Dr Phil Burke Ramsey Interview Part 3: The Conclusion

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I can’t believe I am going to recap this Dr. Phil episode that I literally forgot was on today, but he is bringing up some facts that I had forgotten. And it is more evidence against Burke. And I’m sorry but Dr. Phil wins with an in-depth TV interview with Burke over that shit show on CBS last night.

The Boot Print

They found a footprint in some mold (YUCK! Why didn’t they fix the mold problem?)  of a Hi-Tech hiking boot that apparently belonged to Burke. Burke testified for five hours to the grand jury. Five hours. And in that time he admitted that he owned Hi-Tech boots. However, Lin Wood continued to state that no one in the Ramsey family had Hi-Tech boots.

When Patsy was interviewed in Atlanta in 2000 about the boots she denied that she bought them for him when they were visiting Atlanta. They  attorney for the state, Mr. Levin asked her multiple times and even told her where and when they were purchased and that Burke and one other person has verified this.  Lin Wood objected continuously until Mr. Levin finally had to explain it happened during the grand jury testimony in a round a about way. Wood figured he would not be able to use that information in an interview because it came from the grand jury.  On Dr. Phil, Lin Wood still emphatically stated that no one in the Ramsey family had those boots.  Meanwhile, Burke told Dr. Phil he did have the boots with the compasses on the shoelaces.  He said he doesn’t remember the brand.  In the interview with Patsy in Atlanta, Levin points out that Burke was sort of obsessed with the compasses and would point them in several directions. This would be something parents would remember about their kid and his interest in the compasses on his shoes.

 

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Burke told Dr. Phil that he walked all over the basement, “So, if they determined that to be my footprint, that doesn’t really prove anything.”

Burke says that there have been people said that a nine year old could not use enough force to kill another child. Burke is very shifty eyed when answering where or not he hurt or killed his sister.

The Stun Gun Theory

They show footage of the stun gun theory that supposedly supports the fact that Jon Benet was tasered by comparing it to a practice tasing on a dead pig.  They say “there are some differences but….”

 

 

I’m not really sure if this is the video where Kolar talks about the train track theory. But most of the stuff discussed here starts at the 25 minute mark where I have set this video to start. Kolar disagrees with Lou on just about everything.

There was mention of another person in the neighborhood who had a daughter  “AMY” who was “attacked in her home by a ninja.”  I think the show said she was six and lived a few blocks away. Here is the real info on that.

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“Amy” Attacker

The “Amy” Attacker Theory

  • Another possibility is the intruder who, just 9 months after JBR’s murder, surreptitiously entered a house while mother and daughter (known as “Amy”) were present and sexually assaulted a 14 year girl who attended the Dance West, the same dance studio attended by JBR; this raises the possibility that the same individual stalked JBR after noticing her at the studio.

Incriminating Evidence Against the “Amy” Attacker

  • * 14-Year Old Dancer. “Nine months after the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey, a girl who attended the same dance studio as the young beauty queen and lived just two miles away was assaulted in her bed by an intruder while her mother slept nearby.” Possible similarities to the JBR killing include:
  1. Attended Same Dance Studio. Girl performed at same dance studio as JBR took lessons: Dance West. Thus perp may have seen both girls at the same location.
  2. Public Performances. Like JBR, Amy had performed in several public functions in Boulder in the year before her death, giving the perp another potential opportunity or motive for targeting her.
  3. Close Proximity in Space and Time to JBR Killing. Amy lived 2 miles from Ramseys and the assault occurred on Sept. 14, 1997, only 9 months after JBR died.
  4. Ease of Entry May Denote Prior Experience. “He was like a ghost,” recalls Amy’s father. “We couldn’t figure out where he came from, or where he went.” “By the time the Boulder police arrived, the man was long gone. Because the intruder had gotten in and out of the house so easily, Amy’s father began to think this wasn’t the first time he had done something like this.”
  5. Family Away When Perp Entered House. The family was out of the house from late afternoon on the eve of the crime, until after dark. “That night, Amy’s father was out of town. After catching a movie, Amy and her mother returned home late. What they didn’t know when they entered the house was that there was already an intruder inside” (CBS News).
  6. Perp Waited 4-6 Hours Before Entering Bedroom. The intruder may have waited at least four hours before entering Amy’s second-floor bedroom. “Amy’s father, who asked that his identity be obscured, agreed to talk about what happened that night: “My feeling is he got into the house while they were out and hid inside the house, so he would have been in there for perhaps four to six hours, hiding” (CBS News).
  7. Sexual Assault Occurred at Night While Parent Sleeping. The perp found Amy in bed and assaulted her in the house while mother was sleeping. “Before going to bed, Amy’s mother turned on the burglar alarm. Around midnight, Amy woke up to find a man standing over her bed, his hand over her mouth. “She remembered the intruder addressing her by her name,” says Peterson. “He said, ‘I know who you are.’ He repeated those things a few times, apparently. ‘I’ll knock you out. Shut up.'” (CBS News).

****Exculpatory Evidence Favoring the “Amy” Attacker****

  • Age Discrepancy. Pedophiles typically focus on victims of similar age. Normally, a pedophile whose interest was in 6 year olds would not be particularly interested in 14-year-olds.
  • No “Personal” RN Left in Amy Attack. This theory does not explain the ransom note containing “personal” language directed at John Ramsey; no similar ransom note was found in the “Amy” case, although it is not clear how things would have turned out had the mother not interrupted the attack. “Peterson says Amy’s mother heard whispering, and proceeded through the doorway, and saw a person, who just brushed her aside and quickly made his escape by jumping out a second-floor window” (CBS News).

The whole Amy thing sounds made up to me.  Aside from the fact she is too old, there were a lot of people coming forward that seemed like they were encouraged to make the intruder theory seem possible. Money can do that. The defense was always “They never investigated the Intruder theory!” But they did.  This is just my opinion.

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DNA

I am not sure on what planet that a fragment of some DNA from any number of possible sources means that the Ramseys are excluded from the list of killers. It has nothing to do with whether or not the whoever the DNA belongs to being the killer. There could be any number of reasons that bits of touch DNA were present on her underwear and leggings.  It just excludes them from being related to the DNA!

They talk about how the DA refused to prosecute after the grand jury indicted the parents.  Lin Wood is still arguing that random DNA found in tiny amounts at the crime scene exonerated the family.  Lin Wood calls it an undisputable fact that the Ramseys are excluded.  Plenty of people continue to dispute that to this day. And most of the people who dispute it feel that there has always been a huge coverup to protect the Ramseys from any prosecution.

This is why, “There are two outstanding issues. First, is the DNA even related to the death of JBR or did it instead come from contamination by some innocent outside source? Second, even if the DNA is related to the perp, is its nature and quality such that a future perp could be convicted based on this evidence?

And then this happened… On September 1 of this year.

A Denver prosecutor got Richard Eikelenboom to admit he “had no direct DNA extraction or analysis experience, that he operates a lab that has not been accredited, that he personally failed his basic proficiency tests in 2011 and 2012, and admitted that he was ‘self-trained’ in running DNA profiles,” the Denver District Attorney’s Office said in a statement Thursday.

The DA’s office said the man had been debunked.

“Testimony in Denver District Court earlier this week revealed that Eikelenboom has committed fundamental DNA analysis errors by not following accepted scientific standards in the DNA field,” the DA’s office said.

Eikelenboom was rejected as a DNA expert by a Denver District Court court judge after the testimony.

Eikelenboom’s purported areas of expertise are DNA and bloodstain pattern analysis and trace recovery. He works with his wife, Selma, at Independent Forensic Services, a private laboratory in the Netherlands.

Eikelenboom was the guy who was suddenly able to analyze the fragments of DNA,

This is not a DNA case. There is no DNA that can clear anyone.  Anytime a murder trial involves a “forensic specialist” that testifies often in trial that garner a lot of media attention, they should be treated with the same skepticism as all the other  bottom feeders that crawl out of the woodwork.

