Before I start this week’s post I want to acknowledge that what I am about to post is the sole opinion of Tamaratattles.com based on what I observed in the courtroom of the prosecution’s case in chief. While Tamaratattles.com is my blog, I don’t in any way want to silence opposing viewpoints. As long as we are all being civil, I think it’s great to try to understand those we disagree with. I don’t even think my opinions are the majority opinion here. That is also fine. I do get irritated when I feel like facts are misrepresented in discussion so I try to correct those I am certain are incorrect or suggest that my understanding is different for those I am unsure about. Anyway enough with the disclaimers, let’s get on with the post!
On Friday the prosecution rested. I am probably a lawyer’s dream in that I usually go into a trial presuming innocence and wait for the prosecution to convince me otherwise. After the prosecution rests, I generally think the defendant is guilty, or at the very least there is the possibility of guilt. Most of the time, as in Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony, I see no way for the defense to overcome the mountain of evidence presented. For the first time, in this case I feel that not only did the prosecution not prove their case, but that this case should never have gone to trial.
Have you ever watched those legal shows where the cops know that someone is guilty of something but they can’t bring them in because they don’t have enough evidence to stand up in court? Sometimes they go to the DA with what they have and the DA says it’s going to take more than that to get a conviction? Then in TVland they finally get the proof they need, the case goes forward and the bad guy goes to jail. In the real world, most of the time that last-minute damning evidence doesn’t materialize. Not everyone who commits a crime get arrested. In this country we need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone. In this case, in my opinion, the state doesn’t have proof that George Zimmerman committed a crime. Let’s look at the state’s case.
The state knows that Zimmerman’s defense is self-defense. The state is attempting to prove second degree murder. To prove second degree murder, a prosecutor must show that the defendant acted according to a “depraved mind” without regard for human life. Florida state laws permit the prosecution of second degree murder when the killing lacked premeditation or planning, but the defendant acted with enmity toward the victim or the two had an ongoing interaction or relationship. Unlike first degree murder, second degree murder does not necessarily require proof of the defendant’s intent to kill. – See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-second-degree-murder-laws.html#sthash.Nd3OFP1M.dpuf.
These are the jury instructions that the jury must follow to find second degree murder. It has three parts and they must find all three true to convict. Let’s see if the prosecution met their burden.
•A “person of ordinary judgment” would know the act, or series of acts, “is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another”;
I think we can all agree on this one. Even with no evidence presented at all, it seems obvious to me, that to someone of ordinary judgment that the act of shooting someone with a 9mm at intermediate range would cause death or at least serious bodily injury to another. Despite the state clouding this point by putting up a witness that said that George was unaware Trayvon had died while she was conducting her interview, he certainly must have known that Trayvon was shot and thus at the very least suffered serious bodily injury. I can concede that the state has proven this part of the charge.
•The act is “done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent”; and
The first problem I see with this charge is that ill-will, hatred, spite or an evil intent in general require a prior acquaintance between the two parties. However, I am open to the prosecution convincing me that perhaps George was spiteful or held ill-will against the parties responsible for the recent break-ins and this fairly or unfairly carried over to Trayvon. Let’s see if the state can do that….
It is here that the state has problems. The states own witness, the police woman who was first to interview George testified that George did not know Trayvon was dead until their interview. Also, she stated that George looked upset at the news. She further stated that he talked about taking the life of another being against his religion. He asked about her cross and if she was Catholic (she was not, she is Christian). The officer reassured George that if he was telling the truth that God did not mean that you can’t defend yourself when your life is in danger. To me, her testimony proves there was no ill-will, hatred, spite or evil intent. And this was a witness that the prosecution put on the stand.
The female officer did preface that with “if George was telling the truth.” She went on to say she had no reason to disbelieve him. Then the lead detective took the stand and said that in his opinion, George was truthful. Again, this is a witness that the prosecution put on the stand. To me, both of these witnesses negated the presence of ill-will, hatred, spite or evil intent.
The prosecution showed the jury several video and audio interviews with very few differences in his story. The differences I recall were things like “Trayvon came out of nowhere” versus “Trayvon came out of the bushes.” Also, George claims he held Travyon down on his belly with his arms out stretched waiting for the police and asked a neighbor for help restraining him, but the police found him with his hands under his body. This is a major point in the prosecution’s case. Based on facts and evidence presented in court, Travyon was found on his belly with his hands under the body. The prosecution concludes this to mean that George was lying when he said a neighbor approached and he asked for help to restrain Trayvon. In every retelling George claims he got on Trayvon’s back and stretched his hands out in restraint. But all police evidence and a photo taken by a neighbor show Trayvon’s hands under his body. This is the prosecution’s biggest win. Their hope is that the jury will discount his entire telling of events based on this conflicting information. Perhaps the jury will do just that. I myself given the two previous officers testifying that they believe George was truthful would not discount his retelling based on this in discrepancy. That is before the defense even addresses this issue, which they will. And even if you believe George blatantly lied about this particular circumstance, I don’t see that as enough to convict someone of second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t think the position of the hands have anything to do with ill-will, spite, evil intent or hatred.
What did the prosecution put up to show that George acted with ill-will, hatred or spite or evil intent? You may feel that George is a racist, or an over zealous vigilante or a bully, or just a horrible person. But what did the state do to meet their burden of proof? Where are the people to call him racist? Where are the witnesses that said he was a bad ass always looking for a fight? Why didn’t they ask his teachers on the stand about his attitude in class? Where was anyone to cast aspersions on George and show that George acted with a depraved mind? There weren’t any. So from this alone, George in my opinion should be acquitted. If you disagree please show me courtroom evidence of his depraved mind. For those of you trying to think of how to shore up your position, I suggest the prosecutions opening statement. “Fucking punks. These assholes always get away.” That sentence from George’s mouth is what the prosecution is hanging their hat on for “ill-will hatred, spite, or evil intent.” Is that enough for you to find someone of a depraved mind and guilty of second degree murder? It’s not for me. It might be for the jury. We will have to see.
In O’Mara’s motion to dismiss, he focused specifically on this prong of the charge . O’Mara offered the following caselaw to support a dismissal due to lack of evidence to support ill-will, hatred, spite of evil intent. Florida courts have held that an impulsive overreaction to an attack or injury is itself insufficient to prove ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent. See, e.g., Light v. State, 841 So. 2d 623, 626 (Fla. 2d DCA 2003); McDaniel v. State, 620 So. 2d 1308 (Fla. 4th DCA 1993). Although exceptions exist, the crime of second-degree murder is normally committed by a person who knows the victim and has had time to develop a level of enmity toward the victim. Light, 841 So. 2d at 626. McDaniel v. State, 620 So. 2d 1308 (Fla. 4th DCA 1993); Williams v. State, 674 So. 2d 177, 178 (Fla. 2d DCA 1996).
It is my position that if this case were not being tried in the media with such tremendous racial overtones that 9 judges out of 10 would have granted this motion to dismiss.
•The act is “of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.”
