Good Morning my trial followers. I am up very late. I think it is around 4:30 or so here so forgive me if I sleep in.
I would ask that you do not speak negatively AT ALL about the jurors. They have dedicated nearly six months of their lives to this trial. I WILL NOT TOLERATE JURY BASHING HERE.
Also, I would like to thank @croakerqueen for her videos throughout the trial. She labored hard for the cause.. and donations to her should be done if she has a way to accept them.
I also understand the anger. For me spreading the hatred for Jodi, spreads hate. The motto of this board has been #compassion2013. It was meant for the gossip boards. They didn’t kill anyone (yet).
I know this is different and we all need to vent. You are welcome to do that here.But I do ask you to consider, do you want to contribute to the wave of hate? Or have something else in your heart? I dunno. Most of y’all believe in God right? Show me how Godly people react….
If it makes you feel better Jodi will have no interaction with others. and she is already on that level NOW. She was moved to closed custody the first shot Joe had and will not be leaving it.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/The-truth-behind-Jodi-Arias-grand-plans-for-prison-208611471.html
For all of us… Sound the bugle !
UP & Adam – ARIAS !! – Open your eyes, stand up straight, legs & feet together, knock that smile of your block… and…oh yeah, Wipe that GD war paint off your face – You’re the New Fish – NOW ! [maybe now We can get ‘some’ work done]
After Dark announced the split last night: It was 8 to 4 but NO clues which way.
Hi JustUS:
I watched After Dark and they said the jury was split, 8 for death, 4 for life. I felt better knowing that it wasn’t just one holdout.
I just hope that the family will decide to make a deal with the judge, to give JA LWOP, and forget about the DP. Travis’ family has already been through so much, and for them to have to give up potentially more months of their lives, with no guarantee of the DP, would be so tragic. It’s taken such a toll on them already. If those jurors, who sat through all of the months of testimony, saw the autopsy photos, and heard all of her lies, couldn’t make a unanimous decision, I doubt that a new jury will.
I wish that the jury had come back with a unanimous decision, rather than no decision at all.
Morning Nancy, Any quiet time is good for downward spirals. I imagine there may even be splits in the family, too. It’s good to read the links TT posts because it shapes a lot of the discussions here. Life [w/o parole] in AZ will be no white collar FED PEN that’s for sure. I have never been a pro-DP person. C.Anthony & this case shook my foundation. – But then I think of my own 2 beautfiul brothers & the crazy women they ended up running from. I don’t know if I could sit by on a life sentence if one of them murdered my own like that. Hell, I’ve had 6 sister-in-laws over the years & only 1 of them (new) remains. (men… suckers for beauty !)
Hi JustUs. I understand the need for revenge, and the desire to exact the same punishment to her, that she meted out to Travis. BUT, I think that a lot of people feel that when the murderer is dead, they will have some peace, and think that they will finally be vindicated.
I believe that psychologists have shown that the victims family never really finds that closure, even after the murderer is dead. Their beloved family member is still gone, and their grieving never really goes away. It gets a little easier as the years go by, but it never really stops. I’m sure that right now, Travis’ siblings want blood, but when you think of the costs to them financially, in their relationships, in their jobs, etc., when is enough going to be enough? Believe me, I wish that the jury had come back with a death sentence, and I don’t even believe in the DP! My heart just aches for Travis’ family, and I wish that their pain could start to lessen, they could grieve his loss, and start to get back to their lives. 5 years of this torment is long enough IMO.
I think that you’re right; LWOP in an Arizona prison is going to be no Club Fed. Jodi is dellusional if she thinks she’s going to be teaching other prisoners Spanish or ASL; starting a book club; or starting a recycling campaign. She’ll be in 23 hr/day lockdown for probably 3-5 years, before she even begins to have more freedom, which would still be extremely limited..
Provactive thoughts for today. – Wonder if the dismissed or alternates will come forward now, since they wouldn’t suffer reprocussions of S/Verdict ? If anyone gets a bite on that – Post us!! – Which # was the lady juror w /the 2-color hair ? Bet ya’ she’s ready ! Speculating now, the hold-outs may have been some men too. (though I thought at first – could have been the women) Maybe the “women that were crying were the alternates. I would have been. – Imagine – Different jurors may have had different outcome ! Luck of the Draw – Wow !
The lady with the two color hair was juror #5. She was the first juror dismissed for some reason. She showed up in court right after she was dismissed.
End of this chapter with a bit of epilogue:
1) Alexander family will perhaps decide to get on with their lives and agree to LWOP;
2) Nurmi and Wilmott get out from under their burden and JA has new rep; (i must say, though, that i was a little perterbed at Wilmott’s shit-eating grin post hung-though i guess that grin maybe was really for her thinking about her new freedom)
3) Jurors have my greatest admiration and SYMPATHY for what will be revealed to them from behind the scenes of the jury room-all that transpired that they were not aware of; I pray they do not have recurrent issues of anxiety or guilt or their own ptsd for what they have already gone through, let alone what has yet to be revealed to them. I think that each of them likely did their very best to be earnest and hold true to their feelings and beliefs. Remember what they say about opinions….(are like assholes……)
4) JA is starting a new chapter and it will not be like the past 5 years at all! No more lights, camera, action.
Dear Docwall, I imagine there will be wounds from the war. Actually – Arias will find a worm hole – parasites always do. It will be interesting to see if she gets NEW counsel. Oh, god have you thought about THAT ? I bet there is slew of attorneys closing doors and packing the kids, wife and dog as we speak… Lol ! Oh that felt good to laugh ! Sorry to think we might not be able to hear from Mr. Martinez or maybe others (?) while this ‘nightmare’ is legally not over till the Jodi takes off her mask and reveals she is has the same dozen masks on as before.
time will reveal how much The Secret is gonna help JA…………………oh, that’s right, it’s not a secret, just MAGICAL THINKING
…oh the secret. Not such a secret now is it. ~ Call me old fashioned but the wisdom of – A Brain, A Heart, The Courage and A Home were my guides… oh yea’ and ToTo, too. 🙂
I’m still not sure I’ve chosen a view on the death penalty. On one hand, its hypocritical to kill someone to prove killing is wrong. Double edge sword, but on the otherhand? God said an eye for an eye. Who’s to say?
Well God’s been literally mum on the subject for quite awhile – So I guess it’s left up to Just Us, how clever is that. 🙂
ooh, I see what you did there, but Seriously… ha ha
My views on death penalty is that we need it because there are people out there, the John Wayne Gacys of the world, that are so irredeemable and such a danger to society that we cannot allow for anything else.
I keep thinking of Jodi ten years from now, when she’s a blip in our memory, and no one cares. I think of when all she has left is the family that she dragged through the mud and seems to care so little about…, when prison has taken its toll,,, That Jodi makes me lean toward mercy.
Hi Seriously, For the record I didn’t mean “I” was tha-a-at clever. but, well…(ha) I imagine we will see an interview or 2 someday. I hope I’m not visually impaired by then ~ but I predict we may just see a broken women with crazier eyes. (for a brief moment… I feel the weight of this tragedy & what if anything made this young women capable of this) …it’s only teenage wasteland. – Damn those counter-culture kids – with all that peace stuff. ~ No more daisies stuck in gun barrels left – just guns, raunchy public sex and violence to go around. We’ll count on the wisdom, kindness and good sense for a peaceful society to stop the rest.
In one of the interviews (I think by the “hater” journalist) when asked if she would be safe to be around if ever free again Jodi said, “if I’m not abused and attacked, etc” (paraphrasing). In other words, NO.
The problem with continuing to seek the DP is that God doesn’t want her, and Satan doesn’t want the competition.
“Like!”
Although I believe – legally – the death penalty was (and will be) the appropriate punishment for the heinous nature of her crime, I also subscribe to Gandi’s saying that “An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind”
I feel sorry for the jury. I’m sure they wanted to deliver a verdict. But – they did deliver the most important verdicts – Murder 1 with aggravating circumstances – that qualified her for the DP in the first place. They could have found that the circumstances of the murder did not merit death! She got the maximum they could have given her! The Alexander family did get the result they wanted. Juan fought hard to get what he got. JA will not form a book club, initiate recycling, or teach sign language in prison. She will spend the rest of her natural life in prison if the prosecution and the family will agree to LWOP and forego another sentencing phase. No more makeup, hair dye, no more FREEDOM! That’s good, imho.
If you watch this video regarding “Life for Jodi in Perryville,” done by a former Deputy Warden for N Mex/AZ (you will feel much better. She has no idea. This was pretty eye-opening. Evidently AZ is the worse state to be in Prison for Life…
I have watched this a couple times. It would scare me beyond measure if I lived in AZ and even considered committing a crime! Not that I would, but going to this prison would be worse than death. I noticed that several times he made reference to the prisoners going ‘crazy’, and even suicides, due to the harshness there. Well, prison isn’t supposed to be a country club, but this seems to be the worst of the worst. In Illinois, our prisons are not anywhere near this severe. In many regards they should be more in line with AZ’s prison system. Might reduce some crime in some fashion.
A few prisoner have died at Perryville due to correction officers’ neglect & abuse. One was a woman who was left outdoors in the “cage” w/o water in 107 degree temp. No officer was punished. This will be no “Oh Holy Night” sing-a-long for Jodi.
This portrayal sounds worse than death. Sounds like she will rot in jail rather than in hell. A just result, imho. The jury may have second thoughts on their decision once they are privy to all the facts they were denied while deliberating. However, we can’t hold that against them, and I hope they don’t carry too much guilt. They came up with the correct verdict of Murder 1 with premeditation and extreme cruelty.
ok..I’m no bleeding heart, but this portrayal of prison life sounds extremely cruel-can it really be that bad? Punishment is one thing, but torture is another…no?
I know! Hearing this actually makes me feel bad for her, something I never thought was possible. I’m surprising myself feeling this way, because I was one who wanted her to get the DP, mostly so she would be in solitary confinement. I had no idea that that’s how she will be living her life even with Life sentence. With Death sentence, at least there would be an end to it eventually. This, IMO, is way worse than death. Please don’t bash me anyone, because after hearing it told this way I would feel sorry for anyone having to exist in such a manner, no matter what they have done. As cammierari said, this is absolute torture. I would rather have death if it were me, and if the above information is indeed the way it really is, I think that Jodi will want death too. I cannot even imagine…
I just went and did a search for maximum security Perryville Prison, and I found a lot more stuff on it. It sounds as horrific as can be. Just awful!
