I cannot for the life of me get this video to embed. Its almost 5 am and I need to sleep. Will try againg tomorrow. Update: Still won’t embed in post but is now the first comment. Sorry that comments were accidently off until now.
I have not been home long and probably should have waited until tomorrow but I was dying to hear some more of Rachel Jeantel’s testimony. I feel sorry for this girl. She clearly did not want to testify, it must be humiliating for her to be asked to read on national television (even silently). I think she has a very low IQ but not low enough where she doesn’t know her own intellectual limitations. She clearly has a very difficult time attempting to read, as noted by her subvocalizing and the amount of time it takes her to “read” five lines of notes.
The prosecution seems to think she is their strongest witness, yet she was impeached multiple times, admitted to lying under oath previously and is combative and incoherent. The Smoking Gun has some deleted tweets where she discussing drinking and smoking pot and she can’t spell ‘asshole.’ She is a 19 year old High School Senior with a minimal grasp of the English language who has been tweeting about wanting to be a “homicide detective” while admittedly drunk and stoned. If this is the best the prosecution has, Zimmerman walks. So barring a vast improvement in the prosecutions evidence to show that Zimmerman was NOT acting in self-defense, y’all might as well get a headstart on blaming the jury now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUmlx9SrFA4
Sorry, I have no idea why comments were off. Just noticed when trying to see if I can post video here.
I don’t know who got a hold of this young lady overnight and transformed her but she is doing much better today. I’m going to guess it was her grandmother if she has one. Only big mama can cause that sort of dramatic change in attitude.
I dozed in and out of testimony this morning while fighting to stay awake and watch. I felt bad when she admitted she could not read cursive handwriting. Cursive writing has gone the way of the dinosaur though and is no longer taught in schools because you do not need it for THE BIG TEST which is don’t on a computer or scantron sheet.
Also I thought the cursive she could not read was a letter she herself wrote. Can someone explain that to me. I was in and out of wakefulness.
this is the first day I have been able to watch this young lady testify for any length of time, but if today is much better than yesterday..wow, yesterday must have been a total mess!
Love the judge tho..she isn’t taking any crap!
Sorry this video is from yesterday.
yeah, sorry I wasn’t referencing the video you posted-I am currently watching the trial on a live feed. I will watch it later to see how much worse than today she was-and today is bad enough! She clearly wants nothing to do with the trial, or her status as a star witness! I think that’s why she’s mumbling. She also seems to be aware of how un-intelligible her statements are on the tape they are trying to play for the jury today, and seems embarrassed by it.
Tamara, in yesterday’s testimony I believe she said she and her friend wrote the letter to Travon’s mom. She also said friends always helped her text Travon as well.
Is that a roundabout way of her saying she is functionally illiterate?
That is what it sounds like.
Regarding the letter, she actually said that her ‘adult friend’ or a mother of another friend wrote it (transcribed it) for her. She said that she told the woman ‘exactly’ what happened and that person then wrote everything down, supposedly in Rachel’s words.
The confusion about her authorship of the text messages was another thing that came from her total lack of clear pronunciation. Don West (Defense) kept asking her how come there were soooooooooo many TMs between her and Trayvon (in THOUSANDS !!) in just about 25 days (they met back on Feb 2nd, after first knowing each other for 1 year in grade school). His point was that she kept saying she WAS NOT his girlfriend, and yet it seemed like they spent all the time in communication. She then gave some incoherent answers the first couple of times (story of her testimony, sadly), then finally said that it was because they TM’ed all the time, no matter what they were doing (I guess instead of doing homework assignments). After further prompting by Don West, she said that she often texted while driving, but seemed to catch herself as to the non-PC nature of that statement, (again, funny, given the non-PC overtones in the rest of her testimony about which she gave no crap at all). Then she ‘augmented’ her statement by declaring that sometimes, when they were in the car, her friends would also use her phone to text Trayvon, sending him some questionable messages, pretending they were from her, just to be silly. Whatever, not that it matters now.
I think these two points in her testimony were the perfect reflection of her whole presence on the stand. She was incoherent, kept mumbling, was nonsensical, and when asked repeatedly by the lawyers, the judge, the court reporter, and even at some point by some jurors, to PLEASE REPEAT IT because they COULD NOT F-ING UNDERSTAND IT, she would add or change things in her answers.
The only thing consistent about her whole testimony was her complete lack of consistency. Were I on that jury, I’d have disregarded everything she said, as she clearly was there in a specific mindset, determined to still protect Trayvon and his family, and blame everything and everyone else for what happened. I’m not saying she was lying specifically to incriminate Zimmerman, but in her attempts to protect and advocate for Trayvon, she did not seem to realize that there were only TWO people there, and if she kept sanitizing her testimony about Trayvon, then automatically she was casting more blame on Zimmerman.
I also can’t believe, that at almost 20 years old, she CAN’T READ cursive. I don’t care what excuses people come up with – that’s just so incomprehensible to me, it honestly blows my mind. The mindset of this generation, with their entitlements, their me-me-me obsessions, their fame chasing with no accomplishments to justify it, their complete lack of respect for others and their property, especially for authority figures, their persistent blame-shifting to everybody else, etc. etc. etc – it makes me weep for the future of this once great country.
Finally, people also seem to have conveniently chosen to blame Don West for everything that was wrong with Rachel’s testimony and her attitude. I find it ridiculous that they say HE was disrespectful in pushing her to admit she could not read etc, when in truth he was re-crossing after the prosecution’s re-direct. The prosecutor tried to make it sound like she was some multi-lingual idiot-savant who was simply hampered by our IDIOTIC DEMAND that while in this country, where the official language is English, that she actually speak English which was her 3rd language (the other two she most likely ‘speaks’ with the same level of proficiency). Only upon re-cross it came out that she was born in Miami, lived here all her life, went to all English-speaking schools all her life, and even at home in conversations with her family used predominantly English, sometimes switching to Creole for her mother. So she is not some poor immigrant, as the prosecution tried to portray her, who was doing her best to accommodate us by trying to speak English in court and getting so upset about people’s inability to understand her. She is in fact an American adolescent who went all the way through the educational system without bothering to learn to speak, write and read proper English, unless it was splashed on a computer or I-Phone screen. Her attitude of entitlement, her complete disrespect for the lawyers and the court, were glaring examples of what this generation is all about, and I now have a much better understanding of who and what Trayvon was. I think she totally backfired for the prosecution, because I now believe that Trayvon, with the same attitude and world-view, was most likely the one who attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around. I find it highly probable now that he was offended that someone DARED to look at him sideways, and would have turned back, and started the confrontation demanding respect and itching for a fight. Her attitude on the stand emphasized for me that that was probably the same attitude he had that fateful night, as it seems to be a default one for this generation. Bad Prosecution Witness.
Well with all of that TG you are not on the witness stand. This is about the outcome of a man who stalked and killed T.M. Perhaps Zimmerman was losing the fight that ensued and so he killed this kid? Maybe T.M. was a snotty little teenager who will never get a chance to grow up and become a man because this want to be cop killed him. Who had the gun and who got out of their car and followed this child after being told not to. Now you want to make a case against this girl who is a shaky uncooperative witness as if she should suddenly turn into some educated privileged member of the oligarchy to bear witness to what she heard. Sorry… what you have is a young woman with little to no real education and the crappy attitude of a teenager. Welcome to the world in which many white people think all black people who are not Oprah are suspect and not all black people are saintly martyrs.These are all real people and from your writing (and a few others) you have had little to no contact with the teenagers in this world. Unfortunately when a white man with a gun kills one then we see clearly the underlying subtle racism those of us in the north are use to dealing with. You pick and pick and pick until you see what you had in mind anyway. Why bother watching the trial when you mind is already made up?
Oh and by the way it is not black kids in the hood that feel entitled it is white people who grow up with this attitude and then project it.
Stalked and killed??? So far the evidence is not supportive of that theory. Have your personal viewpoint but the verdict will and should be based on the evidence.
She said that a friend wrote the letter for her. I taught GED courses for a while. People who cannot read ALWAYS have a reader with them. If someone comes to fill out a job application and asks to take it home and bring it back, you can almost bet they are functionaly illiterate. One of my favs was a high school graduate and he did not know his alphabet letters. I asked him what he did in a restaurant when they brought the menu. His answer was so sad and I shall never forget it. He said he ordered a steak and baked potato b/c all restaurants serve that. Please dear God, do not allow people to mock her.
People are mocking this girl and it makes me angry. She is a Haitian girl who has a shaky education and speaks an almost a dialect of English. She was only 18 when this occurred and she does not want to be there. I can’t stand the fact people are making fun of this kid like she has to be some Rhodes scholar to be credible. This what they are like in some backward areas be it in the south or north, west or eastern ghettos. This is what the public education system is putting out in crappy neighborhoods. I don’t say she is unintelligent but she is inarticulate. I also have to say I don’t know how articulate many of us were at her age.
She is American, not Haitian. Probably never been to Haiti. I have compassion for her predicament but you really can’t possibly think here communication skills are anywhere near age appropriate.
How about Haitian American?
My family is Caribbean American and though I have never been to Cuba or Jamaica I still hold onto my roots and traditions. Not all of us are some kind of generic American and nor do many of the children of immigrants wish to be. In some households they might as well be from a different country they way they are reared.
I really think the jury isnt gonna be so hard on her not all the truths. I think they will see her for a teen girl dragged into something she didnt want to do. Most of the jurors are mothers so they know what a reluctant teen is like. What i like most about her testmony is how she can make yes sir sound like f**k you. Ya cant teach that
I agree with that assesssment Steve! Her “yes sir” sounds like sarcasm,bird flip, are you stupid, I wish I was somewhere else….all rolled into one lol.
Steve, you said it best. Each “sir” is a big F you to the lawyer.
She’s saying “Yes, cur” which happens in the military when the subordinate feels they’re talking to a particularly odious, dense, or repugnant higher ranking officer.
I think the jury will ultimately decide that they can’t use her testimony because of the communication issues and the fact that she has told so MANY stories. Also, as a mother of a past teenager, her story is crap. To me, it looks like she’s hiding something. She clearly doesn’t want to say anything that might implicate Trayvon in any way, so…too much bias. I feel for this poor girl, but I can’t give her testimony any weight.
Having said that, there is no excuse for Trayvon to be dead. GZ shouldn’t have been prowling around with a gun, even after being told not to. He is not law enforcement, and went way beyond the role of neighborhood watch. Maybe Trayvon was trying to check out who GZ was, and figure out what he was doing creeping after a teenaged boy on a rainy night. Who knows? Because of GZ’s actions, we can’t ask Trayvon.
She is starting to lose her composure now. They sent the jury out to play the depo she gave. Defense wants to play it for the jury. She is very frustrated. The prosecution is trying to keep the tape out.
The problem is that the young lady is so illiterate that the meaning of what she says is often ambiguous. The defense thinks she says she means she “couldn’t” hear Trayvon when it sounds like she could be saying she “could.” Rachel is very frustrated and really wants it to be over. I felt like this last night with the customs dude. You have to maintain composure and Yes Sir the dude to death but you are helpless to leave and must continue answering the same question OVER and OVER. I feel her pain.
Ohhh God – I hate feeling trapped ! Assuming you got home safe & sound. so now …Welcome Home ! 🙂
Did you say she is a senior? How did she become a senior if she can not read, or speak for that matter. This is just sad.
TT the def did that yesterday too. They get her rattled and then what composure she has is gone. Repeatedly asked the same questions it seemed just to get her angry. Its the court games the lawyers are good at. She still has gotten important info to the jury
Here she is today
“I could hear grass”. Is that kinda like “I see dead people”. I’m glad he asked “what does wet grass sound like”. I’m sorry but I don’t think the prosecutor should have used this girl.
I missed that. Do recall what her answer was?
yea…..she said, after much eye rolling and hesitation….”you know, wet and like leaves and rolling”…….cbs comment had someone with links to the sound of wet grass (ROFLMAO)
West asked “what does wet grass sound like?” and RJ said, “wet and like leaves and rolling”. West said, I understand you say you heard wet leaves of grass. What do wet leaves of grass sound like?” RJ replied, “like wet grass”. Her answers did not answer the question, rather, were circular. West continued trying to get her to clarify what wet grass sounds like until the judge interrupted and said “she answered your question as best as she could. let’s move on”. The judge was out of line, in my opinion, because RJ’s entire testimony is about what she heard. Therefore every element of what she heard should be fully explored until the answer is given to the defense’s satisfaction. The fact the RJ cannot describe what grass sounds like is no reason to pretend she has given as good a description as she can. This whole testimony is a disaster for the prosecution, but actually beneficial because so many people are on the intellectual level of RJ that they likely think she’s doing just fine and is completely unimpeachable.
This poor girl is getting jacked up in the media (social and otherwise). I feel sory for her too, because you can tell with the attys asking the same questions 12 different ways, it’s making her very agitated. And reporters do the same thing, with asking the same questions in different ways (with a word change or two) trying to trip people up so they can “pounce” or get a “gotcha moment”. I hope she can get thru this, and still be intact (psychologically) afterwards.
I think Don West is the best person for this witness. He really is being as gentle as possible. He has to keep asking her because her answers make no sense.
Thats true I agree.
That’s what happens in a trial.
Why would she not be “intact” psychologically afterwards? Because she doesn’t want to be there or answer a question more than once?
I said that because she comes across to me as someone who out of her element in this courtroom situation, and to have people gawking at you saying God knows what, is probably super un-nerving to her. And the fact that she IS so inarticulate, well it just makes me think that she might be “traumatized” after this is over with. Some of our teens don’t seem to handle trauma well (these days). Then again, girlfriend may be perfectly fine.
