Today in court the exact charges that will be given to the jury will be revealed. These charges will likely go to the jury on Friday. The jurors will be asked to find George Zimmerman guilty of one of the following three offenses: Second Degree Murder, Manslaughter and Aggravated Assault. They will be listed as far as we know now in that order. This will be important to remember as you read further, as there is one charge that has the potential for a much lower sentence than the rest, and it is not the one you think. The jurors have a fourth option of finding the defendant not guilty on all counts.
Florida’s 10-20-Life law imposes more severe penalties for crimes that involve a firearm. This law is in play for all three possible guilty verdicts because Trayvon Martin was killed with a firearm.
The law has two cases in which sentencing is increased by the use of a firearm :
1. Any felony in which a firearm is used is reclassified as follows
A. In the case of a felony of the first degree, to a life felony;
B. In the case of a felony of the second degree, to a felony of the first degree;
C. In the case of a felony of the third degree, to a felony of the second degree.
In this case, 1(b) is the relevant point.
2.For “enumerated” felonies, a Mandatory-Minimum Prison Sentences must be served if the following apply as determined by a jury through special jury findings, which they return along with their primary verdict.
A. Possession of Firearm during commission of the enumerated felony (10 year minimum prison sentence);
B. Discharge of Firearm during commission of the enumerated felony (20 year minimum prison sentence);
C. Discharge of Firearm causes death or great bodily harm during commission of the enumerated felony (25 year minimum prison sentence and maximum sentence of life imprisonment).
Here is the relevant part is 2(c). But you are going to have to follow this closely.
Let me try to list the sentencing parameters for each of the three charges if guilt is determined:
If Zimmerman is convicted of Second Degree Murder, the judge would be required to impose a 25 year mandatory-minimum prison sentence and could sentence him up to life in prison.
If Zimmerman is convicted of Manslaughter, because Manslaughter is not considered an enumerated felony under the 10-20-Life Law there is no mandatory minimum sentence. The maximum sentence is up to 30 years in prison or 30 years of probation.
Here is the weird part. If Zimmerman is convicted of Aggravated Assault, the judge would be required to impose a 25 year minimum-mandatory prison sentence and could sentence him to life in prison if she so decided.
This seems crazy to me. I am getting this information from Richard Hornsby’s blog. The blog discusses all the possible lessors, but I have put only the lessors that the court agree on today. Hornsby was very credible during the Casey Anthony case and is a criminal defense attorney from Orlando, Florida. It makes no sense to me that Manslaughter gets bumped up to Second Degree but Manslaughter is not considered an “enumerated felony.” Yet Aggravated Assault under the 10-20-Life rule gets bumped up to a FIRST DEGREE FELONY and has the same sentencing as second degree.
Okay just as I was about to post this I heard Jinkasaurus say on Jane Valez that the minimum sentence for aggravated assault is three years. So I went and read three more sources. While Jink is correct, that there is a minimum sentence of three years for aggravated assault, if a firearm is used in the commission of the assault, 25-year to life term if the accused discharged the firearm and killed or seriously hurt someone. I also figured out why the law applies to aggravated assault and not manslaughter, the 10-20-Life statute enumerates the applicable crimes, (I was thinking the word enumerates referred to first, second and third degree, that was an incorrect assumption) the statute enumerates MURDER (all degrees) and Aggravated Assault but for some odd reason DOES NOT enumerate manslaughter. So in this instance Jink is incorrect and you can expect her to recount her suggestion that the minimum sentence for aggravated assault is three years. If JINKASAURUS does not know this, then there is certainly no one on the jury who knows.
Does this make sense to you guys? Don’t you think if the jury sees these three charges listed in this order and wants to do anything other than not guilty they are likely to go with aggravated assault assuming that it is the charge with the least penalty when in fact it is manslaughter?
I would expect for O’Mara to ask to remove Aggravated Assault as a lessor included charge tomorrow based on the 10-20-Life Statute. He may ask for both lessors to be removed, but Aggravated Assault is the most dangerous charge currently under consideration.
UPDATED: It seems that the prosecution magically decided overnight to replace Aggravated Assault with Third Degree Murder based on Child Abuse. The judge said while talking about other things that Aggravated Assault did not apply. This is dirty pool by the prosecution. WEST is pissed.
IF the jury is charge to consider 3rd Degree Murder, the judge would be required to impose a 25 year minimum-mandatory prison sentence and could sentence him to life in prison. So in essence, it is the same sentence if they had gotten aggravated assault. They are going to come back to this.
Now they are arguing about the language in the proposed instructions with regard to justifiable homicide..
could it have something to do with intent? Manslaughter is when things go bad and end with death. The others all have the intent to commit a crime.
Seems so convoluted and like a dirty trick. When politicians want to get elected or re-elected, they go tough on crime and pile up these enhanced charges. In the case of Florida, who else remembers the huge spike in gun violence ten years ago? I just remember tourists from all over were getting shot, regular citizens, drug wars, etc. I imagine this grew out of all of that. I am not sure that we should re-think why jurors shouldn’t be privy to this when we ask them to make huge decisions even up to imposing the death penalty.
The prosecution was attempting a hail-mary pass in total desperation. They are absolutely DESPERATE to convice Zimmerman. Moves like the magic over-night charge taint the entire prosecutorial/judicial system. I don’t know if there’s much left of integrity in our legal system.
I don’t get why there is a straight manslaughter lesser included charge. They should have chosen “Aggravated Manslaughter.” This is an enhanced form of manslaughter that is more serious because it involves the death of a person under 18. This charge carries the possibility of a life sentence and would apply in the case because Trayvon was a child.
Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child is not applicable in this case. That charge involves the death of a child involving neglect. It’s usually use against a parent or child care giver.
You are right Tamara! I didn’t read the definition closely enough. You are on top of your game!’
I try. Thanks.
That is crazy! They are covering every base. I am confused as to why Stand your Ground has not been used if these truly are the sentencing guidelines.
He had the opportunity to a stand your ground hearing prior to trial……he declined…….had he been successful, the trial would have been cancelled…stand your ground in a regular trial cannot be used
Thanks T-mo I keep telling everyone THIS IS NOT A STAND YOUR GROUND CASE. But they don’t seem to believe me. 🙂
They don’t believe you because the sensational media crones and hacks love to latch onto a catch-phrase, whether it continues to be accurate or not. In this case, the media continues to refer to “Stand Your Ground.” Cheap and easy reporting.
OK, thank you, I did not know this.
So, the jury won’t know what time he might spend in prison with each charge? That’s messed up. If I’m reading correctly he’s either got to be found not guilty or charged with manslaughter and hope the judge gives him a lite sentence, otherwise he’s looking at 25 years at the least. Right?
correct. And this judge doesn’t seem like the light sentence type.
Wow. Thanks for the information. If he is convicted, will he have the right to appeal? Could the defense team at that time bring up the possible cover-ups and conspiracy plots (supposed), also the partiality of the judge and use that as grounds for the appeal?
Correction HE CAN APPEAL BASED ON WHAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE CHARGE TO THE JURY. IN THEORY, the jury is supposed to make their verdict based on very specific items for each charge. For example the biggie on 2nd degree is ill-will, hatred, spite and evil intent. If they don’t find that they move down the list. BUT IN PRACTICE, juries often want to find guilt in something, even when they don’t really meet the requirements for any charge. They aren’t supposed to do this, but they agree on what is called a compromise verdict. They pick for example what THEY PERCEIVE is the lessor, lessor. In this case one would assume aggravated assault would be the compromise verdict. HOWEVER, it has the same penalites as 2nd degree due to Florida’s 10-20-Life enhancements for use of a fire arm. So if they do go for a compromise verdict, they are not going to like it when they find out it doesn’t matter with regard to sentencing.
You may notice my lazy behind got out of bed for this part of the trial this morning. That is because this is the most important part of the case.
If you want GZ to serve as much time as possible, you should hope that all three choices stand. He can get 30 years on any option and Life on 2nd Degree or Aggravated Assault (depending on the judge’s sentencing).
If you believe this case is justifiable homicide, you are hoping that 2nd degree is the only choice on the jury instructions.
Manslaughter is in. I figured it would be, My understanding is that it is a mandatory lessor. I think the defense MIGHT get rid of agg assault. But with this judge, you never know.
WAIT WHAT? They are going for THIRD DEGREE MURDER? BASED ON CHILD ABUSE? This is news to me. I thought since they did not mention that yesterday it was off the table! I don’t think this one will be allowed.
Remember who the judge is… she’s tough and possibly under pressure from outside forces to let the prosecution go for a hefty charge. But, I’m like you, I don’t see how they can do this.
I’m going to predict that manslaughter is the only lessor, just like I did last night. But we shall see. I am fascinated by this part.
Wow…I’m very impressed by your posts! You know your stuff!
I just rushed to this post to declare that they are still all insane in Florida. This is beyond absurd. When you see pictures of TM, does the word child come to mind? Please don’t throw eggs at me. I fully understand that TM was someome’s “child”, but please be truthful enough to admit that you would not think of the word child first when you see him in photos. For that matter, I have wanted to say for many days the GZ is someone’s child, too. My son is 40, 6’3″, and a little overweight, but when I see him, I see my firstborn child. Someone NEEDS to ring a saniety bell in that courtroom. This judge should be removed from the bench and today would be a good day to do that.How can the defense defend their client in this atmosphere? And, how FOOLISH do the prosecutors look now by throwing in a charge like this? Last night I heard Sunny Holstin, who use to be on Court TV and was always the for the defense, call the prosecutor Lawyer McDreamy. Really???
To be fair, he is kinda dreamy. Which is why he will give the final closing. 🙂
I’m sorry TT, but he lost hot points with me when he straddled that balck dummie yesterday. Also, the more their case sank the more his eyes bugged out in the last days.
They are going by his age. 17 years old is considered a child. I know some 12 year olds that are 6’0″.
Well, even BDLR couldn’t decide which one to use. He would start by calling him a man or young man, or even teenager, realize what he just said and then trip over himself in haste to make the correction and call him a boy.
Just laughing so hard at Nancy Grace calling the defense a MONEY MAKING MACHINE with its donation button, lol. Nancy looks high on cold medicine.
Ya, heard that too. Like BDLR and his lot don’t have the same thing.
OH the state is changing from agg assault to third degree murder. Hopefully, that means agg assault is off the table. The defense is PISSED that they are blindsided by 3rd degree when they prepared to defend agg assault.
Also WEST is arguing this in an angry manney. THIS IS OUT RAGEOUS that the state would do this at this time. We are entitled to respond to this in a meaningful way.
The judge says she gets stuff late all the time. Let’s go on to argument.
West says they are not prepared to argue this because the state didn’t tell them about this last minute decision to go for third degree murder based on child abuse.
West is furious. The judge goes silent. She is trying to justify the state’s request. She says the possibility of 3rd degree.
She is now saying that the facts did not support agg assault. She is offering him time to research third degree. West says THIS IS A TRICK!
She says they will come back to this one. It sounds like she may not allow it eventually.
How can you try a person for one thing and then add another charge at the end?