Scroll down in this article I found on http://www.wptv.com to read more about what life will be like for her.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/jodi-arias-sentencing-live-video-stream-what-life-will-be-like-behind-bars-for-jodi-arias
I know some have been critical of this video, the man who made it & whatever motives underlie it. I rather appreciate it, hearing what I perceive to be frankness & sober compassion. It’s not crude, but point-blank. There is compassion in honesty. i don’t hear any wish to deceive in the voice. To the degree that any of us were duped by Arias’ most recent performances or are left with variously confused impressions about what lies ahead, this video corrals the horses, reinstates a baseline of reality? I think the man is right when he suggests that the most humane thing would be for some advocate or member of the defense machine to give her a heads up in no uncertain terms. Perhaps, they have. Yet, in the shenanigans of the last days, I can certainly see how no real opportunity presented itself. Her mother, too, (who may or may not have started her 3-day weekend a bit early?) might need or want a heads up, however painful this would undoubtedly be. Whether or not they’d absorb the information is another matter. The reality is stunning. As were the realities of the murder. I’m not sure that one should necessarily follow the other by way of the conditions described, but this is where we are? Makes one wonder if justice is truly exactable, & if so how? The Alexanders must feel in the throes of this.
Isn’t that the question that looms large in all of our heads ?, “When is, – What is going to make Jodi Arias actually stick her nose in her mess, take a big, long whiff of it, look up & say OMG look what have I done ?” Such a crude awakening would have been in order, yes, but do we think it would have mattered ? Guess it’s too late to give her the 50cent tour. Now she’ll have her own reality, “reality” show to deal with.
By the way, do they keep Murder 1 felons apart from those who are in prison for stuff like drug use, etc.? I would think they would be more “dangerous”, and would be kept more isolated.
I have watched this trial since the beginning. I cant imagine how the members of the jury have felt throughout the months dealing with all of this. I am guessing some major fatigue, so while I was hoping for a decision, I definitely understand why the jury came back hung. I am from Massachusetts and never thought I would be for the death penalty until the Jeffrey Curley murder happened several years ago. That did it for me. It completely changed my viewpoint. That being said, I can’t imagine actually being someone who would decide that for a fellow human being. While I personally think JA deserves that, I respect the fact that that was a difficult decision for them. What I don’t respect AT ALL is the way JA takes absolutely NO RESPONSILBILITY. She trashes the victim, the jury, and whomever else doesn’t believe her. I saw part of an interview she gave where the interviewer asked a tough question and she replied, “Oh, I didn’t know you were a hater.” Gmafb…….
What I really wonder is how the jury will feel now when they go home and can google all the crap about JA that they didn’t know about while serving on the jury.
You said it so much better than I did in my post.
rjt25……Jodi has never taken responsibility for any of her actions, and I suspect, she never will. She will continue to blame others for her poor decisions and the situation she now finds herself in. If JA had commited her brutal slaughtering of Travis in Massachusetts, there would be NO death penalty on the table for the jury to consider- there would have been no deliberations over aggravating factors. The worst sentence that JA would receive for her Murder 1 conviction would be LWOP!
I’m surprised it was 8 for death and 4 life. I thought it would have been more for death. Now don’t get me wrong. I love Juan and no way did I think JA should have got anything less than death row. If I had anyone fighting for me in a court of law, I would want it to be Juan. All during the trial so many attorneys on TV would be critical of Juan but I would always stand up for him. I understood his passion in fighting for a just cause. But, having said all this, I think there are going to be some jurors come forward and say they were very uncomfortable with his approach with some of defense witnesses. I hope that after learning everything we know about this case, they’ll be able to live with themselves. They’re going to feel like such fools to learn how she manipulated them.
So I couldn’t figure out why JA was crying yesterday at the hung jury. I think I have figured it out. She has basked in the glow of the public attention for 5 months now and all of that ended yesterday. She’s in her little cell, she’s probably due another bath this week, and she gets an hour of exercise today. No media cameras, although I’m certain the prison has plenty, her family has certainly gone back home, Donovan can’t call or visit, and I don’t care anymore what happens to her. I am satisfied that she has met the enemy and it is she.
I think JW and Nurmi warned JA that if the jury came back as a hung jury, that lil media blitz she did could come back to bite her in the butt. But JA of course, knows more than her attorney’s and went forward with the interviews. JA is surely aware, her smug, non remorseful interviews will seal her fate in the end, if not DP, then Life with NO PAROLE! In my humble opinion, that is why I think she was crying, it was for herself as usual…
But the foreman said he wanted to visit her in jail.
……………conjugal visit, perhaps?…………… 🙂
Beth Karas [In Sessions] just said it’s highly likely Judge Stephens will NOT allow Nurmi & Wilmott off the case [for next couple months] into the second sentencing phase but we should expect a continuance to be filed – pushing back the July date. Beth talked so fast I couldn’t get it all – but said the “new jury” should not be that difficult to find – many folks there did NOT follow this case. She said that certain facts [for Prosecution] of Premeditated M1 will probably not have to be presented but will include the crime itself, the scene, the ME’s reports, etc. – Jodi’s DV defense will probably come in again too. Per Beth, the new jury would probably not have difficulties accepting the conviction & the cruelty decision as it stands in order to proceed. (best I could hear + type)
JustUs, Having never seen a penalty phase retry before, I’ll be interested (after a big rest) to watch how this all works. Unsure as to whether I’d prefer current DT to carry on or a new one to come in. Don’t want Arias to gain any particular advantage either way. God forbid some private crackerjack team enters the picture pro bono (for profile & resume building purposes) after having scrutinized whatever failings of the 1st. Wonder, however, should the current DT continue, how they would go about reining in their client… lay down the law (so to speak)… put her behavior under contract? Curious, of course, how Arias will manifest herself in the relative blackout. Wonder if she’ll discover imperceptible little rends in the no interview rule? Maybe I should say I not if, but how long it will take her & what rends she’ll find…
Say this from perspective of knowing certain things are firmly in place (conviction), but not wanting any possibility of 2nd hang up & Life w/ Parole (but the judge wouldn’t go there, would she?) Although, there can be an appeal of the guilt phase verdict, no, after the initial trial is complete?
Jane – As I know you will back-scroll when you get back – I just heard speculation – if the Prosecution would put a plea out, Jodi would probably have to revoke all pending and future appeals in exchange Life w/o parole for no DP. Doubt “The Secret” would allow her to dream of anything but her walking thru floating butterflies in fields of wild flowers. She will certainly need her right-brain imagination and her dabble in Zen-like thinking to get past the dingy & the grey & the cold blue steel. (Never kill another in vain ‘least you pay the price)
…buy, JustUs, would Aria accept a L w/o P plea agreement at this stage? Remember the mean, aberrant plea document (which I swear she wrote, not Nurmi), detailing why she wouldn’t plead for anything worse than 2nd degree (I think it was). That, I think, was sort of a rough draft rehearsal for the PowerPoint – as, in it, she diatribes on about the life style she will be requiring in order to do all the things she’s so good at doing… and, donchano, anything worse that 2nd simply iprovides unsatisfactory lifestyle! Did you watch the AZ prison video, which nobody likes but me? Talk about needing “Zen-like thinking to get past the dingy, the grey & The Cold Blue Steel.” (Your next novel: Butterflies & Blue Steel)
“…buy, JustUs…” What does this mean: Buy Justice? By Just Us? Is it a riddle. O, …but, JustUs…
(I give up.)
Riddle: What do you get when you cross a North American country with a poke between the but(tocks)?………………………………….a Canada goose!…..O, but, Jane…I hope I did it Just Us! It’s late, I’m punchy, I’m going to bed……..Bye, Bye
🙂 🙂 ! (I’d like to borrow that, but (to confess) I’m a dual, & one must be ever so tactful. God forbid I should lose (among other wondrous blessings) my medical (& I say that w/ utmost seriousness.)
8 to 4. There were 8 men and 4 women. Did this split down gender lines? Does anybody know which 8 favored death?
some pudits say the death penalty should be for serial murderers. I feel that if they waited another week to arrest her she would have been one. I think she was unraveling that july and was packing up to eliminate matt and darryl, they knew she went to mesa. Darryl had grandpas stolen dvd player so he knew about burglary too
I agree. I think the only reason she didn’t kill again was because she didn’t get the chance.
kh
I completely agree. Arrested w/ her car packed w/ gun, knives? Her discordant composure & aplomb following the 1st murder? Her composure & aplomb now? Shares not a few traits w/ Andrew Cunanan (seductive, narcissistic, role-shifter, preoccupied w/her physical/sexual allure, goal of lifestyle gained through association, glasses-on-glasses-off personas… capacity to kill.)
I wonder if any of the jurors have seen jodi’s interviews post conviction yet? Come to think of it, if I was an ex juror I probably wouldn’t even be turning on my TV right now.
kh
Hln showing clips of juror #18 from good morning america. Wasnt there a song two out of three aint bad? I guess the jury letting her have some cake..for a couple more months. Im begining to think trials shouldnt be televised or that we shouldnt get all the extra info that the jury never sees that way we cant go nuts over the verdicts. We here at TTs know way more than most of the pundits do about most aspects of the case.
Jury Foreman is on good morning america doing an interview!
………………Zervakos said the 32-year-old defendant simply did not fit his image of a murderer. “When you look at a young woman and you think of the crime, and then you see the brutality of the crime, it just doesn’t wash,” he said. “It’s very difficult to divest yourself from the personal, from the emotional part of it.”
Did not fit his image of a murderer??? OK, that’s it. No more TV for me!
kh
WTF??
Sounds like he was focused on the bjs instead of the knife…
I’m w/ you, khintx. Even if kneejerk/hysterical on my part, i must, at this point, preserve my own sanity. They got all the way to penalty phase & the foreperson, now, comes out w/ impressionistic view that leads one to wonder how guilt, premeditation, aggravation was ever unanimously decided?!!!
Yet, as day & comments have progressed, I begin to see that , maybe, what he tried to express was that, maybe, what 4 jurors considered mitigating was Travis’s role in crazy, escalating sick relationship. I can see that they would see this if this is what they saw. Still, that Arias did not look like a murderer… ?
Here is the thing for me, Jane: one could take snippets of alot of things someone said/texted/did and, based on the challenge to use as supporting, then they could try to convince another of their “truth”. I feel strongly that nothing presented ever showed that Travis abused Jodi. She had 5 years to make up this story and i have NEVER been convinced that he : 1) had anal sex with her; 2) forced sex on her; 3) physically abused her; 4) used her as a “one-way-street” (they perhaps used each other sexually, and i have to say that i think she was after the trophy, while he just wanted to have orgasms); 5) had ANY pedophilic tendencies;
I was thinking last nite about the crime scene photos and began to wonder if the braids and brazilian were utilized to decrease any likelihood that JA left hairs behind….I just do not see any substantial evidence to believe such about Travis. I think that perhaps, we as human beings, want to believe that everything she said could not be fabricated, but fail to see evidence to the contrary.
The two most incriminating Travis pieces of evidence, i think, were the phone sex (but my guy could have said the same thing to me and we do NOT do the Hershey Highway) and his final text to her (but God knows what she might have done to deserve his wrath—–like maybe telling him about the tape/tapping into his personal online accounts, etc.) I just don’t see him as anything but a horny Mormon guy who found an outlet at times, but was trying to “do good”, and who, unfortunately, played with fire.