In my opinion, allegedly, both the police and attorney’s for the Ramseys leaked false stories to the media to benefit their side of the investigation.

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The Tombstone

John Ramsey says that the reason the date on the tombstone was December 25th and not the 26th is because the killer who wrote the note said, “I’ll call you tomorrow.”  I guess that makes sense. Sort of. It’s horrible that people desecrated  JonBenet’s grave.

John Ramsey believes that JonBenet was murdered to punish him.  He feels that an article on the success of his company five days before the murder triggered the attack on JonBenet.

I’ll leave this with the WTF quote by JonBenet’s father.

“The real story here is not that a child was murdered the real story here is what was done to us by an injust system.”  ~ John Ramsey

SOURCE:  Most of the facts I’ve inserted in this post originate from this site which for years collected all of the evidence and credible discussion in one place. Many links are broken, but the site includes arguments both in support of and detractors from all of the major theories and facts of the case.

In addition, I did not watch the second part of the CBS “investigation” because I found it theatrical and woefully incomplete in scope.

162 Comments

Filed under Dr. Phil, Entertainment News

162 responses to “Dr Phil Burke Ramsey Interview Part 3: The Conclusion

  1. SLM

    I cannot believe John Ramsey said that. My mouth hit the floor when I read that. Just wow.

  2. RACHEL CLARK

    What was up with Burke Ramsey smiling through the whole interview, being such a awful subject?

    • S

      Burke is a nut, intensely jealous, violent and has issues with feces. They did him a disserveice by covering everything up. He didn’t get to be remorseful, he was coached to hide what he did and his shit problem probably never got addressed. Poor baby Jon Benet. What a family.

      • tamaratattles

        He seemed to turn out fine. Went to college, got good grades, working as an engineer…

        You could probably make your case without slandering the guy. He’s got deep pockets.

      • Amy Babineaux

        I don’t believe I would say “Turned out fine.”
        College, good grades and a job with computers are not the key components to being mentally healthy. Just his demeanor alone during the interview hints at a heap of unresolved issues covered up with a degree and a career. Does he have healthy relationships? Is he happy? I doubt it.

      • tamaratattles

        Reports from people here and other who knew him indicate he was social in college and has a girlfriend and is living a quiet happy life. He sure seemed happier than you present yourself. So on the relative happy scale he appears to be winning,

      • Amy Babineaux

        This is a discussion, not a game or completion; there’s no winning, and I certainly did not elude to the fact that I, myself, am mentally healthy or happy for that matter (even though I am…happy that is). My condition is not the point. I do not believe Burke is “fine”. His sister and mother died prematurely and he has lived (in his words) a life in which a wrench was thrown. I believe he killed his sister, not intentionally, and his parents made it look like a kidnapping/murder to protect him. The whole ordeal had a huge affect on him, and being “just fine” and normal after all that, shows signs of being unhealthy (putting it nicely).

      • Spunky2015

        Yeah, being under suspicion for murder and lived in hiding for 20 years wouldn’t have any effects.

      • bobbie

        Anyone with an intelligent mind knows Patsy wrote the ransom note not an intruder. So they both did the cover up. My thought is that after Burke hit her he went upstairs to tell his Mom he hit her and she might be hurt. They ran down and found her dead, They made this 9 year old boy duplicitous in their cover up. That was not his idea. This is where the tragedy happened. The girl was already dead and he would not have gone to jail but would have gotten the help he needed. I bet they never asked him if he wanted to spend the rest of his life running and lying from this accident. I don’t think he intended to kill her. The only reason to cover it up was to keep their standing in their rich community. That is the tragedy.

  3. To NOT have watched the second part of the CBS investigation tells ALL. Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance. ALL the experts(I’m SURE you are Not)agreed. The ransom note and the flashlight ad up to BURKE. Go on google and find in YouTube or somewhere that second night. Then get back to us!

    • gapeachinsc

      SHAME ON YOU, CMAGLAUGHLIN!! Perhaps you should start your own blog…

      • Dee

        CM, I think you are confused. Tamara recapped the Dr Phil show which she watched. As an aside she mentioned she didn’t watch the 2nd part of the CBS special. Perhaps you should read all of the recaps she did watch.

    • Observer2

      cmaglaughlin, I watched both parts of the CBS “investigation” everything I’m about to say is totally my opinion. Within a few minutes of watching Part 1, I could already see that the principals in this show (that guy and gal) had already made their minds up and were making the “evidence” fit their preconceived notion.

      It was a big waste of someones’ money. The main two people went in to this with their minds already made up. You could tell it by the conclusions they were jumping to in some things and completely overlooking other items of evidence.

      Evidently their reputations were not as well-known as they’d have you believe because people kept asking who they were and the big one they wanted to talk to wouldn’t give them the time of day until they brought up Dr. Lee’s involvement.

      Perhaps you should go back and re-watch the 2nd show, because the cause of death was strangulation. They never even addressed the garotte. I find that shocking and I have even lost some respect for Dr. Lee because he allowed them to divert his attention away from the facts.

      • I’m glad I learned in journalism school not to take things personally. Your statement that she died of strangulation must have been concluded without hearing what the experts said: “The blunt force of the flashlight caused her to be brain dead. Dead is dead. So what if her heart was beating.” The garrote WAS mentioned in connection with the DNA. The latest advancements in DNA technology would make null and void much of what they did 20 years ago. “Other items of evidence” did not fit the overwhelming main characters in this plot…the ransom note and the complete disregard for the original evidence brought forth by the head detective, Steve Thomas. John, Patsy, Burke and Alex Hunter are the guilty parties, NOT the police or CBS!

      • tamaratattles

        LOL I’m surprised you can spell journalism school. You certainly didn’t learn how to attribute a quote. I have no idea who you are ranting about. This post is about the Dr. Phil interview, that I watched and recapped and refuted. Refuted is a word that means I presented facts that contradicted the point the show was presenting. The show claims that the Ramseys were irrefutably excluded as suspects. In this post I pointed out how that was a false assertion.

        I went on to cite examples of a cover up by the Ramseys attorneys and other in the community by leaking a variety of bogus intruder theories.

        I did all of that without ranting and personal attacks on the Ramseys.

        I’m really not sure what you keep nattering on about.

      • Shay

        Ninjas, Tamara. Observer is talking about the ninjas who jumped out of a second story window onto a treetop in kung fu shoes with white socks. And maybe a throwing star. I think there were 5 ninjas, but the other 4 were good so you didn’t see them. The 5th guy forgot to throw the smoke.

      • Amy Babineaux

        So, in clarification, what kind of responses (if any) did you anticipate with your article/review? Supportive? Contradictive? Questions? Critique?

      • tamaratattles

        Informed. I churn out well over ten thousand words on the subject over the past week. Most of us have discussed the major points, I;ve outlined supporting and detracting points for many of the major theories.

        I am fine with differing opinions. I am not happy with false statements presented as facts. It clouds a very lengthy conversation.

      • bobbie

        I disagree…they were detailing the evidence as much as possible. They gave us their info and debunked all but one theory in each. What did they fit to their preconceived notion and how do you know what their preconceived notions were. What evidence did you find to have a different outcome. Do you believe an intruder wrote that ransom note or Patsy. It was Patsy in any intelligent mind. So if she wrote the note there was a cover up and who would she cover up for – her son. I came to the same conclusion about all evidence the same as they all did and to be honest it did not change my opinion of who killed Jonbenet. Because I knew immediately after I first read that ransom note it was not a random intruder but Patsy who wrote it which could only bring you to the same conclusion that her brother killed her unintentionally. his parents did him a disservice making him lie his entire life. He never would have gone to jail. They wanted to protect something else – their standing in their rich community and di not want to have a killer son. They would have lost all their friends..

