Sorry for the delay in posting this. I fell asleep in the sun and was zonked out yesterday. Thank Kimmer for doing this.
Zimmerman’s Harem
Hello Tattlers, guest blogger @Kay_Rock back again to talk about my favorite topic: the often unlady-like Lady Justice and her watch over the endless desire of Americans to kill one another. Today we’ll talk about the tinderbox known as the Zimmerman Trial.
As you know, Florida’s reputation for legal fuckwittery is well established. Today, the rest of the nation will watch nervously as opening statements begin in the Zimmerman trial in central Florida. And considering this case has already sparked fury-fueled internet wars across social media and rekindled old feuds across the nation, we won’t be turning away any time soon.
George Zimmerman, a resident of Sanford, Florida, is accused of the 2nd degree murder of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman claims that the killing was self-defense. The teen-aged Trayvon, armed only with a pack of skittles, caught neighborhood-watch-warrior Zimmerman’s attention as the boy walked to his father’s house in the gated townhome community. He never arrived.
In the year since, the argument about whether the killing was racially motivated has split neighbors, coworkers, friends and families as people debate whether the hoodie-wearing teenaged African American boy was racially profiled by Zimmerman. The response has run the gamut from posthumously vilifying Trayvon (in the hopes of providing a retroactive defense, perhaps?) to denying that race plays any role in the day-to-day lives of Americans. One can only assume the folks in the latter camp have failed to leave their homes since… the late 1600s? Or perhaps Captain Kirk and Spock brought them here from the utopian future where hatred is reserved for those pesky Klingons and all of earth lives in economic and racial harmony and peace. Kumbaya.
Also throwing their hats in to the ring for this battle are the gunfighters, taking turns slapping each other with rebel flags and background check papers.
I’m sure before this is over, Nancy Grace will have inspired a few more groups into a frothing frenzy, blinding justice with her holy bangs of righteous indignation.
As much as our collective hatred and mistrust is focused on the defendant, attorneys, judge, victims families, and each other, we all have one thing in common: every eye is focused on the invisible jury.
Jury selection was completed Thursday, and few details have been released about the six members and four alternates. Yes, that’s only six. Florida only uses 12 jurors in capital cases in which the death penalty is a possibility. For all other trials, they figure six people can screw it up just as well for half the cost. And considering the jury will be sequestered until the conclusion of the trial (complete with “entertainment” being provided for non-trial days), the expense won’t be minimal. I wonder if Judge Belvin Perry will be sending over his infamous dessert lady? Nobody loves a jury like the great Judge Belvin.
We do know a few little tidbits about our jury:
The six primary jurors are all women. Five of the women are white, and one is Hispanic. They are mostly middle age and older. Two of the four alternates are male (one white, one Hispanic). None of the jurors is black. One juror had a prior arrest. Two are new to the area (one from Iowa, one from Chicago). Two have hobbies that include animal rescue. With luck, court watchers will start to share more information as the trial unfolds, and we’ll be able to get you more details as soon as they become available. One thing is certain, though; the ethnicity of this jury isn’t likely to quell the burning flames of racial tension surrounding this trial.
The jury selection process in Seminole County has already raised eyebrows, as some potential jurors were very open about sharing pre-conceived opinions. The judge, Debra Nelson, did not seem concerned that the jury pool was being tainted by potentials who called the victim a “thug” and criticized his parents. Standards for rehabilitation seemed quite flexible. When asked if they could still be fair, as long as a juror could shrug and nod a bit, Judge Deb seemed satisfied that they could continue in the selection pool.
Jury selection was followed by a hearing at which the judge denied the state’s request to bring in voice experts to identify the person screaming for help during Trayvon’s final moments.
With so little to go on, we are all grasping at straws to try to guess which way the wind might blow in this case, and every decision Judge Deb makes is being scrutinized and analyzed by talking heads and tweeters alike, with equal credibility.
So what are your thoughts? How will a juror of animal-loving, gun-toting older white women handle a case so loaded with critical social landmines? Will Lady Justice be able to stop weeping and once again smile over the Florida Landscape?
Whiwwwww ! – Gosh, sure is quiet in here… I can hear the wind blowin’ and just the morning birds a-chirpin’………. ok. — Perhaps the battle of the chicken-women is still raging……… ok ! — Anyway, I heard this ridiculous knock-knock joke about an insensitve attorney……….. whiwww ! ! OMG – the earth IS flat ! 🙂
That was a direct quote from Sherri shepherd, right?
TeeCee 66 – I have no time to read back right to see – Who’s that ?
Teecee please do not let me think that you are not bright. No one start
And opening statement with a knock knock bullshit joke gz attornies are
Not very bright they are slow thinking and speaking. Who gives a damn
Who he quoted. IT WAS WRONG !!!!!
Sorry attorney’s
And yet everyone including media is talking about that opening statement. Who is the dumbass now?
TT I love you but please delete my emils this is to much and I’m feeling to much passion regarding this issue it is to Painfuul to watch and read.Me and my entire family had to Leave our home and beloning in mississippi because of my father and other mason’s involvement with Dr King. They were going to hang my dad. Thanks again my Loving TT
Wait whut? And sorry, I can’t sign you up or unsign you up for thread comments. If you go to the place where you click to make a post, click on that and uncheck the email me comments on this post.
I would love to know who was trying to hang your father???
Oh dear god. How do people this stupid function???
I’m not sure, why don’t you tell us how you do it?
I don’t know either of the folks above, but the response is really funny. I got no pony in the rodeo.