I agree w/ you completely, docwall. I’m trying (w/ little success) to fathom what the jurors saw as mitigators (while trying also to be diplomatic as per TT’s request, before dumping her “blind date jury foreman boyfriend” 🙂 ).
I, personally, could never consider Travis’ behavior – as defined & framed by Arias – as a mitigating factor. I think she bold face lied & manufactured stories after the fact in addition to recording surreptitiously, creating false documents & manipulating electronic stuff, when Travis was alive. In fact, I don’t dare even say half of what I really think she did for fear of sounding too paranoid & over the top. I absolutely DO NOT believe that Travis abused Arias.
I’m just very aware that I had access to a whole lot more information than the jury did & think it’s possible that their picture of Travis is significantly different than mine.I can conceive of their seeing Travis as culpable and considering his culpability at the penalty stage. They may not have done any such thing for all I know!! End of the day, I have no idea why the 8 – 4 split, why 4 jurors went against DP, whether they perceived mitigators &, if so, what the mitigators could possibly have been.
Loved you post!
docwall, I meant to say “can conceive of them seeing Travis as culpable IN CERTAIN RESPECTS”… They did, after all, convict Arias of 1st degree premeditated aggravated murder.
Wait til Arias gets a load of this! The supreme, fantastic self-satisfaction of it all! What extraordinary reinforcement of her ability to seduce!
I feel for the Alexander family at this moment. What a twist to wake up to.
I never even considered/foresaw the possibility of such a response, least of all from the mouth of the foreperson.
Would a DT not see in this more than a sliver of hope upon appeal?
The minute I heard him say that I thought back to the jury question @ Where were his roommates the night he was killed. Still they all voted for 1sr degree premeditatied murder and 8 voted for felony murder, too.
i thought long and hard about the roomate ?, too……….but based on interviews with Flores that i read, i think they were not buddies, minded their own business, and she was very careful to know who was where when she carried out her act. (to women, a strange car might have alerted us, but she maybe didn’t even park at the house in reality, and, love you guys as a group, but i think that your gender pays much less attention to nuance and detail than do women)
I am certainly not saying I believe it. But what the foreman said made me flashback to the jury question. He also talked about how small she was to do that much violence.
I’ve always had concerns about Jodi’s size and her being able to do this. That is why I entertain the Edgarrrrr conspiracy theories. That said, his theory doesn’t wash either. I can’t imagine the adrenaline being enough for her to kill him. But she says she did… And barring any evidence of anyone else being there, it appears to be true.
I was napping today when HLN was running the police interviews. I woke up when she was describing the ninja killing lie. It was almost like she was describing herself… she had a knife… etc.
Also, I think the no prior criminal history thing would have been a mitigator for me.. Just sayin…
Hey TT, she has been in prison and maybe a little smaller; as well, I know that I could have done that physically now (135#) and also when i was 120#. Moving body? No problem…….all the blood means no friction…..easy to pull his body up the tile……remember that things are usually what they sseem to be…….she totally did this but did not admit until the pictures showed up, and even then…. MY CONDOLENCES ON THE LOSS OF YOUR (WEAK AND POSSIBLY WAY TOO INTO RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS) BOYFRIEND lol
When you see Jodi stand-up full size, as when she was standing & moving in front of the jury, “pleading,” I could see how imposing she is. I do believe in adrenaline strength. However, Travis appears to have been immediately struck down, unaware. He was severely weakened from the *first *strike with the knife, quickly losing blood, difficulty breathing. Immediately in shock. And Agony.
HLN isn’t my favorite, but, they did a reenactment showing a women of jodi’s size and weight – dragging and a dummy of Travis’ size and weight – and placing it in the shower. It wasn’t easy, but, she did it. Factoring in a slimy, bloody tile floor, and a high adrenaline flow – I believe Jodi was capable.
In 62 seconds?
smitsa……I believe it was Ryan Burns who testified that JA worked-out, and was very physically fit and strong for her size. So, I too, think JA was quite capable of dragging him into the shower./ TT……Juan seemed to believe that the killing and dragging was closer to 2 minutes, which is why he had the 2 minutes of silence for Travis during his closing arguments. Don’t go getting all “conspiracy theorist” on us! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
And, remember this happened 5 years ago. Notice the difference in Jodi’s size then and now. She had more meat on her bones and was most likely, quite a bit stronger. She looks frail and worn now.
On another note, we must consider every word Jodi said. She has the ability to weave the truth in with her lies. She kept talking about a rope. Who knows, she could have used it to drag him. Remember, she “appeared” to have no shoes on in the shower photo. Her shoes were probably too slippery, therefore affecting her traction on the floor. Who knows.
His name is William Zervakos and he is getting a lot of twitters who already hate him which is so wrong!
No one should be surprised by the hung-jury-status. Most viewers of the case knew the prosecution failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, which is required.
Um Jan, JA WAS convicted of first degree murder with the majority of jurors deeming it pre-meditated, based on the evidence. They also found that there were aggravating circumstances in this case, thus leaving JA with one of 2 penaltys: Life or DP; the penalty phase was about mitigating factors………reasons to let JA get life instead of DP. The case WAS proven, what has happened is that they jury coould not unanimously agree upon the penalty.
Perhaps, none should be surprised a hung jury outcome. But for the reason you suggest… I disagree & feel the progressive outcomes of the proceedings prove something spectacularly different.
Jan, Jan, Jan, – The few times I’ve read your posts I wonder exactly what part of TT are you not reading. Nevermind TT’s site – rewind your DVR or goggle it or whatever because in case you were NOT there… JODI ARIAS was CONVICTED as Premeditated Murderess in the FIRST DEGREE. – Then, if that’s not convincing enough…Look up aggravating factors and find next to her name… comitted with CRUELTY. – The only thing that did NOT happen to Jodi Arias THUSFAR – is they will have to go back and re-try ONLY the part where she waits for years to be euthanised like an old dog. Otherwise she’s now going to be in a Cage the rest of her life ! GET IT ? ~ I can understand if you aren’t happy or disagree with the verdict BUT I assure you, Ms. Corey this a legal fact on the paper it is printed on & Yes, those documents actually exist on Planet “ef_ng” Earth. If you want to put your head in the sand – go out west, there is plenty of it in Arizona.
Just letting anyone know – HLN just announced the Jury Foreman is about to speak out (probably via phone) Gotta’ go out pretty soon – try to check in to update – If anyone else gets his statement if I don’t let TT know. Sure it will run around the HLN rotation. (Head Loop News)
He spoke this morning on good morning america. Here is the link http://gma.yahoo.com/jodi-arias-jury-foreman-18-days-testimony-hurt-135235474–abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
Here is the article:
“We couldn’t allow ourselves to be emotional on the stand,” jury foreman William Zervakos said today on “Good Morning America.” “We couldn’t allow ourselves to show emotion [but] it was a different story when we got back into the jury room.”
Some of the most emotional moments during the five-month trial came over the 18 days when Arias, 32, took the stand and described her relationship with Travis Alexander, the ex-boyfriend whom she was convicted last week of stabbing and shooting to death in 2008.
Arias pled for her life also during the sentencing phase of the trial, but Zervakos says her long stint on the stand didn’t help her case, especially when she was cross-examined by the prosecutor.
“I think 18 days hurt her. I think she was not a good witness…I think the way the prosecutor was with her, he’s known for an aggressive style. I think it’d be difficult for anybody,” Zervakos said. “I don’t think I want to sit on the stand for 18 days.
“We’re charged with going in presuming innocence, right, but she was on the stand for so long. I don’t think it did her any good,” Zervakos added. “There were so many contradicting stories.”
Zervakos, for one, believed Arias’ story that she was abused in the relationship, but not that she killed Alexander in self-defense.
“I’m very sure in my own mind that she was mentally and verbally abused,” he said. “Now is that an excuse? Of course not. Does it factor into the decisions that we make? It has to.”
“When I looked in the courtroom for the first time and looked who the defendant was, it’s hard to put that in perspective when you look at a young woman and think of the crime and then think of the brutality of the crime,” Zervakos said. “It just doesn’t wash so it’s very difficult to divest yourself from the personal, from the emotional part of it.”
Zervakos says he and other jurors struggled greatly with seeing Alexander’s family every day in the courtroom.
“Until you’re face-to-face with people that have gone through something like that, it’s something you really can’t put into words,” he said on “GMA.” “I’m six feet away from somebody talking about a horrendous loss. If you can’t feel that, then you have no emotion, no soul.”
I just watched his interview on the GMA website and it was extremely unsatisfying. Among other things, he said that she didn’t “look” like a murderer. I would hope that someone elected foreperson of a jury would know to not judge on appearance.
I’m heartsick over what you post. Not watching anything & must head to work. Heartsick on too many levels if the foreperson said this.
sadly, I often find when I hear from jurors on the cases I follow that they disappoint me. I’m not bashing or belittling, but often times, they seem to focus on things that *I* find…peripheral I guess is the word. I also don’t think the foreperson disclosed how he voted – for death or for life- and that’s the thing I wanted to know the most.
yesterday my phone battery died and i didnt hear nonverdict til late last night. At first was angry then shocked then saddened for the family. But as i read the comments i realized that this wasnt as terrible as first thought. This will allow Juan to present her after verdict antics to the new jury as evidence..and all you girls get to watch JUAN in action again. The saddest part is there is another family waiting for justice that has been held up by jodi case that has to wait longer. The young dead cop with a new baby from ’07 is still in the wings waiting on jodi. As much as i wanted death i would have settled for life just to close this case. I hate to say it like this but Alexander family are strong they have waited this long a couple more months and will finally be over..no matter what new jury says at least will be life. If jury could say with or without parole we might have had a real verdict. Lifers cant kill and the death people afraid for parole chances held this up.
Yeah I don’t understand why a jury can have the responsibility of giving the death penalty, but cannot give life without parole. I don’t personally care if she’s given death or not, I just don’t want her out on the streets ever again.
In other news, I’m washing my soul of this case by watching a marathon of recorded mindless Say Yes to the Dress episodes. My sanity needs a rest from JVM’s screeching.
Popcorn…..Did you know that Robin(the blonde) from SYTTD Atlanta was on HLN’s After Dark jury a couple of times? Seems you really can’t get away from this case!
I didn’t know! I love Robin. I can still get away from the case if I just turn off HLN, right? hahahaha. Today I’m watching SYTTD New York episodes, so hopefully they are 100% completely Jodi/NG/JVM/HLN free!!!
P&V – I may regret admiting this here… but that is the one “reality?” show I really lo-o-ove. I love wedding dresses. Even got my husband to sit through a few. 🙂 Forgot all about it. Need to shake this off one – Good Idea !
I don’t know why I like it so much, I’m not even a girly kind of girl… I think it’s because there’s no manufactured drama, and everyone involved is generally a nice person. I love seeing everyone happy at the end with their perfect dresses. It’s a show about making women feel good about themselves. It’s a nice break from all the Real Housewives and of course the REAL reality shows like this trial.