I’d agree that she is out of her element. Obviously. She looks as though she wants to deck the defense instead of answering the questions. It shows in her surliness and spitting out the word “sir” at him.
She appears very resilient to me. She’s not cracking under pressure, she’s pissed off and showing it.
She only got really emotional when asked or talking about Trayvon’s parents and the funeral services.
I don’t agree with the “she doesn’t want to be in the court giving testimony” statements some are making here. I’ve watched her body language, her facial expressions and her proud carriage (strut, if you will) when she’s “on” and being solicitously and gently questioned by the Prosecutor. The hair, platform-spikeheeled shoes, hair and nails are clear indicators that she fully knew she’d be the center of attention and seems pleased to have people looking at her. She does NOT enjoy being the focus of attention is when she is made uncomfortable by questions from “the other bald guy”, West, that do not build reflect well on her (nothing unusual there). Then she becomes pouty, irritated, recalcitrant, a bit spiteful, and defensive. But when things are easy for her, she’s happy to be there. So let’s cut the business about “poor thing, she just wants to be anywhere but on the witness stand.”
OMG – this is so painful. Haven’t they got out of her want they want ? I too, feel bad for this witness. Maybe somehow the essence of her testimony will remain. I feel asleep @ the computer w/ my TV on next to me – I bet the jury is trying hard not to bob off. Even Judge asked them to move-on several times. I don’t think she’s going to give him want he wants ! Wonder if dragging this testimony on & on would lose some jurors like Nurmi in JA’s trial ? It was like pulling a tooth out a little bit each day. Everyone is being patient, thank god. I don’t know if I could say the same for myself. ~ Suddenly summer is slipping fast…!
I don’t think the jury is going to take any of her testimony seriously in a manslaughter case. Not a word. She’s not intelligent enough to make a point.
If any of those women on the jury were ever teachers they will quickly realize that she is in a special education program. Most 19 year olds will drop out of school and go for a GED rather than stay in a mainstream classroom. However, if you have a SPED diagnosis, you can stay until you are 21. I believe she is in a skills program where they try to teach her some sort of manual skill that she can use to become a part of the workforce.
Her testimony has completely sunk the prosecution’s case.
I agree.
The women on the jury, if they are mothers. will dislike the attitude she carries, as well.
She is not credible in any sense of the word.
I believe she could be as dumb as a box of rocks and still know what she heard. Can she articulate it properly, probably not. We shouldn’t dismiss her entire testimony because her intellectual level is extremely low. She heard what she heard, even if she thought it was grass. She knew what would happen if she was brought into this. I’m sure that’s why she did her best to avoid it.
I’m reminded of the PHDs, in the Jodi Arias trial. They lied like champs.
Rachel was just asked about her parents language – I missed if she said she speaks Creole (as a 1st language?) Yes, I agree, I wonder if she was made to stay in school. I’m not so sure the prosecution’s case is sunk, though. I bet she will garner favor by some of them. Since it’s Florida Sunshine – How many more witnesses are there for prosecution ? Has there been a list published ?
JeanKasars said quite the opposite yesterday.
From smokinggun.com: “According to her Facebook profile, Jeantel attended Miami Norland Senior High School and has studied criminal justice at Miami University.”
That’s hard to believe.
FACEBOOK self reported info is not considered valid info.
Thank God for that. It’s hard enough running English from a distance and, as the Queen of England on my Facebook, I just can’t hire good help these days. 🙂
*England. See, even queens can’t avoid a typo now and then…
I didn’t say it was “valid info”. I was trying to be nice and not say that she’s full of crap.
She appears to possibly have an IQ in the dull-normal range, and perhaps some additional learning disabilities. If she has such conditions, I think it would be necessary to take that into account both from what we should expect in the way of testimonial style (indeed, she actually could be doing as well as she can) and in the reliability of her testimony.
Rachel’s sarcasm, ie, “I was been payin attention, SIIIR, suggests to me that she is trying very hard to control herself, but I am beginning to see a young lady who is not a shrinking violet when it comes to an argument. I hope that she didn’t encourage Trayvon (though egging him on) to be aggressive toward GZ. If that’s the case, oh my lord!
Her disrespect and snotty attitude are over the top! Can the judge charge her with contempt of court?
Not going to happen though it should.
Touchette, on her surliness and being resilient. You’re right!
Have you seen many of these kids? They are hostile and I can’t say I blame them . Look at the world we are rearing them in. Look what poverty does to them. Look at the future we are handing them. If I were a 18/19 year old girl in these circumstances I would be ticked off too.
The world WE are rearing them in? I’m sorry, but isn’t it the responsibility of the parents who begat the child to do the rearing, or are you in the “it takes a village” mindset where it’s everybody’s fault if somebody goes nowhere in life? Further, are all young people like this or just some of them? Are ALL poor black children doomed to be just like RJ? Or are there many, like Walter Williams and Clarence Thomas, who go on to make enormous contributions? Even Al Sharpton managed to land a gig on MSNBC where he goes absolutely ghetto frequently and still manages to make himself (mostly) understood.
Possibly you’re a little to eager to absolve Ms. Jeantel of all responsibility for her activities and actions earlier in life that have led to her making a fairly complete hash of what she should be doing: telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth… understandably. Is that too much to ask of her as a citizen of this country?
Do they charge anyone with contempt or perjury (baez or mrs. anthony) in Florida ? (…joking)
I personally think she is so inarticulate, unintelligble, uninterested, contradictory and combative the jury will not be too sympathetic with her or mostly even relate to her unwillingness to help the case in any way. I can’t believe the judge doesn’t admonish her in any way from what I’ve seen. His parents must be so frustrated with her. She clearly does not want to be there.
I don’t entirely understand why African Americans have such difficulty saying the word “ask”. Ms. Jeantel certainly has no trouble with other words that begin with “as”, such as “a-hole”.
Do you mean African Americans as a whole, or this young lady?
Generally, yes.
I don’t entirely understand why southern whites have such difficulty saying the word “something”. Usually is comes out like, “sumthun”. See what I did there?
“I is what I is”… Wonder who said that in an interview on a major network? Humph!
I couldn’t believe it when she said that.
AngieB, Southerners, of every color, tend to “drop their g’s” and do weird things with the sounds of the letters “a,” “i,” and “o” especially. We do it for the same reason Bostonians have such distinctive regional accents, and people from Massachusetts insert an “r” sound in words that don’t have an “r” in them…”law is pronounced “lawr.”
People from New Jersey sound as if they’re talking through their noses, and people from Minnesota just plain sound funny.
We don’t know why; we just do. Because we are geographically a large nation and a diverse nation in many ways, we speak differently. We don’t even all speak English. Many of us have a “home” language and a “professional” language. I use all kinds of crazy Southernisms at home and with friends, but in a more formal setting, I use standard English and as close as I can come to Standard English usage and pronunciation. It would be great if children were taught to use both their “home” languages and Standard English appropriately and effectively and to understand that both are valuable and parts of their cultural heritages. Now, have I made you sorry you asked? (You probably sound funny to South Carolinians.)
I cannot ABIDE the Tennessee accent where they drop the l in words like cold and old and say instead code and ode. I do not know why this particular dialect is like nails on a chalkboard to me, but it is.
The prosecution has not even come close to proving this is not a case of self defense. They are calling people who were eyewitnesses saying TM was on top beating the shit out of GZ and GZ was screaming for help. Seriously? This prosecutor needs to be fired. He had better do something soon because all of his witnesses support the defense. I have never seen anything like this. I gave him a pass on Rachel because clearly she is intellectually and behaviorally challenged, but it just keeps getting worse. She actually was his start witness. This is really unbelievable. I predict a very short deliberation and a NG verdict. I really don’t even see the point of watching anymore.
jfwilliams………..I’ll give you that Bostonians have a distinctive regional accent…….but where did you come up with people from Massachusetts insert an “r” sound in words that don’t have an “r”? Just asking because…….I took my mothah and fathah out for a lobstah dinnah tonight in my new cah! See, I didn’t say newr cah! 🙂
one of my dearest friends from Boston always puts “r” at end of her kids name: “Marie-er” just her dialect….love her and don’t care, BUT IT IS TRUE!!! (much as i have extremely long vowels sound in my dialect…………..ex: ‘SHIIIIIIIT”
Interesting point. In the vernacular of some blacks “ask” is pronounced as “aks” which sounds like “ax”. Rarely do you hear, “I ax-t”, past tense. It’s nearly always “I ax” which is for more than one tense. “I goin’ ax him” is future tense, but “I ax him” is present, but also past tenses. So in a court of law, the potential for confusion would have to be addressed by the attorney seeking clarification of the witness’s meaning and intention, if only for the appeals record. A relaxed way of intoning words by a witness, such as of “ask” or “something”, may be common or typical for some people, but they should be prepared for dumb looks from others and shouldn’t get huffy when their colloquial way of speaking leads to puzzlement. RJ was getting huffy because her pronunciation and grammar are not broadly intelligible. The judge should not have allowed her to continue with her attitude. An admonishment to the witness was in order but wasn’t forthcoming.
You came to this understanding because you’ve heard every African American pronounce this word, right?
No, I guess she is the only one, ever.
I have a serious Chicago accent and anyone who does not come from the Midwest sounds strange to me. Southerners, white and black, always sounded like any moment someone was going to put up a confederate flag or invite me to a barbecue.
All this not so subtle racism on how black people sound… Here let me tell you a little secret… many black families relocated away from the south for better opportunities and to escape horrific racism. When they came north the vast majority of time they lived in segregated neighborhoods with other relocated black people. Their accent changed somewhat and as a result you hear axed instead of asked. Speak with some Hispanic Americans who grow up in their own barrios and they will have a Spanish lilt to their voices as if they are fresh immigrants. We all have some kind of an accent and to others it sounds odd. I think the worst accent in the world is a tie between that horrible swampy Florida accent, the muddy sound of anyone from Mississippi and the accents of ANYONE from New Jersey except Cory Booker. It just raises the hair on the back of my neck and makes me cringe.
Now what is the next ask a black person to explain her culture question?
Not me. I lost my train of thought toward the end when I started daydreaming about Cory Booker. 🙂
I’ve always associated the ‘axe’ instead of ask as a socio-economic slangy kind of thing…honestly I’ve only ever heard young people both white and black use it and it’s like nails on a chalkboard to me. I hate it – I hate that it bugs me so much, lol. It just sounds uneducated like so many young people these days using double negatives trying to sound *shudder* – cool. It’s not cool, just ignorant sounding. Yep, I’m sure sounding like an old fogey these days!! signed, Old Fogey and proud to have survived to be one 😀
I hope this trial will show the ignorance and prejudice that exists in this country on the part of both black and white citizens.
My comment may have been somewhat snide, so please do not misinterpret it as being anything else.
Ok Paula
Here’s the thing, IMHO, people get so caught up in trying NOT to be a bigot that they forget to call it like it looks (i would say call a spade a spade, but someone will call that statement racist)…..bigotry goes both ways, FOR ABSOLUTE SURETY……………DON’T BELIEVE???? REVIEW OJ SIMPSON OR CHECK OUT HLN OF LATE…………complete devotion without any basis on fact or evidence/testimony. Scares the hell out of me!!!!
I honestly don’t care if this girl is purple – and polka dots. She’s disrespectful and has lied on stand. Her posturing, remarks, eye rolls, etc., are an example of how some of the pre 20’s behave. I will say this, Mr. West is a bit much himself. What is with him drinking water all the time? And the knock-knock joke – seriously! But I am surprised that the judge has not admonished her but the once for answering his questions before he completed them.
The judge is such a pill. Her bias against the defense is blatantly obvious. And seriously, she hasn’t changed her hairstyle since grade four.
Agree that judge is biased against the defense. Just be a judge and don’t show partiality one way or the other.
I think the judge is doing an AWESOME job. Rules on objections quickly and concisely, STARTS EVERY TIME RIGHT ON THE DOT. And doesn’t allow the attys to run up to make speaking objections every five minutes. I was worried about her at first but she seems like a smart cookie.
Ditto TT.
Yes. This judge works EVERY WEEK DAY! Awesome!
I think this girl is just biased. She doesn’t want to say anything that could be used to suggest that Trayvon was the aggressor in the confrontation with GZ. She was Trayvon’s friend, so I’m not surprised she is refusing to admit to anything that doesn’t paint him in a totally innocent light, because that is how she sees it.
Her statements on tape are given in a much stronger voice than the breathy, mumbling tones she is using in court. Interesting to me that she puts her hand over her face when she listens to herself speak on the tape-as if she doesn’t like listening to herself speak.
Of course she is biased. Her friend was murdered damn near while she was on the phone with him.
I don’t get how all the talking heads on HLN keep saying what a great witness she is for the prosecution. How honest and genuine she is. Really?? I must be watching someone else on the stand, because she is coming off as being petulant, bored and arrogant. She clearly doesn’t want to answer any questions in a straightforward manner that would reveal TM as anything else but an angel. Obfuscating the truth. Mr. West is being incredibly patient with her. I wonder how Juan Martinez would have handled this situation… (This is NOT an indictment against Mr. Martinez).
Can y’all who think the judge is biased give some examples? I don’t see it at all.
Other than being curt and a bit short, I don’t see true bias. I’ll be watching to see though.
I was who said she was biased, but I think she has gotten better and it’s my feeling that she’s gotten that way since RJ has been such a disaster. The judge seems to have lost her patience with this girl.