I don’t see O’Mara in the courtroom. There is a female atty there in his place. My guess is that he is researching the 3rd Degree charge based on child abuse since the prosecutors are playing dirty pool and did not give them advance notice.
I heard Mr. West say earlier that O’Mara was preparing for the closing.
JUDGE ACTUALLY GIVES ONE TO DON WEST! With regard to justifiable homicide instructions, I believe.
did West just say that GZ followed and approached TM but thats not some kind of provocation?
This is so insane, arguing on whether it’s against the law to follow someone – Judge: cite the law, West: there is no law. Judge: they you can’t tell the jury it’s not against the law to follow someone. Where is the common sense in all of this! Whoops! West just got called on the carpet for arguing with the Judge..
Don West wants to include in instructions that Following someone by foot or by car is not a criminal act. The judge says there is no basis for that instruction in previous case law.
Judge allows West to continue talking. West says that in the media people are saying that “if GZ were following TM then he is guilty of something.” That is not true. The prosecution wants to suggest to the jury that the act of following TM is illegal. West wants it to be clear to the jury that under the law following is not unlawful activity. It is their theory of defense.
State argues that the media is irrelevant in the jury instruction. State says that listing of what is not illegal (gave examples like walking with a bag of Skittles) is what confuses a jury.
Judge says that WEST needs to show her case law or legislation showing that this is appropriate instruction. Judge does not allow defense to put it in.
West disagrees. Judge is now reprimanding West for continuing to argue with her rulings. She says West is constantly disagreeing. West makes a motion in limini to have the Judge disallow the State from saying it is unlawful to follow someone. The Judge is not going to do that. Motion in limini is denied.
Don West is trending on twitter. That TL is very interesting….
Defense wants an instruction about circumstantial evidence. I don’t think they will get it, but they have been arguing about it for awhile. I was correct. Judge denied instruction. West actually kept his mouth shut and did not argue.
The state wants to add in the instruction with regard to weighing evidence that they can consider that witnesses received financial benefit for testifying,” the judge denied that as misleading and says that the expert witness instruction covers that.
There is a conversation occurring between the police officer in the well behind GZ and the officer in the row behind GZ…. dunno what is up there.
Judge is going back to 3rd degree. She seems to have some issues with whether or not there is an intention of child abuse. It sounds like she is already leaning toward NOT included 3rd degree. She is going to give the defense time to prepare to argue that. I hope O’mara argues this.
There is now some discussion about defining great bodily harm. I am fine with the states changes. West disagrees. West says that the state is attempting to dismiss the focus away from great bodily harm. West says it is not about sustaining great bodily harm. It is about fearing great bodily harm. West says the basic supreme court instruction does not define great bodily harm Judge shoots back substantial case law where it was defined. West asks if the court has read the cases. She says she has read the synopsis. West said the ones the state gave you? She says yes. West says they are not accurate. West is now presenting an oral synopsis of the caselaw that the State cites as cause to include. West says the jury should not have their attention focused to what the actual injuries are, because no injury is necessary to BELIEVE you are in great bodily harm. Therefore GZ’s actual injuries are irrelevant to the charge. This is a good argument from West. I now agree with him. Let’s see what the judge says. This in not something that fits in with the law for self-defense cases. There is no definition for great bodily harm.
The state responds that the standard jury instructions provide no definition of great bodily harm. That is why in the cases cited by the state, the special instructions on great bodily harm were included.
The judge says that the instruction that the state wants to differentiates between great bodily harm or moderate harm, or trivial harm. She indicates that the definition is irrelevant. She is going to rule not to allow it. The state is hustling to change her mind. She denies the state’s special instruction of great bodily harm.
There was a bomb threat across the street from the courthouse.
That’ll probably be the least of it after the verdict is in. People in the area should prepare themselves now. Keep safe.
Candace, unfortunately I believe it will be bad all across the US. I’ve already heard people romanticizing the Watts Riots of the 70’s. There was nothing quixotic about it. The US held it’s breath for 3 days in August of that year. Praying that we will love our neighbor as ourselves.
Peach, that was probably Nancy Grace screaming “Bombshell Tonight!”.
hehehe sandra, roflmao AND snorting at the same time……..! thanx! (random italian gesture which i know but you have no fing idea………:-) )
Worked in Little Italy for 5 years, I get the idea…
Moving on to the verdict form. West says the form is confusing. It starts with guilty of second degree. The gun offense needs to be separated out as an individual charge. The judge agrees. But West wants Not Guilty to be on the same page as the guilty boxes. This seems reasonable. But not to this judge. West wants the order of the verdict to be 2nd degree, Manslaughter the 3rd degree. West is an idiot. He does not seem to realize tat 3rd degree is an enumerated offense. He needs to keep MANSLAUGHTER LAST. BIG MISTAKE WEST.
Some tape is being removed from evidence because it was not played for the jury. West used a transcript when questioning Rachel J.
West is saying he will do his best, it is only an hour for him to respond to 3rd degree which the state only told defense about this morning. Everyone seemed calm and reasonable except for that one outburst by West. After that things calmed down. We are adjourned until 1 pm
I would think that the charge with the most time, would be first.
It should be, but West DID NOT KNOW THAT 3rd DEGREE WAS AN INUMERATED OFFENSE under 10-20-Life. That is inexcusable. I KNEW IT. How did Zimmerman’s defense attorney not know it. I expect for him to come back and ask for it to be changed back IF 3rd comes in which I do not think it will. If it does, GZ is probably getting life.
Well, I should not say “probably getting life” I mean “probably getting life” if the jury finds him guilty of 3rd degree murder.
As they say welcome to the sunshine state. It’s on billboards. 10 -20 life using a firearm.