    • Tara

      Umm have you read TT’s past post on the JBR case? Obviously not! TT has never claimed to be an expert in any of these fields. She has stated her opinion on the case and gathered the facts. The CBS second episode did not say anything new that TT had not already post. Instead of coming to someone elses site and telling them what they should and shouldn’t do, maybe you should read all the threads she has post.
      By the way, I have read your comment multiple times. You go off on the owner of the site, you agree with her opinion but tell her to do more research. Hmm

    • Matzah60

      McLaughlin, you are an idiot if you believe the renamed and shortened by two hour CBS ‘investigation’ proved anything. There was nothing new introduced in that pathetic mini-mini series. The amount of information out there aside from the Dr. Phil interviews was carefully and tirelessly dissected, read, and verified by Tamara. Writing crap like “ALL the experts” indicates that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

      “Condemnation without investigation” better explains your theory, not Tamara’s. It’s amazing that after 20 years, only you and CBS have found the murderer. If it were that easy to prove, Burke would have been indicted by a grand jury during the last two decades. You’re a shmuck for writing such a rude and idiotic comment.

    • cmaglaughlin – I believe you either never attended journalism school and if you did show up for class one day, you certainly did not pay attention. Journalism 101 states that you never paint an entire group with one large stroke. Statements that include things like “all the experts” are a give away. Maybe you should get your facts straight (another thing taught in “journalism school” LOLOL, sorry the terms makes me laugh). Be careful, your stupid is showing.

  4. gapeachinsc

    OMG – there has to be something seriously wrong with John Ramsey. How could anyone feel that way about another human being, let alone their own child that they lost?

    • pokerplayer

      what did John Ramsey say?

    • Matzah60

      I think it was a very cold statement, but from a man with a hardened heart. Three years prior to Jon Benet’s death, his 22 year old daughter from his first marriage was killed in an auto accident.

      I don’t have any answers, but from all TT wrote in such great detail, in addition to what I read now and at the time, I don’t believe that John was in on the cover-up until after Jon Benet was strangled and dead, if indeed there was a cover-up, allegedly. I believe that Patsy allegedly was instrumental in said cover-up and allegedly, after placing the 3 page ransom note on the steps, she allegedly called the police to report a kidnapping with a ransom note in their house. Since the police believed it was a kidnapping and a ransom note was in the house, they didn’t follow up with the FBI investigative team until the following evening. By that time, there was no way to find out the time of death.

      Tamara, incredible, detailed, no stone unturned reporting on the interview, CBS show, testimony, and all other resources on the case.

  5. I did watch the second night and they went into a lot of what you have covered. It’s like a train wreck I can’t stop watching. They showed some of the interviews with two different therapists with Burke at the time. Patsy was to have said to a DSS worker at one point there would be no point in her living is she didn’t have Burke.

    I was skeptical about Burke but I don’t think I am now. The whole thing, with the other specials and your recap makes sense. It’s all so sad. Just sad.

  6. cammierari

    I shut off that CBS piece of crap after listening to the bald headed guy with glasses for about 10 minutes. What a phony sounding guy he was! The whole thing (that I watched) was like a bad school play.

    I have never heard that another girl from JB’s dance school was assaulted! I will have to familiarize myself with those facts, because it sounds like an interesting theory to me.

    I’m sure the Ramseys feel that because the investigation centered on them exclusively for the most part, the real perpetrator will never be caught, and therefore they (the Ramseys) will never be cleared. I agree that it’s an injustice, but the death of his daughter was a pretty real story as well, and I’m sure he knows that.

    • Shay

      Cammie, there are 2 pedophile ninjas who have been pointed to as “prime suspects” by the Ramseys. John Steven Gigax and John Helgoth. Police DID investigate and their DNA was not a match, yet the investigators hired by the Ramseys are still calling them “prime suspects.” The fact is, John Ramsey admitted in a recorded interview that the investigators they hired were not hired to do ANY investigation into the crime, but to mount a defense for the Ramseys. It looks like they are going with “the best defense is a good offense.” Everything they do and say is to throw the scent off themselves. Allegedly. In my opinion.

      • Shay

        Correction: Michael Helgoth

        They both lived near the Ramseys, we’re friends/partners, both liked dressing and acting as “ninjas”, and were both purported pedophiles.

      • Agreed. John Ramsey also , in police taped interview, told the police to check out their best friends with whom they had just spent Christmas day with at their home (the friends) and who the man was present when John “discovered” JB’s body. God rest her soul.
        The second part was theatrical but it was full of information I thought.

      • Shay

        Sunday, I would LOVE to hear what those best friends have to say. Especially homeboy who was with John when he “found” JBR.

      • Barbara

        The family friends with whom the Ramsays spent Christmas day with, the Whites, were called to come to the home before the body was found in the basement. John Ramsay wanted Burke removed and these friends took him over to their house which was a few miles away to be with their son. Then White came back to the Ramsays home where he searched the basement with John Ramsay and together they found Jon Benet dead.These friends used to live two houses from the Ramsays and were parents to a boy and girl who becames friends with the Ramsays kids because they were the same ages. The families were extremely close, socialized and took vacations together. These friends became highly concerned about the steps the Ramsays were taking following the murder and voiced their concerns to them. They later became very critical of Alex Hunter, the prosecutor. These friends were gradually iced out completely and two years after the murder were even subjected to an elaborate child pedophile ring theory that was published in the media, which was later debunked, but not before totally ruining their reputation and family name. A lengthy greatly detailed article of the events relating to the Whites was written in Dec. 2014 by Alan Prendergast. It is extremely interesting as they never wanted to be in the media at all because they wanted the grand jury to investigate and find the murderer so they could eventually testify as witnesses. After the child pedophilia ring story hit the papers, they became concerned that they were going to become suspects rather than the witnesses they were (are).?.

      • Shay

        Thanks for that, Barbara. Did you read anything about what they were going to testify to? I’ve read some state John Ramsey somehow knew JBR was in the storage room before he turned the light on? I wonder if John took his friend directly to the room or at least pretended to search other floors/room before that. How did John respond? Did he try to wake her? Perform CPR? Call for help? What did the Ramseys say to them on the phone before they came over? So many questions.

      • Shay

        Thanks for that, Barbara. Did you read anything about what they were going to testify to? I’ve read some state John Ramsey somehow knew JBR was in the storage room before he turned the light on? I wonder if John took his friend directly to the room or at least pretended to search other floors/room before that. How did John respond? Did he try to wake her? Perform CPR? Call for help? What did the Ramseys say to the Whites on the phone before they came over? So many questions.

      • cammierari

        You know what’s weird is that I THOUGHT I had followed the case obsessively and yet I’ve never heard the Dance School Intruder theory or now, the two ninjas theory! I haven’t watched every recent special on the case, but at the time, I was pretty confident no credible clues had missed my scrutiny.

        I am often in the minority in my thoughts (no idea why it just seems to be a true fact) but I just don’t think it was a family member.That’s not to say that perhaps John and Patsy may have been afraid it was Burke, especially if he had had “issues” before (thinking specifically of the “feces” info) but the whole thing was too damn weird to be something dreamed up by a parent.

        I also often think of the phrase that a DA could get a ham sandwich indicted-so I suppose if the DA truly believed it wasn’t John or Patsy, couldn’t he easily not get that ham sandwich indicted as well?

      • Shay

        Cam, I have not followed this case, nor seen any shows or read any books. I have read and watched excerpts of interviews and depositions, news articles, and AMAs. If you examine the facts and look at who is putting out the info, news, or television show and ask yourself what their motivations are, it all becomes crystal clear. They point to Patsy writing the note and at least one of those 3 are responsible for the murder and cover-up. Any other theory is wishful thinking.

      • Spunky2015

        If you think you are going to be indicted wouldn’t you plan a defense especially since the cops had their minds made up already?

        Also, why would the Ramsey’s have this elaborate plan on her kidnapping/murder when they could of just put her in the car and driven somewhere to dispose, IMO. Doesn’t make any sense that family did this. Some creep got interrupted while abusing her and didn’t have the time to take body with him. I do believe this was done to punish John Ramsey.