Aside from her age and her lack of eloquence – she is holding fast to what she heard over the phone that night. I bet she won’t budge. Make fun of her or make her mad – but she’s doing what a witness should do despite her attitude. It was her friend that died – she wasn’t just a bystander who was not supposed to snitch. I say she won’t go where Mr. West wants to take her ! In boxing Ali had a term for it but I don’t want to use it here. Attention spans are thin and especially in kids. I can’t keep families kids attention for 5 min. just to get their new cell #’s !
Big differences in her written statements and depositions and her testimony on the stand.
Sure is, Sandra.
That is the purpose of the repeat questions. Inconsistencies arise.
It’s not a problem if the truth was told right from the start.
I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt. Even in court, the attorneys, court reporters and judge were having trouble understanding what she was trying to say. Either she was mumbling or not speaking loudly, so they had her repeat her answers. I don’t believe the defense took that much time doing that during the depositions. She corrected the defense often when they read from the transcripts. I taught court stenography for a few years, and know they record what they hear or what they think they hear. It’s not always what was said.
“Creole ain’t Spanish”
Oh dear.
I think the Defense just cleared that up. She has been reared with Creole, Spanish & English.
They are going to prove she is illiterate.
They don’t have to try… it’s crystal clear.
And her SPED diagnosis is clearly due to a low IQ and or learning disability… or something related to her lack of written, auditory and verbal communication skills and overall processing skills. Clearly this would impact her ability to assess the importance of her testimony beyond “helping her friend”
does anybody remember the first *police academy movie*? She reminds me of Hooks..really quiet and soft spoken until pissed off then look out. I was going to ask the educators if she was a product of no child left behind push them thru school but TT said something about special ed. If she is a SPED student would that affect her understanding of the importance of why she is there?
Nope, just from smokin’ too much dope and inhaling too much hair product. (snark).
Agreed Steve, I’d run from her if I pissed her off… LOL ! ~ I’m analytical as hell, and I still think her testimony is about what she “heard” not how she reads or talks or looks. If the jury accepts that is another thing. – I could make fun of GZ looks too, but I won’t ! (except for his narrow eyes which I already had posted before) – I miss the JA trial… again. (I’m pitiful)
If someone is hearing wet grass, I have to question anything else she says she heard.
Despite what No Child Left Behind said or how much we as teachers wish it were the truth, some students will never read. With that in mind, at some point in time a student has to be promoted. While they may not read, they continue to grow in maturity. Steve, I hope that helps you understand how this happens.
Everyone gets promoted. Understood.
She’s just flummoxed and can’t reply to some questions.
Correction. She doesn’t want to reply.
Trayvon and her culture are racist, as evidenced by her earlier words.
If Paula Deen is racist, so is Trayvon and so is she.
Sure, racist comments ok from African Americans about everybody, but walking on eggshells lest they be offended. Thanks Candace, you are braver than me, but it needed to be said.
You and Candace are really trying to get that fire started. What you don’t realize is, its been lit and stomped out. It’s old news, nobody cares.
Then please explain why you made the next comment below? You seem to be making enough of your own contributions to keep the fire going.
The new normal will have to be that no one is racist.
Blacks can’t do what they accuse whites of.
Poor thing.
I agree. Poor Rachet.
Nope. Trayvon is not racist…he’s dead.
So he’s a dead racist that calls white people “crazy-assed crackers”.
Creepy ass crackers.
JustUs..the ole ropa dopa?…ie Ali?
Yup ! ~ “Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee !” Good fights ! Especially the Forman fight. My Dad lost a bunch of money that night much to my Mom’s dismay. We all had to go down to my Nana’s house packed with Uncles and tons of us grandkids. Everybody screaming and the homemade pasta, sauce, fresh cheese and coffee. ~ I can still smell it right now. Mmm !
I really don’t know anything about the Flordia school system. It may be the same as the state in which I currently live. As for priorities, education is at the extreme bottom of the list. The schools are new, big and well equipped. But, everything else is in disaray. We can’t always blame the kids. The parents should be held accountable, then the local, state and federal systems/govenments.
Thank God, we didn’t live here when my daughter was school age, and thank God for private schools.
I can tell you from experience in Florida, when my son could not read in 2nd grade and the school wanted to continue to pass him to 3rd grade, I told them NO!. I also informed them that if they continued to pass him without my son actually earning if through learning that I would not only take the school, and the school board to court but I would name each of them personally in my lawsuit. After that my son only passed to the next grade if he earned the right by learning and getting the grades to do so, not just because he was older or larger than most other kids in his class. I put my foot down and if parents don’t do that and make sure their children are getting an education then it is the fault of the parent as well as the school.
WOW !! I applaud you. Good for you. The modern eduction system is more than flawed – it’s broken. The dumber the populace the easier they are to control.
Welcome home Tamara!
Remember..this is Florida. We have ZERO CLUE to how this jury will respond. A couple years ago we were all sure ca was gonna be guilty!!
I don’t live in Florida. How would anyone say that the verdict is impacted by this trial happening there.
Any locals who could speak to that?
Has anyone heard why the alternate juror was dismissed? Maybe wet grass sounds like a soft thump when phone lands instead of a harder crash.
Steve, Steve, over here > 🙂 Thanks for reminding me. The jury dismisal slipped right by like a corporation signing off TV famous cooks. I meant to try to check on that or ask our Hostess about it, once she got home ! All I caught was HLN talking about B12 or B7 & something about bingo with Joey Jackson. They started talking about the replacement – then – Commerical cut in !!!!! Grrr ! Also, funny you should ask – it just poured outside half hour ago – I wanted to experiment with my cell phone once my husband got home so I could call him and drop the phone in the grass & visa versa. Probably just rustling sound like butt calls – guess it’s the wet part they’re making of fun of. Remember the “stink” jars of decomposition in the CA trial… I’d pass – PU !
What is your culture that you call people creepy ass cracker? Answer “pervert” Excuse me? “Pervert.” WTF? These are the type of answers she makes. UNBELIEVABLE.
She doesn’t know the word culture. The defense is trying to define it for her in little words. It’s an impossible task. Finally she says that the people in her community call white people crackers. So the defense goes for the kill, “So Trayvon called white people crackers?” She seems to feel cornered and set up there. She has already said that Trayvon called GZ a creepy ass cracker. But she doesn’t seem to realize that. So now suddenly she can’t recall what kind of language Trayvon uses. “I can’t recall” she stuttered out after a long pause while she shuffled to figure out what to say.
Yes. I think she had this little smile on her face when she admitted “yea we call white people crackers”. (Probably not an exact quote) But she didn’t want to admit Trayvon used those words. Too late. She already admitted it in prior testimony.
I agree that she didn’t know the definition of culture. However, I took her pregnant pause as her not knowing if Trayvon regularly called white people crackers,not that he never used the term (as she just said he did that day). Analyzing her answers is very subjective.
She knew that what she was going to say was important. She hesitated because she didn’t know how to answer. She’s very slow.
I thought it was pretty clear she was trying not to answer the question. I suppose it is subjective because who knows what her internal dialogue was. Thanks for sharing because I honestly wouldn’t have thought anyone would interpret it as anything other than a dodge.
I think she meant that in her culture, the meaning of “creepy ass cracker” is “pervert.” I think she was trying to say that Trayvon thought that GZ was a pervert for following him through the neighborhood. Just my take-but I agree, this chick is a nightmare for the defense.
My Q is, with all the “improvements” in the education system since I went to school, WHY are we seeing more kids who are illiterate?? I don’t know how Rachel plans to survive on her own in this world…
It is hilarious to me that so many of y’all want to think this girl does not know the word cracker is a racial slur. It was the word RACIAL that she didn’t know. She said in her testimony that people in her culture (whatever unknown culture this is) call white people crackers. When she said those words on the stand she was smiling at the opportunity to say it.
haha oh I totally agree with you! I think she was telling the lawyer that Trayvon thought GZ was a pervert, that’s all. I’m quite sure she knew that cracker wasn’t a term of endearment!
They tried to break it down for her. Bless her heart.
It still remains that she uses racist terms and follows it up with pervert. That is her telling what her culture says and thinks.
And do tell, what “culture” is that exactly?
She couldn’t define it.
How can I? 🙂
Well, hopefully, you’re not an inarticulate, racist. mumbler with a low IQ of Creole and Spanish decent. And actually, she wasn’t asked to define it.
However, I don’t disagree that she was clueless. Apparently, she isn’t the only one.
I’m not a lawyer, but I did sleep in a Best Western Motel last night.
(commercial in my part of the country)
The lawyers took pains to help her define it.
Your comment is confusing. It now sounds like you agree with me.
No, sir.
You are coming across as intelligent as Rachet. That takes some doing. Did you write that in the same voice she uses? 😉
Please use the actual name of the person you are referring to. I don’t know any commenter or trial participant named Ratchet. Thanks.
Cute, but you didn’t rattle me. You’re a face behind a screen, fingers on a keyboard…and just not that important And I know something you don’t think I know. So carry-on..I’m done with you.
I did not watch the trial, but they asked a 19 year old black girl about culture? I am sre she did not have a clue. All she knows is what she has been taught.
Also, in some households, saying sir is a sign of respect.
That’s a relief. It takes too much time to decipher what you write. 🙂
You are an easy read.
🙂
Taylor…. Hasta la vista, baby!
Yes. I’m glad you understand.
Trayvon was racist.
My understanding of her answer “pervert” is that she believed that she was being asked why the term creepy ass cracker was used. The “creepy ass” was meant to indicate that the man following Treyvon may have been a sexual predator ie a pervert.
Yes, but the question was, what culture are you referring to when you say that those words are used in your culture.
lol sorry I’m late reading this thread. I said the same thing on a comment above, just now, long after you. And while I agree it still doesn’t answer the question Rachel was asked, I’m glad to see someone else thought she was trying to say the same thing I did. When I first heard it, I actually thought she was calling the attorney a pervert LOL.
Candace the verdict will be impacted by being in florida because thats where the trial is. i was just refering to casey anthony suprise. We never know how any jury will find..just hope and pray its the same as we think. 🙂
I just have this feeling that the jury is going to find him guilty of something if they are given the option of manslaughter they will probably take it. Unless evidence comes back that Treyvon was the aggressor because he was being followed by Zimmerman.
Another question.
She had someone transcribe the letter that she can’t read.
How does she know that they wrote what she said?
Also, cursive is recognizable letters connected by little lines connecting the letters. If she can’t read cursive, she is illiterate and did not know what was in the letter.
She does know what wet grass sounds like though 🙂
On most cells, who doesn’t have trouble understanding what is being said, from time to time? How the hell can she pick up “wet grass” during a life and death struggle between her boyfriend and a creepy white cracker? How would that be the top note one heard during that?!?
Pure BS
I am not watching the trial and swore that I would not blog because of comments like yours. However, in this case, I feel compelled to make an exception! WTH does Trayvon Martin have to do with Paula Deen? I love it! This country..these people.
Was Trayvon racist? Maybe…ok, probabaly? DId he have good reason to be? Possibly? Was he killed by a racist who hunted him down? Absolutely.
Trayvon and his racist words = anything Paula Deen said. An observation on two race related current events.
That’s what the two things have in common.
Any more questions?
A 17 year old kid (possibly a racist, to let you tell it, but still a kid) is dead at the hands of Neighborhood Watchman, who followed him (after he was told not do so) and gunned him down, and you want to compare that to a 60 year old millionaire who admittedly used racial slurs 20 years ago, and is accused of tolerating and protecting a racist and misogynistic CULTURE that existed within her companies. (Please excuse my run-on sentence, but I needed to make a point.) And that my dear, is the VERY REASON why so many “Blacks” are racist.
So racism is based on the wealth of the person making racist statements? or their age? What are the age and financial requirements to qualify as a racist?
What’s your point TT? I never said he wasn;t racist. I simply implied that it was not relevant to the case at hand.
What they don’t have in common is the punishment. Trayvon is dead, Paula is alive and well.
Don’t feed it, it will grow.
However, here’s another flaw in that theory. Paula Deen (and Bubba) said it to people that were dependent on them for their livelihood, where Trayvon (you remember him..the dead 17 year old) said it ABOUT a man that was following him on a dark rainy night.
I said, it before, I’ll say it again..I love this country!
The criminal Trayvon lost the biggest fight of his life.
He was fully thug, multiple arrests for different charges and decided to take a dorky looking guy he thought he could take.
Objection !!! Facts NOT in evidence !! Where the f__k are you getting this sh_t?
No really, I’d want to know ? First I’ve heard – where’s his multiple arrests ? Did he have an open record available as a juvenile ? Are YOU watching or listening to the trial now, as it unfolds ? Regardless if I like the outcome or not, I’ll have to accept it, could you ?
Candace, please tell me this is true. I haven’t heard a peep against TM, and here you are with what Nancy Grace would call a bombshell tonight! (gawd, she’s been heard to take this week, along with JVM).
Tell me more! Tell all of us who also may not have heard this as well. You’re my hero today.
Maybe the two of you can get matching t-shirts, or trade pictures of your cats. Maybe if you’re really good, she’ll send you a lock of her hair for your locket. GMAB
OK, this passed ridiculous several comments ago. I’m really out now..you win. Game over.
Sorry, “hard” to take. You got me so rattled!
Trayvon’s multiple arrests and suspensions (downplaying it, I think he was expelled)
Drugs and vandalism.
Easy to look up.
Thug life.
There is no criminal record for Mr. Martin, as reported on multiplerespectable sites such as the New York Times, Time Magazine, CBS,ABC and NBC. Was he as clean cut as he has been at times presented? No, he was suspended from school once for dope…not a criminal offense. So please, stop presenting material as FACT when it’s merely conjecture or your own opinion.
Okay, quit with the “gunned him down”. That suggest GZ was chasing after TM and shot from a distance multiple times. I’d like to hear the evidence about how the gun went off. Was it during a struggle on the ground? If so, how is that “gunning [someone] down”?