If you follow me on twitter, could you please RT my tweets about this morning’s case? Thanks.
Will do
The creepy twitter accounts are beginning. I post this here just to show you….PLEASE DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THIS PERSON. https://twitter.com/ZIMMERMAN_HATER
I’m not on twitter. Can someone report this user?
I can, but I haven’t yet because they just created the account. It is creepy that I was like his third tweet. I am waiting for him to hang himself before reporting.
Trying to goad you into a reaction, most likely.
George looks like he is on extra anxiety meds for the prosecution closing. So far this closing sucks. ENOUGH with the skittles and tea, unless there is some relevance. This guy has “Nurmi Pause” a speech impediment where one makes longass dramatic pauses for no fucking reason.
I just clicked on the link and the account has been suspended!
Good
I went there… you know I’m a techno-idiot about twitter. The account has been suspended. It had a short lifetime.
Y’all rock.
audio is back on live feeds. Court is about to reconvene it seems.
We are back and state is already giving more case law on the 3rd Degree murder instruction.
YAY! As I predicted, the judge didn’t even hear defense argument, she said she is not including 3rd degree based on child abuse.
I always assumed that the jury forms were standard, I never realized that the jury instructions are tailored for each case. There are so many opportunities to make administrative errors. This is why half the time while you are in jury service, you are sitting in the back room waiting.
There is standard boilerplate that is tweaked for the circumstances of individual cases. This is a good thing. One size fits all instructions are not appropriate in all circumstance.
With regard to language for justifiable use of force they are trying to make it clear GZ was not charged with manslaughter and the language was ambiguous. Nothing major. Changing some plurals to singular due to no inclusion of manslaughter. Judge asks if defense has any other substantive changes. They seemed shocked she is asking and sort of muddling around. The answer should just be no as to not to piss her off. They got what they wanted they just need to say “No your honor, thank you.” Which is finally what they just said. Big win for the defense. Everything is all set. Now the state just needs to type everything up so the judge can charge the jury, I am presuming she will do that before the state begins it’s closing. We are recess until 1:40 EDT.
If the state can change the charges after a trial has concluded, there is no valid trial at all.
This is a mock trial, worth nothing. It’s a show trial, from start to finish. It’s insanity.
The judge is unhinged.
There are always lessor included charges, again in most cases this is good for the defendant, they can give him a lesser charge and not have to decide between a life sentence or nothing. HOWEVER, in this case it is very detrimental to the defense because of the mandatory minimum 10-20-life statute. It’s all perfectly legal and normal.
Thankfully the judge made the correct decision in deciding that the POSSIBLE lessor of 3rd degree did not apply in THIS CASE.
And so begins the prosecution’s closing….
A teenager is dead. He is dead through no fault of his own. He is dead because a man made assumptions, he acted upon those assumptions…
Anyone else say, “Tried to start some trouble in the neighborhood” each time the prosecutor says “Up to no good?” No? Okay me neither.
I’m bored. And his high pitched indignation is annoying. Oh wait he wants to talk about the witnesses. This should be amusing.
I think his closing argument kinda sucks myself. His voice is annoying me too so I thought it funny you mentioned it. He hasn’t really said anything profound or convincing IMO.
He is dull and not very good at this. YAWN
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I spent most of this closing rolling my eyes, muttering under my breath, and yelling “whaaat!?!?” at the tv.
He reminds me of some old timey preacher, “I’ll make you choose 2nd by screaming at you!”
This power point is poor for a fifth grade speech student. He is bullet pointing THE PROBLEMS with his witness’s testimony in the PROSECUTION powerpoint. Then he bastardizes an MLK quote? Judge her on the content of her testimony and not the color of her personality? He is making her testimony even worse than it was before. Are they TRYING to lose this case? He is now admitting she lied. And says you can disregard her testimony because of that? IS THIS MAN SERIOUS?
Boy oh boy they are about to come up to date with technology when the defense plays the animation.
The time line board was pretty bad too, colored paper and strip tape. The defense is going to rock it with the animation, it’s cool.
BDLR using Rachel Jeantel and her testimony for a large part in his closing argument. And a lot of that time was spent describing her background and lack of schooling, unsophistication, but not so much on her actual testimony. Is his case dependant upon RJ? It sure sounds like it, because he doesn’t have a whole lotta anything else, except assumptions, which he clearly outlined at the beginning.
I think, though, that in his first utterances, he pretty much connected with what alot of people not on jury duty (and, often, not necessarily trial watchers) think. He connected with those who feel this whole situation was due to GZ getting out of his car. (should that have been 2 paragraphs, TT?????????———just joking)
Hey TT, is this entire afternoon gonna be prosecution? i thought i heard something about 3 hours…………….of this?
Just two hours of prosecution today with a short intermission. Then defense tomorrow morning. I have a 1 o’clock with the damn head shrinker tomorrow. this is problematic.
The tight pitchiness of DLR’s voice makes MY vocal chords hurt.
I am having to rely mostly on audio right now, I get a distinct Dr. Phil vibe.
All I know is this is making me hungry for Skittles
hitting that medicinal, huh, Isabella 🙂 eat a bag for me, just started Atkins (again)
“Skittles that he didn’t even steal!!! My be the most racist thing said in this trial.
BINGO!
Sometimes I have to shake my head and ask if I heard right. WTF?
Doing a great job for your client there.
Oh Lawd… Did they not put the prosecutors through “sensitivity training” before the trial?