Well, he killed someone. Isn’t that an obvious indication of indifference to human life? Actually, no, it is not. If it were it would not be necessary to include it on the jury instructions. In fact, the prosecution really needs to prove the ill-will, hatred, spite and evil intent prong before they can prove this one. Self-defense is a pure defense to this prong. Protecting your own life when in imminent danger is not an indifference to human life. Indifference to human life can be interpreted as just killing someone for the hell of it. The prosecution would have to prove that George was out hunting for suspicious people to shoot, rather than simply seeing something unexpected and suspicious on his way to Target. It is my belief they cannot do that without proving the second prong, and I don’t believe they have.
I hope you will forgive the length of this post. I am trying to give specific legal examples of why I believe George Zimmerman should and will be acquitted. I was going to also mention the automatic (in Florida) lesser included of manslaughter but I am sure your eyes are already bleeding if you read all this so I will save it for another time.
I’d love to hear your comments in the prosecution’s case in chief here. Also this will be the post for the defense’s case in chief that begins tomorrow. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
I hope this is okay to put this here. Correction for Sasha…
The first judge, Jessica Reckseider recused herself because her husband worked with a lawyer that GZ had approached about representing him, stating a conflict of interest.
Lester, was the second judge on the case and GZ lawyers feared he would not get a fair trial because of comments Lester made so he recused himself or was forced to recuse himself.
On the same day, the chief of police, Lee, resigned and later was fired. And the governor appointed Corey to replace state attorney Wolfinger.
Corey’s problem came about because she did not take the evidence the police had gathered on GZ to a grand jury. She skipped that step all together and brought 2nd degree charges against GZ.
Rose,
I saw and read about the changing of the judges and the subsequent firing of the police chief. I also remember the Florida Governor replacing the state prosecutor with Corey. I don’t believe she skipped any steps. From what I read, the police dept. and the former state attorney didn’t do what they were suppose to do. This is a case where I think an old saying is quite appropriate. “The Baby should be thrown out with the bathwater.” IMO, the former chief’s, and state attorney’s actions did not satisfy the governor, so they were forced out. Why then would he or the new state attorney use any of the info they gathered. It obviously was tainted and or incomplete. In addition, they didn’t contact all the witnesses, even after they made countless calls to the police station. They didn’t contact Rachael who was the last number on Trayvon’s cell phone. And they didn’t even listen to their own investigator who, recommended the arrest of GZ.
The governor clearly wanted Corey to start with a clean slate. Based on the information she gathered, the appropriate charges were brought against Capt. George Zimmerman.
The investigation was suppose to be on going when Corey was appointed. The thing that was ongoing was political pressure put on the governor. Obama and Holder commented on the case. Jackson and Sharpton became involved and organized rallies across the country wanting GZ arrested. That’s a lot of political pressure and obviously, Wolfinger stood firm on his belief there was not enough evidence to arrest GZ so the governor appointed Corey in his place, and basically used her to get the pressure off himself. She DID skip taking the evidence to the grand jury and when asked what new evidence she had against GZ, she said all would be revealed in court. I am assuming the powers that be feared a grand jury would agree there was not enough evidence to indict GZ.
BTW, Rachel Jeantel was questioned several times, even once by the FBI.
sources…CNN and ABC
This is my opinion… if Corey did away with tainted evidence and started fresh and all she came up with was what the prosecution has shown the last two weeks, then GZ should not have been arrested on second degree murder charges. The prosecution could only work with the evidence they had so I don’t think they should be blamed.
Sasha
Not that matters…but I think the old saying you quoted is “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”. That’s very different from what you said. “Throw the baby out with the bath water”. I don’t personally know what your trying to say by even using that phrase.
Sorry Shasa
I think I’m wrong here about the quote. But I still don’t get where it ties in to what your comment is about. I had homemade ice cream last night. Must have caused brain freeze. I’ll stop commenting now. 🙂 Have a good day!
Hello Bev. I said precisely what I meant. DO throw the baby out with the bath water. If the police chief and state attorney are deemed as bad, then the so-called evidence they collected is also deemed as bad. Remember, these are MY thoughts. Your may be different, and that’s o.k.
TT you are right. The state rested its case and no matter how each of us feel what happened that night or how loud we say it the facts before the jury are what matters in court. Now we will get to see what points the def attys felt were the ones they feel the jury needs. I will accept the verdict no matter what it is and move on to the next puzzle/trial. Its sad that TM had to die but no one has ever mentioned how it must feel to KNOW you took someones life. Either by accident or defense or intent, that has to play on the mind
Thanks, TT. I had no idea about those 3 facts but I do remember O’Mara kept saying the state had not shown that GZ acted with ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent. And I don’t believe he had any of those feelings toward TM. Early this morning I listened to the testimony of the 911 non-emergency operator and he said he heard no anger or hatred or ill will in GZ’s voice when he took the call.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that testimony. Again a prosecution case making points for the defense. It’s insane how flimsy this case is. Flimsy is an overstatement, the judge should have granted the motion to dismiss.
On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Tamara Tattles
I was hoping she would, but in a way, I am glad she didn’t. I can’t wait to see what the defense does next week, no longer hobbled by the prosecution If it’s anything like what we’ve seen so far with GZ’s mother and his uncle Jorge, it will be worth watching the prosecution’s case go down in flames.
As much as I hate to admit, the prosecutors did now present their case very well. It’s not because they didn’t have the evidence, it’s due to their lack of skills.
I believe the jurors a intelligent enough to listen to, read, review the evidence and extract what they need to find GZ guilty.
Rose, are you referring to the call where GZ says, “These assholes always get away”?
And TM called GZ creepy-ass cracker… and probably a few other choice names.
Sandra, please read Rose’s comment, then respond. This is not a tit for tat conversation.
Please do not gang up on Sasha for having a different opinion! BEHAVE EVERYONE!
I agree. She’s as entitled to her opinion as the foreman on the Jodi Arias jury. 🙂
Sasha, rest assured that I did, and my response still stands, with or without your permission.
Calm down Sandra. Your response is your response.
I am calm. Talk to the hand.
Sasha, the 911 operator testified they hear things like that said all the time when taking phone calls such as the one GZ made. It was not an unusual thing to hear, which he would know, right? Because of the circumstance, everything GZ or TM said that night could be taken totally out of context.
Purv. Do we really want to go there. So, I take your comment to mean I’m on the wrong side of the fence? Or do you have the courage to come out and really say what you mean. It’s o.k. I can handle it. What I don’t like is sneakiness.
Hey Sasha, how about trying to dull that blade a little bit? Leave subtle innuendo and accusations out of this………….got a ??? ask…………got a comment? say it
Rose, you are correct. What they said could be taken out of context.
And to quote you, Sasha…”please read Rose’s comment, then respond. This is not a tit for tat conversation.” I was replying to Rose, not you. Your insecurity is showing, Jan.
Purv, enough with the personal attacks. Name calling isn’t necessary.
Hey Doc. My blade is always dull until someone gives me reason to sharpen it. Please be fair. Read the comments I’m responding to before you give me direction.