Purv. Didn’t you see the witness from Columbia. She said, when she looked out, GZ was on top of Trayvon, right after the shooting.
Okay, again, how is that evidence that GZ “gunned him down”? Ms. Taylor’s words not mine. It is evidence, however, of a struggle on the ground.
Game over. That’s true.
Trayvons criminal record says it all.
Suspended from school tor having a back pack full of womans jewlrey and burglery tools… http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
We went through all that and I finally quelled the hysteria, and now you bring it back. 🙂 (I know there are too many comments to sift through, but some of them are pretty interesting for a variety of reasons )
Since she still has ears – perhaps she was listening to someone who read it back to her and consented to it’s contents ! It happens all the time, especially with blind people who have to trust people represent their guardianship or legal needs. Should we check her teeth, maybe they hurt her testimony too. We all agree this girl has some issues by our normal standards, but…
The question stands.
If they read it back to her, if she’s illiterate, how does she know what they read to her?
As a retired teacher, will you please try to understand her illiteracy? It is as crippling as polio in many instances. Would any of us be non-readers by choice?
Peachteachr: I’m embarrassed to ask this question. Were certificates of graduation issued to students identified as SE. Could a person like Rachael in the GZ case receive a grad diploma.
There are requirements for a diploma, ie, courses you have to pass. You could be SPED and get a diploma or not be in a SPED program and get a certificate of completion. It’s based on meeting the requirements of a checklist. Plenty of SPED kids get a diploma and go on to college, they simply needed modifications for some sort of disability. Others may be unable to meet the requirements for a diploma and go the cert route.
Yeah. She’s crippled by being illiterate. It’s as bad as polio, which, btw, is eradicated. Maybe being 19 and unable to read will be, one day.
Each teacher that sent her to the next grade is to blame. She is to blame and her parents too.
Now she is in the spotlight and looking like a fool.
She gets to own her attitude that is making people disregard anything that comes out of her mouth.
I taught remedial high school reading in Florida. The teachers were always bitching about the middle school sending up kids that were not ready. The sad part is that it is the grades k-3 that lay the framework for reading. If you fall behind grade level in those grades you really should be held back. Being held back is a serious decision, sometimes it is very hard on teachers especially if the kid is doing the best they can with the IQ they have and their environment.
Kids eventually “age out” of elementary and middle schools because of their ….sexual maturation for lack of another term. You can’t have adolescents beginning puberty in with young children. In those case it is the PRINCIPAL and the school system regulations that keep them from being promoted. NCLB is just something I cant even discuss without it effecting my blood pressure.
I come from an entire family of teachers.
I was a remedial tutor in reading.
I know.
Many commenters were asking how she made it to the12th grade. And that she is stupid. I was just curious about the process.
Aged out.
Did you and TT work together. That’s really coincidental. 🙂
I don’t know her. I think we live 3000 miles apart.
Being illiterate is not as crippling as polio. My grandmother had polio and I bet if she had a choice between having polio or being illiterate she would have not chosen polio. If you are illiterate it is still a choice to be that way. Someone can at least learn to read maybe not well but it can be done and is done all the time. However having polio is not a choice and there is no cure. So to say that being illiterate is as crippling as any physical or mental disability out there is really not accurate at all.
No one chooses to be illiterate, to be that kid praying never to be called on to read outloud. To be labeled as unable to read cursive. Here lack of skills breaks my heart and makes me want to fly down and help her.
To be honest this dialogue is going better than I expected. I knew it was going to be a full on war in here from the beginning, which is why I initially decided against discussing it.
Thanks for trying to state your opinions as with the least amount of vitriol required. 🙂 We ought to be able to talk about racism and hear all sides of the conversation without everyone losing their cool.
Also don’t assume we are all on the same page, we are not. Some feel GZ is guilty, some feel he acted in self-defense and others of us are actually trying to listen to the facts of the case objectively before making a judgment.
Also for the JA holdovers, Sasha reminds me of Jan Corey. Act accordingly. 🙂
I followed the conversation on the JA trial here. Didn’t contribute, but saw that this site does good reporting and good comments.
I am following this trial and wanted to do that with Miss TT and her group.
Late to make a general introduction, but I am Candace and a fan of TT.
Thank you again TT. I’m always in your thoughts.
I would have said “Jan Brady” if asked for a comparison. 🙂
Well, Well, Purv. is back. And you brought your friends.
Let’s know hide anything TT. Do I have to find it myself or are you tough enough to tell me why? Do be afraid.
Incoherent statement. What are you saying?
I’m saying..I wasn’t talking to you.
You are still incoherent, no matter who you are talking to. Raise your game.
Nope, then I’ll be in your category. I think I’ll stay in my “deranged” lane.
Stay where you are comfy. 🙂
Hello Candace. Yes, my statement was incoherent. I was rolling on the floor laughing yesterday while you were getting slammed. I see you’ve quieted down a bit. That’s wonderful. You and your crew were a little out of control.
Crew?? Yawwnnnn {crickets}
Did you mean to say “do be afraid”?
That doesn’t sound good. Did you mean to say that?
You’re fueling again. Stay out of grow folks conversations. (Now that is an African American saying.) Add that to your list.
What list, hon?
Oi…don’t make me put a sock in your mouth
How will you that?
It’s not all about you, take a deep breath.
Wow you really got me rattled. Don’t hide anything. Don’t be afraid to tell me why I remind you of Ms. Corey.
I think Ms. Jeantel is jonesing for her couch, her snacks and her tv watching time.
With regard to the culture question, the prosecution on re-direct tried to put out to the jury that English was not RJ’s first language and that perhaps her cultural background was responsible for her use of racist vocabulary. On Reredirect, the defense tried to figure out what her culture is. I believe her mother is Haitian and speaks Haitian Creole and her father is from the Dominican Republic and speaks Spanish. RJ was born in Miami, so those are three distinct cultural backgrounds. The defense should have broken it down thusly, “So if it is part of your culture to use racist terms, does that come from the Haitian Culture, the Dominican culture or the Miami culture?” The way he asked the question I don’t thinks she knew what he was asking since she didn’t know the word ‘culture’.
To me, the answer would be pointless anyway, there is racism in every culture.
That is the truth.
I think it was just a simple case of people within a certain culture feeling free to use “offensive” terms amongst themselves. I think ALL people do it when speaking to members of their own circle, even if they clean up their language when they are in a mixed group. If Trayvon called GZ a cracker, it was to communicate to this woman the type of white person he felt GZ was. It doesn’t mean Trayvon was a racist any more than GZ calling Trayvon a punk or an asshole..or whatever he called him during his 911 call makes him a racist.
GZ carried his neighborhood watch duties too far and ended up killing an innocent kid-a kid who might have thought that GZ was the actual threat to the neighborhood. Maybe both were standing their ground-but the guy with the gun usually prevails. GZ made the decision to carry a gun, and should be punished for using it to kill someone in a situation that he created.
Miami Culture??? Does Miami have its own culture? I always thought it was heavily influenced by the large Cuban population there.
Thank you TT for explaining that culture thing (about RJ) It clears up (for me) as why she was speaking like she was (when you could hear her). Not her attitude maybe, but her speaking, using words in the wrong contex, says that maybe in her environment, she is used to hearing and/or speaking other languages.
That doesn’t fly with me as a teacher. From my experience with ESL students, they speak English WAAAAY better than Spanish when starting school in English. Often at the mid grades level they do not have enough bilingualness (not a word) to translate things their parents are saying to me.
The news that has been highlighted in the last week has allowed the issue of racism to light once again(Paula Deen,Trayvon Martin). Ms. Jeantel is not representing the African American race. We come in all shades of color, economic background, rural/city roots and family dynamics that shape the individual person. I say this because some AA speak well where some do not, as in any other race.
When I see generalizations made, I think that is where resentments build and rude comments are made. I deal with many different races ( not just one of each either), and don’t lump a whole ethnicity in a stereotype for a fews behavior. I wish we could do the same.
That’s what I mean by fueling the fire. You’ll never find me making doratory statements or making generalizations about any race, gender etc. No one on this site knows what “all” of any group will do.
Oh really? No inflammatory comments at all??
I think we can count the number of derogatory statements or generalizations about any race, gender, etc. that Sasha/Jan Brady has made on more than two hands.
Name one Purv.
I could list your comments in a big heap here but no one would want to suffer through them again. The biggest generalization of all: that someone is rascist, insensitive or ignorant if they crack a joke or have an opinion that differs from yours.
That’s what I thought. You couldn’t find one.
Yawwwnnnnn….{crickets}
Agreed. My original question was not meant to be interpreted as being racist against AA’s. I really want to know if anyone can explain the “general” inability to say the word “ask” without saying “axe”?
I do not hear many others do this, so why some and not others?
OMG!! Hilarious…I can’t wait to read the answers to this.
Nope, but, I can say ASS.
Oh grow up.
“I’m strictly a no-talent. I’ll never be good at anything. Never!”
Wait a minute Sandra. Was it a really adult question when you asked, “why black people don’t have the [general] inability to say the word “ask” without saying “axe”?
Why don’t you have the common sense to know this is not a can of worms you want to open. This is not the time to bring out all of your bigoted questions.
To answer your question about “ask”. I think it’s just how they’ve always heard it and so it’s ingrained in their minds that that’s how it’s pronounced. I live near Frederick. Its pronounced “fred rick”. Some of the local country people around here say “Fed rick”. My husband says “bat rees” I say “bat a rees” for the word batteries. My point being, I guess, it’s all part of culture and education that influences how we pronounce different words. It can be frustrating to listen to others pronunciations when it’s different from ours.
Now that’s the intelligent and well thought out answer I was waiting for when I first posed this question. Thank you Beverly.
Aww. Thanks. Glad I was helpful.
The issue with your question is in how it was posed, not that it is asked. Saying ‘the general’ (used in first post) and ‘by African Americans’ (used in second post) are very inclusive terms and suggest that you are referring to all African-Americans when you are in fact talking about those you’ve heard who do not properly pronounce the word. I understand you are not racist and are merely asking a question but your choice of words, and the fact that you are asking about a specific race (surely there are members of other races who mispronounce this word), paint you as stereotyping African-Americans. Hope this helps you understand why you are being responded to negatively.
@Sandra, I will have to agree with Brewhaha’s assessment. The generalizations with all AA’s is what gave me pause with your earlier question/post. Don’t get me wrong, I cringed listening to her speak as well, knowing that the majority of people I know do not speak that way. I thought we were speaking of this particular person, who just happens to be a black women. Then I come on here and now all African-Americans can’t pronounce “ask”. I personally just thought that was a huge stereotype.
Thanks Mini. It was a general question and not intended to lump everyone together. Probably more a reflection of the education system and over-worked teachers. (no, not blaming them!)
Sasha, Taylor, and all that qualify, of all the truly racist and derogatory comments made today, against anybody, look in the mirror, my dears.
Oh, so, now you’re trying to police others after stirring up this shit.
Now that’s an odd comment coming from the biggest shit disturber here.
Could it just be that they are using a slang word? Every language has slang even different parts of the US has its own form of slang words. I think up north instead of saying Cola they say pop. I know here in the south (Florida) my friends and I use coke or soda. I think it has more to do with using slang than anything else. 🙂
Sandra….where i live, there is a common dialogue. words like; “axs= ask……..scrait=straight…..spaded=spayed…shcrimp=shrimp….rockweilder=rotweiller….rhooad=road…..foisch=fish…………..” goes on and on………..some gullah, some geechee, mostly just local dialogue, but i gotta say, comes as not surprise to me that the court reporter and others had problems with dialect……….there are days that i cannot, for life of me , figure out what the hell someone is saying………..need interpreter……………
This witness is an architect and interior designer, from Columbia and an American citizen of 12 years. She has come to court speaking Spanish with a translator. Yet the Deputy DA asked her a question and she answered before the translator interpreted it for her. I don’t know why this strikes me as odd but it does. She is obviously quite intelligent, wouldn’t you learn English if you lived in a country for that period of time – she must have been here longer than the 12 years as you can’t immediately become a citizen? Should we require immigrants learn English? Is this racist?
Linda, A little off your subject. I didn’t learn that English was not Rachael’s first language until she was almost finished with her testimony. That being said, don’t you wonder why she wasn’t provided with an interpreter. I believe she speaks Spanish and another language other than English.
lol. um sorry. carry on.
My mother-in-law has been in the country since the early 1980s and still speaks very broken English. She spent most of her time in this country in Miami, where the majority of folks speak Spanish. I don’t believe people should be forced to learn English to become citizens (as English wasn’t necessarily the first or only language spoken in this country). I think it would serve them well and make life easier on them if they took ESL classes, but I don’t think that English fluency should be a requirement to immigrate or to become a US citizen. My father came to this country at 19 and didn’t speak a word of English. He became fluent as a matter of personal pride or accomplishment (and later became a chief of police — whose best friend was black! That’s an aside to Jan). But my maternal grandparents died before they ever became fluent in English. One thing that can be said about foreign languages: (1) some people are innately able to learn and retain the ability to speak more than one language (like my husband); and (2) my parents, soon married 60 years, saved the early years of their marriage by yelling at each other in a language the other didn’t understand. 🙂
Of course, when they started adding in certain hand gestures during their arguments, they kind of got it. 😉
I’ve been reading your comments for a few days and I’m really confused. Please tell me why you and other non-black people feel it necessary to brag – by saying “my best friend is black?” WTF does that mean. Does it earn you a pass of some sort. Maybe this Jan person you’re talking about can answer it.