I now have a much better idea of racism in America. I guess it is easy to be an observer when things like this have not touched you personally but as a white woman, had that prosecutor spoken down to me like that and I were on the jury, I probably would acquit. I did not see a single thing that would make me vote for second degree murder. Maybe manslaughter but definitely not second degree. Skittles and syrup aside, this man had an opportunity to speak facts not stereotypes and he blew it big time.
yeah girl, agreed
Is this guy using reverse psychology? Let’s make our witnesses look bad, say their stupid, state that they lied, and use racial slurs….
Juan did a lot better raising his voice in the JA trial than this guy ever will. Juan was just no nonsense, this just is just annoying. I can’t wait for the defense to present tomorrow, O’Mara is so suave and even tempered.
Hi TT, I apologize in advance for being obtuse, but what charges did they all finally settle on?
2nd Degree and Manslaughter. Big win for defense.
Ok, just heard it: 2nd degree, manslaughter or not guilty. Isn’t that what they started with?
not yesterday state was going for agg assault. but this morning they tried the old switcheroo for 3rd degree instead… scroll back up and read my bolded posts for details.
SDLR says “let’s talk about ill-will” then he sort of sputters and mumbles and says he didn’t even know the addresses. The next thing you know he is making a case for manslaughter. Which reminds me, she didn’t charge the jury before the closing. She should have.
Dude has nothing left to say. This is today beyond bad.
BSLR “We don’t have a whole big animation of what happened.” SMH. Now he is flipping through the power point half heartedly reading a couple things. Its literally insane. He is not speaking in complete sentences, just Think about this…. pause …oh look I saw something shiny.
He doesn’t even ask the jury to find 2nd degree. More like, just do your best.
If Bernie had thrown one more punch, he would have completely knocked his case out! I kept having to remind myself whose side he was on. I can’t wait to read what y’all saw!!!
Just heard BDLR say that GZ’s message to his wife was “just tell her I killed him”. I thought I remembered that GZ only said that he “shot” someone. Anybody else remember what the actual version was?
BDLR using inflammatory language.
IT WAS ‘tell her I shot someone” though BDLR said killed at least twice.
ditto—–i saw only a little and caught that one…no objection to mis-statement of facts? and btw, did anyone catch in the opening that he said once that TM was 15 going on 16? was that right or do my ears deceive me? thought he was 17 (makes a difference to moms)
gawd Doc, so much mis-statement of facts from BDLR, but MOM will probably use that against prosecution tomorrow. Foisted by his own petard (sp) as the saying goes.
Rose likes MacBeth, so I will quote “Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.
Has anyone heard from Rose today?
Rose must still be at the hospital.
And generally in closing the attys have a lot of free reign. Most attorney’s follow an unwritten rule of not objecting during the closing. Remember when Nurmi and Whatsherface objected during JM’s close. That flies in the face of the unspoken rule. It has to be some MAJOR something before most attys will object. That said, misquoting the defendant TWICE as to saying “just tell my wife I killed someone” I think would be reasonable to object to In a murder trial. I think Mark will just address that In his closing. Frankly BDLR was so bad, I don’t think he wanted to interrupt him from blowing is own close.
Thanks TT. I will bet you a bag of Skittles that BDLR will be objecting tomorrow during MOM’s closing, especially if he is doing well (which I expect he will). BDLR will try to throw him off his groove, and divert jury from what is being said.
Also, BDLR set great store in TM’s hoody drawstrings, how one was waay longer than the other. So out of curiosity, I went to You Tube and watched the 7 11 surveillance footage. One draw string was already longer than the other because I could only see ONE swinging around in the footage. Try as a might, I could not see two. Anyway, OBJECTION, FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE!!!!
watching closing on youtube………..he said 15 cents in his pockets………..another mis-statement………..eh? FWIW
And way to go, BDLR! Insult the neighborhood! Go ahead and say it isn’t some fancy neighborhood where all the houses are different, go ahead, call the houses “cookie cutter, all the same”. I hope some of the jurors live in similar developments and feel offended.
He really was so offensive. When you could stay awake and not doze off, he was just a lying liar face.
Doc and Sandra, wait until you get to the part where he says “All Trayvon had in his hand was Skittles AND HE DIDN’T EVEN STEAL THEM!” I am not kidding.
Doc…..Trayvon had just turned 17. ~ Feb. 5, 1995 – Feb. 26, 2012
i must correct………..maybe he said $40.15 in pocket which is apparently what police report says…….so he was unaware of the 0.10 found by ME. i would also note that i saw nothing in police report about a button or pin he was wearing in 7-11…perhaps in ME report (just saying………..sorry, i do investigative work for a living and it is all in the DETAILS)
I never have figure out what the button was that he was wearing. Also I read somewhere he took it off before going in 7-11 if that is true why? but he was wearing the button when shot because the bullet went behind the button.
I’ve never really understood the whole button deal.
He still had the button on in the 7-11 video, he didn’t take it off at all. It was also shown at the scene in the pics, noting the bullet hole was under the button. It’s just a picture of an AA man. I don’t know who or what significance he might have.
OHHHHHHHHH i must have missed it in evidence from both ME and police………….hate to say it or do the work to find out……….anyone know if his headset was enumerated as placed into evidence by police or ME?
The only thing I remember about the button as an issue is that the entrance wound wasn’t initially seen because it was under the button.
It happened during black history month.
Back in the 70’s when we had the ‘groovey’ reel to reels we did a better job of splicing tape than Bernie did today. OMGosh! MOM will play those tapes in full tomorrow and Bernie will look worse than he does today. Last night on Anderson Cooper, Attny. Mark Gregos (sp) called HLN the Hysterical Ladies Network. LOL, for real. Sunny Holstin said he was attacking helpless women and he said yeah, poor Sunny needs help defending herself. She laughed.