I agree that referring to someone (even using the plural “they”) as an asshole is not equivalent to a finding of “ill will, hatred, spite or evil intent,” particularly in light of the unresolved break-in that occurred two weeks prior. But there are some who would have the thought police arrest you for even thinking it. 🙂
Placing those little happy faces after saying something sarcastic is quite irritating. WTF are you trying to say, and to whom are you saying it?
i wanna learn how to make faces on wordpress!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂 🙁 >::< is all i can do (that last one is a cat, i think)
methinks the nanny-blog police and editing my stuff!! GGGGGG
Doc, nobody is editing you, or ‘rica. But you two are like tag team wrestlers fighting one opponent.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Tamara Tattles
self defense…………….only when attacked…………persistently pick on my buds with whom if often disagree, and i will speak up………….but i don’t think i was nasty, just trying to redirect and ask for shares, not blades
Actually, TT, my editing comment was in reference that a “real” smiley popped up when all i typed was colon/hyphen/parenthesis (is that how you make smiley’s???? ) i was joking about maybe you were trying to help me out in editing my keyboard characters into smileys. (make sense?)
yeah wp makes the smiley for ya. 🙂 see ?
oh shit, defense calls trayvon’s dad….quit distracting me! lol
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Tamara Tattles
TT, we’re not fighting or wrestling anyone. Doc and I are trying to bring levity to the situation. But I await the condemnation for bringing levity to any topic as serious as this. God knows levity was the victim in the last round of back-and-forths. I think we are trying to say — and probably not succeeding — chill out a little. As Eleanor would say, “no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” No one is making fun of anyone. If you’re assuming that, then you are allowing yourself to feel inferior.
Doc. This isn’t gang warfare. You don’t have to protect your buds. And by the way, protect them from what.
Then ignore my comments if it irritates you so much. It’s a general expression — if you can’t say assholes, without people getting upset, then there’s some thought or word policing going on. Asshole.
insert picture of buttocks!!!!!!! LOL
Hey Doc, or as my husband would say, “pendejo”! 🙂 (Another smiley face to irritate those who hate those of us who smile a lot)
SO MUCH FOR THE EARLY AM PRAISE FROM PAM, HUH??? Sorry TT……….but we just levitating..(is that what she meant?)…LOL…i mean cutting up a little
(insert mildly insulting levitation pic here)
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Tamara Tattles
Puravidacostarica you are poking the bear. Sasha is being too nice to you. Dance with me, I’m ready.
I’m ignoring the two of you. I’d suggest you do the same. You’re reading things into statements that are simply not there. As Sasha would say, “calm down.” 🙂
Purv. I feel sad for you if your husband calls you pendejo. Or were you calling Doc that. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
OMG she DOES have a sense of humor! 🙂
I agree with you also. I’m sure they felt a lot of pressure to put this case on trial because of the media uproar. But this is a perfect example of why we put things through our court system and don’t just lynch people in the street. On the other hand, I still think GZ behaved carelessly and shouldn’t have been in that position, with a gun, because I don’t think TM deserved to have his life taken. So… it’s a horrendous situation that is going to destroy both families in the end.
I’m also glad we get to see these trials. Having it reported in the news vs. seeing it with our own eyes really helps with understanding what happens (even when we don’t agree with the result).
I would hate to be on the jury in this case. Thanks for laying out the elements of what the prosecution is supposed to prove. At first I thought GZ might be on the hook for 2nd degree b/c he was overzealous and reckless. But, since TT pointed out, “Florida courts have held that an impulsive overreaction to an attack or injury is itself insufficient to prove ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent,” then I think it’s case closed for 2nd degree murder. I hope you post manslaughter elements…be interested to know if prosecution met those. Thx TT! Written like a (good) lawyer!
I really fear for this jury. I hope that the decision isn’t made hoping to protect themselves. No matter what the decision, somebody out there will be angry.
I agree. I don’t see the proof that GZ acted with the spite and evil intent that is required to convict for second degree, so cannot imagine that anything other than political pressure fuels this second degree prosecution. However, those who think GZ must be guilty for killing a boy with only a bag of skittles and tea will think anything other than guilty is some sort of racial “fix”. The media coverage this weekend was dominated by headlines that only highlighted TM’s mom’s testimony. A “not guilty” will seem incompatible with the “facts” as they have been presented on the news feeds.
What a shame – the natural course of things would have been some sort of plea with time for GZ for negligent homicide or similar charge.
Now those of us following in detail will feel angry about a second degree verdict, and others will feel equally furious with a not guilty.
Why not worry about the riots us crazy white crackers might have after the verdict?
(We do all have our point of view – African American’s feel unfairly targeted by the crazy crackers, and some of us florida residents feel pissed off by the crime and real issues here – my 17 year old son was car jacked and stabbed by a black teen in a hoodie…so we all have our experiences that color our point of view, independent of the facts of this specific case.)
And I’ll betcha, if your son had defended himself and the attacker had died in the process of self defense, Al Sharpton and his acolytes would be calling your son the murderer.
To me, this is the crux of the case. To what point should TM keep smashing GZ’s head into the concrete before GZ is allowed to defend himself? Is there a scale for these things?
0 – 4, you are only allowed to wiggle.
5 – 8, you are allowed to kick or hit back.
9 or 10, use deadly force, but only if absolutely necessary and only if your skull has been fractured, choking on blood and losing consciousness.
well-said florida…..reading my mind (sorry for THAT insult)
Oh and Doc. You are not the boss of me.
That is so funny cuz i actually have a T-shirt that says that…………….plan to wear it tonight (gotta remind the man of that sometimes)
hey Sasha, don’t wanna be and prefer an intellectual playing field if you want to dally……so, speak facts, not bias, ((insert BIG-ASS smiley face right here))
Well alright then doc. So, I’m less than intelligent? Just call a spade a spade.
Sasha, i am sorry that i said that in such a way as to make you feel like that. I just got back from a great evening with my guy and saw this. What i am trying to say is that your thoughts and views and ejxperiences and insights are important to us. It is just a big turn off when, per my personal perspective, you only contribute some sort of bubbling anger or attack or subtle accusation against me/others. I wish i could help you to feel so comfortable that you would be OK with just share, dull blade. You are a valuable person, i am no boss of you or anyone, (particularly not my teen or 10 pets)….but i think you have a big heart………..can’t you show your heart?
xo doc
Dayum, sasha. We should feed her jalepeno margaritas more often, no? _
OK TT, im gonna make it worse for you………beach, only 75 degrees and breezy…….jalapeno pineapple margaritas (always rocks with salt) fired pickles, crabshack for the best peanuts, flounder, oysters, shrimp, beach walk with sideview fireworks, Apollo 13 movie screen on beach with watermelon margaritas and the best…..well, nevermind that part. Made 50 friends, took pics of a group from up North who i required to say grits and geechee for photo……….great time and nature. but i really mean to Sasha that it would be great if she were comfortable to share. she has her life, her experiences and i suspect could be a great teacher of us all……..were she to be comfortable.