You would have to read Jan Brady’s comments to understand. Bottom line: don’t assume people of a race other than black have not had significant and meaningful interracial relationships, as children, as adults, etc. it is not “bragging”. It is equivalent to “don’t judge me or label me when you don’t know anything about my life or upbringing”. I don’t NEED a pass.
Trayvon was arrested for two offenses, that are on record. Remember, he was a minor before this and those records are closed.
Caught with burglary tools and many pieces of women’s jewelry.Arrsted.
He was arrested for drug offenses and paraphernalia.
He was suspended or expelled when he died.
There are no arrest records, period…..and for the record, he was still a minor when he died. In the words or the immortal Joe Friday, Just the facts, Ma’am….
Lies.
The public records are there.
Too bad.
(((Sigh)))
Check with Tamara. Pull up the records so we can see them. I think you are full of shit.
Bing. Google.
Do your own search.
Are you too lazy?
Nope. That’s not how it works. You made the statement about Trayvon’s records, knowing you had nothing to back it up. That’s right. Do to him what Jodi and her attorneys did Travis Alexander, just beat Trayvon further in the ground…. WTF, he’s dead.
Don’t be lazy, hon.
Public records. Trayvon Martin.
It’s two clicks away.
So Miss Candace. Is that how it’s done now. If a kid steals, uses drugs and gets kicked out of school – you’ll call Georgie Z. to the rescue to shoot him in the heart.
Thug life.
Facebook page.
You have seen the records now.
Sheds a different light on our boy Trey.
So if he gets shot or knifed in a few years, and if the perpetrator was AA, would there be this much hoopla over the trial? Not racist, just asking’, ok?
Why don’t you tell us what you think, Sandra?
I know what I think.
It would be called justice.
It would be called pay back.
There wouldn’t be this media or interest, except for one day.
That’s how it would play out.
There would be rejoicing by black racists.
What I’m saying is, it would never hit the news. No national coverage, no blogs, no nothin’. Just another sad case of one person killing another on the back pages of the local weekly paper.
One day of news.
Exultation by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
No, sorry, big oops on my part. Should have gone like this: Let’s say if TM continued in some form of criminality, and gets done in by a brother, not GZ, would this case have garnered all the attention and all the racist rhetoric? I think not, just another sad case of one person killing another, another number on the court docket. Certainly no media coverage unless it was a really slow day at HLN.
Ditto for white on white murder, or the same race scenario of your choice.
If you want to know my personal view, it is this: there is only one race on this planet, the human race.
PS: But you’re probably not far off in your assessment if TM had killed GZ in self defense.
CHAs!!!Sandra and Candace. You’re both bat-shit crazy thinking you can say WTF you want about other races. BTW, I suppose all the weak f..ks on this sight let you get away with it. You think it’s cute? Stand by. Let’s see what shit can discuss about white people.
You’ve tried to pick a fight with every intelligent person on here and they’ve all backed down. I know you’re on here just to start shit. Game on bitches.
Stand by? Game on bitches?
smitsa, what are you saying?
She’s saying that your tone is coming across as aggressive. This case is only a few days old and not all of the facts have been presented- you seem to have already come to a conclusion regarding the guilt or innocence of both Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin and don’t appear to be discussing the merits of the case, merely imposing your opinion, rather forcefully, onto others. Slow your roll, you catch more flys with honey than vinegar.
Wait.
I think “Game on” is aggressive. Stand by? That means get ready to fight.
Imposing opinions means forcing it on someone. Not.
Slow your own roll, Missy.
As I said, aggressive.
You are so right.
She is very aggressive.
Glad we see it the same way.
ALRIGHTY THEN. Let’s all take some deep breaths and talk about the topic and not each other. If your true intentions are not to stir shit or cause a ruckus, but to have others understand your opinion, we all need to soften our approach. I know we are a rowdy bunch, but when the topic is this sensitive in nature, we have to use a different tone than we usually would when arguing about which housewife is a bigger bitch. Understood?
TT (and other trained educators/health care providers) – I do have a general question about Rachel Jeantel. Given that she has some issues – cognitive disability and/or low IQ – should anyone be asking if she has the ability to know right from wrong? I’m talking about doing the right thing even when you don’t want to. She has already perjured herself before the trial – could that and her struggles to comprehend indicate a real inability to report facts?
I really can’t speak to her cognitive abilities based on testimony. It’s a very pressure filled situation even when you are not on international news being judged. I would not dare to judge things from that alone. I do consider myself an expert in reading in particular and less so all forms of cognitive processing, but you would have to do some testing, particularly IQ to tease out what is limited cognition and what the result of having three languages spoken as a child. That said multilingual households generally result in smarter kids…not …um…less smart kids.
Whaat? You’re white – right. Aren’t you the smart one?
You’ve internalized what whites are like.
You have no idea what race I am.
smitsa, what are trying to say?
OK. Pick a race.
Marathon.
Are you backing down from your supreme race. Wouldn’t you rather be black. BTW, you don’t qualify. You already know how to say “Ask”.
What are trying and failing to say?
I think we’re o.k. Enough already with the cruelty. Trayvon is dead, leave him alone.
There is no cruelty. Only facts.
I guess you read his record and that is why you are saying that.
I understand.
Did anyone notice how hard TM’s father was laughing during RJ’s testimony. At least that’s what I think he was doing. It was at a point where she having a hard time being understood. He had his head down and he was just giggling so hard. Once again that’s what it looked like to me. His ex would look at him very irritated. They were sitting together yestèrday, but not today.
Was he laughing or crying? Not sure – I have been known to find humor in stressful situations and not be able to suppress the giggles. It did seem like he had his head down a lot; I thought he might be weeping. He did get the side-eye from Ms. Fulton tho.
He was definitely laughing. Like. I can’t believe this is our witness. And his ex was responsible for much of her getting in touch with the family attorney. She was even there for some of RJ depositions. Just saying. I think there was tension between parents yesterday.
Yes, saw that too. Other times, just sitting there sadly shaking his head like he couldn’t believe what he was hearing from Ms. Jeantel.
I thought he was going to have to leave the court room. He couldn’t control his laughter. His ex wife looked like she was so annoyed with him. I guess that’s why they’re not sitting together today.
MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUND.
CREEPY ASSCRACKER – I think this is why she said (with a little smile) that it wasn’t racist. It wasn’t racist it was a homophobic slur,
I always thought the term “asscracker” referred to what he thought might be a gay man following him rather referring to a white guy.
Is it possible that the term “creepy ass-cracker” (note my placement of the hyphen) is why she said “pervert” when she said it wasn’t a racist remark? Not sure if I can explain what I mean, Asscracker ,meaning pervert and ‘creepy’ is creepy – nothing racist at all. Anyone here familiar with the book “Eats, Shoots and Leaves”? We understand things through our own filters and in the case of the book title above, it’s about language skills. If she’s not the most articulate person in the world and she’s anxious about being in court on the stand as most people would be…well misunderstandings. I’ve had a few times when I know what I’m saying, but people interpret it as something else. It sometimes takes a LOT of discussion and trying to rephrase things to finally meet at an understanding.
Plus, I never saw why GZ was referred to as ‘white’.
It’s Creepyass cracker. Would you think Creepyass nigger was not racist? Cracker is the white slur that matches nigger. Only one can be said on network tv and the other causes Jesse Jackson to charge up his pope mobile.
Well said, TT.
JUST A FEW POINTS OF ORDER, PLEASE READ!!!!
Candace, I want you to be able to make your points. However, I feel like the points that you wish to make are getting lost because your comments come off as hostile. Try to assume that HERE, IN THIS PLACE, we are in a less hostile environment. That people on the other side are willing to listen. When one person, Ms Taylor or something similar if I remember correctly says things that seem offensive to you, consider that she may not know any better. It is often hard for people with different cultural backgrounds to accept the other person’s culture. Let’s say Saudi Arabian culture v. American culture. Most Americans would say theirs is best and most Saudis would disagree. Let’s try to look for middle ground. Most of the commenters here are way nicer people than I am. Give them a chance.
Also let’s not have black posters screamy about “WHITE PEOPLE” when they ask questions they sincerely want answers to. It may be offensive, but we could all learn if we answer politely or ignore the offensive question entirely.
Same story for white people, let’s not make generalizations about “black people” being one way or another. Things were going along well but now, we are not listening anymore. TRY TO HEAR THE OPPOSING VIEW.
FInally, I have not researched this case like I did Casey Anthony because I didn’t start paying attn. to either one until they came on TV. I am now starting my research. Meanwhile, PLEASE TRY TO LIMIT YOU CONVERSATIONS TO THE TRIAL. THAT IS THINGS OFFERED AS EVIDENCE and not something “you heard.”
For example, Candace has made MANY MANY posts today about Trayvons “criminal record.” My best understanding is that he does not have one, but that he has run amok of the law on a few occasions and was suspected of burglary but never charged. The Miami Dade School System is so packed with little criminals that THEY HAVE THEIR OWN POLICE FORCE like a major college would. Schools have to report student arrests to the government so they do anything they can NOT to arrest students up to and including starting their own law enforcement to deal with juvenile delinquency in house. SOURCE MIAMI HERALD: TRAYVON CRIMINAL HISTORY. See link: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
This is an example of a path we do not really need to go down. His prior criminal history or lack there of has no bearing on the case. It reeks of “blaming the victim” in my opinion. While mentioning your opinion that Travyon is “a thug” is fine ONCE repeatedly making similar comments is shit stirring.
Let’s try not to drag in all the hype and look at ONLY WHAT IS PRESENTED TO THE JURY AND WHAT THE LAWS OF FLORIDA STATE.
We can use this case as an opportunity to understand the opinions of our fellow man, or we can just all throw poo at each other. I am not going to babysit grown women/men. Examine what you want to portray here and knock yourself out. I hope you choose to show your best selves.
Brava!
Hallelujah and thank you!!
I hear you, Miss TT, Point taken 🙂
TT, not sure what you mean by not knowing any better. Funny. Perhaps, the number of commenters have you confusing me for someone else. I initally kept my comments about Trayvon and GZ. Not sure how I would have offended Candace..but whatever. You’re blog..your right.
MS T…right on!!! Her blog, she’s right:-)
It can be agreed on that Ms. Jenteal is not Harvard bound, and forgive me if someone else has already said this, but maybe there is something undisgnosed early in Rachel’s life that has resulted in her poor performance at school. Without extra help from teachers or specialists, or parents unable to, or not knowing how to navigate the school and government agencies, she was left to flounder.
I’d lay odds that she has a diagnosis.
Of course I know the term cracker is a derogatory term to whites and of course it’s offensive no matter what term for whichever race would be added after “creepy ass ______” would be racist as well. It just never crossed my mind that it’s what he meant. It was dark, rainy?, GZ doesn’t look like a white guy, he looked then, and still looks Hispanic to me. I didn’t hear TM say it (if he said it), couldn’t hear the vocal inflection or timing, I didn’t know him so I don’t know if that’s how he talked, I haven’t heard a recording and I couldn’t know if using racist comments was part of character . This is exactly what I mean by misunderstandings.
Thanks for responding. Here in the south we say crazyass as an adjective a lot. I don’t consider FL to be a southern state south of the panhandle. I could obviously be reading into it in the eats shoots and leave way. 🙂
Still I think the subtle smile and her own admission of using the term cracker in her social circles shows she knows full well what he meant. If he indeed said that. I am not sure that is not HER WORDS. I have no way of knowing.
Still doesn’t excuse her attitude.
Until I read what TT had to say, it had not occurred to me that Rachel J might suffer from developmental difficulties. I’ve only been listening to this on the radio and had not seen RJ until just now.
I think what you see, and what I heard, as “attitude” might, in part, be frustration about not being able to make people understand what seems so clear to her.
Then you didn’t see her yesterday. Not so much being frustrated at not being understood, but petulance, an air of boredom, and at times, arrogance. The rolling of the eyes, the huffing and puffing, the unsolicited comments.
As a teacher of kids at every age level and college freshman and sophmores, I can assure you that those behaviors are consistent with someone feeling alone, unsupported, attacked, fearful and most importantly embarrassed. She lacks coping skills. She has had an upbringing from parents who come from two different countries. She seems to be genetically ……. from a shallow gene pool. She has many unlucky cards dealt to her. Within her own race she will be discriminated against for being too dark. She has a lot to deal with and now she is going to be on live feeds beamed all over the world where she admits that she can’t read or write “cursive” and that her text reading level is very subpar and she is a 19 year old HS senior? That seems unfair to her.
That said, if I were a juror I would not consider any of her testimony credible.
Sandra, I did not see her yesterday. There are no pictures on the radio.
I guess that RJ is not the only one with reading comprehension issues.
When you said that you hadn’t seen her until “just now”, I agreed with you that, no, you didn’t see her yesterday because you were listening to the radio. I agreed that you hadn’t seen her. For your reading comprehension, perhaps I should have been more clear and said “If you had seen her yesterday…”.
No pictures on the radio? Really?? Why didn’t someone tell me years ago?!
Exactly. She is not emotionally or intellectually prepared to be testifying on world wide TV in a murder trial. It does not seem that any of her family is there with her. Her first question to the judge was can I use the phone. To call her mother? Perhaps they pay for her transport from Miami but not a companion as she is an “adult” at 19 despite some clear development delays? My heart breaks for her.
TT, I’ve just read a great article regarding Rachel and the essence of our discussions yesterday pertaining to her testimony. Are we allowed to place Links here?
Only if I like the link. 🙂 Yeah post it. It will go to moderation and I will make an executive decision. 🙂
It’s an interesting read from a sociological perspective.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/06/28/rachel_jeantel_witness_in_george_zimmerman_trial_gets_the_trayvon_martin.html
Hell, I have dealt with enough opposing counsel to tell you that literacy or education level had nothing to do with one’s level of snark. It has more to do with one’s ability to be witty and the need to have one’s intelligence level validated by others.