So far I think that Zimmerman is guilty of man slaughter and not 2nd degree murder. I am not sure if his profiling, and yes I do believe he profiled Trayvon, was based on color or age. I do have a huge problem with the fact that 911 told him not to follow the kid and he did it anyway. But I want to see all the evidence, including what the girl that was on the phone with Trayvon has to say. I think the knock knock joke was stupid and the defense attorney is an idiot for telling it.
I heard a judge on the radio this morning say the knock knock joke was brillaint. In that it deflects from the prosecution’s opening statement and puts all the attention on him and get people talking about him and his awful joke. at least i think that is what the judge said on the radio.
RVA – Bingo ! But “B” is not for brilliant – “B” is for BULLSHIT ! But he did get that Ol’ Negative PR going now didn’t he ? – GZ’s attorney’s have been shooting blanks out of their proverbial asses from the get-go. Why – because their defense sucks. I have quite a few Atty. friends & aquaintences and apparently there is new wave of “Snakedom” abound this social media meca. They take a chance on it back firing. Causes the need for more middle-men, PR people & court consultants, etc. Had Mr. West NOT droned on for the next 2.5 hours – taping, taping his overhead map board with his pen – then I would have thought his “joke timing” was just sad. (some people are born with it & some are not) but that is apparently his style. Zzzzzzzzz ! Good luck with that and 6 women ! [Hope they have something bigger !] 🙂
Watched that “knock knock” opening statement (cringe) and based on the makeup of the jury, and their answers to the questions at jury selection, I don’t have a good feeling about how this one will turn out. I personally feel that GZ killed that kid and NOT in self defense, but because he lives in Fla. and it seems to be open season on ybm there and across this country. This is strictly my own opinion.
I am watching this case closely. I feel that GZ did profile Trayvon, instead of just reporting a suspicious person and letting the police handle it. I am interested to see what the girl will say. Also, GZ needs to get a new defense attorney, that knock,knock joke was very insensitive. I think that he could have come up with another way to let the jurors know how important they are to this trial. One more thing, what happened to having black, asian, male, transgender jurors? I don’t understand how 5 white women and 1 hispanic woman can be considered a jury of his peers. It just seems that they would have picked a more diverse group of jurors.
I missed the lion’s share of TV picking the jury (had too much home dramas) but I was flabbergasted that the State ended up with a jury of 6 women only. Weird how history flips !! Only men were allowed on jury panels. To those younger out there – watch the classic movie 12 Angry Men !! Women are the majority now. WOW ! Tried to fight against cubby-holes in the 60’s. Now we’re cubby-holed to no end. Mass information compilation farming. I still predict a hung jury…. (well – maybe ? – just can’t make up my my mind. Lol)
I have to disagree with you JustUs…….I really believe the 6 women will be able to agree on a verdict……which one, though, I’m not entirely sure. I predicted a hung jury in the JA penalty phase ~ everyone thought I was nuts, but……
What a stupid blog entry. Only an idiot would confuse disagreeing with a law and deciding if someone’s activities were within that law. Disagree with the law all you want. But understand that Zimmerman acted within the parameters of that law, therefore doing nothing illegal.
Please don’t be a bitch to my friend who is doing me a great favor by giving her opinions while I am slacking on vacation. I’d be happy to let you do a guest entry if you want to share and alternate POV. Maybe.
TT please hand teecee666 a bag of Skittles and everyone gets to take as many shots at her as she has posted angry, whacked-out rants on your blog…Worst charge would be a “Cruelty to Animal”…but we’d beat that rap when you introduce the 7,500 ignorant postings she made just this month.
TT, I hope you have a wonderful vacation. I just want to say Jane Velez-Mitchell is so deliberately inflammatory and generally horrible that I now run errands and go grocery shopping during her show. I live in a little town that explodes as soon as school gets out in June, so 7:00 p.m. is the perfect time to avoid the tourists (thank you from the economy) and Jane. I also agree that we should play nicely, respect different points of view, and understand that the goal here is to have intelligent, entertaining discussion. At least, I think it is. Anyway, HAVE FUN!
i think the knock knock joke is just the first seed for a later appeal. if convicted I can hear gz sayin but but my lawyers was making jokes not defending me please give another trial. Back when TT posted the jodi jury instructions i used thosed with what info i had heard about gz case and found manslaughter. Gz carried a deadly weapon. That may be legal there but if you carry you have the resposibility to use properly. Gz did not follow 911 operator instructions to not persue. I think that Trayvon eventually confronted the person following him. I have. Thats when the scuffle leading to death occurred. Since TM obviously conffronted GZ is what takes from 2nd deg murder to manslaughter. STAND YOUR GROUND WORKS BOTH WAYS
I agree with you Steve and had the same exact thought as soon as I heard it. It’s an “out” incase they need it.
I totally agree, it’s an out also in case they lose.
Steve, when GZ was told not to follow the young man, wasn’t he headed back to his car when TM confronted him? I am so far behind on this case! I had no idea the defense attorney started his opening statement with a knock-knock joke.
There are pictures of Trayvon’s body on the screen in the courtroom.Once again his parents have walked out of court. I can’t imagine the defense allowing the parents to wander in and out of the courtroom during testimony, it is distracting and prejudicial. During the Arias trial, JM always let the victims family know what lied ahead (after that first surprise autopsy picture of Travis). They need to do that here and have the parents either decide they don’t want to be present or stay without causing a disruption. I understand this must be very hard for the parents to endure, but they either have to suck it up, or wait for the pictures to be over.