      • tamaratattles

        Shay, I don’t have time to cite a source right now and this would be hard to do because it was not until FOURTEEN YEARS AFTER THE GRAND JURY INDICTED THE RAMSEYS THAT THE PUBLIC WAS TOLD THEY WERE INDICTED AND THAT THE DA DECLINED TO PROSECUTE! THATS HOW GOOD TEAM RAMSEY/TEAM IDI were at throttling RDI information.

        So I hesitate to say this as fact, for lack of time to prove it but supposedly Flint testified that John said something like “she’s in here” or “I found her!” or gave some verbal alert to Flint White BEFORE HE TURNED ON THE LIGHT IN THE DARK TINY CRANNY OF A ROOM/Wine Cellar.

        Allegedly. I think. Maybe.

      • Shay

        Amazing, TT. I wasn’t sure if that was a true story or some more ninja tales. Is it possible for the media to file a FOIA request for the indictment transcripts?

  7. Bugg

    I was hoping I had misheard that quote from John. I actually highly recommend watching the second part of the CBS show. I hated the way it was done and not a fan of the people on it however I have to admit the conclusion they arrived does make complete sense. My opinion about what happened has changed completely after seeing this.

    • bobbie

      Here is what John Ramsays friend Mr. White said. ” I went downstairs with John to look for the girl and was surprised he went directly to the one basement door and had not checked anything else like other doors. mOst of the doors were already open. He walked up to this door and there were two locks latched at the top and after unlocking them he pushed the door open so we could go in. It was hard to see and I heard John say he found her.Then he turned the light on. I was surprised that he scooped her up and went upstairs without checking to see if she was alive. I told him he should not move her. Once she was taken upstairs she was placed on the floor on top of a big rug. When the police asked me to describe what I saw I told them and also said I was not sure how the door got locked with her inside!” I may have missed a word or 2 from what I read but that is pretty close to what he said. I thought the same thing how did an intruder come through the window and lock the door on his way out. I knew then the fix was on and Burke killed her unintentionally. no 9 year old kills a sister on purpose. My brothers hit me all the time and sometimes I got hurt but not so bad that I was killed. The only person who had motive was Burke.

  8. Errriccc

    I agree that the CBS special was theatric and bit much … But what they did shed light on in the second part were the types of items from the crime scene that would have gotten them better DNA, and disproving the intruder theory. As well as providing a likely (although seemingly silly) scenario for how and why Burke may have accidentally killed his sister.

    • Bugg

      The scenario makes it even more sad. JonBenet goes downstairs, takes a piece of pineapple from the bowl with her fingers (hence no prints on bowl or spoon) and gets hit in the head with the nearby flashlight. I don’t think it was intended to kill her. Still don’t understand the ruse that followed.

      • S

        Bugg: Burke hated her and he has some serious mental issues. He has an issue with feces. He put it in JB’s bed and on her toys. The parents took all their love and hyper attention from the prince and put it into the princess. Classic and deadlty sibing rivalry only not with a normal big brother but one with mental issues.

      • tamaratattles

        Now you can read people’s minds… interesting.

      • tamaratattles

        Now you can read people’s minds… interesting.

      • Bugg

        S, not saying there weren’t underlying issues but I think its highly unlikely this was his master plan at 9 years old.

      • Shay

        TT, aren’t most kids violent? Or is it just kids who get abused? My sister and I used to beat the shit out of eachother until she was 10 and I was 8. I wrapped the laces of my rollerskate around my hand and clobbered her in the head. She once chased me into the spare room where my mom left her ironing unattended and my sister put the hot iron on my hand, giving me a 3rd degree burn which required a skin graft. We laugh about it to this day.

        When people talk about the feces I giggle thinking of Mr. Hankey, the Christmas Poo. Hey! Mr. Hankey was from Denver… maybe he did it!

      • Jujue

        Sometimes he’s nutty, sometimes he’s corny.. He can be brown or greenish-brown. But if you eat fiber on Christmas Eve, he might come to your town!

      • Shay

        Jujue, I’m going to youtube to watch this right meow:)

      • tamaratattles

        I grew up living with my nephews and nieces for awhile. I would have killed one of the nephews, and tried, but the fucker could run like the wind.

        He lived and turned out to be a great guy.

      • Shay

        Ok, thanks. My sister and I are besties and neither of us are violent. I think the evidence points to Burke. But all these ESP, crystal ball commenters who plainly state his psychological state or speculate that he was abnormally jealous or violent must have had perfect childhoods.

      • Amy Babineaux

        What you are familiar with is what you think is “typical”. It is not the case that most kids are violent. If that’s how you grew up, you think it’s normal, but it’s not.
        Of course, there are different levels of physical contact, and a fine line between “rough-housing” and “abuse”.

        The examples of kids being violent and “living” or “turning out fine” is great, however, the point here is that a child did NOT live and another child did NOT turn out ok.
        ALSO, a lot of those abused kids who “lived” have addictions (alcohol, sex, shopping/stealing, gambling, drugs, work, food)…they escape and are far from fine.

        Things are rarely “fine” when you uncover the denial and peel back the facades.

      • Shay

        Amy, no one asked you.

      • Amy Babineaux

        I must have snuck in here, bypassing a check point, however, I believe this is a public discussion, and an invitation is not required to comment. The more views, the better the perspective.

      • Shay

        Yeah, TT lets all kinds of riff-raff post here. It’s a shame that you can’t tell when people are joking. You should just skip my comments because you’re going to just get stressed out when you can’t help yourself from writing a thesis with a thousand commas about how Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo is not real.

      • Amy Babineaux

        Yeah, I can’t detect sarcasm in a text from someone I don’t know…it’s a weakness of mine (seriously). I’m a face to face communicator in a world of screens and keyboards.
        ,A,m,y,B,

      • Shay

        When someone writes “Hey TT,” that means they are addressing TT. Nothing to do with sarcasm. Your 2 cent opinion and 11 commas were not summoned. When I told you to skip my comments, I was serious. And if you can’t tell the difference between a joke and not a joke in writing, maybe just shut the fuck up. I haven’t been rude to someone in a while, but you’re fucking annoying.

      • Amy Babineaux

        Anger is a sign of fear. Use of profanity is a sign of immaturity.

      • Amy Babineaux

        Just because you tell someone what to do on a public forum “skip my comments I’m serious” does not mean you’ll get compliance. Your sensitivity to my “violence is not normal in childhoods…what you know is what is typical to you” and my mention of addiction has obviously triggered you in some way if you haven’t been this mad in a while. There was no direct comment at you, I was discussing childhoods in general and how violence is dysfunctional and usually leads to adult problems which are often hidden with college degrees and successful careers.

      • Janet

        Well said. All childhoods are not relative, some are much worse and wrong, and some are mildly dysfunctional. That some people have an inner strength that makes them rise above a tough childhood, doesn’t make it any less sad ,that they had to suffer it.

      • Janet

        This is all very interesting. Sibling rivalry can become deadly, and parents have to be aware and take it seriously to head off a tragedy. My older sister had a major issue with it with her boys. They were exhausting to baby sit as you had to watch the older one from hurting his little brother constantly. The older one was kind of an odd kid too, and his little brother was an adoreable chubby Gerber baby. From day one, my sister knew she could not trust the older one for a second. She would lock the baby in the bathroom when she showered. They were about the same age difference as Burke and Jon Bonet. Anyway, another thing that made me suspect the family besides the note and other details, was the parents behaviour. They seemed more interested in their own reputation, keeping themselves from being arrested or suspected, than finding out who did it. I remember they lawyered up and stopped cooperating with the police early on, and hired a PR firm. I know that’s not proof of anything, but its another thing that makes you feel they’re hiding something.

      • Amy Babineaux

        I agree, good point about sibling abuse, and well said.

    • Bugg

      Also couldn’t understand why he would participate in the interview if he was guilty but they were probably tipped off about how incriminating the CBS special would be and decided to do damage control.

    • Shay

      Eric, I didn’t see the show. What was the silly scenario?