JanCorey – 12 jurors found premeditation. 7 of those 12 also found felony murder also. All 12 of them found the murder cruel. This nonverdict was NOT because JM didnt prove this case. This verdict was due to the MORAL IMPLICATIONS of taking someones life. While some of us have no qualms handing death to jodi we have to respect the personal beliefs of those we dont agree with. Its hard but we do it thats OUR system in action
However, steve………….. any juror whose personal beliefs stopped him/her from handing down the DP should not have been on the jury in the first place!
Yes, Bobbi, I’m confused, too. Not at all jury-bashing, just trying to understand. Seems to me that to pledge onto a death penalty case requires being, baseline, at a basic point of personal clarity. A fence-rider could not, in good conscience, sign on? So, if 1st degree is proven, if premeditation is proven on top of that (w/ majority seeing felony, also) &, on top of that, aggravation is proven, then the jury accepts the prosecution view? A clear, upfront aspect of the prosecution package (this being a DP case) is that, if ALL prongs are proven, DP is necessarily earned? UNLESS one or more compelling mitigators are presented? And this is where I’m personally stumped. I, for one (an obstinate ol’ goat), am not prepared to prematurely accept that jurors responded purely to mitigators. Perhaps they did & well enough (though I didn’t see anything of substance myself.) But WHAT IF jurors considered the fact of her humanness as a decisive mitigator?! The fact of her humanness is a profound reason to question the morality of the DP overall, but not a mitigator once one has pledged onto a DP case. Not saying this is what occurred (I clearly wouldn’t know), but a person balking at the DP on the grounds of a convicted murderer’s humanness should not be on a DP jury? Pondering the possibility that this happened is a legit part of seeing the full picture? I cannot, for the life of me, imagine which other of the proposed mitigators was at all compelling. I’ll be interested to learn.
I believe the instructions said they could consider any mitigating factor they felt existed as found in the evidence presented during the whole trial. Obviously, jurors felt strongly that there were compelling mitigating factors that I personally don’t see, which doesn’t matter cuz I wasn’t on the jury. kh
Great post, once again, Jane………….couldn’t have said it better myself…….wouldn’t have tried either…..don’t have your way with words. Premediation was proven, aggravating factors were proven, so why no DP verdict? Surely, the jury would have known that JA was human (tongue in cheek) at the beginning of the trial. They knew they wouldn’t be squashing a spider – (perhaps injecting a black-widow, though) – they would be dealing with a human being. (the jury may still be out on that one!) Some of the comments by the jury foreman (posted by other people) are rather disturbing, to say the least! I can’t imagine what mitigating factors were used to offset the aggravators. Age, “beauty”, sex, family…….who knows? I was not particularly surprised by the hung jury, but I was surprised by the 8 to 4 split. I thought there would be more on the side of the DP. (maybe 11-1 or 10-2) I guess we will have to wait to hear from the jurors, when, or if, they give their interviews.
In light of what the foreperson has, now, come out & said (re: difficulty conceiving of her as a murderer), then, it would seem that the jurors could have applied mitigator(s), which they perceived throughout, yet which did NOT (curiously) deter them from deciding on premeditated, aggravated murder in the 1st? A retro-activeness that I find hard to understand. But, so be it. As you say: they were jurors; I was not. Just trying to understand.
Jane pardon my anxiousness to read from the top to bottom. HLN is showing snippets of the Foreman and believe it or not he paritally believed that she WAS submitted to physical & verbal abuse from Travis… but he said that did not justify the crime. Sooo, I understand – the jury pool “could” impose the DP IF they feel the case warrants death. So I guess <- the short of it – 4 jurors DID find something mitigating. Again – they wouldn't have the 50 gal. tub of sh#t we had to wade through. Just because they said they could – doesn't mean they would. [ what bugged me – "don't do that to MY family…"] [Wilmott nullified the jury with lies do not mean you should kill her…]
JustUs, I may take some heat for this, but here goes… if what the foreperson is trying to express is 1) that, yes, they all agreed that, as proven by the prosecution, Arias DID commit premeditated, aggravated 1st degree murder, but that 2) 4 jurors personally believed that Travis’ role & behavior over the course of the association was a significant mitigating factor & determinant, when deciding between DP & Life – if this is the thinking that he’s describing, then I must admit to having considered these things re: Travis & accept the jury’s “hung” status re: penalty as a valid expression of the complexities of this case. Travis did play a role in ratcheting up both his & her crazy. While I DO NOT find his role relevant to the guilt phase (the premeditation & overkill being foremost in mind), it may well be relevant to sentencing, particularly w/ DP on the table. But, i may be all wrong about all this…
The foreman’s remarks are very “telling.” He said when he FIRST saw Jodi, he could NOT equate her with a killer. His many, very biased comments favorable to Arias, backs-up he was “”seduced,” lets say. He should have taken himself off the jury if he had any integrity, respect for the court… I think as more jurors come forth, we will hear more backlash against the foreman.
We have to remember that the mitigating factors were not just what was presented. Jury could use any mitigating factors they had gleaned from the case. I myself thought of Jodi in prison being forced to better the relationship with her family since they would be all she would have left after some years (and by the looks of Perryville, you better have someone willing to put money in commissary for you.)
I also disagree that finding premeditated necessarily means agreeing with the state’s version of events. For me, the indicator of premeditation was Travis’ throat being slit, not the gas cans and etc. Even if I believed the defense, they could not explain that. You don’t nearly decapitate someone unless you mean to kill them and as Juan said, premeditation only takes a moment.
I think the 7 that found felony were the ones that were firmly team Juan.
Hi, Seriously… So, you considered &/or think the jury considered the aspect of Arias’ need, obligation or opportunity to better family relationships as a mitigator? i never thought of that. Would she not have the same if sitting for years on death row. In fact, wouldn’t the need be even more profound?
In terms of buying into state’s conception of premeditation, the prosecutor DID offer the jury the 2 possibilities: the chain of events as evidence of &/OR premeditation as formed in the blink of an eye (re: throat slitting.) Both WERE state’s versions & both presented to jury as options? So, essentially, to agree on premeditation is to “agree” – in some important sense of the word – w/ the state’s theory?
Jane, I don’t necessarily think the jury considered that aspect as I did. It was an example of a mitigating factor that was not presented but may have been thought of. My main issue with giving Jodi the DP is that it plays into her “victim/martyr” narrative. I want her to have as much time necessary to realize and truly feel the pain she has caused and the damage she has done to herself as well.
When friends have fallen away, when even family seems to have forgotten you , when life outside is just a movie or news clip on the tv or a snippet in a letter, then it starts to sink in. However, there will be no executioner to end the regrets and the dreariness of her life. She will have to go on bearing her sins. I wish her long life.
I hear you… I think you’re right… about victim/martyr & also about wishing her long life in which to realize, feel & tangibly bear the weight of the pain she’s caused & the damage she’s done. My sense is that she will only “realize,” primarily through feeling the losses she’s caused herself. That may be the most we can expect – as this is probably all she’s capable of.
Has anyone had the thought that maybe the four hold outs do agree with the do, but just simply thought she was worth saving by all the things she said she wanted to do ( isn’t that special). I feel if that would be the reason-those four don’t think like average people-
I forget which trial, probably Casey Anthony where they showed juror selection. I wish the would have this time. They really stressed that the DP is not JUST for serial killers. I think a lot of people view the DP for multiple heinous crimes and not for crimes resulting from a relationship gone wrong. I think they might have also been swayed somewhat by the Mormon baptism followed by sex… I can sort of see where they might get “hung up” so to speak.
Who said the Mormon baptism was followed by sex?……ummmm………JODI!
After hearing from the foreperson ,well, I’m totally confused… but pretending that I’m not, after hearing this today, I’m more aware than ever that the jury saw & heard one trial & we saw & heard another, enhanced a billion times over by all else we had access to. Considering what they saw & heard, un-enhanced, I can begin to imagine how certain things might have appeared to them. Travis would not have come across as well to them as, perhaps, he did to us. They appear to have taken a lot of things Arias said at face value? This is as diplomatic as I can be.
Jane you are right. We had the luxury of watching it all as a whole. We saw Abe Adelhadi on Dr. Drew telling about his hot date with Jodi and her “dabbling in Mormonism” comment a month after she was baptized by Travis. We heard from many of Travis’s friends who weren’t in court, talking about how they were creeped out by her. We saw the recreations of crime scenes over and over on Hln, along with videos created by people disputing her timeline. And of course we saw her bizarre post-verdict interviews. They heard Laviolette, but we had the luxury of watching her and other experts played back again and explained by tv psychologists.
Hi, Tango… Yes, & it’s all but impossible, now, for us to really dial it back & imagine the “skeleton trial,” in effect (compared to the fleshed-out view we had), that the jury was working with. But, they did bring the 1st degree, premeditated, aggravated verdict. So, we all some things the same (thank you Juan.) (Though, doesn’t sound like it to hear the foreman talk. I swear to God, to hear him talk, I’m surprised they achieved the verdict they did. Phew!)
Thank you Ginny. I’m tired of people saying that the jury lied when during jury selection when they said they could give the vote for the death penalty. These people very well could have been willing to give the death penalty in certain cases but didn’t feel it was needed in this one.
As much as some people don’t want to believe it, there ARE mitigating circumstances. For ex., she is young with no prior record, she has a mental disorder, Travis was at the very least verbally abusive and used her for sex, she has a family that loves her, she lived a fairly normal life before this terrible murder, there is good she can do in this world, she did express sorrow about what happened, etc. etc.
You may pffft at all of those examples but it doesn’t change the fact that they are legitimate mitigating circumstances should the jury choose to believe them.
i am 100% in the camp that this jury tried really hard and did the best they could.
Jody was convicted of 1st degree murder and will spend the rest of her life in prison. Why is that not good enough for everyone — including the Alexander family? That is the maximum sentence allowable under the law in the vast majority of states even if a person kills 50 people. She is not getting off by this non-verdict and her life however long it is, will be no picnic. That seems appropriate enough for me. I just don’t share the outrage that 4 people felt she should not be killed nor do I believe it helps the Alexander family to pretend like justice wasn’t served. It was. She was convicted as charged and will never be free again..
I agree.
kh
Yes, Jane…………quite curious!
Bobbi – My belief the DP was set aside by 4 members with Wilmott’s closing. Jury Nullification ! Tapping into the emotion or politics of the case. Lies do not warrant killing her !
Lies may not warrant killing her, but murder does! {I know these weren’t your words, but Willmott’s} I would have preferred a Life verdict than no verdict at all. JA will now have even more time in the limelight to spew her venom and further taunt the Alexander family!
