could’ve called for backup; he didn’t..He decided to take matters into his own hands because the boys didn’t respect his authority when told get out of the street which most likely angered the officer. Also, Mike Brown was innocent until proven guilty. Even if he was running towards him, his job as the police is to disarm and take him into custody, not use excessive force when he was unarmed.Regardless what the kid did, the cop abused his power for sure. This is a problem across the country that crosses cultural,racial and social lines. The only way these abuses will stop happening is for the people to vote, and use the power that they have to pressure the officials, fire some folks, hire some qualified folks. I hope that justice will prevail.
I hear and appreciate what you’re saying. However, As it has been pointed at NUMEROUS times in the comments. ..I’m not getting that most feel he “deserved” to do for the store incident.
I’m only guessing and in my opinion of comments, most are looking at the incident with the officer. With all of the trickling facts coming and not coming out as soon as all would like…that has caused a lot up uproar.
I agree with a lot of the comments that IF the officer had no clue about the “Strong Armed” robbery, Michael Brown and Dorain did. That would have made their reactions possibly completely different going into that situation, than the officer’s. Got to throw in that allegedly. As we still do not have all of the official reports released yet.
After watching tonight coverage on CNN, it really seems they’re are trying to change the perception of what is happening. Even though it isn’t all peaceful and it isn’t all horrible in the rallies or protests. MEDIA IS A BITCH!
Regardless, I hope everyone finds some sort of safety and peace. Obviously or it appears to me after tonight, they do need to protect the safety of the people who are peacefully in the streets. Not the alleged “few” that are be jackals, just to stir the shit!
Sorry this was such a long post. I spent to long in on CNN tonight!
:(……. Its all a horrific mess and nobody wins. Its a sad tragedy all the way around. Prayers have been sent to all involved and I pray they stop the Violence asap.
mike didnt get shot for stealing. he didnt get shot for jaywalking. he didnt get shot for disregarding the cop telling him to get out of the street. he did get shot for struggling with the officer. the families lawyer says there was a struggle in the car, and that is where HE believes the wound to the hand came from
I have had to take the store out of it. I believe the 3 of them had a complete separate and different interaction happening. And in my above comment, I’m most likely wrong. I have seen many bringing the store incident into it. In a way other than were Michael Brown’s mind and the Officer’s mind would have been at the time. We’re all playing “armchair detective” at this point. And that’s fine. Besides TT bringing us updated information, this is what comments are for. Not everyone is going to agree, like it or understand. It’s deep and emotional.
Life has a funny way of working things out, doesn’t it?
I’m babysitting my loved one. I look at his tiny lil face and said a long prayer, that he has a happy long safe life. I want that for all of our youth n everyone. Gosh….this made me cry.. 🙁 So, sad. I’m going to stay off this site for awhile. Its too much.
They have now reduced themselves to arresting photographers? If I didn’t know any better it looks like something from a Middle Eastern country.
If reporters and photographers would just get out of the way they wouldn’t be arrested! 3 or 4 people were shot last night during the “peaceful protesting” and 31 people were arrested. Every night there has been 100-200 people in the streets, not counting the countless photographers and reporters trying to get the perfect shot. Those not so peaceful protesters are throwing things and shooting from in the middle of the mayhem. What’s the outrage going to be when one of those photographers/reporters are shot because they were more concerned with getting a sound bite or picture then backing up to a safer area?
I’m so over this happening in my town. I’m over the media not reporting what is really going on. This stuff isn’t just happening in Ferguson. The whole St Louis metro city and county is being terrorized. Off duty police officers have been attacked in their homes, families of officers have been assaulted. None of that is making the national news though.
@- Jaysmom I look forward to reading your post’s, as you have been able to give perspective. I keep thinking of all who live there. The news does make it look like a war zone condensed to a few couple streets. However I believe as you also explained, that many many other things are happening. It’s as if everyone’s lives have come to a standstill. My heart does break for all involved. I do hope EVERYTHING starts to calm as time moves forward. Last night when I was watching, a few groups appeared to really really be trying to keep the peace and weed out the instigators. Also they seemed to be working within the crowd, pushing them back, to keep them all safe. All while he spoke with the crowds.
Do you watch all the live coverage late last night? And see why? There is a difference between Essential Media w/ credentials, Credentialed Media and Freelance Photographer’s. Someone got shot right in front of the CNN/Essential Media stationery booth last night, among few other incidents. They did moved them to a different. Staging area. After a nice run around. LoL. If some chose to not listen and move their ass’s…we’ll guess what?
*DID* you watch. Not *Do* DYAC!
Thanks for the update. I took some time away from the constant barrage of rioting news to drink to much and have a pity party last night. 🙂 Sometimes a girl just needs to do that. Anyway. I am avoiding blogging today by watching Bachelor in Paradise. A bit of vapid reality TV is in order.
So please feel free to provide updates here.
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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The coverage is overboard because all the 24 hour news station need stories. So they are covering and spinning ad nauseam. They dug up all kinds of shit to keep the story going then needed another angle so they created conflict by embedding Don Lemon to ask stupid questions. Outsiders and hoodlums are also escalating the situation. There will be no joy in Whoville until everyone realizes what it’s really about and therefore the grinch doesn’t win. I hope all of Ferguson figures out the best strategy to attain their goals. In the meantime I stay away from all the crazy network and cable media outlets, peek in here now and then to chuckle at the craziness this event has caused. Please blog Botched
Did the officer attempt to tazer Mr. Brown prior to firing his weapon? Or did he only fire his weapon?
The police dept doesn’t have tasers.
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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I wondered about that, thanks for the info.
I hate these types of stories. Very sad. A young person is dead, a man’s career possibly destroyed, grieving parents, and people using the tragedy to promote their own agendas.
Just making sure y’all know there is a new post. I know some of you stay in this posts comments all day. It was getting a bit confusing with the nesting of comments. You are welcome to continue to post here, just wanted to make sure you knew..
http://s17948.p858.sites.pressdns.com/2014/08/19/another-young-black-male-shot-by-police-in-st-louis/
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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This is a small municipality with only 53ish police officers. They do not have the funds for tasers, dash cams, etc. Actually they did receive a grant from the county and earlier this year they received some dash cams, but have not had them installed in any of the cars yet.
At this point I just wish the details from the investigation would come out. I know that will likely make things worse, but I don’t see an end to any of this until then.
Any news today, Jaysmom? I’m taking a break to work on other things.
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:
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Sorry this nested improperly above…
[b]Welp another young black male was just killed by the police. A thug twice robbed a convenience store and the cops were there for the second event. This time the thug has a knife. He supposedly yelled for the officers to shoot him now. Or asked if they were going to shoot him now…
Here we go again. And yes, this was Ferguson. Correction it was within the city of St. Louis. [/b]
good. one less thug.
I started a clean page for us as this one is getting really hard to follow.
http://s17948.p858.sites.pressdns.com/2014/08/19/another-young-black-male-shot-by-police-in-st-louis/
I saw it. Thank you. I just wanted to give TeeCee a break. I’m over being politically correct. The nicer you are, the more people feel they can shit on you.