      • Meredo

        @Shay, so are you kidding about how violent you think most kids are? I hope so, because most siblings do not beat the shit out of each other or burn them with irons! And I am one of eight and we were considered wild but nothing like what you describe!
        As for the Ramsey case, much as I hate to admit it, I do think Burke killed his sister and the parents covered it up. So sad.

      • Shay

        Hey Meredo! How are you?! I was kidding and serious– as was TT. I know most kids aren’t violent; however, violence, anger, and jealousy are so common, it is not an precursor to psychopathic tendencies or addiction.

        My sister and I fought hard and loved hard. Our dad beat the shit out of us. For many asians and other minorities born before 1985, it was fairly common. There is even a word for ours- chinese abuse. Because it was so commonplace in our culture, everyone I know turned out fine and is very successful and happy.

        Because a lot of Americans did not grow up with this, they apply their pysch 101 trauma shit to groups they know nothing about. The reason asians used to be the top of the class was because Bs = beatings;)

        This Ramsey stuff is bringing in a lot of randoms off the streets. That’s good for TT and good for the blog. What I don’t like is how some morons think they have the right to jump in on every conversation with their armchair pyschology and 46 commas. Notice she is still compulsively trying to perform psychoanalysis on me.

      • Meredo

        @Shay, sorry if that sounded mean, hope you know I really, really like you a lot!!

      • Shay

        Meredo, it was very kind! And even if it wasnt, we have enough history that I’d give you the benefit of the doubt! This isn’t our first trial or first interaction. We homies!

  9. Observer2

    TT, I was looking for the DNA information from under Jon Benet’s fingernails on the site you linked to in your post (the list of evidence), but found this:

    1) There was a pubic hair on the blanket she was wrapped in and its DNA did not match any of the Ramseys.
    2) Jon Benet normally wore Sz 4/6 panties (she had 15 pairs that size in her drawer). Yet she was wearing “Wednesday” underwear Sz 12/14 that Patsy had bought for her neice Jenny Davis. Did they check out her male relatives in the Davis line?
    3) Only Jon Benet’s blood was found on her body and the Barbie nightgown nearby her body. So whose pajamas was she wearing?

    Why wasn’t any of this discussed in CBS’ Special? It’s this kind of stuff that makes the CBS Special not so special.

    • tamaratattles

      Where in the holy hell are you getting your information? pubes and PJs? Please site a source for facts not in evidence.

      • Observer2

        TT, I got it from the site you linked to at the end of your post – where you said you got all your information. I’d post the link here, but it’s not allowed, so I’ll e-mail it to you.

        LOL, I can’t win for losing! 😉

      • Shay

        Poor Observer. First the ninja and now this! :)

      • Observer2

        Since you asked for the citation and it is part of the link you posted, I’ll go ahead and post it here too:

        Info on the Hair:
        http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682513/The%20Body

        Info on the panties: http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682456/Clothing#BodyCoveredbyBlanketSweatshirt

        Done for the evening now. :)

      • tamaratattles

        As I stated, the source I link to makes statements from both sides of every theory and piece of evidence when possible. As I also stated there are many, many people that have studied this case for the past 20 that have alleged that the attorneys for the Ramseys led by Lin Wood and including other local Denver attorneys and judges went to great lengths to place into the media the possibility of an intruder entering the Ramsey home.

        Just as Lin Wood “misstated” on Dr Phil that no Ramseys ever owned Hi Tec boots, which was disproven on the same show by Burke who stated that he did have the shoes with the compass muchlike he stated in the grand jury proceedings.

        he source of your pubic hair story is this motion made in court by Lin Wood where he refers to a pubic or ancillary hair not belonging to the Ramseys. It was ridiculous wording to include the word pubic when the hair had been identified as a forearm hair from PATSY RAMSEY.

        Much of the things stated as fact by the author of the document here is false and misleading. However none of the these statements were argued in court. Thereby they were accepted by the judge and helped to outline her ruling for the plantiff.

        http://www.acandyrose.com/01062003ComplaintForDefamationRamsey-v-Fox-FINAL.htm

        This case is shaped by the fact that one side seemed to own the DA, several judges and others in the community that prevented the police from investigating and ultimately blocked them from prosecuting anyone because the grand jury indictment was ignored by the DA’s office.

        It is therefore important to know the source of the information and who is controlling that source an not just refer to the enclyopedia I linked to for it’s breadth of information on all the theories from ninjas to random “male pubic hair” that just so happened to be ignored by the police. Of course those are all great stories if you can get a judge to go along with them.

        So, again, I urge you to delve into the subject at hand as deeply as the rest of us and learn a little bit about it, or simply shut and read and learn something.

      • tamaratattles

        Oh and you know what else was in that same motion? That is when Lin Wood started claiming that the handwriting experts excluded Patsy and the writer of the ransom note.

        Here is some discussion from 2008 from WEBSLEUTHS ON THAT.

        How can you agree with the experts when they DIDN’T say that an intruder wrote the note??? Just how much research have you done, Junebug? Because if you had, you’d know that Patsy Ramsey was never ruled out as the writer, not even by the experts her husband hired.

        By contrast, the expert who did the most extensive analysis, Chet Ubowski, told his boss that Patsy was the likely writer.

        That’s not even COUNTING Gideon Epstein, Larry Ziegler, Cina Wong and Tom Miller!

        jUNEBUG THE IDIOT
        Patsy was given a 4.5 likelihood 5 eliminating her.

        This is embarrassing! For one thing, that “4.5 out of 5” scale is a bunch of nonsense. The Ramseys’ own hired experts came up with that out of thin air. There is no ushc scale. And you don’t have to take my word for that, either. In US v. Thornton, the court stipulated to the use of a NINE-point scale, with 1 being “identification,” 5 being “inconclusive” and 9 being “elimination.”

        I can see we have a lot of work to do here!

        How can you agree with the experts when they DIDN’T say that an intruder wrote the note??? Just how much research have you done, Junebug? Because if you had, you’d know that Patsy Ramsey was never ruled out as the writer, not even by the experts her husband hired.

        By contrast, the expert who did the most extensive analysis, Chet Ubowski, told his boss that Patsy was the likely writer.

        That’s not even COUNTING Gideon Epstein, Larry Ziegler, Cina Wong and Tom Miller!

      • Shay

        TT, Do you know if the handwriting samples and notepad have been leaked or made public? Either way, has any current analyses been performed?

  10. BlueJayhawk

    TT, I am sorry I have to contradict you here. John Ramsey stated that he put the 25th on the stone because she died during Christmas, to punctuate that not only was her death awful, it happened during Christmastime. Further, I know Burke seems off…but wouldn’t you after 20 years of suspicion? I actually know a few people who smile weirdly when they are nervous or stressed. Lastly, she had a garrotte tied around her neck. A 9-year-old knew how to do that? And he was able to kill her, tie the garrotte and yet left no DNA? She wasn’t washed after her death, because remember she had lost control of her bladder due to death and there was urine in her underwear. People keep bypassing the DNA issue like it doesn’t matter, but it really does because there was DNA present next to her body and under her fingernails that didn’t belong to anyone in the family.

    • My understanding was that it wasn’t Burke who tied the garrote. That was part of the cover up. I am only going by this show that we were discussing here. Also, she was brain dead after the blow to the head (so the experts have said).
      I didn’t hear anything about DNA under her fingernails. That is part of the problem all these experts have found different results.

      Also what was with all the fecal matter found in her room and on her Christmas candy. That was very disturbing.

      • Amy Babineaux

        I work with kids who have behavior disorders and emotional disturbances, and MANY very disturbing and unthinkable acts are kept secretive due to embarrassment and stigma. Denial is also HUGE! So, for me it’s plausible that Burke was abusive (with feces, threats, golf clubs… Flashlights perhaps).

      • bobbie

        Burke had some problems for sure and he hated his sister. Friends and neighbors had said he hurt her several times and there was an incident with a golf club about a yearr prior and a bat not long before that. What I find interesting is he liked to hit her in the face. He was sick of people telling her how pretty she was. It annoyed him according to his friends. When she was killed he poked her with the end of a train track and guess where he poked her. In the FACE and neck. This is a typical behavior for someone with a deep seated hate.