I meant to put it – that Wilmott used the nullification as when she told the jury “lies” are not a reason to kill her. I, personally think the lying is Jodi’s engine and all madness perpetuates around it. I was satisfied with that mindset when JM drove it home to the jury and even elaborated that even lying on the stand, although she was NOT charged with lying is still criminal behavoir. Wilmott made it sound like she was “just a silly girl – lying” Especially when Wilmott put her hands on Jodi’s shoulders and said..! Yea, she did something BAD but are you going to kill her ?” My dog does something BAD ! – That’s nullification to me.
Gotcha now, JustUs……I was a little foggy on the exact definition of jury nullification, so I did a bit of research. Now that the fog has lifted, it does appear that the jury did , indeed, nullify the sentencing verdict. I shall now hang ( probably not the best word to use) out my shingle!
The prosecution argued she was mentally ill. That is a valid mitigating factor in sentencing. I think putting a mentally ill person to death might be a moral issue for some, but its also a legal factor and totally acceptable. I’m not sure why 4 were for life, but I think it’s a stretch to say its just moral. It makes it sound like its irrational.
VP, i see a considerable difference btwn mental illness and personality disorder; no evidence of mental illness (in fact, if DT wanted that, ought to have brought in mom’s interrogations with Flores)…..SURE, we all think that anyone who could do what she did to Travis, both in life and when she killed him so heinously is mentally ill cuz most or all of us would NEVER do; but there are murderers out there…….i suspect that a great majority have personality disorders (with or without mental illness) My point is, she had PERSONALITY disorder, not a TEATABLE MENTAL ILLNESS
TREATABLE…
Nail.on.head. docwall
Exactly, docwall. Borderline Personality Disorder with co-morbid others being one of the most treatment resistant. A world of difference between mental illness & personality disorder. And difference between personality disorders & personality disorders w/ co-morbid psychopathology.
Bobbi i wanted the death penalty still do. The way the rules ar written the jury can use any mitigating factors. That includes willmotts do put jodi family in pain too. I dont agree with that but thats the rules they gotta play by. Makes me ill to defend the choice the jury made BUT THATS THE SYSTEM we use and we live with it and move on.
I, personally, cannot find ONE mitigating factor to justify the brutality of her crime. You are right ,steve…….gotta play the game and we WILL move on as we usually do. On to the next big story, the next big trial, or our next big “fix”.
Part of living with & moving on, for some of us, might include trying to better understand how our system works – what mitigating factors are, how they are conceived over the course of a trial &, then, applied (perhaps even retroactively) during penalty phase; what qualifies or disqualifies one as a juror on a DP case; what a juror experiences over the long haul of a trial such as this…? You are right, Steve, that this is our system. The fact, alone, inspires inquiry, no? I can’t fathom what these jurors have been through these past 5-plus months or how they, now, regain their daily lives. I sympathize. At the same time, I’m interested to better understand what occurred during the penalty phase & confused by the foreperson’s reported remarks. And I always learn from your particular comments.
i, too, appreciate your shares, Steve, particularly your snarky sense of humor. Maybe several of us might end up inspired to do a little more to try to help those who are helplessly incarcerated. I think of one of my favorite authors, Wally Lamb, who has a penchant for incarcerated women. Maybe something will fly his way and he could spread his loving attentions to the western US.
I believe “we” are very fortunate that that the jury decided Murder 1 with aggravating circumstances. I’m remembering some of the dynamics and timing of events in the courtroom where clearly the DT was in charge. Things like cross examinations, closing statements for verdict, aggravators and mitigators for the sentencing. Juan would end with a real flourish; and then the Judge would call for a brief recess or lunch break or afternoon break or wait til the next day. I firmly believe that if the DT had on all these many occasions, the ball handed to them at that time, they would have had much weaker facades and the difference between the logic of Juan and the foolishness of the DT’s presentations would stand out better. I think there would be NO one on the jury buying abuse of Jodi.
The DT had all the cards when it came to the mitigators. Sad Jodi lied about her friend who would love to be there, but was threatened. No cross exam for Patti. Her ex-beau would love to be there. A no show…..and he’s not cross examined. Jodi can’t get questioned by Juan on the crap she spewed. The insanity of those damn Survivor t-shirts couldn’t be questioned. The strategy was brilliant and deceitful and it worked.
I’m hoping that Juan and the Alexanders can go with LWOP. I understand that after many many yrs, she’ll possibly come up for reconsideration for parole. I’m betting she’ll have either screwed up and gotten more time for acting up, or “a shankin’ we will go” will the tune she hears. Also, without the DP sentence, she gets NO automatic free appeal. Just a stinkin’ lifer in a state prison in the desert. Who-ahh.
MaRiley……remember how many days passed between the Alexander’s statements and JA’s allocution? How much more pathetic and weak her arguments would have seemed had she spoken immediately after Steven & Samantha!
Absolutely, Bobbi. I’ve got to give Juan credit for not exploding in court over these obvious timing set ups. He wouldn’t have been able to change it and would give them the satisfaction of seeing that he was pissed.
And it sure sounded like Jodi wrote her allocution ( God, I wish it were execution) was based item by item on Stephen and Samantha’s words. They called Travis the glue that held the family together. Jodi contradicted them by saying that Travis said that about his Grandma. And, Jesus….her story that Travis called her that his Grandma was ill, after they had broken up. Stephen has nightmares; she claimed that she did, too, although Doc. Samuels said she reported no nightmares. Jodi won’t hold her brother’s baby if she gets the needle, but at least Travis held his niece. Timing is everything. Gathering the Jodi Show’s photos and scans of her tracings and writing the BS and making the PowerPoint took some time; and seeing that some of it was based on taunting Stephen and Samantha, they were playing for time and it succeeded.
That was creepy and I’m glad you noticed it too. I was particularly appalled when she (gleefully) announced that SHE has nightmares during her media blitz just after we saw how broken, fragile and tortured Steven is. kh
MaRiley, in retrospect & considering the 1st glimpses of jury impressions that come out today, I heave sigh of relief that the 1st degree premeditated, aggravated murder verdict was reached. I think a Life Without Parole deal at this point might be very wise, indeed. It will be interesting to see what happens.
LWOP is a far better penalty for JA, her multiple personalities will blow up from the unrelenting stress of her loss of personal power, her life will be at the mercy of those with ultimate power over her as she enters the hell hole of the AZ State Penitentiary. She will get done in faster than if she were on death row. All her grifter talents will serve her no more.
I agree, and don’t you know those lifers already at Perryville are salivating at the bit anticipating the new girl coming in….even if it’s years before she is allowed around any other inmates, they will be ready for her! It would be a feather in their cap to dominate her…besides, what would they have to lose?….Life in prison…duh! The celebrity that she thinks she is will be knocked down many notches when those iron doors close behind her! She has enjoyed her so-called months in the limelight, now the only light she will get is through a small slit of a window. She obviously has not heard how harsh her future will be, no matter what her sentence is. She is so far into la-la land that she still is thinking it’s not going to happen. Why else would she have said to Wilmot yesterday when she was trying to figure out what was happening before the ‘non-verdict’ came in, ” won’t they have to let me plea?” She was probably thinking she could get her own choice of deals at the last minute. She is several bricks shy of a load, that girl! I don’t think I have ever watched such a manipulator before, who sees herself as smarter than everyone else on the planet, when in our reality (not hers apparently) she is so malfunctioning.
I really have not been a proponent of the dp as a rule. But sometimes when the nature of the crime is beyond heinous, and that person’s ability to be a productive member of society is NIL…then I can change my thoughts on that. We need not ever have to worry about her on the streets again, nor smirking from our tv screens twenty years down the road.
one other little JA nugget that she inadvertently revealed during one of her “interviews” — she was asked if she would ever kill again or something to that effect. her answer: well, i don’t think so, but, if i were attacked…
fill in the blanks jurors = she’s a bonafide sociopath. she must never be entrusted with “freedom” again. she appears utterly unable to “play by the rules”.
and having been raised by card-carrying members of the peace and freedom party myself, and having embraced a life of “live and let live”…even i find it hard not to exercise the DP for capital offenses committed by the cretins who walk among us.
i hope and pray that no one insults the animal kingdom by referring to the human garbage like JA, also that barbarian in cleveland not to mention the lunatics who just hacked up an innocent man on the streets of woolwich, england, as “animals”. even animals know better.
I agree Susan. Lets have respect for the animal kingdom. To say Arias has the low brain of a pig does not know pigs are highly intelligent animals. Although Arias resembles a snake/lizard w/her sinewy movements, licking tongue, beaded eyes, it is a metaphor of ability to calculate & strike fast. There is respect to snakes by not saying they are like Arias!
hopefully JM will be able to use those interviews when he argues in front of the new jury deciding Jodi’s sentence.
Remember her answer in one of the post verdict interviews? The question was something like would society be safe if you were to be paroled? Her answer was If they don’t abuse me like TA did. Who says $hit like that before they are sentenced? She has great big ole snakes in her head.
Peachteacher, agreed. Jodi scares me, that much evil and manipulation… it really is like something from a movie. Right down to her recycling and sign language bs meant for the foreman and hard- of -hearing juror..constant manipulation. I wonder which jurors were the artist, cancer survivor, spanish speaker or teacher…
So basically if someone yells at her or uses her she feels it would be okay to kill them, since that seems to be the extent of Travis’s abuse. Terrifying! Thank God she with never get that chance.
Agree w/ these observations! … I think her latest interview statements are the MOST revealing, eerie, yet (if that’s possible.) Add to your list her cautionary advice: “Document, document… If I can get even 1 person in my situation to document… ” Never ONCE does it even enter her psyche to say, “If I could get even one person to back off from a risky relationship, get OUT of a risky relationship, hear the warning bell when the mind derails, seek help to understand & overcome obsessive diabolical thoughts…” To date, the REALITY that she killed a human being 3 times over, ACTUALLY slit a human being’s throat, doesn’t hit home. Instead, w/ uncanny composure, she’s essentially signalling the freaks out there to rock on, but document, document… the tragedy is failure to document. To me, her latest comments SCREAM the incurable nature of her particular psychopathological BPD/co-morbid combo.
Jodi made a lot of comments during the TV interviews I feel she wouldn’t have made in court. Her thought pattern…[the jurors can’t use those statements against me since they aren’t supposed to watch the interviews.]
justice delayed, not denied. life in prison w/o parole will be no picnic for a sociopath like JA.
i believe what really happened yesterday with the inability of the jury to reach a unanimous vote on either option = people are able in theory to say that they could authorize the death penalty; doing it in practice tho, totally different chaos that would plague the mind of a moral person. even the professionals assigned the task of actually administering lethal injection and/or other methods of execution have been found to suffer under the weight of carrying out the task. if anyone deserved the death penalty, it would be JA. she committed a particularly brutal capital murder. it doesn’t even make sense that murderers have options. and yet, the death penalty begs the question of our own humanity when faced with this terribly difficult responsibility as jurors and society at large.
i don’t believe for a moment that the jurors misunderstood the gravity of the situation or became fond of JA. i think they simply could not make the sentence square with their own internal belief systems.
if for some reason the second impaneled jury is unable to mete out the sentence that is commensurate with the crime committed = the judge steps in and dispenses the sentence. and the only option on the table will be, life in prison w/o parole.
and JA presented her allocution remarks that practically made it seem like she would become the most beloved “pied-piper” ever in state prison, should she be allowed to serve a life sentence. wait until the general population gets ahold of her!
they’re not there for no reason. and those “locks of love”…might be pulled out at the root once she starts really serving her time. no way her time in prison is gonna be a giant JA love-fest.
she might just wish she’d opted for the DP after all.