I’m sure or hope you understand the severe pain the parents are still suffering
The judge did address it. Leaving is better than sobing out loud tm mother did
Leave the court room TT and did not return.
Monday.
I know, but somehow this court or Florida just doesn’t seem to get it right. And I do agree with another commenter, it’s becoming open season on young black males and our society is going to pay for this one day.
Most black males that are murdered are murdered by fellow black males, in astounding numbers.
The Stand Your Ground law was never intended to protect someone who left the ground where their vehicle was sitting, tracked and followed someone over public ground where he was minding his own business, and then made the victim feel threatened while walking over ground he had every right to hundreds of feet away from said vehicle where defendant was told to stay. Intent of the law – period. Manslaughter is basically being negligent, Zimmerman went way beyond. Then again Casey Anthony was tried in Florida and look where that ended up…
I don’t believe the defense has anything to do with the Stand Your Ground law. I believe it is a straight self-defense case. If I recall correctly GZ attys have said as much The theory being that George was pinned by TM and therefore unable to flee or stand his ground… I may be remembering this wrong.
Meanwhile, I have been very reluctant to cover this trial here simply because of the level of division of opinions. I hope, since we are all watching we can share our opinions in a civilized way. #uglybaby2013
Perhaps you were right not to cover it, TT. The Paula blog is getting pretty over cooked there, so I don’t want to imagine where this will take us or if some will contiune to come along. Just waiting for Andrea’s trial… is there a Side Bar we’ll all love to hate ever again ? 🙂 I just don’t want to be told to shut the fuck up again.
Me, too, JustUsForAll. I’m dying for Andrea Sneiderman’s trial. Now there’s somebody I can love to hate. Jodi with a brain, all grown up and married. Oops…was married. This trial just makes me sad. It’s such a tragedy for everyone involved.
I believe George is guilty as sin. But this is Florida and they let Casey Anthony off and I believe they will let George off as well.
Oh God. I hope your are wrong.
JustUs the case we are all going to love to hate will be baby elainas mom. That case gets closer to feeling like florida tot mom. I think the boyfriends family and her are hiding inpropieties made to that baby girl. Something terrible happened and the only reason to not speak up is to COVER UP. And JustUs remember TT wants us all to get along. Dont let those with no self control get you down.
Oh I know Steve. That one is at my front door due North by Northwest. Just started to get into the details – and it doesn’t look good @ all. Poor baby girl !! Oh god. ~ Thanks for the confidence booster – I really liked our JA bloggers and everyone that contributed conversely without calling each other names. Maybe is was the SuperMoon !! Thnx ! – 🙂
It’s not so much that we all need to get along, it is that we all need to be a little thicker skinned with regards to words on the Internet. If someone tells you to shut the fuck up that is an offer to engage in battle. You are free to take it, or ignore it as you see fit. The world is not fully of nothing but sunshine and rainbows. I don’t mind the fighting, I just don’t understand engaging in it if it doesn’t interest you. I’ve known TC for years online. She is who she is… it’s an acquired taste. 🙂
Wait….why you bringing me up here??? What makes you think they mean me??? Did you read all the comments on the Paula Deen blog? Plenty of name calling and meanness that was not me!
Great. Way to call me out for skipping over some other people’s comments. Also you are the usual suspect for making people cry, or go into a tantric state, and such. So while plenty of people are mean here, you are my favorite. 🙂 Now leave me alone, I have traveler’s tummy and am praying that my airport transportation actually shows up this time. Also I think you should write a GZ guest blog. OR OH OH OH OH recap BB for me tonight!
Oooooh! Would have loved that. But didnt watch. We are hooked on masterchef and they were at the same time. Rental has no DVR, so going to watch BB on the iPad whenever it shows up online. Or when we get home.
I’m so afraid Casey Anthony taught all the baby-killers to stash the poor baby’s body long enough that no one can really figure out the exact cause of death or time of death. Evidence is destroyed, degrades, or is compromised. Result: Mommy walks. I’m worried that the same thing will happen in the Baby Elaina case. Casey Anthony was a terrible liar, but a really good hider. Is that a word?
My cookies were down again. My reply to Steve hung up TT.
Ok – there it is – Nevermind !!
JustUs.. I live about 200 miles from those 2 iowa cousins who were killed last year. The FBI here drained a lake for TWO weeks before really looking anywhere else..no amber alert was ever issued. Now the FBI is looking in water for Elaina there. With multiple adults in the house how can NOBODY know where the 18mo baby went?
I’m not sure I remember about the 2 cousins ?? Do you remember their names?What I don’t understand is why others at that house haven’t been taken in for questioning ?? I haven’t been following the facts as they unfold but I guess the gang on HLN including NG is. How can anyone do anything to kids ? ~ Oh god I wish some station would get a good court sessions tv show without all the constant commercial crap attached for those of us who can’t muck through the hype.
OMG I totally agree HLN has become UNWATCHABLE due to the commercials. Did anything interesting happen today? I only saw the first few minutes when the parents left.
TT – that’s kinda where I left it off too. Then I went off to practice my breathing managment exercises…lol ! Q?: I’m guessing there is no live-streams of this trial – I’m stuck w/ HLN. On the other subject I can handle a good debate and most of the time I know when to recede – but I don’t get through a day with people telling each other to get fucked ! – I clearly don’t believe all is sunshine & rainbows, actually it’s the contrary… but that’s why I enjoyed blogging here because everyone was engaging regardless of opinions. Maybe it’s different on your other posts. Hell, you’ve given others and me shit but we still show some respect and say we’re sorry once in awhile. Peace Out as they say…now days ? By the way – welcome home.