Hey wait a minute… White folks seem to be ok to the family of TM, just look at all those white lawyers at the prosecution table. Where’s the token AA lawyer? 🙂
Sandra, let’s refrain from making generalizations about white folks and black folks. This is a self defense case. The essential question, to use a teacher term, is rather GZ acted in self defense and did not go beyond the LEGAL restrictions on self defense.
Just making an observation, sorry. In an earlier response I said that there is only one race on this planet, the human race.
I stayed away from info on this trial deliberately so that I could hear the evidence from both sides, just as the jury would (or as close as possible). I swore I wouldn’t get interested in watching this, but got sucked in anyway, so here I am, again. I am still on the fence, not leaning too far one way or the other, for now.
Even though I was hoping for the death penalty for Jodi Arias, and still do, I am just wondering if natural life/no parole will ensure that she stays punished. How many times have other death penalty convictions been overturned, for whatever reason, and a murderer has walked out of prison after a string of appeals? Anyway, another blog for another day. Have you heard anything new?
Um, good morning? The narcoleptic has arisen. It seems y’all have been behaving yourselves, sort of. 🙂 thanks.
I don’t think Rachel has a low IQ but is a product of the failure of our school systems which let these kids fall through the cracks. I know of kids like her that graduated from decent HS. Always thought it bizarre that it wasn’t until he graduated from college that my son had to pass a language competency exam in order to receive a degree. I think it is great but these kids need to show competency in middle and high school
Just watch Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking” segment and see the product of our educational system. And kids today text and tweet with abbreviated words and thoughts. It is pathetic for sure but not always a reflection of intelligence.
She’s very clearly functionally illiterate. I can assess that from her testimony.
Is there court tomorrow?
Yes, florida juries may suck but the judges move things alone.
JeSuS H. Christ! It was just a month ago we were in heated discussions regarding Jodi Arias’s gaping rectum and stalking via the doggy door… I don’t know that I even need to watch this trial! When I get home I am going to grab the popcorn and Pinot and just sign in to TT’s site… Kudo’s to TT and the commenters! You all are like crack… I MUST have my daily fix!! 😉
I so agree. I am not commenting on the trial for personal reasons but I come daily to see how my friends are doing. What do they call that freestyle of fighting where any blow is legal? Well, that’s the kind of commenting I read yesterday. Still. I come for my daily fix. 🙂
It has been interesting to say the least. Hopefully, TT is also paid based on the number of comments LBS
As reluctant as I am to post… I pray everyone leaves RJ alone now. She is probably glad to be home in her end of the world – while the rest of us tear at what threads are left of her hem. I remember who’s on trial here. RJ didn’t commit the crime. I think what she did was brave & huge and probably bigger than some folks, regardless. – It’s takes a lot of balls to get up on the stand willingly, feel forced by obligation, or be frightend by subpoena. I believe the concensus here was she clearly did not want to be there. So, If the fates will have it – shall we proceed with the same discerning ears & eyes when Mr. Z takes the stand ?? (yea, I know…he doesn’t have to…) I am waiting with bated breath & I can hear the snarling of wolf packs in the distance, licking their chops… for an equally good food fight !
I hope GZ doesn’t take the stand. No matter my personal bias regarding this trial I just cannot stand to look at him.
Finally said. I have a great gal in Arizona he may want to pen-pal should he get convicted. She’s a real gem and loves that “Body Slam” stuff !! The problems is she’s gotta’ thing multiple weaponery. I heard she’s A-lot O’Women to handle !
I have listened to most of Rachel’s testimony from yesterday. I think she held her own and did a lot better than on Wednesday but her ‘yes sir’ every few seconds got on my nerves though it was better than her mumbling. I wonder if she mumbles the most when she is confused or upset? I’m glad her testimony is done but I’m sure not more than she is! Her testimony reminded me of a tennis match, first helping the prosecution, then helping the defense, back and forth. In the end though I think she might have helped the prosecution IF the jury thinks she was credible.
Rose, FWIW, we in the South have a tendancy to say “Yes mam, yes sir”….it is an expression of respect (difference of opinion notwithstanding)
These lawyers are certainly kind and respectful of each other. I like that, though I did enjoy JM’s pit bull style. I think if Martinez was questioning Rachel, he might have pulled his hair out by the handful. I do think West kept going over and over and over the same things, repeating her answer as he set up the next question. I think that was necessary Wedneday when she mumbled so much and barely a word was understandable but I can’t help but wonder if he did it yesterday to confuse her.
God Rose, I wonder how he would have crossed her. She was after all a prosecution witness so that would have put her up on the stand for him. As a rule I think any attorney worth their professional salt would or should know better to intimidate a witness (…and I’ll eat my strategy hat, here) just perhaps for things the person can not help or is not revelant to their testimony. (…who would be low enough to operate like that ?) Ha ! But if the tables were turned… we would have been there for weeks longer than Jodi was !! 🙂
What did I sleep through this morning? I am waiting for someone to testify about the range involved in the gunshot. Was it very close range? Was the gun directly on his chest?
Honestly I caught the tail end of discussions on HLN pundits between commercials & court break about powder stippling and residue. There were court conversations on record outside of the juror’s presence, too. Sorry no details, though. ~ It was hard to concentrate on just TV w/o TT. Had to get on with business of the day.
Did you see the neighbor who witnessed the fight? What he saw was Trayvon on top of GZ and he thought the person calling for help was GZ or the person on the bottom. Talking heads on TV think he was a very good witness for the defense even though he was a prosecution witness.
Nancy Grace will go ballistic if GZ isn’t convicted according to her evidence and spin. Actually, it will be quite funny to watch in any event. I’m just not sure my TV won’t explode from her yelling at everybody. How does she stay on the air, anyway? She has been completely unwatchable all week, even with the mute on.
Omg. My husband and I were discussing NG just a few minutes ago. She is unwatchable at times. We both have our own TV and we both turned her off this week. She is spooked rude to her guests.
Oops I meant sooo rude.
I like spoked rude better! It sounds more like her.
Grrr, spooked rude. Damn keyboard!
I’m sure she has spooked more than a few of them too, Beverly! lol
Probably right off-the-cuff the first time. Careful ! 🙂 The Spelling Bully is lurking !
Teeheee! I liked that one JustForAll… Spot on! 😉
For the love of all that’s HOLY… Nancy Grace threatens to cut off any guest’s mic when they present an argument she either can’t counter intelligently or doesn’t like their perspective. I am going to have to buy stock in Carmex soon… She is soooo chapping my ass!!! :/
I’ve never heard of Carmex………is it anything like Anti Monkey Butt?
It is medicated chapstick…. Hell, that would burn!!! The agony would take my mind off NG’s repeated references to her murdered fiancee (Hey Nancy, it isn’t all about YOU!), the TWINS, or her southern phrases (usually worded incorrectly). I think she rambles incessantly just so she can hear her own voice. Guuuuh!
“Goodnight friend”…….
I would be pissed about that…. If I wasn’t laughing so freakin hard! Touche!!! 😉
Bobbi – My butt paste by mail order is in the hopper on the way*… !!! Never heard of “Anti Monkey Butt — paste !” Lol ! ~ Sammiejane, how big a tin of Carmex is out there ? 🙂 Ha ! Otherwise it would take so-ooo long to apply, by that time NG’s show would be back on @ 11:00. Errrr !
“BOMBSHELL TONITE!” Anti Monkey Butt also comes in a soothing powder and a special “feminine” version for ladies!…………I may be the one and only Nancy Grace supporter left on this site. (call me crazy) ~ However, my loyalty has been severely tested over the past few months. Maybe it is time for a change ~ I hear Beth Karas is available!
Please try to get your email connections worked out so that topics like these can be discussed there. Thanks!
It’s so refreshing to watch trial coverage on CNN as opposed to HLN with their incessant pausing for commercial breaks and promises that were “not gonna miss a moment of coverage”.
Wait what? Has it been on CNN all day? WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US EARLIER? Never leave a man behind, Two P!
Hey TT, I missed your reply. CNN has been showing full coverage of the trial with minimal commercial interruption. They started when Rachel first began testifying, and continued through Friday, even after she was excused and other witnesses were called. I thought they were just going to show her coverage because she’s such and important witness, but I was wrong. Not sure what that means for next week, but their coverage has been complete and has lasted the entire day. MUCH better than HLN. 🙂
If I never see a surgical mesh or mesothelioma or reverse mortgage commercial again it’ll be too soon. And hey Debbie Boone, as you warble “You Light Up My Life”, check out the trial of the son of the guy who wrote that ditty for you. He murdered hi girlfriend in a bathtub. Put that in your Lifestyle Lift and smoke it.
What happened to Crump, the family atty for the Martins? Every channel I watch has a different person on as “the family atty for the Martins. How many do they need.
Also did you see all the private security for Zimmerman in court today? I guess they have to be there to get him in and out and walk with him everywhere. It is starting to look highly likely that the prosecution is unable to prove their case. What will GZ do then? Where will he live?
I have been trying to keep up with the trial… So far the State’s evidence and the witnesses seem to have proven only that they have overcharged George Zimmerman. But it’s a long way from over. We’ll see what happens.
kh
WAKE UP!!!!?????
Hey guys, i never thought i would add to the reality check in this blog, and possibly, TT might edit/drop this comment, but i feel a need to share a bit……………open for discussion…..when i first about this case, i was soooooooooooooooooo pissed at GZ; i thought “vigilante” at the same time, i live in the South and i am SICK TO MY ASS of apologizing for what ‘my race” did years ago. Commonly, i get digs from my mixed race community about what someone is “owed”, what someone ‘deserves”. I am cut off in lines, i am disrespected, i deal with clients who, for some unknown reason to me, that someone thinks they don’t think they need to pay their veterinary bills for some reasons that are still unknown to me….
two forms of entitlements i deal witih on a daily basis…………..
BTW, I am 50% Mexican, but have NEVER used this for any handouts I work my ass off and am happy to do so……………
So, here is my up front and honest evaluation of what i have seen in the GZ/TM case: ‘GZ had something up his ass about blacks……..of course, in their hood, blacks had been theives of late. As well, if Rachel is clear, there is definately some TM bigotry going on……………….for those of you not in the South, CRACKER is to WHITE, as NIGGER is to black. Clearly, TM did some physical damage to GZ…..and i regret that GZ did not shoot somewhere else on TM…….”
NOW…………………i am SICK of racial clustering against GZ!!!! SICK (i see this every day………….justify why i can cut you out in line/why YOU owe me/why i deserve to not pay when others do/why the gov ought to give me money)
Major networks are TERRIFIED of saying, perhaps, that TM might have partaken in a physical altercation………….they cannot argue against TM for the sake of youth and, God-forgive , he and his ancestors who we all enslaved and will eternally be indebted to….point is, WHO IS REALLY RACIST????? What happened to being honest. I hate that GZ put a bullet in such a fatal place, but this PC bullshit infutiates me……………OK…TT…..i put it out there….los siento!
Docwall
Psst I like you, Doc! It’s Banjo that wants to rip your face off. Everyone here is entitled to speak their minds on this subject. I think it is important for every to get their feelings out.
Girl, I am telling you two things! 1) Banjo would LOVE me, despite what you say; 2) I actually tried to send you either food or flowers on your vaction but did not trust the reliability of their promises to deliver: Hope you had a blast! (“talking ’bout bad girls”)
I wish you would have mailed me a PB&J on white. Or a banana. lol. Food was too expensive and cut into the scandoulously overpriced beer budget. 🙂 But that was a sweet thought!
Docwall I agree and am sick to death of the PC crap too. It’s just too much in the country at this point. My grandparents were born in Italy, so my entire family was someplace else when this country had slaves. No one gave my ignorant, illiterate, italian speaking grandfather a break on anything when he came here, and he didn’t expect it. He worked his ass off, and so did his children, opening a business they could make money with. No one in my family ever took assistance, not because they didn’t need it, but because they knew there were others who needed it more. They used the gov’t as a last resort, and knew not to burden the system if there was anyway they could make a living on their own. I don’t see that today, anywhere. I see people who try their damndest to get on the gov’t dole, and stay on it. I see a gov’t that thinks they must provide EVERYTHING to their citizens, so that their eyes, ears and fingers are in every crack of my life. The gov’t has enough trouble doing the things we NEED them to do. WHY would I want them to do more??
There is a permanent underclass in this country who are under educated and are not allowed opportunities others are granted because of the color of their skin. You and your family may not have been around when slavery was allowed in this country and you may not have helped to craft the Jim Crow legislation that forcibly kept black people down until the 1960′ but admit it or not there are things you and your family have benefited from just by being white and not being subjected to the very real effects of racism. I am not excusing lazy s.o.b’s and those at the shallow end of the gene pool but racism is real and it’s effects are still kicking some black people’s asses. With all that having been typed I see way too many people who are white think they are above it all when they have some of the most mediocre tepid DNA that has been allowed to breed.
How about we not shout out stereotypes about any group. It is just not cool. It is not P.C. it is manners.
I don’t agree with you. I never mentioned race, but being from southern italy and working outside, my grandfather and his children were a lot darker than a lot of black people in this country. They were not any more welcome in most places than the black people they worked beside who had been here for 200 years.
I didn’t should out any stereotypes, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I don’t think I am above it all and think I try my hardest to see and treat everyone equally.