Susan……..LMAO “pied-piper” playing her blade of grass whilst the roaches follow behind!
“Pied Piper”… so good! Exactly what she’s thinking.
Nancy, all day I have been thinking what your wrote…
RE: Travis’ siblings want blood, but when you think of the costs to them financially, in their relationships, in their jobs, etc., when is enough going to be enough?
I hope this time away from trial will help the Alexander’s to get on with their lives and if the county attorney, JM, the defense team and JA agree to a plea of LWOP, the family will accept it.
I heard on Dr. Drew that he and the attorney, Mark Argleish [sp?] have offered to help Alexander family with counseling, etc. I hope the family takes them up on their sincere offers.
I highly doubt Ms. Arias will cop a plea to natural life (no parole) because in Arizona that doesnt just mean no parole……….. it means no anything.
“……..A defendant who is sentenced to natural life is not eligible for commutation, parole, work furlough, work release or release from confinement on any basis,” reads Arizona Revised Statutes 13-751, the section defining life and death sentences in the criminal code…….”
kh
I don’t think JA will accept or even consider LWOP for even one minute. She might have accepted it a week ago but I’m pretty sure she’ll want to take her chances with another jury now. If that jury is deadlocked then the judge will decide life or LWOP.
Like the rest of you, I’m tired of the trial and JA and of HLN. I haven’t turned HLN on all day, much to my husband’s delight! LOL
I really hope the Alexanders can find peace if the new jury comes back with life. They have already been through so much pain, all because of Jodi Arias…. I wouldn’t want to give her one more minute in my life, and if that means she doesn’t get the death penalty, so be it. Her life in prison doesn’t look like a pleasure anyway-maybe worse than death-so I hope they can allow themselves to accept that and move forward. I hope they can focus on how their brother lived his life, instead of his murderer and how he died. The death sentence they think they want might not make them feel any better about any of it anyway
Hi Rose: Thanks for the comments on my previous post. I’m just not sure that even with a new jury, they will come back for the DP. If it had been just one or two people who were holdouts, I may have had more faith that a DP verdict could be reached, but when the split was 8 to 4, I have my doubts.
It is beyond me how that jury could have sat through all of the testimony from Travis’ friends, siblings, and even his old girlfriends who testified about what a great, compassionate, and positive person he was, and not come up with a unanimous decision either way. I was sure she would get the DP. She has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, certainly nothing to mitigate murder and extreme cruelty. Even her own family wouldn’t speak on her behalf. I would personally love to wipe that shit-eating grin off her face when she does interviews. I just despise her.
I think that Dr Drew and atty Mark Eiglarsh will pursue helping the Alexander family. I know that Dr Drew is especially worried about Steven, and I must say I am as well. He seems extremely angry in court, and barely contains his emotions. When the jury came back with no verdict, he was looking at that jury like he wanted to vault over the bannister and kill every one of them! His pain is palpable. I hope he allows Dr Drew to offer him therapy of some kind, to relieve his PTSD symptoms and eventually learn to live with the tragic death of his brother.
I don’t think that JA getting the death penalty will ease their suffering. Instead it will be years of appeals. It will never really be over for them. Every few years the possibility of a new appeal will come up, and they will feel obligated to attend, to make sure that their brothers side is represented. AT least if she gets Lwop, the appeals process will be greatly reduced, and they can hopefully begin to heal and move on with their lives. They have suffered enough.
Nice perspective. Always lovely posts, Nancy; I learn so much from them. Yes, Steven Alexander’s hurt is distinctive & extremely palpable. As a sister among brothers & a mother of sons, I feel especially drawn… & am troubled. i hope that, if Pinsky steps in, he initiates support that will be discreet, low profile, SUSTAINED & all about Stephen, not about him. I’m not Pinsky’s biggest fan, but if he can truly come through for this person (this family), then all power to him.
i agree with your thinking re: L w/o P. It seems to me the wisest, most enlightened & humane course of action NOT in terms of Arias (I couldn’t care less what happens to her), but with respect to the Alexander Family.
Hi Jane: Thanks for the nice comments. I like Dr Drew myself, and believe he will do the best for Steven and the rest of the family. I also think that Dr Cheryl Arutt would offer her services and support for the family. That’s just my opinion though. Everyone on the Dr Drew panels seem to be sincerely concerned about the family, and I was really pleased to hear the offer of help to them. Dr Drew knows that Steven is very fragile right now, and I don’t believe that he would take advantage of the situation for his own gain.
VIDEO | Jury foreman : ‘We were horrified when judge called a mistrial’
http://www.azcentral.com/video/#/New…/2407451853001
I am so confused. What the hell did he think was gonna happen?
kh
Khintx, my take on this is that he knew they had gone as far as they could go in deliberations but he just didn’t realize it would be called a mistrial if the jury was hung. It’s possible he thought that meant the entire trial would have to be done over. To be honest, early on when I heard the word ‘mistrial’ I thought that’s what it meant but as I continued to listen it was explained that only the penalty phase would be a mistrial..much to my relief.!
So, he & the other jurors were shocked (his word) at the sound of the word alone? They felt (his description mind you) that they had fallen short of their duty due, merely, to the utterance of the word? Hmmmm… I don’t know about that.
I suppose it’s not absolutely necessary for the foreperson or other jurors to understand the concept of mistrial in the context of their case at hand. I suppose they can judge the merits of the case & reach a verdict without understanding the proceedings. But, I’m thinking that their NOT UNDERSTANDING such terms & other points of procedure (ex: what happens if they fail to reach consensus in the penalty phase)… I’m thinking that their NOT KNOWING is a sign of something or other LESS THAN IDEAL.
Rose, I assure you, had you been on that jury, you would have gotten to the bottom of unclear stuff. Your mind would have DEMANDED to understand simply by virtue of being a mind in a situation.
It seems he thought if they didn’t unanimously agree – the judge would let her live by giving her life with or life without parole. They thought they’d done their jobs with the prior two verdicts. Where were they when the judge and attorneys were explaining the process???
Something tells me they just done with the whole process and ready to back to their families, jobs, etc.
The jury foreman said: ‘We were horrified when judge called a mistrial’ – does that mean that when they sent the first note, the judge misunderstood the question? Maybe they did not want suggestions for how to continue on, they actually wanted to know what the consequence would be if they could not come to an agreement? This is so crazy. How could he say they were horrified when the judge called a mistrial? I am more confused than ever.
kh
kh, what I’m tripping over in his statement that they were horrified when the judge called a mistrial sounds like horse chit to me. The jury has to sign, individually on the verdict form. That’s what the clerk reads directly from. Who’s chittin’ who??
really…? You know I thought all along that was what they were asking! I think they wanted to know if they couldn’t come to a unanimous opinion-what happened next. I think if they knew the decision would be given to another jury, they would have stayed longer or fought harder. I know we’re not allowed to bash the jury so I will quietly exit stage left haha.
I’m curious to hear from the rest of the jury and alternates, if it’s allowed and jury’s prudent…teehee. However he wants to shape his story about how many questions they had, he as the Foreman hands the verdict form to the bailiff who hands it to the judge who hands it to the clerk. They all sign. I would think that a question would certainly not be on a verdict form. I call BS. Semi-respectfully.
If William “the Foreman” Zervakos’ comments are any indication of what was transpiring during deliberations, the rest of the jurors’ comments should be very enlightening. During his interview, Bill seemed very concerned as to WHY Jodi had slaughtered Travis. And I quote, “This is a human and she did something terrible, but why did she do it”?…….Didn’t the jury have almost 5 effing months of testimony to figure out why she butchered Travis? I thought Juan made it crystal clear as to her motives……jealousy, fear of abandonment, “you’ll never leave me” syndrome, the trip to Cancun, “If I can’t have you, no one will”, etc……………….. I almost feel that he, perhaps some, of the jurors are giving her a pass on the DP because they may believe that Travis did something to precipitate the events of June 4, 2008!
I would LOVE to know what juror #8 has to say about all this-he seemed so sensible. Hopefully they will all come out and speak about the verdict soon.
Bobbi, i could not have said it better than you just did!! Amazing….i mean this jury could ask questions! i think there was some form of WANTING not to believe she is what she is, some desire to “lessen” her obvious guilt and psychopathy. perhaps she reminded CERTAIN jurors of someone in their own lives and so they just could not choose the needle..??
Didn’t Judge Stephens say to them in this penaly phase that they were not to be investigators? In other words, weren’t her instructions to them that they now to just apply the mitigators and vote LWOP or Death?
Maybe this duh foreman thought there was going to be a going-free for his sweetie.
Hope Tamara is OK ? and rested ! Day off from the crazy-trial crazies !
I’m good. Just doing a Jodi Arias Detox. 🙂
IMO This is Bobbi Juarez
Does it violate my no jury bashing rule if I point out that my “boyfriend” is 69 and I can’t believe the ladies were calling him attractive and artsy?
Also Sheriff Joe got his wrists slapped today in Federal Court.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/24/us-usa-arizona-sheriff-idUSBRE94N0Y320130524?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews
Oh ! ~ I sheepishly thought of you the minute I saw him on TV… see how blind dates suck ? ~ I guess the artist type came from how he held his note pad. So maybe Dali w/o his mustache… no ? How about Patton ? 🙂
roflmao!!!! AND TOTALLY AGREE!! so sorry for the reality hit here, TT LOL ….blind date line: “he’s such a sensitive (nice) guy”
well, er… this is going to test your limits of playing by the rules. He’s OFFICIALLY NOT MY BOYFRIEND ANYMORE. I will just say that.
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/05/jodi-arias-jury-foreman-interview-video/
I could write a 10 page editorial here regarding this. I’m gonna shorten it and say O.M.G. cause I gotta play by the rules.
Kinda glad YOU have some sense and kicked him to the curb..
Thank God you came to your senses. 😉
Just wrapping up tonight – Hey TT. Should I feel icky now because I feel he baited for things that seemed obviously fabricated to me ? I’m sure this trial was different ‘Up Close & Personal [wink wink]
I’m sort of smart & open minded enough to open my pea brain a bit wider – but Wow !! Now I am feeling a gender thingy… so why so many repulsed – I’m NO prude – but she was so, so demonstrative. Guess the paternal thing did exist ? – Even after he was exposured to the outside world it sounds like maintained sympathy. But oh well
they DID convict her afterall.