I’m not home yet sweetie. I have 12 hous of crap for five hours of flying tomorrow. 🙁 There are most def livestreams… I have put a couple links through but just google and see what works for you. I don’t have HLN here so I was watching a bit on a live stream from a coconut Internet. It wasn’t working for me. 🙂
I know you are having an EXTREMELY difficult time (but TC does not) Also she was not interested in JA trial. So you got lucky there. 🙂 What I DON’T want is for this to be very stressful for you. Just don’t engage. I have to be honest, I am A LOT like TC most places on the Internet and actually worse. 🙂 She and I have gotten INTO IT several times about stuff over the years and we in no way have the same opinions on everything. But neither of us loses any sleep over what the other says no matter how horrendous. 🙂 Sometimes it is a good release to argue with idiots on the Internet. But if it is causing you to do your breathing exercises, I hope you disengage. I promise you, if we all stay here long enough, we will all like the oldbies including TC and just LOL when new people come in and go through the Tee Cee hazing. 🙂 I promise you five minutes after she tells you to go fuck yourself, she has moved on to something else. It’s just sparring if you engage and ignoring if you don’t. Take care of yourself.
Coconuts ! Actually my breathing was ok, I was kidding. I learned “anger management” (new term to me) watching my household @ 9yrs. old. Took me over 30yrs. to implement it. Just seems a knat is annoying and a bully is a bully. Thanks for the reply – it helped. Meantime – Tamara have a safe safe trip flying home !
the iowa cousins were Lyric Cook Morissey and Elizabeth Collins. They went missing last july and bodies found in december. Police have released no info. Their bikes were found by lake so nobody looked for them for two weeks. Hunters found their bodies. I just tried watching jane alez mitchell to catchup on z case but everybody was hollering over each other exactly why not watchin z case all day.
I know – I just shut her off. I guess that’s her and/or her producer’s edge for HLN now but it’s getting ridiculous. I’ve gone through lots of batteries, now I need a new remote… Mute on Mute off ! Drew at least does have an orderly fashion with disent but for the most part – they comfortably agree. I think Jane used to be good way back when – but now all I see – is her in a big fish-eye lens. I think they started promoting that “reporter on the street” approach during the Anthony trial. Watching the camera chasing her – as she chases some poor schmuck down…Ugh !! LOL ! – I guess it must be in vogue to spit the furthest or lob hate balls the hardest or something…
I’m with you, JustUsForAll, JVM is unbearable. I just posted about no longer watching her show…EVER AGAIN.
I have a whole FREAKOUT post about jane where I violated my own rule and named it something with Jane the Lez Mitchell. search for lez in my search box. I am not proud of it, but I just lost it when she was chasing jurors down the street.
ALso I am home but not yet reacclimated. 🙂
Steve, have you tried wildabouttrial.com You can get live feeds on various trials and a lot of good info. I chose not to follow the GZ trial, but it appears they’re are showing it.
Trayvon was doing nothing wrong – simply a 17 year old kid returning home in the rain talking on telephone with earpiece with a hood covering his head. he was not peeking in anyones window or on someone’s property unlawfully. but GZ decided he was suspicious. as a result of GZ’s actions Trayvon is now dead. GZ is responsible for his death period.
Is Dr. Drew is a RERUN ? Ok – I guess the part about Baby Elaina was re-read !? Could have swore I heard that same conversation last night.
“Could have swore”
Oy. Sixth grade education?
Jesus, are you out of practice? The party line is “Could have swore”????? Are you Amish? Did you drop out of the sixth grade to milk cows? You are slipping….
Ding!
Tamara, can you delete all my comments because my grandfather was well hung. Everso in advance.
How would a nice girl like you know a thing like THAT?
LOLOLOL. She did not say that, you pest. If you accidently or on purpose hit the “email me everytime someone comments” button on a very active post you get an email for every post. Don’t event THINK about it. 🙂
hi just wanted you all to know there is live streaming of the zimmerman case http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream it’s better than hln
Shawn, thanks for link!
the question i have for GZ is how did TM know to grab for the gun. The pics shown today had GZ wearing a long waisted coat. The gun isnt easily seen and was back on his waist.
This is an excellent question. This is why we have trials where people are presumed innocent until proven guilty and given the opportunity to defend their actions. This is just like the Jodi Arias trial. There I no doubt that he killed Trayvon. The question is can he mount a better defense than Jodi Arias attempted? Is there anything that will come out in court to prove he broke the law? The trial is about the law, and whatever whackadoodle laws they have in FL. It’s not about what you or I think is right, it is about what the law says…. which is why I want to watch the trial but frankly after JA this one is rather boring.
I just hate already that people are calling the defense attys stupid ONCE AGAIN. Which means everyone presumes GUILT and that is not how things work. They carefully select a jury that presumes INNOCENCE and then the state makes the case to sway them. I took a lot of shit during JA for ….WAITING FOR THE TRIAL and trying to calm everyone from shouting “Fry the bitch!” based on dramatic media crap. Frankly I would not have given Jodi the death penalty. I tried not to say it when the trial was going on because everyone is so heated.
Anyway, I really would make a great juror on both cases because I don’t base my opinon on media coverage. As a blogger and someone who follows International politics I see how many times CNN, FOX, NBC, etc get it wrong. I just want everyone to get a fair trial.
I heard that part during the interview with the police. GZ said as he and TM were on the ground and he was struggling to get away his jacket and shirt pulled up and TM saw the gun. GZ then said TM took his hand off his mouth and moved his hand toward the gun.