(private note to Sandra………..i actually swan the Atlantic from Myrtle Beach to Hilton Head and didn’t even sweat…………or maybe i did, gee, i guess i was a little wet on the road…sorry you m issed it but i just know you ain’t snorkle nor wetsuit or flippers)
You realize Banjo and I are moving in, right? I mean you only have yourself to blame for this.
Teared up a bit reading that…and it is not the Valentina’s I just sprinkled all over my dinner. Brava docwall. We all got hearts beating inside of us. Even “Purv” here. 🙂
Jesus. are all of you drunk but me? Im on a stupid diet.
Doc, and others who feel I’m angry. It’s not anger, its disgust. Clearly I’m not in agreement with the majority, and I don’t take kindly to personal attacks. I’m not one to follow the pack. And, I don’t hesitate to tell you how I feel when you launch attacks against my lack of comedic abilities, and what you perceive as a lack of intellectual abilities. If some comes at me, I’m striking back.
Try reading the comments I’m responding too, and you’ll get a better picture. I don’t go after anyone who doesn’t initiate it.
I only have one response, Doc and it is to quote Ace Ventura:
“Alrighty then”. 🙂
It’s amazing how smitsa managed to get you guys going with the happy faces. I wonder if it was reverse psychology.
TT: Saw a sign today that made me laugh. “I am on a 30 day diet, I’ve already lost 10 days”. 🙂
Unfortunately the Prosecution is stuck with the witnesses they put forward. From the detectives to the ME – I’m not sure if they were protecting their own asses or were completely ill prepared by the Prosecution before they testified. In either case, they were a disaster. Aren’t the Prosecutors from Jacksonville, not Sandford? The detectives, etc. were from Sandford. Their toes were being stepped on by the Jacksonville crew.
I think GZ was overcharged. It should have been manslaughter, imo. Racial profiling is definitely a factor . GZ needs to be punished. I believe TM was acting in self defence when he punched GZ in the face. He was being followed by a stranger. GZ exagerrated his story – saying his head was slammed into the pavement 20 times is ridiculous. His injuries were all but gone the next day – except for the huge bandage. There’s no doubt there was an altercation. But – the screaming stopped immediately after the gunshot.
The defense lawyers are very thorough and competent. My only hope is that the Prosecutors are as adept at cross examination as the Defense was.
The jury has a tough job ahead of them. If the lesser included Manslaughter is not an option, there will be an acquittal. That would be a travesty of justice, imho – just like OJ and Casey Anthony……
IMO they over charged because the prosecution had hoped the defense would want to make a plea deal for manslaughter.
This goes on way too much in this country — over charging more like over kill. Should not be allowed. A prosecutor should not be permitted to charge someone with a higher charge in hopes defense makes a plea. What if the defense can’t afford “science” or as it it still happens, you get lunatics who want to be a hero and say they saw the person at the crime s scene. It is a shame that it happens in this day and age that a cop can legally get away with pressuring witnesses. That is another subject in its self.
I am just glad to not be on this jury.
ummmmmmm, somewhere in here comes self-defense and i think that prosecution case supports this (after good cross-exam, sometimes before.) I am watching witness testimony again and think i may have fallen in love with O’Mara………..nothing beats the quiet, calm wit of a brilliant man. He has a fabulous was of keeping a witness calm and, yes, happy and agreeable, even whilst impeaching them. They say never ask a question unless you know the answer to it, but this guy has created algorhythms on how to proceed with questioning, based upon response. (sorry, i digress) But i still have a huge place in my heart for Juan……like that direct,down and dirty, too
Babs, what part of following someone justifies a punch in the face? If Zimmerman wasn’t touching Martin, why did Martin have the right to punch him? I seriously want to know. If Martin had the right to be walking where he was, so did Zimmerman. Did you pay any attention to the testimony of the medical person who actually treated Zimmerman? And the fact that the screaming stopped immediately after the gunshot – what’s your point? Are you trying to imply that it was surely Martin screaming? I can as easily theorize that it was Zimmerman screaming – and that he stopped because Martin was no longer pounding on him.
Martin was being persued by a strange armed man through empty streets at night. If someone was chasing me in similar circumstances I would assume that I was in danger and act accordingly. Zimmerman was the one with an agenda that night. Martin was just trying to get home safely.
Seen no evidence tha TM knew the Cracker was armed…….nor evidence that GZ self-inflicted his own wounds or that the fact that TM was on top of GZ doing something with his hands was untrue. Not as simple as a kid just trying to get home.
and while i am at it……….there it is again: “chase, chase, chase” not supported. Also these were not empty streets but a neighborhood. Agenda??? Seems to be true on that………the agenda was to try to keep his crime-ridden neighborhood safe from crime………..NOTHING TO SUPPORT A QUEST TO KILL
So I for some reason thought I could sleep in this morning…turned on Kathy lee and Michael, fell asleep. Woke up for hot topics on WW feel asleep Woke up for hot topics on The View. Sat up and thought OMG! I DON’T WATCH THESE SHOWS ANYMORE THE TRIAL IS ON!
I blame being up all night with Big Brother.
Has it been all voice recognition folks?
Friends, co-workers mostly for voice-recognition but also a few character witnessing put into this by these friends. LONGEVITY of friendships and , on cross, trying to get them to say GZ sounds angry…………..no coroboration. I think all good wits (the Osterman couples, and another couple Donnelly and wife, who know him and the Donnelly’s worked campaign with GZ so have experience with a screaming/yelling GZ, albeit in a peppy way)
Thanks Doc!
Elsie, if a person is trying to get home safely, they go home. Turning around and confronting someone who is following you when your home is just a few steps farther is not the sensible thing to do. Granted, it’s something a teen might do, but it’s not the typical actions of a person who has a safe haven nearby.
And, if GZ was not carrying a weapon, I doubt if he would have followed TM.
Elsie, I don’t think TM had an idea GZ had a gun. And I think we all agree if someone was chasing us our first instinct is to run to a place of safety. That seemed to be TM’s first thought as Rachel Jeantel, whom he was talking to on the phone, said TM told her he was near his dad’s fiancée’s house BUT then he decided to run behind the house in the dog walk area and the rest is history. My common sense tells me if he knew GZ had a gun he would have just gone into the house and locked his door.
I think it is so odd that there is not one witness to how the fight began or to the actual shooting. The witness said he saw pounding, but only heard the shot, but did not witness the shooting. It sounded like an old fashioned fist fight at first. GZ and TM were the only eye witnesses and GZ version will be the only version told. I don’t think GZ will tell his story under oath. I think GZ will either be aquitted or hung jury. The rest is just theory. Why would GZ be scared when he knew he had a gun for protection.
Katrina, responsible firearm ownership means you only use it if you REALLY think you have to. Not walking around ready to shoot on site. And, remember, GZ always carried his conceal/carry except for work. It is better to run/seek help/let someone pepper spray you, even hit you……………..firearm as last resort. From watching trial, i gather that witnesses were afraid to just go out there…………….and in some cases, also, “minding their own business”. But there were enough credible witnesses to see TM on top of GZ, hear screams for help, and later, to see the head/facial injuries to GZ to coroborate his story. Make sense or no?