    • tamaratattles

      Blue, I’m not sure what were are disagreeing on other than the DNA. If you read this post, you will find plenty of evidence that discredits any DNA purported evidence. THis is not a DNA case.

      • BlueJayhawk

        TT Sorry I didn’t make that clear, ugh! I was only disagreeing with you on what John Ramsey said with regards to the date he put on the tombstone. I did read the post, and while I firmly believe DNA matters here and there wasn’t any from the family found on her or the garrotte or her fingernails or her underwear or the object used to penetrate her. I did not watch as closely as you did and therefore I’m totally willing to admit that I missed something. :) Thank you for recapping all of this.

  11. Disgusted

    That quote by John Ramsey shows what an egocentric jerk he is. I totally believe they covered for Burke. If it was an accident, he would have received treatment at his age, so there no good reason for them to do that. John Ramsey, the REAL story here is that a child was murdered. Period! If I were her parents, I would not care about what the system did or did not do to me. Get the hell over yourself.

  12. Disgusted

    Get an independent test of a sample of Burke’s DNA now. I believe it was more than the Ramsey’s who were in on covering up. They had help from people who revered them in that town. People in a position to lie about the DNA results.

    • tamaratattles

      There is no DNA related to the murder . This is not a DNA case.

      • ms

        Yeah, there is. The police had DNA results from a spot of blood in her underwear within weeks, and it was attributed to an unknown male. They chose to bury that info and ignore it. The DNA from the new touch techniques taken from different sides of the waist on her leggings matched the blood DNA. If there are questions about the veracity or accuracy of those tests, then they need to be run again, because right now there is DNA available from two different pieces of clothing that is from the same individual male not related to the victim. That information has already been uploaded to CODIS as associated with this murder.

        There was an attempt to discredit the newer DNA by saying it could be from the manufacturer, etc. but it does match the earlier blood DNA. Again, if in doubt, retest at another lab. If the same results are found, the Boulder PD can publicly apologize to the Ramseys for causing them twenty years of unnecessary pain and agony on top of losing their beloved child.

      • tamaratattles

        You have a lot to say and little if any accurate information. You might start by reading some of the posts I have written on the subject before making comments that so blatantly reveal the fact you have not.

    • TT’s right.. there is no DNA in this case that can prove anything. There is only “transfer DNA” which means nothing. Transfer DNA can be found on practically any singular item in your home right now that you bought a grocery store, department store, etc. If there was DNA found inside her body or mixed with her blood, then that would be the kind of DNA that cases are solved using. But, there was no blood because the flashlight fractured the skull but did not break the skin because of the skin elasticity of a 6 year-old and the fact that it was a blunt object. No DNA found in her vaginal cavity either. One thing worth noting is that the knot of the garrote was never unknotted or untied (If you can believe that Barney Fife crap) and the only investigator worth his salt, IMO, believes that they need to untie that knot around the garrote and test the DNA inside it because that would not be transfer DNA.

  13. Amy Babineaux

    I believe Burke killed JonBenet. I remember when it happened and listening to the original Ramsy statements. I thought it odd that they were adement about the fact that neither one of them killed her, but did not mention Burke. They also stated that they want to know WHY it happened (not who) because perhaps they knew who (Burke) but did not know exactly what triggered the episode. Finally, the quote from above:
    “The real story here is not that a child was murdered the real story here is what was done to us by an injust system.” ~ John Ramsey
    He is taking attention away from the crime (that he knows his son committed) and putting the spotlight on the Avalanche it created in the news and the destruction of their lives.

  14. JB

    I was disappointed with the CBS special as well. I knew of the case, but never remembered any details about it from 20 years ago. It was interesting seeing them present the details of the case and what was collected and what made sense and what didn’t. Going into watching this special I already had it in my mind that it looked like a cover up from the start and I was hoping to see new evidence that would disprove that. Instead of providing new evidence and new information about the case the CBS special seemed more like they were trying to prove their own theory that someone in the house did it than actually getting new details and facts. I would just like to know what happened to this innocent little girl so justice can be served for her. Someone has to know something but isn’t talking out of fear. It is so sad and so selfish.

    • I have watched everything, read TT’s research and still I can’t bring myself to a decisive conclusion. But the two things that have me infinitely pondering, like a sophist, is not the ransom note itself, but the three crumpled up ransom notes in the garbage. Practice notes thrown away.. I can’t help but think someone was perfecting something, handwriting perhaps? Secondly, the flashlight in the home which could very possibly be the murder weapon was not claimed by the Ramseys. On Dr. Phil, they vehemently denied ownership of the flashlight or ever having seen it before – Patsy and John both. Why? Is it because they knew it was the murder weapon?

      • Obviously, Patsey is gone but the reporting on Dr. Phil was that neither John nor Patsy could explain what the flashlight was doing on the table,or it belonging to them.

      • tamaratattles

        I don’t recall that at all. However, I didn’t listen to the weird lady who randomly spouted shit inbetween the Interviewers. She mad a lot of stuff up.

        John Ramsey testified that he used a flashlight to put one of the kids to bed that night. I forget which one but I posted about it here somewhere because I remember wondering why in a big as fuck house, they didn’t just turn on a light?

      • Shay

        Hi LisaPat! Haven’t seen you for a while. Hope things are good.

      • TT I just watched part 1 again of the CBS story and it’s in there too. It’s in there towards the end when they talk about the flashlight , before they do the re-enactment with the 10 year-old boy, and it’s on Dr. Phil. Both programs say Patsey and John say they have no idea where the flashlight came from.. on the CBS show, it is reported that John tells police 120 days after the murder that the flashlight may have been a gift, but still has no idea how it got on the table.

      • Salutations Shay! long time no comment.

      • terri

        Course PR also denied knowing where the bowl and pineapple came from.

      • bobbie

        You make some great points here. Why would the parents say they never gave the bowl of pineapple to Burke or the spoon which Patsy said was too big for the bowl and deny the flashlight when both are in photos taken in the kitchen. Her fingerprints and Burkes were all over the bowl and spoon and no ones were on the flashlight-it was wiped clean…including the batteries…hmmm

      • Jujue

        Maybe Patsy’s are on there because she put those dishes away. Maybe Burke got his own pineapple and as a 9 year old, could caste less if he had the proper sized spoon.

  15. cheychey

    Even though I don’t think Burke had anything to do with the tying of knots ( I think his involvement ended after an ‘accidental’blow to the head the rest was a cover up) it would not be that unlikely as a Boy Scout or a youngster who went yachting with his father regularly to be able to tie knots.
    After watching part 2 of the tv special I think one thing that stuck with me was that the lawyer they spoke to explained to them that Burke as a 9 yr old could not be held responsible for his actions, therefore he would not really be in any danger by talking about it today and Patsy who I believe assisted him has passed on. I really don’t think he was uncomfortable about being in front of the cameras quite the opposite. I think he likes the attention. I think his demeanor directly after her death was exactly the same but a younger version. He giggles and talks about video games when she asks about the death of his sister. Going back to the feces comment that came from testimony from the maid who said he smeared it on the wall and placed a softball sized piece in JB’s bed before.

    • Amy Babineaux

      Also, Burke couldn’t identify a picture of a bowl of pineapple on his dining table. When questioned about the bowl’s contents, there was an awkwardly long period of silence; especially suspicious when he was so quick to answer every single other question. Factual questions are much easier for kids to answer (“what is in the bowl?”) than abstract, open-ended questions such as, “What do you think happened…”. Burke had an immediate answer for all the complex questions about secrets and methods of murder, but was completely baffled with, “what’s in the bowl?”