I just realized as I reread what I’d written that GZ said TM had his hand over his mouth! Could that mean GZ was the one yelling for help and TM put his hand over his mouth to stop him?
This is why we need to LISTEN TO THE EVIDENCE and determine if that happened or not.
That’s what GZ “said” ! If someone were about to attack someone and victim started to scream “help” – then wouldn’t it be the “attacker” who would cover the mouth of the person screaming for help so no one could hear the attack? I know, let’s ask the other guy.
but if TM had his hand over GZs mouth he would have had blood on it from broken nose. They testified TM had NO blood on his hands or under nails. Twisting the puzzle pieces seeing how they fit. Thats whats fun..and have so many minds here to add and share their view
In listening to GZ’s other 911/non 911 calls – every time the dispatcher asks him to give his name or address – he’s reluctant almost annoyed. My guess is he too, has been lying & distorting the truth for attention for a very long time. – Is there any records of his civil service test score when he tried out to be a cop ? Where I come from they were public record. Before I met my husband I was dating a 27 yr. veteran – Juvenile Detective. (tough job w/ dead & battered kids) The Dept. had a couple “cop-wanna-be’s” that kept coming back till finally the Dept. told them to try the State Patrol or Sheriff’s Depts. All the cops knew who they were by name & the guys used to laugh about them around the local drinking hole. Everybody knew they were loose cannons just itchin’ for a draw. (also, anyone remember talking about JA’s narrowing, almost crossed eyes with no emotion?)
I love puzzles, Steve! I hadn’t heard that TM had no blood on his hands or under his nails but GZ definitely had a broken, bloody nose and a couple of lacerations on the back of his head so it seems there should be some evidence of blood, at least. And if I remember correctly from seeing the photos he also had scratches on his face! I did hear on Dr. Drew last night that it was raining so perhaps the rain washed the blood away on his hands. Also, there is speculation that the police did not do a thorough job of collecting evidence that could have cleared GZ or proved his guilt. I wonder if TM had injuries, other than the gunshot wound.
Did you see the pictures of GZ’s head? I hadn’t realized it was as bad as it was until I saw the court pictures. In addition to the blood, his head had bumps all over. Kind of fits GZ’s story that TM was beating his head into the sidewalk. This whole case only came to court because of the public outcry of justice for Travon. And that’s okay. I feel sorry for Travon’s family. I hope their questions are answerved for them. It’ll never bring back their son. I understand they already sued the homeowner’s assoc and received a settlement. No amount of money will take the pain away.
Wouldn’t anyone fight back if someone was following you, then came up to you up close & personal with the attitude that “you” were doing something wrong ? Too sad that Trayvon didn’t prevail. It might have been a fair physical fight if some one didn’t have one in the chamber ready and was coming on “half-cocked.” Use logic ! (Ocum’s Razor) Especially on a rainy night. You think GZ is bad – you should see the other guy. 🙁 I don’t feel sorry for GZ at all.
I don’t know if I’d “fight back” if someone was following me. I’m pretty old. First of all I don’t think I’d be walking in dark by myself. If I were doing that and I found myself being followed I’d probably be scared to death. I’d either start running, yell for help or tell the person behind me that I had a phone and was calling 911. Heck. I’d probably do all 3. I’m not a GZ supporter. I guess I’m just curious how the jury sees it. No one’s a winner here. And I understand TM is the biggest loser.
I know Beverly – Yes – You do all 3. It’s a frightening situation no matter who you are. I spent 4yrs. working in NYC learning my way by myself. I adapted my own method of “not showing” fear & sharpening my periphial vision. Had to catch a bus 5+ days & nights a week – walking downtown from mid-town to between 38th & 42nd St. (called Hell’s Kitchen) In the 80’s is was laden with homeless, junkies, and all porn shops/theaters to get to my bus @ Port Authority. Had some really tense moments almost missing the last bus to NJ with no where else to be. One really scrambles their mind for “what to do next” when you think you’re being followed. Took the subway 3 times – then never again.
Personally, I think it sort of goes against the grain for the person being followed to confront or fight the person following him/her. Your first instinct is to protect yourself and as Beverly said, run, yell, call 911!
TM had a cell phone. I don’t think he was afraid of GZ or he would have/could have called 911.
I thought of that too. Since he was on the phone with his girf friend – didn’t she advise him to run – not sure if she’d told him to hang up and call 911. All of us would certainly do that, my husband would tell me to hang up and call 911. But trying to find anywhere to get to comes to my mind. Was there time to call before GZ & TM came face to face ?
JustUs, it’s pretty clear that you’ve decided Zimmerman is guilty. If Martin “had prevailed”, Zimmerman would be dead, his head bashed open on the sidewalk. By your own words, that would be preferable.
Occam’s Razor? If it was used, it would be, on the facts we currently know – Zimmerman follows Martin, Martin overpowers Zimmerman, Martin goes for Zimmerman’s gun, struggle ensues, Martin dies. Homicide (human dies), but not murder (death is illegal).
By the way, chamber loaded is how almost everyone who carries concealed carries. Half-cocked is not applicable to the type of firearm Zimmerman carried. I understand that you dated a guy who was in law enforcement, but I live and teach this. The only opinion I have right now is that the media is inflaming the trial watchers, and that most of the people who are expressing opinions about “stand your ground” and “lawful use of force” don’t understand the actual law – nor do they care to.