Hysterical Ladies Network??? Too funny! Vinnie fits in perfectly!
The following tweet is from Dan Abrams, lawyer, pundit new host of Nightline and formerly of Court TV:
“That was a solid, passionate, emotional and smart closing from #ZimmermanTrial prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda.” Dan Abrams
He is on the record as saying he does not think the state has a legal case to convict. Kinda makes you wonder what he was listening to???
Dan Abrams, IMO, is a pompous egotistical asshole (and that has nothing to do with the fact that he is obviously put off — disgusted? — with Nancy Grace). :-p
hey pura, i ID that little face icon here as a chick or pendajo/a with a bowl in her mouth…!!!! (testing your hippy history here LOL)
Hey Doc! The :-p was intended as a someone sticking their tongue out (like “blah”) but I just don’t have those face icons down. Still working on the pendejo version but afraid it’ll offend those whose sensitivities are heightened. Can’t call myself a hippy with history here…sadly, my history moves more along the lines of disco (ugh) and George Clinton and Parliament. Most of all, I need the funk, help me find the funk:
*Flash light*!!! 🙂
Stoopid question time: are closing arguments limited to only facts in evidence, or can they say whatever they want?
I’m asking this because I just can’t believe what I am hearing from BDLR.
They can say pretty much anything they want. Remember Caylee drown in the pool?
Oh come on! Is the only “last” photograph BDLR can find of TM is the one from the autopsy???? I hope the jury can see through this and I hope they also get tired of being yelled at. Not even Juan Martinez did that, he had enough sense to adjust his delivery.
Can the jury,while deliberating,ask what the penalty would be with the manslaughter charge with a firearm? This is crazy,they may not find him guilty of 2nd. degree murder,but think he should spend some time in jail,not knowing that this charge is a mimium of 25 yrs.The judge,I feel is biased.
The jury can ask but the court will not tell them. It is not relevant to their deliberations according to the law. However MANSLAUGHTER is not an enumerated offense so there IS NO MANDATORY MINIMUM for manslaughter but the maximum doubles to 30 years because a gun was used. So this judge could give 30 years and apparently she is known for long sentences.
I think I read that the ‘button’ was one of those In Memory of buttons (that families get) for his recently deceased Grandmama. I saw Sybrena (sp) tell that story some time back.
I almost forgot to tell you all that the whole top ‘above the fold’ stories on the Drudgereport are TM/GZ stories. WILD!
omg…………Peach “white hispanic”……….drudge pretty interesting.
On racism, i wanted to share that it is not just in this country that people and racist against the darker skinned fellow countrymen. I recall the same sort of bigotry in Mexico. My mother is native Mexicana. the darker skinned mexicans are the maids and laborers………….more looked down upon
My in-laws are from Mexico so I totally understand and watch my hubby face discrimination, with many thinking our marriage was only for the “green card” (not true), even though we are celebrating 7 years together this September. It probably didn’t help that my mother-in-law is only 5 years older than me. :-\ LOL
hehehe Robbing the cradle, Pura
without going into detail……….i got some child shit going down such that i would sure appreciate some prayer here (don’t waste your time typing, thoughts work fine.)
(new paragraph) just keep up the funny wit to get my mind outta here, if possible………xxoo
Picture this, I am campy singing These Boots are made for Walking to Banjo and there was a huge accidental headbutt and well I may have a goose egg, but I am sure it LOOKED HILARIOUS! 🙂
Hang tough. It will all be fine in the end. If it ain’t fine now, It ain’t the end.
picturing……..seeing……………..LMAO (and thanking God your face is still intact) thanx friend!
Well it is a big more….interesting at the moment. lol.
I probably have a closed head wound and will die shortly. When Banjo goes on trial I don’t want anyone mocking my death with just ONE blow to the head.
Girl, had an incompletely screwed on porcelain ceiling light bulb fixture fall from about 12 to back of my head about 6 years ago……………saw stars, literally, groaned and fell back to meet a closet and hit the floor. Gurantee will carry that bump the rest of my life. (btw, my 10 year love contractor/firechief boyfriend was who replaced bulb………never will he live it down)
contractor firechief? *perk*
yea, well, he is awesome, but “a cobbler’s children are always shoeless” has been applicable here for bout 4 years……….(last on the list for finishing contracting jobs)…..on the other hand, he is on duty for 24 every 3rd day and that is just PERFECT for a hard-working chick who loves her space
Wait a minute, Doc are you a girl???
total woman, Linda…………surprised?
The doctor was not the fathers son but the father was the ….oh I forget how it goes. lol
First thing I thought of was an old Peanuts cartoon with Snoopy sitting on top of his doghouse with a typewriter typing: “It was a dark and stormy night. A shot rang out, a woman screamed…”
Closing argument by BDLR :
Brought into closing new information not testified to in evidence:
Said GZ didn’t know name of street, even though lived there for 4 years. What GZ actually said in re-enactment video was that he couldn’t REMEMBER the name of the street. Big diff.
Said GZ’s head injuries could have come from sprinkler box. Huh?
BDLR couldn’t figure out how GZ got wet grass stains on top of shoes unless GZ was guy on top. Conveniently forgot that GZ straddled TM to spread his arms out.
BDLR also said that after shot, TM fell into GZ, whereas GZ said TM fell off of him.
Here’s the biggie for me:
BDLR kept repeating over and over again, ad nauseum, every chance he got about how GZ was following TM. Persistent use of “follow follow follow” (or chase). Take out that one word, then none of his closing makes sense. BDLR’s whole closing argument depends on the word “follow”. Remove it and it all collapses.
Did BDLR actually skip around the courtroom like a demented Little Red Riding Hood?? I would have loved to see the faces of the jurors at that point.