Jury foreman said, and I quote “Our jury’s prudence system is based on innocent until proven guilty.”
Jury’s prudence system? RU phuckin kiddin me. Another Einstein. Glad you dumped him.
I am officially on jodi hiatus until, well, I don’t know when. I know she’ll be back. And back. And back. But I gotta get off this crazy train for awhile.
Peace out.
kh
(jury’s prudence, cracks me the phuck up)
ok I agree the guy is a boob, but..RadarOnline might have just THOUGHT that’s what he said because they never heard the word jurisprudence …?
just to be fair, i would like to point out that radaronline CONSISTENTLY misspells words. their reporters are not being monitored for command of the english language.
i’m betting the jury foreperson said “jurisprudence”; but the pseudo-journalists at radar don’t really know how to spell, let alone, figure out what a homonym is.
just sayin’…
He said jurisprudence system. It was the Radar Online person who didn’t know the word.
I suppose I should go – spend time w /my husband since Jodi and all of us have officially broken up. But it will take a little time each day and looking forward to checking back in [detox] – I hope we’ll all be here somewhere. I’ve gotten quite aquainted with some pretty awesome people here ! ~ Thanks for letting me hang around to babble & bitch, Tamara. ~ You’re a tough cookie to hang around – but there’s something about you I like..! 🙂 A good holiday weekend to all.
LL, thank you for sharing the video. I’m feeling much better after watching it.
I think it’s funny to look back st Jean Kasarus (jinkasaurus?) and what she was saying about the woman who “looks like Jodi’s mom” crying and looking angry. I think she was #16? The immediate thought was that it must have been a woman who wouldn’t vote for dp, and it was probably 11 to 1. She hasn’t spoken yet, so maybe she was angry because she WAS for the dp and was frustrated. I think this foreman must have been one of the four, his statements all seem to be telling us why he didn’t give Jodi death? My point is, why did we assume that it was a woman holding it up, when it was really four people and most likely at least one male?
Agree with foreman assumption, Tango. Also with peeps inferring it was probably women would couldn’t or wouldn’t vote DP. Generally speaking, I think women, though perceived as “caretakers” or what have you, are far more likely to be harsh on another woman than a male. Subjective of course but a lot of truth in there.
Ummm ya, another trophy for me…can’t spell my own damn nick. Sorry TT
I know Ex Juror, and that is funny to me. I am a Cna, starting nursing school, so I would call myself a caretaker, but I would have given dp based on the cruel nature of the murder. I just thought it funny that men and women alike have that stereotype still,…oh it must be the hysterical woman. Many woman are mothers too, and probably identified with the loss of Travis’ s family more than Jodi’s “abuse” story.
Agreed, Tango! Does one even need look further than some of the alleged thought processes reiterated in jury foreman interviews given thus far? There ya go….the stereotype lives!
Hmmm…I can’t see my original reply to you….no matter, clearly you got it 🙂
Roger that TANGO. Completely agree. My wife thought the same thing and is also convinced that foreman was agin DP. If what was said above is true (Jury claims to not understand instructions) we have problems and it is hard for me to imagine investing all this time and then just throwing hands up and DUHing it at end. Ashamed of my kind (gender:male) when I hear foreman talk about Jody, “not looking like a murderer.” HUH! WTF do they look like? Shameful. Also WRETCH-A-Looza time when Drew freaks on Alexanders. FUCK em. They have a right to go ballistic and if they (and JM) agree and State of AZ doesn’t bitch go after her.
Food for thought – Apparently Arias would have way more opportunities for appeals on Death Row than she would have serving Life were appeals get very slow going to nil. So consider the source..! There may always be a technicality lurking just beneath the fold of a 1000 documents, somewhere. Chance to get fresh Ari es (ha) IMO the Alexander’s need to free their pain – let her wallow for life. ~ Hopefully everyone will have a restful holiday weekend. ~ Bueno Cucina !
Hope we will all check in ~ You folks are a hard habit to break. 🙂
I listened to Zervokas interview on abc15 and he said they did not understand the jury instructions and when they came in with a hung verdict they all thought the judge would then decide on the penalty. Also said they felt as though they did not complete their task. I believe we all agree on that statement.
WHAAAAT?!? Come on, this is serious. How can a jury NOT understand the instructions? They even had it in written form. How many questions (sealed) did they submit >> #3. And the judge said each time, to paraphrase, she was there to help with anything not understood. “Hung Jury,” passing the buck onto the judge? This gets more messy (& injustice) day by day. Foreman keep talking…I do wonder if you are coherent!
Agreed Dawn. Big time cop out among many other nonsensical statements and evident lack of critical thinking. OMG….I have the words I want to spew, but I can’t according to TT rules.
Here is a link to a video created by former Deputy Warden of some of Arizona’s harshest prisons. He clears a lot of confusion, and sheds light on what the REAL LIFE in Perryville will be like for this stabby monster, as opposed to her FANTASY Social-Club.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJTBLd-72fg&feature=youtu.be
If you think she deserves the worst possible outcome, and were devastated by the hung jury, this may help you deal with it.
http://www.movienewz.com/jodi-arias-dirty-little-secret/
Thirty second trailer of the Lifetime movie…. Jodi Arias Dirty Little Secret
[Hope this link is correct]
Here is the link to his abc15 interview.
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/jodi-arias-juror-interview-foreman-speaks-out-about-trial-trouble-in-sentencing-phase
I can’t believe they didn’t understand the jury instructions. I’m surprised they didn’t ask for help to understand them!
Getting caught up. I believe the foreman regarding not knowing another jury could be formed. The only way we know that is from HLN. It was not said in court. If I were a juror I would never have even considered to concept that a new jury could be formed just for sentencing. This was all new and bizarre info in this trial..It doesn’t say on the form what happens if they are unable to agree.
He did not say he did not understand the instructions. He said he didn’t know there would be a second jury if they were unable to agree.
Are we talking semantics here? Why did they not ask the judge (or maybe they did) what would ensue if they did not agree? What relevance did it have to them whether a new jury would be formed or not?
Neglected to add….would it have changed the outcome?
He said it would not have made a difference if they had known. I don’t get why all y’all assume that the jury would know that another panel would be formed. It’s the stupidest criminal court procedure I’ve ever heard of. And not once was it mentioned in court.
There was nothing about the outcome in the INSTRUCTIONS.
Agreed, way too many “phases”. My point was, it’s irrelevant whether they were aware of a new jury panel. The only relevance here is why they were shocked when a mistrial was declared.
They felt that if the were unable to agree on death, it would be up to the judge to decide LWOP or Life.
Tamara, if I remember correctly about the instructions concerning what could or would happen if they failed to come to a unanymous decision, they weren’t to think about the consequences. They were to base the decision on the facts of the case.
They felt that if the were unable to agree on death, it would be up to the judge to decide LWOP or Life.
I get that TT. Again, why not clarify with judge? It’s not a juror’s duty to ASSUME anything! Okay, I’ll drop it for now because I know you’re gonna make me anyway, Just had to vent. Done.
LOL not going to make you. Just trying to see why you think they should have assumed a second jury. Who does that? AZ has some weird laws. I expect this second jury thing will be struck down eventually anyway eventually. It’s nonsensical. I hope they all just agree to LWOP.
I didn’t say they should have assumed second jury. I said they should not have assumed ANYTHING. Especially given the gravity of their decision. Ample time and resources not to mention responsibility. Okay, done for real now. lol.
I agree that it is crazy. I guess I should understand that citizens do not keep up with the laws and customs of their state, but I still find it a bit discomforting that 12 people could promise to follow the law of the land when they don’t know what it is.
I am glad that a jury is not told that a new jury would be empanelled to make the decision if they were deadlocked. It might cause some who didn’t have the balls to make the hard decision to just refuse to decide and punt it to another jury.
It wasn’t necessary to tell them that. The end result was “assumed” to be almost the same. Pass it to the judge.
The foreman said the instructions were ambiguous which suggested, at least to me, there was some confusion of their exact meaning or interpretation. After all they went through for 5 + months, it just seems to me one of those jurors would have asked for greater clarification. After listening to the video, I felt like the jury had spiked the football one yard short of the touchdown and they now realized that. But, I also wondered if the foreman might have been passing the buck on to the judge since he has been getting such negative feedback!
I hope we hear from some of the other jurors but I doubt I would call attention to myself if I were one of them.
I wonder how the judge feels now knowing this bit of information!!
Agree, Rose.
I remember hearing (in one of few juror post-trial comments) that some members of the Casey Anthony jury were fuzzy re: how to weigh circumstantial evidence, the meaning of reasonable doubt & how to apply lesser included offenses. Yikes, that’s worrisome. Yet, then, it was quickly added that “well, the prosecution just didn’t prove their case.” Hmmm… ? Well, if one were fuzzy re: key concepts… ?
I’d say ambiguity re: terms & procedures necessarily affects jury deliberations & outcomes on some level.
Phew, that, in this case, the jurors at least brought back the guilty verdict they did! I, too, think they spiked one yard short in the penalty phase & might have been capable of a L w/o P decision under different leadership. But, who knows & water under bridge. And, years from now, perhaps, the judge will speak. I, too, would be interested in her candid impressions.
Meanwhile, back at the blog. Some crazy person is claiming they are contacting the employers of all those at the Jodi is Innocent site to get them in some sort of trouble and is having a conniption fit in moderation that I won’t publish her list of targets.
Say whaaaaa? There are some seriously fkd up people out there.
Well despite what you heard on HLN, the jury was not given an Allen/dynamite charge. For one, that is for the guilt phase only, and for another AZ does not allow the practice. I looked all of that up when I kept hoping that the judge would do something along those lines for the sentencing. I think this jury felt a sense of ownership of the process and if they had been told that another group of random people would be chosen if they could not agree, people who were not better off than they were to make the decision would be selected to continue. Bill said it would not have changed the outcome, but I would have like to have found that out….
Does anymore know if any other juror is talking?
Despite my belief that the jury foreman is a total idiot, I still think the system worked very well. Jodi was convicted of Murder One and the jury found cruelty existed making her eligible for Death penalty or life. I know Jury all claimed they could put a person to death and I am sure when they started they “intellectually” believed it. I think it is a whole different story when the time comes to actually do it, lot harder than most people would think so I can’t really get mad at the jury, they did the best they could.
Ultimately Jodi is not going to have a life of joy behind bars no matter how long she stays in jail. Notice she is still tweeting via her pet dog, Donavon. I think the next jury will also either be hung or go for life not DP. If defense can call Jodi to the stand again to testify and to give her final statement, we all know she will do more lying and garbage talking. Also by the foreman talking he is giving the defense ammunition on what to to to insure another outcome. All it takes is one juror to not buy what Martinez puts forth and we are done.