I agree. GZ did not have an alternative, but a gun. I was just think about what we teach children about stranger danger and how they should react. In this day and time, most people do not get involved because you never know what you might encounter. You try and help and get killed in the process.
I think the defense did a great job in getting in character witnesses for George today without ever asking them about his character. Brilliant lawyering. I for one am in love with the old man Vietnam vet beaming with pride over teaching him how to tie a tie and crying at the sound of him calling for help. Bravo, Mark O’Mara.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Tamara Tattles
Katrina, I truly believe GZ would not have involved himself if he wasn’t armed.
I believe some gun carriers have an elevated sense of courage which they ordinarily would not have.
On the likert scale I would agree with this somewhat…he was confident he could defend himself in any circumstance.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Tamara Tattles
Babs, GZ didn’t say his head had been slammed on the concrete 20 times. He said he’d been hit 20 times or more. I’m pretty sure if his head had been slammed 20 times on the sidewalk he would have been rendered unconscious or might have died.
After one day how do you think the prosecution is doing in cross examination?
Regarding the hands positioning testimony, i do not have any problem with understanding that TM could have moved his hands to his aching chest once GZ ceased in restraining him on the grass post GSW. I have seen alot of death, dying, trauma……………..the hands issue does not medically surprise me. I would also add, why would GZ lie about that? What gain?
I going to join Sasha’s team to answer this since y’all are feeling all dogpiley tonight. He might have lied had he previously planned for what to do in the event he shot someone. Perhaps when he bought the gun, he went through a thorough plan for what to do in the event that he had to shoot someone in the process of watching the neighborhood. His answers were textbook self defense, he sticks to his story very well. Perhaps part of the plan was to say that he tried to restrain the suspect rather than continuing to use deadly force and was restraining him while waiting for “backup.”
I can see him embellishing (lying) on his version when the only other witness is dead.
That said, arms our or arms underneath? Does it really matter? I think the only reason it might is if you wanted to say that lie impeached his entire version of events.
i agree that is a possibility, but the prosecution failed to show what a creepy ass cracker he was in life……….no witnesses/acquaintances, etc to say he was this humongous bigot with killing or hurting on his mind. NONE, save the words from his mouth to 911………..he sure screwed himself on that super secret plan when he talked about ‘those people”, didn’t he????? Discrepancy on theory, anyone?
I believe the judge ruled that the character of George and Trayvon were both off limits unless the the opposing counsel somehow opened the door.
I keep waiting for anyone connected to that night, the investigation, or any other witness to show GZ was evil BEFORE that night. Wouldn’t that be easy to highlight from GZ’s everyday life and come to light in any investigation? There is even some volunteer work done by GZ during the years before this tragic death to show that he was not prejudiced.
Peach, GZ (an adult) was no angel, nor was Trayvon. I consider GZ’s record to be worse than Trayvon’s.
Remember, GZ was arrested and charged in 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer. The charges were dropped. In 2006 Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence, charges were also dropped. Other charges involved speeding. Don’t forget, his papa has connections to the justice system.
In 2009 GZ purchased the gun used in the killing of Trayvon.
In 2012 a retired police officer was interviewed by CNN regarding GZ’s role neighborhood watch captain for his community. The officer stated, and I’ve read in NW bylaws, that GZ put himself in a work capacity when he called 911 to report his suspicions about Trayvon. According to the law, and NW bylaws, GZ wasn’t suppose to carry a gun in that capacity, therefore should have put his gun his car, home or elsewhere.
2005 resisting arrest charges were dropped. GZ was in an altercation in a bar (came to the defense of someone else) with an undercover officer who did not identify himself as an u/c officer. Assaulted GZ first.
Both GZ and his then fiancee filed restraining orders AGAINST EACH OTHER.
GZ’s father is a retired magistrate judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia. Has absolutely no jurisdiction in Florida.
Statement from Sanford Police Dept regarding Twin Tree Lakes Neighborhood Watch:
“Zimmerman is licensed to carry a firearm.(37) Sanford police chief Bill Lee said that while neighborhood watch volunteers are not encouraged to carry a gun, they have a Constitutional right to do so,(37) stating, “Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred.”(46) “
Nice bit of research Sandra, thanks for info!!
Aw, shucks…
Dog pile – heh.
I’m WATCHING YOU
(insert cute picture from rainmain or whatever it is here because WP sucks and won’t let me use pictures in comments)
I *know* you are. 🙂 Oh, and if it helps cut me some slack, one of my houses is on a beach. LOL
I know where all of your houses are and which one you are in now. And if you don’t behave I may fly out there and spank your ass. 😛
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Tamara Tattles
And stay away from Doc, she is cruisin for a bruising too!
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Tamara Tattles
I am so impressed with the comments made here. People are expressing their opinions – which vary but in a civilized manner. You should be a moderator instead of the people on HLN. Their only desire is to whip the people into a mob. Thanks for the good work you are doing on the court cases. Your platform is superior to anything else I have seen.
Thanks so much, Pam. I appreciate the comment.
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Tamara Tattles
Yep yep Pam, we all are scared shitless of OOPS(!), I MEAN LOVE TT!!
TT, any idea who the defense will call today? Can prosecution witnesses be called to testify for the defense? I heard someone on TV predict the defense will rest by Friday’s end. Any thoughts on that?
Rose, here’s my head on that one:
1) witnesses to how the neighborhood watch was beneficial to the hood…..GZ helped to ID some perps from his watch activities;
2) winesses who have never seen GZ as a bigot who targeted people or had racial bias;
3) Dr. Dimaio who will testify as to TM’s ability to get up and over and to grass post GSW….also re: trajectory, point of entry and how consistent these are with GZ’s story.
4) Police records about crime in hood and , maybe, the typical perps who were actually caught.
5) Testimony as to GZ’s lack of physical coordination/strength……somewhere along lines of him being “soft”;
Hopefully a couple of funny as hell but credible folks to break up any monotony…
I saw a list of 130+ with alot of law enforcement names, and some witnesses only by a # indication.
TT George is getting convicted
.
Right now, prosecution gasping at straws, attempting to get numerous GZ voice id witnesses to agree he was continuously yelling for help (refute GZ stating that TM was covering his nose and mouth intermittently, i guess?)
Also, with every time 911 tape plays, the prosecution gets to replay GZ saying those bad words on 911 tape.
Doc, Kitty, It”s like beating a dead horse, give it up already! Maybe jury starting to get resentful, I know I am.
Sandra, JVM said today that she felt as though the prosecution was playing that 911 tape so much that she felt it would lose it’s desired effect, pretty much like what happened with all the sex talk in JA case. And he just kept repeating it himself, over and over in an angry tone of voice. In my opinion, what the prosecutor failed to realize was the voice of GZ was then compared to his angry tone and GZ’s tone then came across even more quietly.