Kept saying that GZ lied, it’s all lies, lied lied lied. Has anyone lied to BDLR with regards to this case and what they saw/heard/knew? Of course not! Don’t be silly.
Here comes the dummy again. Poor thing. BDLR avoids mentioning testimony and demonstration from just the previous day on how straddle positions of the dummy and TM could have changed and shifted during the attack.
Here’s something for you alien buffs out there: How many arms did TM need during his attack on GZ, 2, 3, 4? Even GZ’s parents couldn’t keep a straight face during that bit.
BDLR’s obvious pandering and patronizing statements to the jurors.
The worst part? BDLR STOLE Juan Martinez’s closing argument when he said, “there will be no more photographs of TM”, all the while showing autopsy photo’s from ME’s office.
While discussing GZ’s injuries, and downplaying their severity, I couldn’t help but think, well, at least GZ allowed himself to be injured by TM before resorting to self defense. The law allows you to use deadly force for self defense without actually incurring an actual injury.
So many holes in this closing argument, it was infuriating. Mr. O’Mara has been handed so much to work with.
Couldn’t listen to all of JVM or NG yelling at everyone, just bits here and there. NG sounds like she’s broadcasting from a fish bowl. If those fake eyelashes get any bigger, she won’t be able to hold her head up.
I never thought I would say these words, but CNN & Fox are doing a great job at night of recapping the day’s happenings. Poor NG was so disheartened last night. She finally had to say what a bad job the prosecution had done. She kept asking why this or why that regarding their case. I, too, thought Bernie was copying off of JM’s close. JM is a master and Bernie appears to be a puppet. So very sad about all of this.
I was up until four with BB house drama but I got up this morning to watch the close. Laid my head down for just a second and woke up to the break in his closing. GRRRRR. And I have to go to the doctor at 1. Sounds like things went well according to the talking heads. I will have to watch the croakerqueen youtube.
I hate slimy Mr. Guy, I can’t believe you all think he’s hot, but I’m really worried this is interference for the REAL closing after the defense has their chance. Am I just paranoid?
lol some of the talking heads were trying to #uglybaby their closing by saying they are probably saving the good stuff for rebuttal WTF? So they were shit for two hours on purpose? hot dude HAS to be better.
At some point, don’t we have to admit that Bernie looks like Mr. Magoo or the profile of Alfred Hitchcock? Love the comparison of MOM to Jimmy Dean sunshine man. lol So true.
Bendy, Guy does nothing for me, either…………i am eternally attracted to brilliant, witty, funny guys…………..appearance second.
Doc, I totally stereotyped you as male from being a Veterinarian – my bad! Surprised = yes. You know how you get a picture in your mind!
Linda, i have one guy working for me………….23 years old…..if a new client comes in, they often presume he is th ever. Or they ask him if he plans to go to vet school……Never ask my chick techs the same ?? Funny, we enjoy, and i have someimes taken advantage of that if i am busy and somone walks in for “somthin for nothin” – they’ll start asking him stuff under that presumption, as i quielty slip away back to my work …………( and eventually hear: “oh, you’re not the vet?”) LOL
“th ever” = the vet sorry for typo
Oh, a girl after my own heart — brilliant, witty, funny! Totally agree. (But as TT knows, I probably traded a little bit of number one for a lot more of something far more shallow — looks and, ummm, looks — but I definitely got witty and funny.) 🙂
Ohhh, now I remember, yep, you are the lady with the younger husband! Tips please!
i did the same thing here with 2 out of 5 dogs (“don’t hate be because i am beautiful but about as smart as a rock”)
Does anyone know when Mark O’Mara is scheduled to begin his closing argument tomorrow? I have a feeling that I will miss most of it since we’re 3 hours behind you folks on the east coast.
Closing arguments by Mark O’Mara started at 6:00am your time. FYI – Fox News is showing it uninterrupted, no commercials! How about that HLN?
Oh no, animation problems! The state’s powerpoint isn’t looks as bad now.
Morning, O’Mara is knocking this out of the ballpark so far. Other than a few glitches with the animation, he has been consistent with his presentation. Not using the foul language the jurors had to experience yesterday, I’m sure that may be a relief for them.
heh, cop-wanabism.
I never did get what was wrong with wanting to be a cop and going to school to become one.
Me either, I have about 5 family members that are in the police force. George was only trying to better himself and provide for his family.
I think they are trying to say he was a vigilante. I have to be out for a few hours. I hope y’all do your usual good recapping job.
MOM is BADASS!!!!!!! just catching this
Isn’t he great! He is hitting all the points, very calm, even toned – no screaching, or in your face attitude as with the prosecution.
((falling deeper in love))
Me too! He’s the kind of dream boat I like. Where can I sign up for that cruise?
Hey DocWall, To throw a little sunshine your way … I swear if you watch the Jimmy Dean Sausage / Sunshine guy dressed like the Sun – He looks like MOM or could be his brother… !! 🙂 (Finally got half a day to myself since we’ve been floating in a flooded basement & digging new outside drain pipe since Mon. night’s monsoon rains in our neck of the woods, then tornado warnings & ISP +power outages… So I’ve missed everything/+TT !) All week sucked – Just in time for the jury instructions !! 🙁
i hope is well for you! there’s always youtube (what i have to do often)
I wondered where you were! You lost your place on the commenter list with the most comments and fell off the list entirely!
Is anyone watching the MOM interview on CNN? He is so clear and concise and personable. There are actual odds here in Vegas on outcome/verdict, Manslaughter is 2/1. Second Degree, 8/1. Now that is just creepy
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isabella
Just when we thought we were safe……….:-) !