Well shame on me for misunderstanding your families plight and you not wanting to be P.C. Shame on me sweetie for hearing your implied message. Shame, shame shame.
little wicked chick, i am gonna begin my response with a bit of spirituality that is a part of how i am, who i am, how i feel and think about life. my prayers are 1)” God help me to accept your path and plans for me and have no investment in a particular outcome for any situation in my life.” 2) “Help me to remember that everything in life is either LOVE or a CALL FOR LOVE—and so may i respond only with love”;
Having said this, you have no Fucking idea about me, or anyone else here……you perhaps don’t know what it is to be a single parent who is a solo business owner that LOVES her work and clients but must deal with everyone’s financial problems and yet do best for their loved ones. Perhaps, just maybe you don’t have a suicidal child and wake up every morning praying that she didn’t decide to kill herself last night. Maybe you don’t deal with alzheimer parents and how the hell to best help without thinking you have some right to revoke their choices. I had NOT A FUCKING THING to do with slavery or Jim Crow. I was lucky that i had parents who cared about education………….same ones cared not a shit about saying I LOVE YOU or hugging and holding me close or thinking about me as a person who had feelings and need and dreams. I am just like everyone else. My breaks in life began when i decided to make my future. I decided to do the work. And i did the work. I still do the work, now for my child who does not necessarily care about life at all. How dare you decide who has or had or will have “breaks”? I made my breaks,,,,,,,,,,,and still now, it has not a FUCK to do with my race or creed or family………….it is all about my head, my relationship with God, and my motivation. NONE of that is about “breaks” or “tough beginnings”, it is about my choice to makeit better. I am hispanic, so what? I am first MOM, second, American……………..all else is waste of breath. Yeah, some get better breaks than others, but people (seemingly like you) who have the guts to shame me for being OK financially are misdirected………….for it is first and foremost about soul and God relationship, and secondly. for me, how far you will go your distance, despite obsticles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ME, got it, but have to regroup 3X daily: !) ???is she alive this am??? 2) What is the plan today, God? and 3) God, help me to accept your Will today!!!
you have no right to diss whites ( 50% Mexican) for doing OK………lots under the surface
Oh Doc, I am so sorry you are going through all of this. Sometimes when we kill ourselves to excel and succeed, there is a twist in the third act. xoxo
Oh dear Lord wicked girl, do you not see or read the quality of the person you are responding to? There is no “implied” message — it is in your head, in Jan Brady’s head. It is indoctrinated in you to distrust and disbelieve the most honorable and sincere people out there. The only one who should feel ashamed is you.
Thanks TT…..it is what it is, and thank God for God!!! no pity here, just a continual problem-solving with much love attidtude………..it is OK (well, ya know, not about me….so i LOVESTRONG) but thanx……………you recall my point was not about self pity but about how we all have shit and it is not about race, but about how we choose to deal with this hand of cards. (LOVE) ii would agree about the success argument, except that i never cared about or wanted to own my own practice. just had to! xxooxo
I admire your tenacity, drive, faith, perseverance, sanity, motherhood, intellect, and many other things.
I will however reserve the right to argue with you like a banshee on topics we disagree on. 🙂
Also Banjo was very stressed and …depressed? on arrival home. I think my couch taterness is rubbing off on him. Do you live in the SE?
I just love it when people get so riled up they forget what we are talking about and throw in their overtaxed life as a justification for a crappy attitude towards real issues that have to do with race. Apples and oranges chile, apples and oranges. You don’t know what I have to deal with in my life either because on this site I am just some multicultural wicked little thing behind a computer screen.Should we all compare our pain and suffering and then chat about our spiritual awareness? We all have hurdles to overcome and most of them are not fair. I feel sorry for your pain just as I feel sorry for everyone who has to deal with horrible life situations BUT because one person suffers that does not invalidate the suffering of another person. This is not a game of who has it worse because everyone sometime or another and has had things that have happened to them and to their people that suck. I am saying this is what is happening to many many black people today. I honestly am not being glib about your struggles honey but just as I don’t know you you don’t know my troubles either.
We all have hurdles to overcome and most of them are not fair.
THIS RIGHT HERE! THIS IS WHAT I WANT ALL OF US TO CONSIDER WHEN POSTING ABOUT THIS TRIAL THANK YOU!
And I thought Doc’s sharing was very brave and not seeking sympathy. She is trying to share her perspective just like you, babe.
Let’s try to understand everyone’s suffering and not give more weight to one than another.
I agree that there is white privilege out there. But most white people don’t even know it is happening. It’s unfair to them to expect them to know any more than that is how their life is. They did nothing to deserve it and they also did nothing to deserve racism… make sense?
Okay fine. Then don’t be glib with the “shame on me” BS and the “honey” crap. Then maybe whatever your “message” is will get more play.
TT, i live in the lowcountry (coastal SC), in a small community where we all (mostly) really love each other and get along. thanks for words of support but i am OK……and i do not spend my time in a pity-party. I spent my time being grateful for so many things. (like family, friends, 5 dogs, 5 cats, the sky, live oaks, dukes -LOL). And that was actually my point. Sorry if it was TMI, i am just sick of the “it’s not fair” dialogue that is so common these days. And, we can’t do anything about the past but try to learn from it and move on. Wicked, i am sorry that you are having to deal with such demons that are haunting from the past and perceived to be so strong today. For most of us, people are just people. And DNA is irrelevant. I was not attempting to play a game of “who has it worse”…..because that is not how i perceive life. I feel it is ALL about perception. And i perceive all people as just people. And “sad” or “wrong” or “unfair” situations do not have to be perceived like that at all……..they are just “situations”. The best way to get rid of racism is to do what the majority of us do………..which is to have none. To raise our children to have none. Government is not the answer, nor is litigation or big polical groups who seek out examples to try to prove a point, thereby making some issues out of non-issues. This is what keeps the ball of racism rolling. It is horrible that slavery ever happened, but it did and is now in the past. This is not the world we live in now. Time to move on. Now, we do what we choose to help others who need it. Attack benefits no one. Tryng to keep alive the notion of a “stifled race” helps to keep that race down. And angers the majority of us who are not racist, when the context of accusations are that somehow, it is our fault. Guilt is about as worthless as self-pity. God Bless (GGGGGG)
Please expect me and Banjo on your doorstep soon. I love the low country. I used to teach college in SC. We all caught a terrible flu. One of the boys drove home to his Gullah grandma then came to my house with a 7-11 type cup with some dark liquid in it and told me to drink it. I did. I was better within a couple hours. I miss low country boils and Spanish moss…
TT, you are always welcome here! Got pool, close to Kiawah and other beaches…close to downtown. I would offer a bedroom, too, but with 10 pets it is rather like a kennel at times so let ,me offer this i could likely get you a spot at Church Street Inn on Market St., if we were flexible so i could plan ahead. (my guy and i have vacation club thing with them and lots of points that neither of us can afford to use right now cuz we need to be working). And i do mean this, btw. Great scenery, the BEST food and, you know the rest. You have my addy, if interested, door always open to you! Banjo can stay at my clinic if you want to bring him along…………give me a chance to make a believer out of you re: “he can’t be that mean all the time.” (aka i have lots of happy drugs we could try for him LOL)
I could eat my weight in She Crab Soup. And I weight a ton. 🙂 That is pretty much all I eat there. I like to stay on IOP. I think it is called the Seaside Inn or something it is right next to that bar whose name escapes me even though I practically lived there in my 20s. Charleston is my favorite city in the world. Even over Paris. Okay maybe those two are tied. lol.
I would LOVE to bring Banjo to see you and see if you can help me resocialize him with other dogs. He was practically meek until he got his mysterious illness that no one knows what is. (It made his back legs stop working among other things. Been to specialist, blah blah blah.
However, I was stranded at the resort with very expensive food and drink and no place else to go…and way overspent on this trip so I am going to be living on a shoestring budget for awhile. No trip money left for now. Don’t move before I get my finances in order!
that is likely the Windjammer..?? no worries, i am going nowhere for a long time……..lots of work to do b4 retire………and then, dunno. i am considering leaving country in retirement, but that is decades away…
Yes! The WindJammer. I met the great love of my life at Wind of Change but that is not there anymore. I can’t remember if Hugo got it or if it was gone before then.
ha! Is that sarcasm as you say you’re sorry for not understanding my families “plight” Iwickedgirl? Lucky for you, the use of sarcasm in a race discussion isn’t seen as you feeling somehow entitled to belittle what other people think. Maybe instead of trying to form your argument while others tell you how they feel, you should listen. And for the record, I do not believe my family HAD a plight!
Why do some blacks feel that the only side of a discussion on race that should hold weight is theirs? I have seen even Oprah Winfrey do this, and it so disappoints me. We will never get along if we can’t TALK honestly, and also LISTEN!
oh yes, and please tell me what my implied message was. I would like to hear it Iwickedgirl
Docwall, nemaste. When I was just 19 my daddy killed himself. Almost 3 years ago my only sibling did the same. My children are adults now, but my son was determined to blow the gates of hell wide open. So many days and nights all I could do for him was to ask God to surround him with angels and keep him safe. I always prayed Proverbs 26:9, “Rear a child up in the way you would have him go, and when he is old he will not depart.” Sometimes I would be yelling at God and other times begging. It doesn’t say your child will never wander in the desert. Would you believe that my son is now a youth minister? I believe in miracles. BTW, I’m impressed with your love and your ability to share your compassion with others. Be well.
Peach, from your loving fingertips to my heart…………thank you for that boost. I shall read proverbs and remember your words! Peace Friend
HELL NO, it would be Dukes, bread, barBque, mustard n bologna !!!!
Um how fast can you get that here? 🙂 I loves me some Dukes. Getting ready to go back on the all organic everything diet. But I can’t give up the Dukes. One of my favorite snacks is Dukes on a saltine with a thin slice of onion. I break my diet for that every time. Not beer, not cocolas, not red velvet cupcakes… Premium saltine, schmear of Dukes, thin slice of Vidalia. #youcantakethegirloutoftheghetto…
Your use of the word cocolas, Coke for those of you not reared in the south, is a tell! But, so is mayo on saltines. Love it.
Docwall, like a hot knife through butter, best I’ve heard so far.
Glad the Prosecution called the witnesses to say TM was wrestling on top of GZ…preempting the Defense from calling him. Prosecution is required to tell the truth. The fact a physical confrontation took place does not mitigate the fact that GZ profiled TM because of his race, and his hoody and because he ran – got out of his truck to follow him, against instruction by 911 operator. GZ had a loaded gun, TM did not. The kid was almost home. He was protecting himself from someone who was following him in the dark. If he had known GZ had a loaded gun in a concealed holster he may have continued running to the safety of his residence. The only self defence GZ can claim was caused by himself – his actions. How could he be afraid for his life when he knew he had a loaded gun? Btw the “wounds” on his head are minor – required no stitches. Surface head wounds bleed profusely, as any mother of young children knows. There’s no doubt TM punched him in the nose. So what? He was protecting himself from an unknown assailant who looked suspicious to him and who was following him. It’s unfortunate the young woman talking to TM at the time of the incident was so inarticulate. You must consider the Prosecution can’t pick and choose “good” witnesses. It is what it is. You have to consider the culture she and TM lived in – the vernacular and speech patterns they use in their daily lives. We shouldn’t judge her until we’ve walked in her shoes. My gut feeling is that GZ will be found not guilty. The defence won’t have to call him to the stand. The cross examination of prosecution witnesses has already established a witness felt GZ was “defending himself”. A very interesting case, indeed!
I agree Babsdeaner, I have asinking feeling GZ will “walk” on this case. But I hope not.
I don’t believe in justice but I do believe Zimmerman will get what is coming to him. He is now a pariah to many many people. Good luck to him finding a decent job or living in peace. The world knows his face and his name.
wow. Now THAT is vigilantism. Isn’t that what you accuse GZ of doing? The prosecution has not case so you hope he lives a miserable life and can’t work and someone hunts him down and kills him? Talk about over involved in a trial…not to mention how race riots begin.
Did I say any of those things? I don’t wish anything on him because I don’t know him. I don’t know if he is as pure as the driven snow or he is a nut job. I just see even if he is found innocent his life seems to be ruined. BTW we all get what is coming to us, good or bad.
No we don’t. #respectfullydisagree #cancer #rape #murder #abuse
Then wicked girl will hopefully see her own world view validated someday. What a whack job,
Ou contraire my friend. Wicked is not a whackjob. She has posted here for quite some time. She has opinions and has the right to be heard.
You’re right. I just respectfully disagree with her myopic views.
can I just ask-do you think GZ was racially profiling? To me, that ,means he followed Trayvon because he was black, period. I think the reason GZ followed Trayvon is because the neighborhood had had break ins committed by young black men. Is that the same thing? I mean, it’s not like GZ said, hey, there’s a black kid, he must be up to no good. I do think he genuinely thought Trayvon was one of the previous B&E’ers, and that’s why he followed him. If he had done what the police told him to, the whole misunderstanding could have been cleared up. I think that Trayvon’s parents said on Friday that they don’t want race to enter into it because they don’t see it as a “race case.” They think (IF I understand them correctly) that GZ could have just as easily killed a white boy he didn’t recognize, and they don’t believe Trayvon died because he was black.
I personally think both are. Some may argue that the latter example is a stereotype.
Then why doesn’t the media just back off on the race thing? To see HLN line up all their analysts to discuss this as a race issue case is sickening. They make it so blatantly along race lines. I hope the evidence will speak for itself.
Because if two people of two different races go to church together, it’s a racial issue. If two people of different races eat at a Chinese restaurant it’s a racial issue. If you mention fried chicken, it’s a racial issue. If you insult a race it is JOB ENDING but if you insult a gender, or fact people, or morons, you can keep your job. It’s all semantics.