Oh, I know! Prosecution sounding frantic but in the end just shooting themselves in the foot. O’Mara did well to point that out without being obnoxious about it Prosecution seemed to yelling at the witnesses today
Yep, it’s like the whole T&A views during the JA trial. Enough already. I’m really angry that the prosecution is yelling at Ms. Benjamin – dude – ugly does not suit you!
On a side-note……….very circuitous thinking….i am searching for where to take my guy for a nice beach supper tonight (Folly TT, if you leave now, you could be here in time)…..i noted one restaurant called Black Magic……..made me suddenly think about restaurant names and the future of our first amendment rights………….example, do you think that Cracker Barrel will have to change name? What about Geechee Girl Grits???
Not only restaurants, but……..Cracker Jacks, Spic and Span, Oreo Cookies, Wonder Bread and Aunt Jemima Syrup…. just to name a few!
Welcome to the Nanny State-maybe government should also take over all these markets??
And before it’s all said and done – we won’t have black and white crayons anymore!
Yet all crayons will have to be called “rainbow”
Well we used to have flesh. But it was white people flesh. I forget what it is called now. When I was a teacher, I had these cool Crayolas that were called something like multicultural pack. They had all these skin tones of the world and the kids could choose. Because I am cool like that. 🙂
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Tamara Tattles
Switching to HLN and the graphic says, “Can the state prove ill will, hatred and spite?” Sounds very familiar, no? Only they are a couple days behind me….
Doc, rainbow! Gay crayons? They’ve already co-opted the colour purple, now they get the whole box? (insert aforementioned levity here).
Or just numbered, 1, 2, 3, – but then some tighta$$ in politics will decide that they too are politically incorrect – numbers can hurt, don’t ya know!
These are actually awesome. The colors are not as…pinky, orangey as they appear. But there is a Snooki-ish one. 🙂
http://www.quill.com/crayola-crayons/cbs/246905.html?cm_mmc=SEM_PLA_OS_246905
Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world.
Reckon we can’t sing that anymore. What about brown people, Jesus????
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Tamara Tattles
The neon colors were always my fav, they would always brighten up my day! Thanks for the little reminder of that song – haven’t heard it in years – are we doomed to PC ourselves out of the art of conversation with words we can’t use?
HOLY SMOKES BATMAN!!! multicultural crayons……….
Thank you for Smoking! 🙂
When i was a kid, I often wondered where the black and white people were. I saw brown people and pink people. My teacher taught us to use brown and pink or flesh colored crayons when coloring people. We were not allowed to use black or white. It was confusing for obvious reasons.
My kids are biracial (i’m white husband is black). When was oldest was very young like 3ish she was learning her colors and very confused on where she fit in. “Mommy’s white, daddies black what color does that make me?” I told her she was so special she was the color of brown sugar. LOL
Now, TT, Jesus didn’t make up the song! He loves all the children of the world! Adults, too.
Detective Serino seemed notably more ambivalent in his testimony today. I just found out he was demoted from detective to street patrolman. And, placed on the graveyard shift. I’m sure it’s because as the second detective on the shooting scene, he was the first to say George should have been arrested and charged on the night of the killing. And, he didn’t believe George’s story.
Smitsa, I think Serino was the same way when he testified for the prosecution. I think he just answered the questions truthfully and some answers favorited the prosecution and some favored the defense. I don’t think he believed GZ’s story in it’s entirety but had could not find enough evidence in his story of events to shoot it down…no pun intended. I think that is evident now since we’ve heard the prosecution’s entire case.
I also read that Serino asked to be reassigned to the patrol division. Who knows if that’s true. Maybe he was simply sick and tired of the politics of his job. The chief of police, Lee and the state attorney, Wolfinger were all taken off the case so perhaps he was linked in with them..
Rose, Serina was demoted, prior to January 2013, therefore he would seem that way during his testimonies for both sides. Demotions, transfers, and ostracizing a perceived trader are (unwritten) SOPs. It would have been too obvious to fire him at this point.
Defense and MOM have now called tracy Martin to the stand. Color me surprised.
I’m surprised that the judge overrules all objections by the defense but not the prosecution. Hearing Mr. Martin’s testimony is heartbreaking about hearing TM’s screams, but has someone purjured themselves? The police all stated he said no, he states he didn’t.
My heart to him and his family! I don’t think anything perjury here………….unless something about enhanced audio was in depo……..not under oath with Serino
methinks that the defense is trying to pre-empt anythng rebuttal……….this way, it is all in open. As well, your witness, you get to open doors to where ???’s go on cross.
Kitty, All requests by defense to approach the bench are met with a resounding “NO!”
All prosecution requests have been granted. In fact, they are tripping over each other in their rush to get there first! Judge’s bias is obvious. Does anybody else see that?
I didn’t notice it so much with the objections. But now that you mention it I do recall my requests to approach by the defense that were denied. Even the unflappable O’Mara seems irritated. I’ve noticed he just starts a speaking objection now and she calls him up to finish. lol He’s a smart cookie.
Mr. Martin nor Det. Serina saw Officer Singleton in or near the office during the playing of the “screaming” tape. Where did she come from and why was she there. She stated she was sitting in the walkway, near the back of the cubicles. It sounds suspect to me. Officer Singleton seemed extremely stress on the stand. GZ did the killing and he looks cool and calm everyday.
It’s very hard to believe no one listed the names of everyone present during the meeting with Mr. Martin. IMO there seems to be a lot of inappropriate goings-on in the Sandford PD relative this trial. Every meeting should have been chronicled and kept somewhere for later reference, trial etc.
Why would she lie about over hearing Mr. Martin’s denying it was TM’s voice on the tape? What did she have to gain? Did it make you wonder why the prosecution had not called Mr. Martin to the stand during their case? I wondered that but today I believe it was because the prosecutor did not want the jury to hear Mr. Martin deny recognizing or knowing it was TM’s voice on that tape .
When Mr. Martin said that TM was his best friend in the world it made me wonder how those words might make his older son feel. Hopefully, that was just grief talking.
Rose, unfortunately, cops lie in many situations. Det. Serina was a lone wolf in this situation. Remember, he wanted to arrest Georgie, but his Chief said no. IMO the benefit would be to assist in clearing GZ. After all the Sandford PD didn’t want him arrested in the first place.
At the risk of getting my head bitten off, Sasha, why all the conspiracy theories?
1. Conspiracy in atty general’s office.
2. Conspiracy in governor’s office.
3. Conspiracy with GZ father’s “connections”.
and now…
4. Conspiracy in Sanford Police Department.
Have I missed any?
I haven’t read Sashas response yet, I am still plodding through emails. Although sasha and I disagree about the verdict and guilt of GZ, I also feel as though there were a lot of conspiracies in this case. That would see a fact to me. All these people fired and moved around. No arrest until a lot of political pressure beared down. It is clear to me there were a lot of decisions made based on politics. Why is the mayor meeting with witnesses and the victim? etc.
This whole case is a wad of piss poor decisions based on politics and public pressure. Sasha and I merely disagree as to who benefitted and who suffered as a result of these conspiracies.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:07 AM, Tamara Tattles
Sandra, I have no plan to bite off your head. And yes, your list is right on.