(I apologies ahead for long post) – I don’t want to (what’s called?) flame throw but I don’t care if anyone thinks I’m slanted. I know myself & my own ability to comprehend the arguments as they’re made. Most people thought JA was not innocent before the end of trial too but still followed the case as it unfolded. Opinions can be changed. I think it human nature to slant your argument to whatever side you tend to. (imo) When the “facts of the case” are told they are told by 2 sides. These facts you site are according to the defendant and the defense. The prosecution said he happened differently and has their side. When I said maybe Trayvon would have prevailed I meant – If it would have been a fair hand-to-hand fight. Isn’t it a general fact that if one has a weapon of any sort in an altercation – you risk becoming victim of your own weapon ? Is that not a risk one takes walking around armed ? I mean’t maybe TM would still be Alive. Obviously GZ did not die from his head injuries so (imo) that could not factor into Occums. (thnx for spelling correction) because we see the results of Z’s injuries. I’ve seen women survive far worse beatings. 2 men get into a fight, 1 is armed, 1 is not. The armed man lives – the unarmed man dies. The technical aspect I stated about the weapon was my novice terminolgy for 1 in the chamber combined with an inference of an attitude. I agree with you about the media inflaming almost everything and it stinks. I suppose we’ll have to get used to it now, factoring it in forever, there’s no stopping us & the social media blitz about anything. I was actually commenting on the defensive stance one takes when you believe someone is pursuing you. I’ve experienced it & the fight or flight thing pounds through your chest & head quickly – No time ! Since you mentioned it, (imo) w/ reference to the stand your ground laws, legislators & lobbyists fund, write, and make the laws. The majority of congress rules on them unless written into an Executive Order. They are the laws we have to abide by. – Respectfully, I’m not trying to explain that to you but to make my point I must say I have to & do respect the laws as a law abiding citiizen, so does everyone. That doesn’t mean these laws are not subject to debate, legal challanges & changes. I don’t know about others, but I’m interested in the legislative process of the SYG law, how they’ve been written, who sponsered them & how they were adopted state x state. That’s the great part about the court system & it’s process – People break, challange and appeal our laws and Judges site, rule and amend them everyday. In my state the castle law has been doing it’s job for years.
JustUs, I hear and understand that you don’t care if anyone thinks your opinion is biased. But then you ask other people to “use logic” when you’re running off emotion and opinion. And what you mean isn’t what you actually said… well, okay.
Can we at least agree on some very basic information? Occam’s razor is just a principle in problem solving. It means that the simplest hypothesis, with the least suppositions, is probably the best hypothesis. Occam’s razor is not considered the absolute theoretical solution. So when you say, “Occam’s razor”, you’re not really saying much. (not trying to be ugly, just trying to understand you)
Since your state has had a version of Castle Law for years, you know (again, respectfully, just making sure we’re both using the same vocabulary) that prior to that, if you were attacked in your home, or your home was invaded, your first duty was to get out. Your first legal duty was to attempt to leave the scene to insure your own safety. If you had small children, aged or disabled family members, or were yourself disabled in any way, that put you in a bind. Castle Law generally means that you can defend yourself in your own home – you don’t have to leave. Seems to make sense, yes?
In general, each state’s stand your ground laws just expand that legal protection to anywhere you have a legal right to be. If you are confronted, you don’t have to leave (you may always choose to). Martin had as much right to be where he was as Zimmerman did. The problem starts with who put hands on who first – words aren’t assault.
Justification for deadly force (in general, your state will vary) is fear of death, kidnapping, rape, or severe bodily injury – there isn’t a scale of what, to an observer after the fact, meets that criteria. We don’t get to say to the person, later – well, your nose was broken and your head was getting smacked on the concrete – you could have taken it a little longer.
Citizens who carry concealed firearms are generally required to take a class that explains their legal responsibilities. Nothing that Zimmerman did, up to the point of Martin’s death, was illegal. What he could have done/should have done is Monday morning quarterbacking, and we can do that to each other all day long.
As far as a fair fight, reputable reports place ZImmerman at 5’8″ or 5’9″, 180 pounds at the time of his arrest. Martin was 6’0″ – 6’2″, 160 pounds. It wasn’t ever going to be a fair fight.
Thanks for talking, JustUs. I usually enjoy reading your comments – I was just getting chapped about commenters (not only you) talking about laws they don’t really understand. I appreciate your patience. On to the next post!
Just Saying – Finally re-read your reply and of course I have counterpoints I’d love to make but I’ve been off & on TT since early, early AM again. But I enjoyed reading it and though it may just sound like I’m being polite – I’m being sincere. I do have a high regard for law and order. Thanks for the challanges ! You do seem like your set on the defense argument, as well There is enough fires on TT right now and besides my dishes are still not done ! 🙂
JustUs, never thought you weren’t being polite, or sincere. I hope what I wrote was taken as being respectful and equally sincere. (I don’t enjoy screaming bitchfests, but I do enjoy discussions, so thanks for discussing.)
I’m not particularly set on Zimmerman being innocent, just wanted to set out general facts regarding concealed carry and some of the laws pertaining to it. It’s not my opinion.
Enjoy a clean kitchen and the rest of your evening! Be well –
This lady witness testifying right now – it’s gut wrenching. She said Oh my God so much. But she just said (excited utterance) she heard this person screaming help and this other guy just shot him. She also asks 911 operator why didn’t some one help when he screamed – now he’s dead !
Justus, did you listen to the different 911 calls? On one of the calls, after the gun shot, I’m almost positive I heard someone still yelling for help. Did TM die immediately? I need to find those calls again…if I can find the link!!
