The Case of JonBenet Ramsey on CBS Reveals Nothing

cbs-jon-benet

Are we up for one more Jon Benet investigative show?

The CBS miniseries was supposed to be six hours long and has been cut down to four hours, two hours Sunday night and two hours Monday night. The series was also supposed to be called Case Closed  which makes it seem like they were going to accuse someone of murder on national TV.  Eventually, it seems someone explained that you can’t do that. The first two hours are recapped here, Monday nights episode will be discussed in comments.

All of the people on the investigative team are fairly qualified. Except Werner Spitz  who in my opinion is not a credible source of any findings, he’s a media ME for hire and generally says what whoever is paying him wants to hear. Like he did in the Phil Spector case and others. Allegedly. In my opinion.

The Phone Call

Right away the team has a problem with the 911 call.  Patsy begins by saying, “We have a kidnapping here” who is we? She also never mentions her name or the name of the missing child until asked.  They are all concerned that Patsy hung up rather than staying on the line until the police got there. This crew is going to use the very latest technology to figure out what they heard on the tape going on in the house after she hung up. They act like they have found some new intel when actually this was all released by the year 2000 as follows.

Patsy apparently had trouble hanging up the telephone, and before it rested on the cradle she was heard to moan, “Help me, Jesus, Help me, Jesus.” Her husband was heard to bark, “We’re not talking to you.” And in the background was a young-sounding voice: “What did you find?” It was Jon Benet’s brother, Burke.

The fact that  they all act as if they are just finding this out and have never read this information that has been all over the Internet for years convinces me that this is a farce. They bring in the 911 operator and this proves only that she is an idiot.

ransom-note


The Ransom Note

The ransom note contains movie quotes from Dirty Harry and Speed.  “Don’t try to grow a brain, John.” Is a quote supposedly from the movie Speed. I can see Patsy using that phrase toward her husband frequently after seeing the movie. They time themselves on how long it takes to write the ransom note. It took them 21 minutes to copy it. It would take longer to compose it while writing.

I’m bored. Still nothing new. We already know, a kidnapper stand in the kitchen writing several drafts of a ransom note in the house,  a kidnapper doesn’t molest or kill the victim in the house,  a kidnapper takes the victim with them when they kidnap someone,  a kidnapper calls to set up a ransom,  the ransom not is full of nonsense.  It’s very obvious that the ransom note is a cover up. Either someone in the house was staging the scene, or an intruder staged the scene before leaving.  The second option makes no sense. The intruder would have no reason to make it look like a kidnapping if he is leaving a body.

To Read Our Previous Discussions On The JonBenet Ramsey Case Click Here.

The Police Arrive

This is news to me. John Ramsey apparently disappeared for an hour and a half while the police were there.  I thought they were all sort of held in the sun room at some point. This guy speaking now says the ransom not made them focus on the family and they wanted to keep visual contact with everyone and it was a this point they found out John went somewhere.  Newsflash, he was in his den. They make it seem like he went out somewhere. And when he came back, he was agitated.  However, the responding officers all noticed that John and Patsy did not stay in the same room, she was with her friends in the sun room sobbing and he was his den. No police detectives had arrived yet. Just the responding officers. The detective speaking  says that his idea was to have John search the house from top to bottom looking for signs of disturbance simply to keep him busy and in the house. This guy says as soon as John found out the house was going to be searched top to bottom he grabbed his friend Flint White and they went immediately to the basement. When he brought the body upstairs he laid her on the carpet and the body was immediately contaminated with anything on the carpet from all the people who walked through the house.

The Reenactment 

James Kolar, former chief investigator for the District Attorney in Boulder, Colorado walks us through a mockup of some of the rooms. Was all that construction really necessary?

The ransom note was found on the third stair from the bottom of the spiral staircase that comes from the Ramsey’s third floor master bedroom into the kitchen.  That’s an odd place to leave a ransom note. Why not the kitchen counter?

In the room where the body was found, the window was open and there was a suitcase underneath the window. Kolar wonders if the perp was planning to put the body in the suitcase to remove it from the house and got interrupted. By the time Kolar arrived, the body had been removed. In some statements, a witness said that John called out that Jon Benet was there before he turned on the light. Kolar says that the police were told to treat the Ramseys as the victims and not as suspects, presumably due to their standing in the community.  Supposedly, John Ramsey made a call to the airport to ready his plane for takeoff. I am not sure if I heard this before. That is weird. The police didn’t interview the Ramseys for several days because they were too distraught.

The investigators want to talk to Fleet and Priscilla White who were the Ramsey’s best friends and two of the people that they called to come over as soon as the note was found. They were called two minutes after the 911 call. Fleet White criticized the Boulder police for not interviewing the Ramseys immediately. They meet with Fleet but he will  not allow cameras. They come back with no information at all. They say he has a lot information but he doesn’t want to share it on camera. So why didn’t they just sit down and listen to the information?

Then they ridiculously knock on doors of the neighbors, and the church bothering people for information. No one wants to talk to them.  They manage to talk to their gardener and one of Patsy friends who was on a softball team with her. The name of the team was Moms Gone Bad.  Seriously. Her big contribution was to let us know that the Ramsey’s circle of friends banded together to be sure no one spoke to the media. This lady did and was shut out of the group.
ramseys-on-tv-with-reward

The Autopsy

This is where Werner Spitz comes in and I check out. This man is not credible. If you google “Werner Spitz lied” you will see pages of links to testimony he has given under oath that were highly questionable and not supported by any other medical examiner.  Here is just one example.