Not to Worry ! – The verdict is on the way and besides > > We always have the upcoming “Andrea” trial… [<– wringing my hands !] Thanks for noticing, Ladies. 🙂
Turn MOM upside down and it spells WOW!
i mean MOM, not GUY-he rubs me the wrong way. ((((even as we speak)))
whoops, I posted in the wrong side bar.
16 years and 21 days??? twisttwisttwist
If the roles were reversed it would be even easier, TM would be found not guilty.
As the mother of a son of comparable age I too was blinded by media bias and my own maternal instincts; however my ever “graceful, handsome level-headed” son (I’m actually dictating this to my son, as I am neo-luddite) repeatedly reminded me that the facts of the case had yet to be devolved and that as facts emerged my opinion might change. Indeed this trial is the most highlighted case of media sensationalism I have seen in quite sometime. It’s a case of idiocy in the first degree for both sides, but not a criminal one. I’m beginning to truly fear the incompetency of my state’s justice system.
How refreshing that a young person has such an open mind !
PS: Better keep him away from Purvida………she is a cradle-robber!
Doc! He was 29 when I met him. So no cradle, but he’s still my baby!
Hey, my paternal grandmother is going to be 103 on July 28th and she’s had 4 or 5 husbands thus far (lost count). I think I’ll probably outlive HIM. ‘rica
Will the jury deliberate over the weekend, or do they hold until Monday and deliberate at the courthouse? Also, does anyone think they’ll come back with a quick decision later this afternoon. The only way I could see that happening is if it’s non-guilty.
I was wondering about that too. Since they are sequestered, should they not be allowed to deliberate at the hotel perhaps with the supervision of a bailiff outside the door?
I believe they are deliberating thru the weekend. There are already about 10-15 protesters already marching in a circle outside the courthouse. There were hundreds at the JA trial as we waited for a verdict.
If I had to guess, then probably not. Hotel is outside the auspices of the court, with no access to things the jurors might need. Also, security would be a major iissue. Maybe location and name of hotel is secret, but may not be if media and public gets wind of which one it is. They may already know, but if deliberations take place at hotel, the crowds would be unmanageable and also put other guests at risk (fires, riots etc).
If jurors needed support with questions and reviewing evidence, everything is already at the courthouse. Not going to be hauling it around from one location to another and also chain of custody would be at risk with regards to tampering. Probably a lot more issues I can’t even imagine…
According to press, The New Black Panthers Party have arrived in Sanford (these were the guys that put out the bounty on GZ), also the NAACP are calling for a federal civil rights prosecution. Why do people have to act like this? So much for the ministers calling for peaceful protests…..
JURY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so horrified by this case and my shoulder is killing me. My best friend since 1985 is a forensic pathologist , she has been a MD since 1993 she has focused on forensics . On 7/9/2013 she was on a flight to a forensic conference. Dr Dimaio is the man. I asked about Dr Rao and Dr Bao, her response “WHAT THE FUCK< NO KIDDING" When she gets home I will convince her that all of you are required to be smart and articulate . I really am done , I am truly in pain and shit it affects my thought process…….. a knife is stabbing through my back Oh only my percecttion
From what I have seen of McDreamy’s closing it was very good. Good enough to make me nervous.
He did nothing for me, TT. Nor one of my g-friends who is also rather “to-the-point” and a mom, as well. I can understand the heartstrings…………but that kind of over-reaching, based on what jury has heard and seen does nothing for me than to turn me off…………Just MHO
what i heard was “blahblahblah whinewhinewhine” i felt he tried to make the case meet his closing, as opposed to making a closing to meet the case. (shit i’m doing that thing where no one gets what i mean, again, huh?)
Doc, I felt the same way and fear we are both going to be at a Casey Anthony level of disappointment.
Bendy, i have faith in the power of woman to be objective and follow the law.
Doc I agree with you. I was not impressed. He’s just too slarmey for me, he’s like a snake oil salesman! He’d be a really, really bad boyfriend too, too pretty – those guys you got to watch!
I could barely tolerate the rebutal close. I agree, smarmy, smarmy, smarmy.
julie, chronic pain sucs! I feel for you (i have some cervical disc issues that flare up and i find 3-4 days of constant pain is the ultimate downer!)
So, as the resident (doggy) doctor, might i prescribe, 800 mg ibuprofen, (don’t any of you use this on your pets!!!), valerian??, and mostly—–a very large bottle-i mean glass -of a stong red wine. – big enough to change your perception
Do beer instead of wine, hopps can be a mild muscle relaxant.
DID I NOT MENTION I AM ON THE WAGON? (or is it off, I never understood this expression) Whichever one sucks that’s what I am. Because I am a fatass. For all of July and likely beyond. So stop discussing your luscious adult beverages. Please and thank you.
TT – (since you asked ?) – On the wagon (or off) came out of the early 1900’s for the horse-drawn water carts (wagons) which sprayed the dusty streets down in hot summers. During prohibition, though the water was not suitable for drinking, various (women’s) organizations against drinking booze encouraged sobriety in men and the pubs to be emptied. So men who pledged to STOP drinking described their devotion by declaring, “No matter how much they wanted a drink, they would rather climb aboard the “water wagon” to quench their thirst first. ~ Hence the metaphor, “No Thanks, I’m on the wagon !!” TaDa !
JustUs — man, we learn something new every day on this site! TT, you’re just going to have to settle for another means of release while you’re on your quest. I was doing WW for a while and need to jump back on. Somebody told me that they hated giving up the alcohol but they preferred to eat their points. I said, oh no, no, no, no, I prefer to drink my points. But you go girl!