Apparently he didn’t. Yesterday the police testified that he requested saran wrap and vaseline after hearing gurgling noises in order to seal the hole in his chest. To the end of his testimony the police said he was then deceased… sigh.
Oh my word!! Isn’t that the saddest thing! That breaks my heart! So senseless!!
Where can I watch the trial online?
http://www.foxnews.com/live-coverage/zimmerman-trial they are on a break but there is commentary here. I don’t know what town it is but it is fox news which many don’t like. Just google if you want an different one there are a ton of options. I like the screen size on this one.
The place we livestreamed the JA trial was a station from around Miami.WPTV was the station I used for JA. They are probably covering this trial, too. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to read what y’all write, just that I didn’t believe I would comment on the trial.
Ashley – I’m not much help because I have live-stream trouble but TT says there are a few links or info on this site or google it. (wildabouttrials.com) I’m stuck with HLN.
CNN was airing it earlier this morning.
This is certainly interesting…copied an excerpt from DrKRandle’s blog.
Zimmerman claimed to be a member of the local USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program, however when their parent organization was contacted, the National Sheriffs Association (NSA), it was found that Zimmerman was not a member of any neighborhood watch organization. In a press statement, the NSA Executive Director condemned the actions of Zimmerman: “The alleged action of a ‘self-appointed neighborhood watchman’ last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program.” Zimmerman referred to himself as the “captain” of the neighborhood watch group. It’s unclear if there were other members or if Zimmerman was the lone member or if the organization actually officially existed at all.
This information might cook his goose.
If you watched the trial at all you would know that the defense and the prosecution have both already fully established he was part of their neighborhood watch program as were others in the gated community.
Then he did not follow protocal of the organization he was representing. That’s a dangerous appointment !
Just Us, it amazes me that you know everything that happened when it is the third day of testimony. Clearly, your mind is made up, but you state a lot of assumptions as fact. Some of us are trying to determine what happened.
No-o-o Tamara – I listened to the testimony of the lady who represented the Neighborhood Watch program. Initially I heard the Prosectutions questions and running in and out in her cross. I’m listening !
Just saying too, Isn’t this whole blog filled with assumptions, corrections, facts, information and opinions in every post ? ~ Isn’t that the challange or joy of the dynamics here ? ~ I am who I am.
Yes it is. I just wish people would differentiate between fact and opinion as I am relying on this thread for facts until I get home.
Now who is the guy in the wheelchair with all the extra medical equiptment sitting by the family?
I have not watched much of the trial, TT. We are having our master bathroom remodeled and we have run back and forth to Lowe’s about a zillion times in the last week. What I have watched is so slow and boring! Those attorneys are no Juan Martinez! They are more like Nurmi.
I like Mark Omeara but the other defense atty does lull you to sleep. I also like the prosecuter.
The prosecuter is definatley a hottie. 😉
If I go with the mind set of innocent until proven guilty, so far nobody has proven the defenses story false.
Okay, current petulant teenager witness is amusing. She said different things at different times and the defense attorney is rather politely impeaching her testimony with depositions and the like. She is getting increasingly eye rolley. Best of all: that “what” in open court when the defense attorney said he would need several more hours to cross examine her. I wonder why the prosecution put her on since they had to know she could be impeached.
If your watching EST – that is the girl that was talking on his phone when Trayvon was shot.
It was PAINFUL watching this young lady (talk?) I was answering the questions for her. I feel sorry for the things people are going to say about her (already saying) testimony. I know she is nervous and may not be used to speaking in front of so many people where she is required to be articulate on a basic level. Oh well.
Rachel needs some thyroid function tests. She doesn’t have a fat neck, she has a goitre. Please don’t be unkind about her.
I have never posted any comment anywhere before and I have now entered my own full name. Would it be possible to remove my surname and just call me Anne S? Thanks very much.
the smoking gun has a story on this girl and her rather seemly character, she may not be believable tot he jury and her tweetes are very much like she speaks. i am betting she is basking in the glory of a trial and star witness status, have they brought up her lie in regards to the funeral?
They did bring up her lie bout not going to the wake because she was in the hospital. She said she didn’t want to see the body, or be around Trayvons family since she was the last person to speak with him.
I really don’t think she understands the gravity of her testimony. She also told the defense that she just blew off Crumps deposition, and didn’t take it seriously. 🙁
Did anyone else catch where rolled her eyes, and asked the defense attorney if he was listening? :/ eep!
How did this bimbo make it to grade 12????? Wonder how many kids she has by now. Gotta get me one of those Three Stooges haircuts. Mr. West is being incredibly patient. I would love to see what Juan Martinez would have done with this witness.
LOL @ “petulant teenager”…I think this poor girl would rather be anywhere else but in court, being called the star witness. I hope the prosecution explained to her that her accurate testimony is important, and that no one cares if she doesn’t speak the King’s English as long as she speaks clearly, and truthfully. I think she is showing her resentment of the defense challenging her statements, so I hope someone explains to her that it’s their JOB to do it, and to stop taking it personally.
BTW, I love how she said that she left out the word ‘cracker’ when telling her story to Trayvon’s father and girlfriend out of respect for the girlfriend-who I assume is white.
Question out to anyone – a tad off topic but – WHERE is Beth Karas ? Was the JA trial her last days. I did hear In Sessions reduced her hours down to 2 hours a day… but I was worried it was a draw between Jinkasuarus and Karas. I miss Beth !