Those are not theories, this is all information was published by reputable sources. Check them out. I thought you were on top of this trial. All the good stuff comes out and is available for review long before the trail starts.
PS: Forgot one:
5. Mayor’s office.
biggest conspiracy of all. Completely inappropriate.
Sasha, Have been watching the whole trial from day one, gavel to gavel as HLN says. I have purposely avoided any pre-trial media bias, for one side or the other because I chose to view this from the standpoint of evidence presented in court, just as a juror (hopefully) would.
I am a few minutes behind due to constant interruptions so this city manager dude has just sat down and he already seems PISSED OFF about being called.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Tamara Tattles
I just heard that the defense could rest as early as Wed or Thurs and go to jury by Fri. So no rebuttal by prosecution?
I hope they finish this week. That would be great. I don’t know if you read my comment to rose, but, I think GZ will walk. IMO he shouldn’t but, i can’t say anything nice about the prosecution.
The presumption of innocence until proof of guilt seems like a novel concept when reading some opinions.
Your passion for research & detail made this a terrific piece to read Tamaratattles. While in the minority, I also agree with you that it seems to me that the State has failed to prove its case although because this has become a high profile one, that includes the introduction of race, I agree that the judge could not dismiss it.
The tragedy is that a young man is dead & the man who took that life will never be the same. Two lives are over regardless if malice was involved.
Well, the defense got the THC thing in, now it will be before the jury. Who knows if he smoked pot before going out – probably. Having a grown son that does – I know he gets horribly moody – especially when he’s not smoked for a while. But my fear is synthetic pot, although it’s supposed to be illegal – it can still be found at some convenience stores. It does alter moods, very badly, almost to the point where the police need to be called.
Along the lines of the synthetic stuff, I was thinking that myself. I haven’t been following this trial as closely but I thought the THC evidence wasn’t initially allowed? Was it somehow brought up in court that now allows the defense to pursue it?
I believe what happened is that the prosecution wanted to play portions of George’s initial phone call. O’Mara exercised the rule of completion which means he can require the entire context to be played. In doing so the defense played (several times) the first part of the call where GZ said TM appeared to be on drugs. That opened the door to allow the tox report into evidence.
I THINK.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Tamara Tattles
It was my understanding that once the ME, Bao?, changed parts of his report, he said that THC levels might or might not have caused TM to be in a state of stonehood…..therefore, a door was opened.
TT, who needs HLN??? You are WAAAYYY better!! You missed your calling!! Thanks for doing your homework…well done!!
Thanks, Y’all
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Tamara Tattles
In the end, it may be that it is the Stand Your Ground law that is on trial, even more so than GZ. With that in mind, and considering how that law has been distorted, I’m all for jury nullification on this one and find GZ guilty.
What is your understanding of the law, and how has it been distorted in this case?
TT? Where’s that hard swing you swang in response to a past comment regarding jury nullification on a Jodi Arias post? C’mon batter up!
Sorry I was busy BLAWGING. Please go read them all mama needs a new pair of shoes. Or some Effexor if we are being honest.
I used the THIS IS NOT A STAND YOUR GROUND CASE stick instead.
Once more with feeling. Stand Your Ground Law is not being presented in this case. This is a straight up self defense case.
and so it should be
I have a question that just came to me this evening. When the 911 dispatcher asked if GZ was following TM, and then told him “we don’t need you to do that”, is it because the police don’t want people following anyone for any reason, or is it because they are afraid that if TM IS a bad guy, that GZ could be hurt? They were obviously asking George about TM’s description; race, clothing, what he’s doing, the address where he was, etc. It’s just not clear to me why they told him “we don’t need you to do that”. The dispatcher could have said “Don’t do that. Go back to your vehicle and lock the doors”. He just said “we don’t need you to do that”. To me that doesn’t sound like a direct command, but more of a preference, probably for GZ’s safety. I’m just confused about the value of, and whether this piece of audio tape really means that GZ was aggressively pursuing TM, or was he just keeping his eye on him at a distance until the police arrived?
Trialchatter, you are in the right place with your name.
The 911 operator, while on the witness stand said they did not give direct demands, as they did not have that kind of authority, I’m presuming as a cop would have talking to GZ. I’m sure he told GZ ‘we don’t need you to do that’ for his safety and the safety of anyone else that might be around. The operator also said they are responsible for how they handle a call.
GZ said he’d lost him, the dispatcher said “where is he going” and GZ began to follow him. I do believe he was following TM to see where he was going or what he might do until the police arrived. I just wondered if on other occasions when the police was called if they drove up with their lights on and sirens blaring. That might explain why ‘they always got away’!
trialchatter what Rose said, and more specifically (watch trial, i think day 2 on youtube if you want it straight from the horse’s mouth), is that they cannot assume any liability (legal) for telling someone what to do……….they can only advise, not direct or order.
Good point about the lights and sirens. That would make sense as to why GZ would say ‘they always get away’. Perhaps he was frustrated with previous attempts to get the police to respond quickly, and for what ever reason, decided he was going to keep his eye on TM until the cops arrived.
It’s a huge tragedy. GZ’s life will never be the same once this is over, whether he is acquitted or found guilty, and of course TM will never have the opportunity to grow up into the type of young man that his brother seems to be. Both families have suffered. It’s just so sad.
Right before my fabulous date night, i thought i shared breaking info……….although it is now not-so, so forgive any redundancy if it shows her, but
THC is in………………..enter Paranoia and aimless wondering neighborhood by TM by defense. I stand by what bit of info i shared based on limited research. I do not think that his THC blood levels matter for state of mind. Others with no hx of use, well they might. The urine and THC carboxy levels are also low , but collectively they indicate that TM smoked dope. i would bet that maybe that day, but likely hours, if not days before.. But still, TM marijuana use is on table. To me, this is like saying a 16 year old has drunk beer in the past. But, for jury, may make a difference and, also, tarnish .
I have thought often, were i on the jury, i would be wondering WHY TM was not in school in Miami where i thought he was said to be attending. Judge clearly not allowing suspension issues and fact mom was trying so hard to get him where he could do better. Very sad and i bet mom feels so helpless and guilty (being there and doing that myself)
Heard some ACooper talk about conveience store dope that is potent………find it interesting only in that the 7-11 tape shows TM reaching down to pick up something after purchse and prior to esit under the cooler. thoughts?
Dr. Drew had a retired medical examiner that said from the amount of THC in TM’s liver, he had probably not smoked marijuana for about 3 hours.
My brother is the administrator of several substance abuse clinics/rehabs and he told me there is a synthetic pot that is being sold in convenience stores around here. It was at first sold legally but is now illegal as no one knows the side effects of using it for an extended period of time. But the stores still sell it from the back of the store. I have to admit being vey suspicious of the cashier of the 7-11 where TM bought the Skittles and tea as he seemed to be coming from the back of the store. I did wonder what TM went back and picked up. But, I figured that goes back to my suspicious mind and what I’ve been told from a very reliable source. I’m not saying TM bought marijuana there.