We even have a special law for “hate crimes” now to address cross racial crimes, cross gender role crimes etc, but if your husband beats the shit out of you, if you are the same race it is “domestic violence” and everyone gets arrested. The world has gone mad. We are all smarter than this.
Or so I would like to believe.
Look at the fall-out from the Cheerios commercial! I couldn’t believe some people could be so stupid as to get their underpants in a knot over an interracial couple with the sweetest little girl who cared enough for her daddy as to try to help his heart condition by piling the Cheerios on his shirt over his heart while he slept. I hope the Cheerios creators win all sorts of awards for it. I didn’t see any kind of stereotyping. All I saw was unconditional love.
I saw that commercial a billion times (and it is still running) I am shocked and saddened that this was even an issue. I don’t understand how this … who is upset? Westboro Baptist?
There are a lot of people in this country that see race first, then the person second.
Rachel slipped up in her testimony and said TM was already at his dad’s house. Then she caught herself and said he was almost there. I know she is hurting, her friend is dead and she wants to portray him in the best possible light, but that leads me to believe TM doubled back to confront GZ.
Rachel strikes me as someone who feels somewhat guilty, whether it’s survivors guilt or maybe she said some things to TM that night she wished she hadn’t. I don’t know. I do know she has no problem spinning a story to her/TM’s advantage. Who can blame her? She see’s a way to get back at the man who killed her friend. All she’s ever seen in the media is spin. Why would she think she should behave in any other way? And she watches First 48 so she knows what makes people seem guilty or innocent.
Rachel is still very young emotionally and not the person she will be in a few years. A teenager with the attitude that goes along with it. I did not have any trouble understanding her but I work with children and maybe I have learned to speak their language. TM was probably the same way, it’s a shame we won’t be able to see who he’ll be in a few years.
So far none of the testimony supports the states case of murder. I think the state was forced to take this to trial because of the media hype and they’re doing their best with a losing case. This looks like it was self defense on GZ’s part. Maybe the defense team will do as poorly as the prosecution has and I’ll change my mind again.
For the record, when I first saw the news I was furious an asshole-cop-wannabe killed a little kid. Now I see there was more to the story.
Yea, my crystal ball says the law is on GZ’s side as he “stood his ground”. DAMN, i wish he had shot the kid in the leg or foot……………prepare for riots!! How sad and tragic the whole thing is!
Could be he attempted to shoot without intent to kill, but gun could have been pushed and pulled around at the time the trigger was pulled.
If I were pinned down on the ground having my face smashed in and my skull cracked on the cement, I’m not sure what I would have done in the same situation.
Don’t get me wrong, no mother should lose a son to violence, but at the same time, even if he were being followed by GZ, that is no excuse to attack and beat him.
FYI This is not a Stand Your Ground case. It is a self defense case.
GZ brought the gun into the situation, so the onus is on him to use it properly. An innocent boy who was doing nothing more than walking home is dead, and that is due to GZ not doing what he was told by police to do. I don’t care if Trayvon Martin hated white people, showed gang signs, or if he was as polite as an altar boy in church-he died because GZ was too gung ho and carried a gun, which he used.
Doesn’t matter if they were chasing each other around the whole complex all day and night in an elaborate game of hide and seek, the gun wasn’t pulled out until after attack on GZ began, after screams of help were unneeded, and severe bodily harm being done. That is the essence in this case of self defense. If the roles were reversed and it was GZ that was shot by TM, would you call GZ “an innocent boy” too, or would you call it self defense?
Camm……..off mark when you think it is simply an innocent boy walking home………….he beat hell out of GZ for a brief while…………..
“screams of help UNHEEDED…” ((sigh))
Docwall-I’m not sure that Trayvon beat the hell out of GZ…those cuts on the back of his head were small, and scalps bleed a LOT with any injury. It didn’t really look to me that his head had been slammed into concrete over and over…he definitely had a broken nose, but..Trayvon died. If GZ had training in MMA, why did he feel the need to pull out a gun? I think both men over reacted, but if GZ had done what he was told to do by the police, the whole thing wouldn’t have happened, and that’s what makes me put the blame on GZ. I know this-if MY son died, steps away from my house, because someone out there thought he was suspicious, you would have to restrain me whenever I saw the person that decided to shoot him dead.
you’re right……………..so very sad…………heart-breaking…..and yes, why oh why the gun out?
That is a good question about the MMA. If George was training in MMA he should have been able to handle a 17 year old kid. I had not thought of that.
I had heard that the reference to MMA described as “exercises”, perhaps different than combat instruction. On another report, they were described as aerobic exercises.
It has also been said that instead of taking the few steps to his father’s fiancees house, TM made the decision to find GZ and then confronted him. Both sides, at this point, were equally culpable, so the question is, what happened next? Who attacked who?
The altercation that took place that ended with the final one shot, was not near TM’s father’s fiancee’s house. That means that TM was following GZ, who was on his way back to his car.
GZ was 5′ 7.5 inches tall and TM was 6′ 2″, not child-sized at all.
I do not want to seem condescending or otherwise, but it came to my attention today that some people don’t really understand the origins of “CRACKER”………..such as my good buddy from Boston-she kinda knew it meant white person, and maybe it had to do with white saltine crackers. SO, FWIW, in case anyone here doesn’t know the meaning or origins, here is my best understanding: Back when this country had slaves, there were some SOB folks who held a whip and either beat people (slaves), or cracked the whip aorund them to motivate them to work faster/harder/longer……….thus: a CRACKER is not just a white person, but a white supremicist who beat and abused blacks (slaves). I wonder, who can share the origins of nigger??
Nigger use to mean bad or ignorant child. Sometime in the early 1800’s it became exclusively used towards blacks.
Oh bullshit. Nigger is the dialect of the old south for Negro. Nothing more, nothing less. The boats came with “negros” The southern term “nigra” was born it evolved into nigger. all of those terms mean black. Nothing more nothing less. Cracker is more aligned with Nazi than Nigger. In pretty much every romantic language there is some form of Negro and you can find it in the color palate at art colleges. No one there finds it offensive. It’s an American stigma over a word that never had one. One might wonder why we have the NAACP if the word was such a deal breaker back then. Nigger is a dialect of Negro.
The same thing happened with retarded. We do not call children retarded anymore because assholes started to make fun of mentally handicapped kids (not trying to imply a connection here other than word usage) retarded is a medical term for slow development. But once we started using it as an insult, it became the r-word.
It’s all ridiculous semantics. Words like faggot and retard and nigger get put on the list of HORRIFICALLY BAD WORDS, because some (usually white) person comes along decides that these poor people who have been using the words themselves for years, must be saved from persecution and convince those groups they are being insulted.
Paula Deen is losing an empire over some other white woman who doesn’t even claim she ever said nigger in her presence but her brother did so that is good enough to prove a hostile work environment. Are you listening? We have now gotten to the point that WHITE PEOPLE can sue WHITE PEOPLE for a racial slur against another race.
Imma shut up now. It is all insane to me. Especially when some of y’all need to break down your ethnic background to support your opinion as if someone from another race could not agree with you.
Sheeple.
The English settlers in the 1600’s in this country used the word to refer to children. later it referred to black people. This what I was taught as a child but maybe the people who taught me this historic lesson was wrong. If that is true then I am wrong.
Docwall, I didn’t know the origin of cracker but was very surprised to hear someone on the news today say that TM wouldn’t know what it meant, which, of course is ridiculous, as he said ‘white _ _ _ cracker’.
I have finally caught up and heard all the prosecution witnesses so far. A couple of the witnesses seemed to help the defense more than the prosecution and the Spanish lady only saw the scene after TM was dead. Someone said TM asked for saran wrap and Vaseline to put on his wounds, which just broke my heart. But, from these witnesses it seems TM died almost immediately which is horrible but better than him knowing he was dying and suffering even for a minute. It’s all so sad and all so avoidable! Rachel said TM was near his house. Why didn’t he go inside his house and tell his dad that someone was following him?
If someone was bashing my head on concrete, I’d think I was going to die. I’m just saying…
Rose, I agree that it is so sad that TM did not find a way to just run/walk/negotiate his 9way back home. Yet, he did manage to break a nose prior to being shot………….what a culture that he felt he had to fight instead of talk or seek help……………..imagine had he asked Rachel to call his dad to help him on the walk…………or even call 911 himself……assertive way to deal with someone tailing you, huh? “Dude, i don’t know what you are doing or want , but i am on the phone with 911 and will stay there until they arrive.” God, so many other better ways to deal with such a thing………………………….AND YET……………..he got into a physical altercation with GZ…….there is no way to deny or refute and Rachel only supports that he was into a physical altercation…………poor kid……….poor GZ……
and, yes, me, too…………someone is bashing my head, i would do what i felt i needed to as well…………..but my preference would be gonads…………not thorax
Rose, it wasn’t TM asking for Saran wrap, it was a police officer who arrived at the scene who attempted resuscitation on TM.
Prosecution is trying to downplay severity of attack and injuries. How long would any of us wait to defend ourselves if attacked? Obviously, GZ didn’t shoot TM while they were both on their feet, but only after being pinned to the ground and being punched and head-slammed into the concrete. Is that considered severe enough? Did GZ know if TM had a gun? How would GZ know that he would not have been shot by TM? TM clearly was the attacker (witnesses) and when GZ could no longer defend himself in the same manner using physical force, should he allow his head to be cracked open and his face smashed in?
Aw, Sandra, I do now remember one of the witnesses saying her husband was getting a WM bag as asked for by a policeman.
Yes, Docwall, so many other ways to handle the situation and none of them deadly.
Anybody else see Trayvon’s stepmother (forgot her name) on Anderson Cooper the other night? I think she was genuine but made me uncomfortable. She felt “left out in all this.”; perhaps rightfully so, but this is about Trayvon’s killing, not how much time she spent with him while he was growing up or her failed relationship with how Travon’s dad and how he wasn’t keeping her in the loop as things were unfolding. I dunno, somethin in the milk ain’t clean….
Also, a friend of Rachel’s was on Piers Morgan Friday night and I’ve come to this conclusion: their school district is failing those children. With flying colors. Every child is left behind!! She barely speaks any better than Rachel and her composure was not that refined (for lack of a better word). I couldn’t help but laugh when Piers said, “thank you for joining me.” And she shortly replied, “okay. Bye.” I don’t think this is a cultural thing. That school district is improperly “educating” its students and it’s really sad. I’m sure this is reflected in other districts around the country, not picking on them. Just making an observation. Sort of piggybacking off of what an earlier commenter – i think peachteachr referring to functional illiteracy – posted as well as applauding ravynn12369. I also figured someone else wrote Rachel’s letter for her because maybe she can’t write? Passing students to the next grade level is a severe disservice to the child. It’s really sad.
(Sorry, I addressed a few things in this post)
again her school district HAS IT’S OWN POLICE FORCE. Good teachers don’t want to go there, and the ones that do bail after the first year because there is no help with disciplining the gangbangers, there is one counselor for more than 500 kids, they are forced to teach the NCLB curriculum when the kids are not capable of meeting standards. NCLB single handedly destroyed our education system. Also in the district they will tell you that there is a cap on SPED. No more than 5% of students should be considered SPED and more than that means the teachers are shunting people into the system they do not want to teach. Our opinions are not considered even if we hold multiple graduate degrees and a many years of experience.
Sorry. personal rant.
You may enjoy a documentary titled “Hard Times At Douglas High”. It’s about No Child Left Behind and follows students at an inner city high school in Baltimore, MD. It’s really good and I’d imagine the situation is similar in Rachel’s schools district and many others around the country. You should really check it out.
Also, if I catch trial coverage on CNN tomorrow ill make sure I’m quick to comment and let you know. 🙂
What TT said. I spent my last 7 years teaching the most at risk 1st graders in our county. So fortunate to work in a school system that told me to teach them to read, a little math, and don’t worry about anything else. For those seven years, my class size was 10. In my rural county, you can be a grandmother at 26. This is NOT a typo. So you really have to acknowledge the cycle of illiteracy that is further complicated by the vicious cycle of poverty. I guess most of you will be surprised by the fact that approximately 40% of our population is funcitionaly illiterate… read and write below a 5th grade level. That would mean that if they had cancer, they would not be able to read the instructions that come with the meds. The closer to local control of education a school can get the better.
That stat doesn’t surprise me in the least bit. Just looking around at my peers when I was in college, I was astonished at the amount of people who don’t understand the basic foundations of the English language. Nor do they care!! They can barely tackle basic math or simple algebra and don’t know how to put together a 5-paragraph essay arguing their point of view with supporting evidence. The educational system is not educating. And neither are the parents.
My first five or so years of teaching I taught READING to college students. I had a special reading class for nursing majors…. THAT is scary.
When I began college in 1967, that’s right after the dinosaurs died, there was no such thing as Math 99 or English 99. In my 1st English class, the professor said if you are here b/c your mama wants you to be or you hope to avoid the draft, the war in Viet Nam was raging, he said you should get up and walk out NOW. There were only 2 passing grades on the our 1st essay and I placed 2nd with a C- -.Thomas Jefferson said something to the effect of while it is equal for all people to study algebra all people are not equal in algebra. Still true.
Anyone ever notice when you go to a drive-thru restaurant (McDonalds for example) or even on the inside, when you give some of these kids your order,and they repeat it back to you, you have a hard time understanding what they say (at least I do). And God forbid you have a question about your order or the menu. Not picking on them, but it is a reflection of a lack of basics in communication and reading skills thats not being taught in schools. Plus these fast food places like that don’t train the workers like they used to in cust. service, manners etc. And our congress wants to cut education and teachers salaries, headstart etc. If these youth are our workforce of the future, I feel we are trouble.