Beth stated on her Facebook page (June 4th): “Today was my last day at In Session/HLN. I covered trials for 19 years across the country. It was a great run….Looking forward to the next adventure.” 🙁
That just SUCKS ! – To me, Beth seemed the less “emotional” one. Very professional & technical analysis’. I also think she was able to discern the facts of cases from the storylines & was reliable 99% of the time. ~ Bummer. Jinkasauraus is good too, but together you could get the whole of the case. Still keeping my fingers crossed another station will start a new concept show for us court watcher and hire Beth right up. I’m seriously concerned about watching “HLN-Sensational” for the rest of my days ! I miss Court TV. I mean someone dreams up a new & ridiculous premise for reality shows every 13 wks. [no offense to present co.] …but really what’s left to exploit next ? The Zombie Housewives of 3 Mile Island ? 🙂 ZH3MI has a ring to it.
JustUsForAll I know what you’re saying I liked Beth better also. According to her twitter page Jun 4, was her last day at HLN and In Session.
“I could hear grass”. Is that kinda like “I see dead people”. I’m glad he asked “what does wet grass sound like”. I’m sorry but I don’t think the prosecutor should have used this girl.
What does wet grass sound like? “wet…..leaf….”
I think the prosecution should ask for a lunch break so she can go smoke.
I just don’t think she has the vocabulary to describe creatively. I mean I can’t spell good anymore but you get the point most of the time. – How do you describe a “rustling sound against a microphone” in simple terms ? It’s not a crime to lack eloquence or intelligence. Fate put this girl her. Don’t know how this testimony will impact the case. I just don’t think being mean about her is nice but Defense probably wants to try to get her pissed. Probably won’t take long.
How does one hear grass, especially wet grass, since it was raining that night?
This witness does not want to be there and doesn’t appear to be very intelligent.
Every “Yes, sir” drips with bitchiness.
The new post for GZ is here… http://s17948.p858.sites.pressdns.com/2013/06/27/sidebar-rachel-jeantel-testimony-video/
Seriously, what a bitch this chick is!
I don’t know who I felt worse for…Rachel Jeantel or the prosecutor! I heard the folks on HLN make a lot of excuses for her saying, “well she’s a teenager, she didn’t want to be there, she was suffering from survivor’s guilt because she was the last one to talk to him, etc. Maybe one or all of those things were true but good grief…she could have at least opened her mouth while talking! Do you think she helped the prosecution? This whole thing has been about race, calling GZ a racist but TM was the one who called GZ the N word and cracker. So will folks call TM a racist now?
Blonde hispanic chic. Being questioned and answering in Spanish and “needing” a translator, especially after being asked what she responded in English, which she did. Why the fuck does chiquita need to give her testimony in Spanish when she understands English? Seriously, what the fuck?
JUST A FEW POINTS OF ORDER, PLEASE READ!!!!
Candace, I want you to be able to make your points. However, I feel like the points that you wish to make are getting lost because your comments come off as hostile. Try to assume that HERE, IN THIS PLACE, we are in a less hostile environment. That people on the other side are willing to listen. When one person, Ms Taylor or something similar if I remember correctly says things that seem offensive to you, consider that she may not know any better. It is often hard for people with different cultural backgrounds to accept the other person’s culture. Let’s say Saudi Arabian culture v. American culture. Most Americans would say theirs is best and most Saudis would disagree. Let’s try to look for middle ground. Most of the commenters here are way nicer people than I am. Give them a chance.
Also let’s not have black posters screamy about “WHITE PEOPLE” when they ask questions they sincerely want answers to. It may be offensive, but we could all learn if we answer politely or ignore the offensive question entirely.
Same story for white people, let’s not make generalizations about “black people” being one way or another. Things were going along well but now, we are not listening anymore. TRY TO HEAR THE OPPOSING VIEW.
FInally, I have not researched this case like I did Casey Anthony because I didn’t start paying attn. to either one until they came on TV. I am now starting my research. Meanwhile, PLEASE TRY TO LIMIT YOU CONVERSATIONS TO THE TRIAL. THAT IS THINGS OFFERED AS EVIDENCE and not something “you heard.”
For example, Candace has made MANY MANY posts today about Trayvons “criminal record.” My best understanding is that he does not have one, but that he has run amok of the law on a few occasions and was suspected of burglary but never charged. The Miami Dade School System is so packed with little criminals that THEY HAVE THEIR OWN POLICE FORCE like a major college would. Schools have to report student arrests to the government so they do anything they can NOT to arrest students up to and including starting their own law enforcement to deal with juvenile delinquency in house. SOURCE MIAMI HERALD: TRAYVON CRIMINAL HISTORY. See link: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
This is an example of a path we do not really need to go down. His prior criminal history or lack there of has no bearing on the case. It reeks of “blaming the victim” in my opinion. While mentioning your opinion that Travyon is “a thug” is fine ONCE repeatedly making similar comments is shit stirring.
Let’s try not to drag in all the hype and look at ONLY WHAT IS PRESENTED TO THE JURY AND WHAT THE LAWS OF FLORIDA STATE.
We can use this case as an opportunity to understand the opinions of our fellow man, or we can just all through poo at each other. I am not going to babysit grown women/men. Examine what you want to portray here and knock yourself out. I hope you choose to show your best selves.
I’m for throwing poo.
No shit, Sherlock!
Dear God, I pray I never have to be in position charged with a crime, and tried before a jury of my peers, but most of all, heaven forbid – I need a witness in my behalf who might be the only person in the living world who could save me. For the fate worse than that of my own – could certainly be the scrutiny my witness must endure. ~ Then who shall come forth to aid us, lest’ we be either the accused or god forbid at worst, the victim ? ~ x Blind Justice.