That would be spice, which makes people very aggressive.
Spice affects are almost 100% different than pot, other than creating a buzz. It can cause death from heart attack, and causes paranoia & hostility.
They find anything like that in TM’s system…..it would be muy interesting.
The tox report shows regular pot.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Tamara Tattles
Spice, huh? gonna have to research this…………..i would share an adage:
“The absence of presence may not mean the presence of absence.” What i mean is that you can only get positives or negatives on thing you test for. Remote example: If i send body for toxicology testing-someone thinks their neighbor poisoned their dog….i have to list things to look for. Autopsy findings might be consistent with some stuff, but chemicals are so various that you can’t say the pet died from arsenic unless you test for arsenic. So, (sorry for being repetative)….what i saw in toxo were positives for THC and its metabolites. I saw no negative tests for cocaine, meth, alcohol, etc. I ASSUME (pendajA that i am), that these were tested and tested negative. I just rechecked report and stand by that notation. I also did note that personal effects included clothing, watch and $0.10——-but neither cell phone nor lighter were listed???? Incompetence or were these items listed in another grouping? What about tea, skittles and plastic 7-11 bag? Maybe those things were considered evidence and shifted elsewhere??
I must confess that I had to look up the meaning of pendejo/pendeja on-line. I found that it is a vulgar term literally translated to mean “pubic hair.”……WTF?……No comprendo! 🙂
slang means idiot or asshole…………..i defer to puravida LOL 🙂
I thought it meant cunt.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Tamara Tattles
“what’s in a name? A rose by another name….”
“…smells as sweet.” Tee-hee.
Rose, at the very beginning of his show, Dr. Drew laughed at the fact that the judge is letting in the ME’s report regarding marijuana in Trayvon’s system. He actually said, “marijuana doesn’t not cause aggression.
It’s unbelievable how many irrelevant issues have been brought up in this trail. So far, I still believe GZ is guilty and should go to prison, but I question the skills of the prosecution. GZ may just be a free man when this is over.
Marijuana could affect people in different ways. One of my brothers ALWAYS wanted to fight when he smoked it as did a cousin. I have heard that is very unusual, however. Maybe it was something in their genetics!
I think most of us probably think certain things are irrelevant in court cases but the lawyers have their reasons. If TM’s THC level was really high and it made him paranoid and reckless I might understand it better. We should get a better understanding when we’ve heard how the defense is going to use it.
I don’t think the THC stuff is really that relevant either. Most every pot head I know is sort of a vegetable on pot. I do not smoke pot. I did try it in my early years and was either incredible sleepy or the most paranoid person on the planet. PSA: If you are all alone on an island with no roads and one car. A TON of wildlife including bobcats and possums and raccoons and you decide to try your boyfriends pot because it always makes you sleepy and you are terrified of all the orange eyes staring at you as you lay in your sleeping bag with no tent. DON’T DO IT. #PARANOIA
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:53 AM, Tamara Tattles
Rose, I think the paranoia may have resulted from Gz following him.
Sasha, you appear to be very knowledgeable about this trial and all the goings-on. You have a lot of information pertaining to all the background details. ~ GZ’s police record, George’s father’s connections, AG’s office, Governor’s office and the police department. I am not trying to be confrontational, just curious………. Have you researched this trial purely out of your own curiosity or is it something more personal? You have been very adamant about your feelings of GZ’s guilt, so I thought, perhaps, you may have a personal connection. Just asking!
I thought the defense calling Tracy Martin to the stand was a wash or slight win for the prosecution. Who among us who are parents did not feel pain at his loss? There was the part where his testimony basically called 2 police officers liars. I have read that there were several instances of the dad being caught in flasehoods that will be highlighted when the defense calls the Martin family’s attorney (dang my sometimers disease, I can’t remember his name) to the stand after Sunday nights deposition. Just gossip at this point.
Ben Crump?
When GZ was doing his reenactments for the police, did he mention screaming for help? He remembered that TM covered his mouth and nose and pounded his head. I think the police dropped the ball in the very beginning because initially they thought TM was a street kid or nobody would be looking for him. TM’s body should have been handled as a crime scene and not just the ME picking up an unknown dead body off the street. My opinion: The police should have had GZ examined and critical evidence should have been documented by and preserved. The police did not appear to follow proper protocol in this case and therefore there is no sustainable evidence. I’m sure the defense knows it and they are hitting the state over the head with it every chance they get. There is a dead boy in the morgue, not identified and then the police is tells the shooter, it is no big deal, go about your business. I think the state thinks the jury will sort through it and come up with a decision, but I don’t think they will be able too. What happens if they cannot come to a unanimous decision? This is a real life trainwreck in slow motion!
You make a lot of assumptions. Why would the police think someone in a gated community was a “street kid”? He was well dressed, had obviously purchased snacks from a nearby store. Do you honestly think the they police would just assume no one would be looking for a dead child? To me these are very odd assumptions to make.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Tamara Tattles
Katrina, he did say he was yelling for help. TT i agree.
WOW this animation is really cool. I hope it gets in! I want to see it. It makes everything make sense. You see how close the Good patio was to the fight. (VERY CLOSE) and where everything took place and in what order. Clothes match and everything.
Did anyone testify today?
I’m on YouTube now and some guy is being questioned about an animation, I’m presuming of the crime scene. Obviously the state doesn’t want the jury to view it.
I missed the entire day. Both my daughters were at the hospital today. Pregnant one maybe be developing pre-eclampsia so is in the hospital for 24 hours to collect urine to be checked for protein. My older daughter on the stairs today and twisted her knee cap to the left side of her knee! It was so horrible looking but a quick fix at the hospital. It’s been a very long day.
Good Grief Rose! Sorry you had such a rough day. Hope tomorrow is better.
yes, motherhood, the gift that keeps on giving…………Rose, you missed dimario talking about alot regarding GSW and also GZ facial injuries………also voice id witness/neighbor………….rest i am unsure……..plan to youtube………….but, in reality, what you missed were major fireworks from the other blog re: 7-11 post by TT post itself interesting, but i sense alot of bigots there, not really knowing the court case and evidence so much as trying to trash TT and stuff………..annoying and in need of babysitters and possibly spankings……….not their opinions, it is attitude and lack of foundation for their opinions (gee, i haven’t been watching too many trials have it?) Di maio was pretty spectacular……..though i missed alot.
Interesting take. Are you sure you didn’t go to law school? That was very well written! LOL.
However, just because the state cannot prove that Zimmerman acted with ill will, doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t have been charged with anything. I agree that the case may have a weak (but not impossible) case on 2nd degree murder, however, they have a strong case for manslaughter in my opinion.
George’s action prior to the confrontation shows ill will. The f*cking punks comment and the general hatred he seemed to show for young black men in the neighborhood (based on his prior 911 calls) can lead to an inference of ill will or hatred. I’m not sure why the state is keeping race out of this (they were probably advised to), but it is definitely a factor.
I am usually (well always) very defense minded, but I am hoping for a conviction (on something) with this one. I can admit that I am a bit biased here though.