I sincerely hope that Travis’ siblings can accept life and just end this now. The faster they put Jodi away, the faster they can try to get to healing and the faster they can shut Jodi down from continuing to trash Travis’ reputation. I think we all have to rely on the fact that, although I think she has been an inept Judge in this case, Stephens has heard and seen all the testimony (admitted and not admitted) and she has had to deal with Jodi’s shenanigans. I would hope she has the common sense to go for a sentence of Life without Parole. Then justice would be served and Jodi will understand what cruelty is when she is in Perryville in maximum security on full lockdown BY HERSELF with no audience. And if and when she earns the right to mingle with the animals, then she is in for the shock of her life. And knowing how Jodi does not obey the rules, I would guess she just might get to spend time in the cage outside in the hot sun, where another inmate literally roasted to death.
Perryville is not about rehabilitating criminals, it is about punishing them and keeping them away from society so ultimately if Jodi is off the street, she can’t kill again.
Interesting book about the horrors of Perryville Just check Amazon or your favorite book site for The Slumber Party From Hell by Sue Ellen Allen. Bye bye Jodi
Mitigating circumstances include diminished capacity or heat of passion and self defense. Extralegal punishment factors are things like a talent or a contribution to society, young age, or even hardship to a family. Jodi had no mitigating factors, as she said herself. The defense used the EPF’s instead, which is basically asking for mercy, but not mitigating circumstances, as there was no self defense proven and so no heat of passion. I researched this because my instincts kept telling me that the mitigation by the defense seemed weak, and Juan pointed out that the things they were using were not mitigating factors, as they were not even related to the actual crime.
Tango, did you happen to see the AZ Bar Association (.org) document re: background & jury instructions (aggravators, mitigators, penalty phase) for capitol cases? Long, but good & you can skim & find all the applicable stuff. (Though doc isn’t intended as specifically jury instructions, I swear to god the judge read some of it verbatim to the jury.) Anyway, paper helped me several days ago; then, I went back this evening to review (due to my utter astonishment over jurors not knowing what sequence of events would be set in motion should they fail to reach consensus.)
Did it say whether or not the jury should have known or would be informed about what happens? I find it difficult to think that they were not told another jury would be used…?
Sorry, Tango… Paper thoroughly discusses all aspects of aggravators, mitigators, & penalty phase (using some of your terminology – which is what made me think to ask you). Includes changes in AZ capitol cases, instituted 2011. Each section includes suggestions for jury instructions (which the judge seemed to quote verbatim), but jury instruction is not the sole focus (in fact, I think the article states that it should not be used w/ jurors.)
I just saw this..so perhaps they would not have emphasized what would happen if they failed. Maybe it would be to avoid jurys giving up too easily because they felt they could just hand it over to new jurors? Basically the new jury is a backup plan they don’t want to use or encourage if possible.
Tango, I went to doc 2nd time specifically to check (already struck by the similarity between doc & judge’s instructions.) Last page, last paragraph, following detailed discussion & point form instruction statements re: penalty phase deliberation, there is an EXACT description of what occurs should jury fail to reach consensus. Whether or not this is meant to be explicitly presented, I can’t tell. But the judge would know precisely how to proceed & undoubtedly did so.
It’s water under bridge, now, but here’s what my mind’s doing: Why would I know the sequence that follows failure to reach consensus in AZ, & the AZ jurors NOT know? Irrespective of whether or not this information is explicitly included in jury instructions. Why would jurors not WANT to know? Out of curiosity, if nothing else. They certainly aren’t barred from knowing, are they? Surely, when potential jurors were being vetted, citizens of Phoenix weren’t categorically disqualified if they happened to know how a capitol case works in their state?! All I’m saying is that it’s a bit of a NON-STARTER to think that their deliberations & outcome would somehow be more pure & just if they were in the dark on this point. Jurors are asked to deliberate & be decisive at several stages in an AZ capitol case & at each of these stages instructed to include specific factors in their deliberations while excluding others that may or may not also be in plain sight.
The twist, here, is that it appears the jury DID want to clarify what would occur if they failed to reach consensus AND asked the question AND received an answer that reflected that their question had been MISunderstood. This is rather alarming to me. If they want to know, they want to know. Why would they deliberately be given a bum steer? Could there have been a f*ck up? We’ll likely never know.
So, we’re left w/ would/should knowledge of what occurs if consensus isn’t reached affect deliberations? Well…
The foreperson has stated 1) that the jurors were shocked when they heard the judge call a mistrial & 2) that the jurors subsequently felt they’d fallen short of their full duty. But, he, then, states 3) that they DID ask what would happen if they failed to reach consensus, but, then, 4) adds that it wouldn’t have made a difference to their process or outcome whether they were confused vs clear on the point.
Well, then, WHY the SHOCK, I ask? WHY the sense of FALLING SHORT OF DUTY? These are unequivocal terms. Doesn’t make sense to me. Doesn’t this fellow seem to be wanting it both ways? Seems to me he has indicated, through his own candid words, that it WOULD have made a difference, however subtle, had they known a 2nd jury would be impaneled to retry the penalty phase. Welllllllll, thennnn, IT DID MAKE A DIFFERENCE to this jury that they DIDN’T know!! (They were shocked. They feel they fell short of their duty.)
Poor, Tango! You didn’t ask for this diatribe. 🙂
It’s ok Jane, I followed what you said and agree. Maybe this foreman is just saying they didn’t realize what would happen to make himself look better. That may be why he ran to beat the others to interviews. He messed up as foreman and he is saying what he can to justify it. Most people won’t question it and research it like we are, so the assumption will be, oh it wasn’t clear. But I especially agree that they live in AZ so they all couldn’t possibly have not known about this. And since they were asking questions, perhaps a few of them did know, and despite the foreman’s ignorance, they tried to clarify…The judge answered appropriately to go back, since it had been too short a time to stop deliberating, but she didn’t know the jury was really saying, hey we have a few people refusing to budge, can you confirm that another jury will be used if we can’t do this…
Interesting, Tango, in both aspects… IS there something about this foreperson? Is he, perhaps, speaking as if “on behalf of all,” yet in terms that might not accurately portray what they would say went on? I truly don’t want to ‘bash” him, but I don’t take to him… don’t know exactly why. I, personally, much prefer Juror 8 (if that’s the guy who was dismissed & has spoken on Dr. Drew). Man, he seems like such a genuine good, decent, naturally perceptive & funny guy. (His submitted questions for Dick Samuels! Glorious!) I’d go for a beer w/ HIM. Your other point re: the judge not fully grasping the spirit of the jury question. I absolutely agree that there was a missed beat there. (O god when the judge choked up? Could you stand it? I haven’t always known what to think of her, but, I’d go for a beer w/ her, too.) Thanks so much for talking!!
HI Jane: Enjoyed your comments, and I agree with you about Juror #8. I think his name is Dan, and he seems like a very level headed, decent and intelligent man. He said he was sorry for being dismissed from jury duty, because he felt he had let the family down. I’d go for a beer with him too, and I don’t even LIKE beer! 🙂
When the judge choked up it was diffcult to listen to. She’s not made of stone after all! I’m sure she must have been shocked when the jury deliberated for such a short time, considering the importance of them reaching a verdict. Judge Stephens has also lived and breathed this trial for 6 months. I know that I got kind of burned out towards the end,(although I WAS getting a wee bit addicted to the 24 hour a day coverage, so it’s my own fault) so she must have had trial fatigue too. The thought that now this trial is going to take months to finish, must have been disheartening to her. I’m sure she wants to get back to some less stressful cases for awhile.
Here is a link to an interview with juror # 6:
http://www.azcentral.com/video/2410041098001
(Interesting to learn that the split was mixed gender.)
Thanks country: you saved me a search.
De nada, smitsa……..just payin’ it forward.
🙂
Why didn’t you approve my comments?
Well, now that I’ve had a chance to breath, reflect and regroup. I really do think that the jury did what they were instructed, of what they could remember. I think back on the instructions – who can understand all the here-fors, whatnots, etc., I know I was yawning past the first sentence. Could everyone have just been done, with the trial, with her and the circus that was the Jodi show? They in actually did what most wanted them to do – find her guilty of the murder of Travis Alexander. Who knows, maybe this might be a wakeup call for the State of Arizona to take the DP, LWOP decision out of the hands of jurors and place it on the judges. Maybe that’s not the answer, there will be those of us who feel it’s not – especially when the verdict does not go the way we wish. But she is in prison, and from all I’ve read about where she will be, we may not have to worry about her long. Crazytown has her ticket – or big bertha with a shive, either way we can only hope that our little field trip to Jodi’s world is over and for one I can finally breath as I wash the Jodi stench off myself.
I remember everyone thinking this was the best jury ever right up until the part where they could not agree to kill her. We loved the questions. We loved the guilty verdict. And now they are a bunch of people uncapable of understanding directions?
I am watching the exact same interviews y’all are and I don’t see that they misunderstood a thing about their directions. What they did not know was that a second jury would be selected. Or COULD be selected. I don’t understand (not arguing just not comprehending) how y’all seem to expect the average retired joe in AZ to be up to date on all the latest death penalty procedures. This is a relatively new process which is under a great deal of scrutiny for violating double jeopardy rights of the defendant. Yet Billy Sue and Bob Sr. who moved to AZ to retire because the climate is good for their arthritis is somehow supposed to be up to the minute on the process? Or should have been more inquisitive about some new weird process that doesn’t make sense to most rational people? You don’t think that the assumption “if we don’t agree to death then the judge will give her life anyway” is reasonable? I keep saying I am going to stop posting on this issue, but I find you to be rational people and therefore keep trying to wrap my brain about your opinion.
They gave us what most of us felt Jodi deserved, murder 1. I am satisified with that, and applaud them for their service. I cannot fault them for anything that they did. I shouldn’t have said that they misunderstood instructions, but possibly misdirected or misinformed. But I would rather see them walk away unburdened letting a judge make this decision. I just keep trying to put myself in their place, and as much as I wanted DP for her, comprehending the legal speak would have sent me in a panic. I can read legal documents 24/7 and still not get the gist of what it is actually saying. If I’m ever on a case like this – I’m one that would definitely need a copy of Legal for dummies.
Will stop posting on this, promise. Just want to say that I did read (the best i could) the (scholarly, ouch!) article you suggested re: double jeopardy rights & changes to capitol case procedure. Important stuff, important scrutiny… & complex. Certainly, Billy Sue & Bob Sr are under no obligation to understand all intricacies & vagaries of procedures &, in any case, it wouldn’t impair their ability to judge facts of the case.
I’m just surprised to learn that they were “shocked” at mention of mistrial. Surprised they didn’t know a 2nd jury would be impaneled if they failed to reach consensus. (Some must have known? How come not all?) These don’t seem nuances of DP trial procedure. I think discovering this has affected them. i hate to think that either Billy Sue or Bob Sr feel they “let down the system” & will carry this feeling for even a short length of time..
Ditto, last post on this…. That’s why they may have been misinformed or misdirected, and I can only hope they are not harassed or made to feel guilty for their decision. Back to my fried chicken and chick cave… See you guys in July