      • pokerplayer

        I agree, the photo of the bowl of pineapple and milk left him speechless…

      • Jujue

        It could be possible that he snuck downstairs and got the bowl of food without permission & was therefore scared of getting into trouble. Kids aren’t necessarily logical and he may not have realized that there was a bigger picture relative to the pineapple. Although you’d think he would hide his evidence of a snack and not leave it sitting out. Maybe he got sidetracked playing with new Christmas toys? It’s so hard for me to believe a gangly kid could do such a horrible thing and never ever crack, and the parents do even worse. I have 2 children, one very young and one a bit older & can’t imagine creating a coverup for her accidental murder of the other one. And to have TWO parents be on board for the biggest lie of their lives? It’s a lot to accept.

      • Amy Babineaux

        I understand that you may not be able to imagine what happened as far as cover up etc. I work with kids who have behavior disorders and emotional disturbances and the Burke situation is very plausible. You may have kids with no disabilities/disturbances; the world of mental illness is filled with denial and illogical decisions that many healthy people cannot fathom.

  16. Janet

    That is really weird about the feces smearing. I’ve only heard of toddlers doing that in their crib. I’d be interested to know what a psychiatrist has to say about that. I’m the youngest of four and that’s a new one for me. I would tend to think at nine that would indicate a huge amount of anger and hostility. Burke is very unemotional and devoid of empathy for others It seems, to show no sadness or grief then or now. He actually seemed boerd to me about the ransom note, and said he had never read the whole thing. Well if he knew the whole thing was a B.S. cover up why would he bother to read it?

  17. Tx for recapping TT – I had this on my DVR but think I’ll make space. I’m kinda on Jonbenet overload but have read extensively on the case all these years. This sounds like a waste of time – kinda like that nut who confessed a few years back and the “DNA” bs. Something I haven’t seen mentioned lately is the incredible amount of pediatric visits Jonbenet had. My oldest daughter was a couple of years older and I remember the # blew my mind at the time in comparison.

  18. tamaratattles

    This whole feces thing is irrelevant. It’s something that was only mentioned in Kolar’s book and I’m not sure how he would know.

    Someone on Reddit named Tayler describes it thusly, “In Kolar’s book he discussed this aspect of the case, I’ve never seen it anywhere else. Apparently when Patsy was going through chemo when JonBenet was just a toddler and Burke probably 5 or 6, there were instances of not only bed-wetting (by both children) but also of Burke smearing feces on the walls in the bathroom. Allegedly this was attributed to his stress and fear about Patsy and her illness. When investigators were examining JonBenet’s room after the murder they supposedly found a box of chocolates in her room with feces smeared on it as well – given his history they thought it could have been him who did it as some sort of angry reaction to JonBenet.”

    Now back to me again,scatolia, or fecal smearing is pretty common in young kids. It’s mentioned in pretty much every child development course. From a psychological point it is often due to anxiety, and a mother in chemo would certainly produce anxiety, it can also be a precusor of autism, it could be a stressful environment, or a brought on by improper hygiene that causes itching however, if it is brought up to a psychologist they will investigate for signs of abuse either physical or sexual.

    The good news is, if you missed out on fecal smearing as a child, there is a good chance you will have another opportunity if you get dementia in your old age.

    Either way, it is not some sign you are going to kill your sister in the middle of then night. And finally, I do not believe the whole feces on JBR’s candy thing. It’s a ridiculous thing to even mention and I do wonder how anyone would know something like that when it is typically quietly handled by the family.

    • Shellie

      It’s relevant to this case because he did it on a box of chocolates she had been gifted the day before the murder. This could show that he was in an agitated state that day/night or that he despised his sister in general.

      • tamaratattles

        Shellie, could you link me to a deposition, a police report, or a main stream news media that discusses this feces smeared box of chocolates that you finds so vital to this case?

        I’ll wait. I find your fecal covered chocolates theory amusing.

      • Amy Babineaux

        Evidence/police reports of children under the age of ten are not available to the public.

      • tamaratattles

        AMy you realize that we have been talking about depositions and police reports and credible evidence for a week now. I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

      • Amy Babineaux

        I’m just pointing out that many reports on children’s behavior are confidential, so if there was a report on Burke and feces, it wouldn’t be available to view. I stumbled across this site after watching Dr Phil part 3 and didn’t realize you were discussing things from last week. My apologies for interjecting prematurely. Very thought provoking content, by the way:)

    • ms

      Why is it nobody seems to pick up on the ASD traits Burke shows? He’s called evil, violent, strange, all sorts of things because of his demeanor, but anyone who is familiar with the autism spectrum has to wonder if he’s simply autistic to some degree. The conflict avoidance, the way he processes emotion, the disinterest in people in favor of computers and models, the affect, expressions, all of it is easily explainable when viewed through that lens.

      He didn’t kill his sister. He didn’t bash her head in. Her parents didn’t do it either. Where did the unknown male DNA come from? It was found in a blood spot in her underwear, and on the waist of her leggings. It was analyzed by other DNA experts, and they all agree that it excludes the Ramseys. I understand that it’s really hard to keep up with what’s fact and what’s fiction with a former friend of the family selling BS tales to the tabloids for the past 20 years, and the police leaking false information in an attempt to get the Ramseys to turn on each other, but when does this end? I don’t think this will be solved until a hit comes up in CODIS, or the science advances enough to hit on a relative in CODIS.

      • tamaratattles

        Just because you don’t READ anything and just start blathering on in comments doesn’t mean the literate folks haven’t been discussing all of those things before you arrived. Perhaps you should just go scribble in a diary. You don’t seem interested in separating fact from fiction which is something we have been doing here for a week.

      • It’s transfer DNA and it came from people who touched the panties while they were being manufactured.

    • Cat

      Oh, goodie. Something to look forward to. Thanks, TT. :)

  19. Panda

    Tamara you inspired me to get Detective Kolar’s book, Foreign Faction. Anyone else reading it? TT book club? 😊

    • tamaratattles

      Kolar’s book is not the gospel. You should read any and all accounts with the bias of the author in mind. That includes mine and everyone else’s here.

  20. Tara

    May I have your attention, Please! Will the real slim shady please stand up….sorry ,I couldn’t help my 42 yo self. I had martinis tonight;)
    All joking aside, if this is your first time at TT’s, please read all of TT’s post on this case. Many of us are debating things that were discussed a week ago. There are lots interesting and shocking things that TT has posted for us to ponder.
    Do not go into shock, I am making no sense.
    This case is so fucked up!
    My opinion, TT’s second post is the most interesting. TT’s opinion seems to change. Say what you want but TT is a smart lady.

    • tamaratattles

      Tara, you need to go get a big bottle of water and drink it and don’t post in the criminal posts anymore until you sober up. Confine yourself to the Brangelina comments until noon tomorrow.

    • tamaratattles

      Oh and my opinion hasn’t changed. I have posted about opposing theories and things that support them, but I have dismissed them.

      I do not know what happened that night, but I am convinced that there was no intruder beyond a reasonable doubt. I also have a scenario that for me makes the most logical sense.

      In between that, I have people with random pieces of unsupported shit they heard somewhere that doesn’t matter at all. And others screaming in repeating things we explored at nauseum and asking WHY AREN’T YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS!? It the people with no clue what they are talking about saying the same that is false over and over.

  21. My brother was in his crib when he was a baby. I walked into his room to go get him as I heard him up and laughing. He may have been close to one. Well the reason he was laughing so much is because he has smeared poop on every part of the wall he could reach plus the whole crib! I wanted to die. I obviously screamed for my mother. She was not happy but she certainly wasn’t alarmed. My brother turned out to be a good man and a great father. Poop smearing should not be the focal point of the investigation.

    • Meri

      Poop smearing by a baby and deliberately placing feces on the possessions of another when you are NINE years old are two entirely different behaviors. Burke had some problems and whether or not they led to the death of JonBenet remains to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

      • Meri

        There are many opinions on Burke’s behavior with feces. It can signal autism and it can signal other types of mental health problems. It is NOT to be compared to what a baby does nor is it the same in the opinion of EVERY psychologist’s opinion that I researched on the internet. Something was wrong…very wrong and should have been addressed and NOT covered up. Look it up.

  22. Cat

    What a mess. This thing will never be solved.

    Although I thought both programs had tidbits of information (of things that I previously was not aware of), most of the programs were simply grandstanding (in my opinion). September IS sweeps month, I think?

    Personally, I am going to put this topic to rest. I never did like merry-go-rounds.

    Maybe I’ll pick it up again in 20 years….if I’m still here, and not smearing feces. :)

  23. Meri

    This is a tragic case and a little girl died. There is a lot of speculation and few provable facts. A lot of evidence was destroyed and I doubt that we will ever know the full truth. I believe that Burke was involved and that there was a cover up on many levels by many people. I am also disappointed that some of the people who post here are insulting the opinions of others and behaving in a manner that is both childish and nasty. Everyone is free to believe what they want too and TT has the right to blog whatever she wants too. To come here and defend her by insulting others who may not agree with her is ridiculous and I am sorry to see this happen on a site where someone devotes many hours to researching and trying to seek the truth. Agreeing with everything that TT writes doesn’t make anything more true and does nothing to enlighten us. Also, putting down those who disagree and calling them names and accusing them of lying about their background is not productive and is very petty. Some of you would have fit in perfectly back in Boulder during the original investigation since you also seem to discard what you don’t want to hear (read).It’s a horrible case that will probably never be solved. Since we can’t solve the case the least we can do is treat the varying opinions with respect. I saw little of that reading the remarks here. R.I.P. Jon Benet.

  24. Bugg

    I have to agree about the insults, not only is it incredibly rude it distracts from the discussion.

  25. Sam

    I was about to comment on how much fun it is to read every hallowed word the world’s utmost child expert, Amy Babineaux, has to say but since insults are turning people off, I won’t.

    I feel dirty. No more JonBenet for me, but thanks for the very informative recaps on Burke. I’d forgotten a lot and hope to do so again soon.

    • Shay

      Sam, join us on other posts! I don’t watch housewives anymore, but the recaps are so good you don’t have to. The conversations are much more fun and light and people don’t tend to harass other people:)

  26. Some issues that you just have to really think about. I did not want to believe a parent could do that to their own child. But I think this is the ultimate tragedy. I really believe Burke hit his sister with the flashlight, and the parents – in desperation – tried to cover it up.

    1) An intruder could not have come through the basement window without disturbing the foliage/cobwebs. The foliage had not been disturbed.

    2. JonBenet had pineapple in her stomach after her death. The Ramseys said she didn’t eat after they got home. Where did it come from?

    3. The note writer practiced before writing the final note. Multiple experts confirmed that the lettering and phrasing matched notes Patsy had previously written. Only her fingerprints were on the pad and pen.

    4. When Detective Arndt told John to search the house, he immediately when to the room where the body was.

    5. There was tea and a bowl of pineapple on the kitchen table. The bowl had Patsy’s and Burke’s fingerprints.

    6. On the 911 call, forensic experts heard Patsy, John and Burke after Patsy thought she had hung up the call.

    • tamaratattles

      I do not recall Burke’s prints being on the bowl. Just Patsy’s

      • Bugg

        I’ve heard many times that only Patsy and Burke’s prints were on the bowl, spoon, and glass but I cannot find any transcript that documents this. It was eluded to Patsy during an interview but thats all I can find. The unusually large serving of pineapple, large spoon, and tea bag in a tall glass seems as if done by a child imo, but for neither child’s prints being on those items is odd.

      • tamaratattles

        Bugg, I recently searched for a police source on the fingerprints again as well. My recollection was that there was a single print on the bowl (or maybe they just took the one print to test? who knows) that was Patsy’s and that Burke’s prints were on the glass.

        I can’t find the original source, and when I looked there were all sorts of varied comments about the prints there. I’ve never seen in any of the Burke interview where he said JBR’s favorite snack was pineapple in mile either.

        Twenty years of speculation and Internet discussion later, there are a lot of books out there stating “facts” that are really hard to substantiate. However, in every version of events Patsy’s prints are on the bowl.

    • bobbie

      Paul- you point out some of the more concerning items in this case. I have studied this case in criminal justice classes over the past 20 years and occasionally a group of investigators comes along and breaths new life into the evidence inan old case. I for one appreciate their efforts. #1 yes no one came through the window. The cobwebs and foliage would have been torn out and how would the intruder have locked that door on the other side. Mr. White said when he went with John that the door was latched at the top and John unlocked it and as soon as he stepped in the dark room John said he found her and a 1/2 second later he turned on the light. He could not see anything for certain with the light off but maybe John had a better view inside. That was his statement to Police. The touch DNA could have been on the floor of the basement or on the rug her Dad laid her on in the living room. The evening before there were 30 kids making gingerbread houses and police and friends walking on it the next day. There were probably hundreds of skin cells on that rug. That last statement about the DNA was not part of Mr. Whites statement but rather my own thoughts as well as past classmates. #2 yes the autopsy showed at least one piece of pineapple in her system undigested. The best theory supported by evidence is she was put to bed (her Mom said so) then Patsy made a bowl of fruit for Burke and went up to bed. Jonbenet came bouncing down the stairs and grabbed a piece from his bowl. He grabbed the flashlight off the table and chased her downstairs and hit her with it. Accidentally killing her. He was not sure he killed her and picked up a piece of his train track and poked her with it hard enough to leave 2 round marks on her face. Again as in many times in the past he hit her in the face. He hated her because people were always telling them how beautiful she was and “do your new dance for us sweetie”. He told his friends it annoyed him. I think when you look at what he did to her box of chocolates after they got home you can see he was already coming undone.He had no other time to smear feces on her box except after they got home which was not long before the tragedy. He was already angry and knew he was in for another day flying to John’s kids house and hearing more of the little beauty queen accolades. Snatching his pineapple was the last straw. #3 yes someone threw away 3 other practice sheets before writing the final ransom note. Patsy’s fingerprints were all over it and in places and directions they should not have been if as she said all she did was look at it and read it and picked it up to give to John. Yet John’s prints were not on it.Patsy wrote it and the only reason she would was to protect someone and the only person she would have protected was Burke. He was never right in the head and she knew it.#4was answered with #1. #5 Patsy made the bowl of fruit for BUrke and Burke said she did but Patsy claims she did not and why was the fruit which was his favorite snack not eaten because after it happened he ran upstairs to his bed.#6 is really the puzzle because I never get a clear hearing of what the investigators said they heard but all I can say is I cannot discount it because they are expert investigators and they all agreed to what was being heard and that probably was what they were saying if you have an ounce of belief in the cover up which I do 100%. As for the date on her tombstone I believe that they knew Burke had killed her on the 25th not after midnight on the 26th because that is when they were involved in the cover up. Many have thought that since the grave was first photographed. I do not believe this one will be solved beyond what it is now and most people do not believe it was Burke so what can you say. Maybe someday after his Dad is gone he will admit he did not mean to kill her but no matter how you feel about what the 9 yr old boy did who was too young to be culpable he did not choose to spend his life covering it up and lying about it his parents wrongly chose that for him. Patsy was a drama queen and loved acting and she got her big show at his expense.

      • tamaratattles

        Probably should have skipped one of those criminal justices classes and taken ENG101. No one is going to read a wall of words with no paragraphs. Not even me, and I was agreeing with what you were until the lack of white space needed for proper eye rest became an issue.

      • Amy Babineaux

        That was an engaging, concise, and well worded summary. I agree with your inferences, and I like how you handled the case in a non-defensive manner. Well done!

      • Cat

        You’ve taken criminal justice classes–for 20 years?

        I used to be a “professional student”, too. I loved school. I only went to community college for about 10 years, though. But the thing is, it does not make you an expert. It makes you more of a “hobbyist”.

  27. Bugg

    Thats what makes this case so frustrating! Its like the game kids play in class where one kid is told something then tells the other and so on -by the time the last kid in the class is told the story is totally different. At this point its almost impossible to sort the facts from years of conjecture.

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