They do point out things like an intruder did not need to stop and make an intricate garrote to kill a six-year-old.

Ah, Dr. Lee is calling out Spitz. I love it,  Spitz tried to say the flashlight was the instrument of death and it may be; however Dr. Lee points out there was no DNA found on the flashlight. Dr. Lee agrees that the cause of death was brain trauma due to a blunt object but not whatever hocus pocus Spitz went into that I tuned out while searching for pics for this post.  Dr. Lee seems sort of embarrassed to be there and says, “We don’t have the complete picture.”

I skipped through all the little experiments with Spitz. I’m sure they are as dumb as the rest of them.

The CNN Interview

At the time of this interview that has not yet done individual interviews with the Bolder Police. It’s weird. They ask if she is fully convinced that her daughter has been kidnapped.  I assume they mean at the time they call police. Both Patsy and John shake their head no while John says, “yes.”  John also tacks on to his answer, “we are a loving and gentle family.” Gentle? Who says that?  He always wants to know why this happened. He doesn’t say ‘who’ he says ‘why.’  Also weird. It’s as if they know who did it, but not why.

Both John and Patsy seem truthful to me and the investigators when they say they did not kill Jon Benet. But when they talk about the killer on the loose, they appear to be deceptive.

I will not be recapping this series any farther. I find the entire thing rather ridiculous and void of anything new. However, we can certainly talk about it tonight in comments here as the second half is aired tonight at 9 pm on CBS.

The show ends with a disclaimer that basically says no one knows who killed Jon Benet and that all family members have denied any involvement, and they are just guessing and we should draw our own conclusions.

Okay, let’s get to arguing.

To Read Our Previous Discussions On The JonBenet Ramsey Case Click Here.

174 Comments

Filed under CBS, Entertainment News, News

174 responses to “The Case of JonBenet Ramsey on CBS Reveals Nothing

  1. tamaratattles

    Am I the only one who thinks of Farrah from Teen Mom every time I hear Patsy whisper cry about the killer out there on that one interview? Sounds just like Farrah to me…

  2. This was a bungled investigation from the beginning. To start with, not making sure the parents and Burke were all under observation, and letting the dad wander the house – an absolute no-no. The crime scene was contaminated from the minute he “discovered” and moved the body. Everything in this case points to someone in the home murdering JonBenet. The ransom note is highly suspicious and makes no sense at all, given Jon Benet was dead. I don’t care what foreign DNA was found on her clothes – that could have been there for any length of time. Nothing else makes sense. These shows are obscene and an absolute waste of time. Patsy is dead, no one else is telling the truth and the perpetrator(s) will never be brought to justice.

  3. Cat

    I liked the show, for the most part. But then I like all shows that deal with forensics.

    I did think the reconstruction of the house was ridiculous. Who paid for that? Why couldn’t they just use the actual crime scene photos?

    I also thought the autopsy photos were unnecessary to this show. But, it could have been worse, I guess. Personally, I don’t think they should show autopsy photos on TV. Especially with a child victim.

    I did find the deconstruction of the letter interesting. But then, the full contents were new to me.

    It sounds to me like they will blame Burke. Burke, in the basement, with the flashlight. That was obviously why they dId the demonstration with the 10 year old kid swinging the flashlight. It made me cringe.

    And I believe a blow like that would have at least left hair and skin cells. Microscopic, maybe, but trace evidence should have been considered.

    It’s spooky how botched the investigation was.

    I will be watching tonight, too. If I don’t forget. I do think this was better than the Dr. Phil interview.

    • Bugg

      “Burke in the basement with the flashlight”, this is starting sound like the game Clue.

      I agree the reenactments with the skulls with blonde wigs being hit with a flashlight by the kid was beyond poor taste. I hated this series. It had a very unprofessional and gimmicky feel.

      • Cat

        I agree. Most of it was stupid. Grandstanding. But they did make a couple of good points. They could have done that in much less than 4 hours, though.

      • Laurie

        I agree I thought show was very stupid. I don’t think john patsy or Burke had anything to do with her death. I think Fleet White had something to do with her death.

      • Ginny

        I agree with you 100%. The suspenseful music really got on my nerves. How they dismissed every piece of evidence that could have pointed at an intruder was ridiculous. It’s okay to say they believe it may have been Burke because of all the different things but to pretend that intruder evidence(DNA especially) was just not important at all made me really dislike it. You know that in all of these investigators careers they all rely/relied on DNA when it suits their purposes. The 10 year old swinging that flashlight at a blonde wig was disgusting.

      • tamaratattles

        THERE IS NO DNA IN THIS CASE. THE FORENSIC GUY who may have been hired by TEAM RAMSEY. Has been completely discredited and is no longer to permitted to testify in Colorado court because he admitted HE HAD NO CREDITIALS in the area of DNA.

        See how that works?

      • SLM

        In my own, opinion, what this case hinges on is that ransom note. As I keep writing, no matter how puzzling all this mountain of evidence (or red herrings) is, this isn’t a crime where there are a million possibilities – the solution has only one of two avenues. Either one or more of the Ramseys perpetrated the crime and then they all colluded to cover it up, or there really was an intruder and every avenue of the investigation was so botched that solid evidence for this was lost. ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE NOT LOST OR TAINTED is that ransom note. It exists, everyone in the family, neighbors, police and FBI saw it. It was in their home. It has been scanned and photocopied and pics of the note exist on the Internet. None of us can argue it because it simply IS. If it can be concretely proven that either John, Patsy or even Burke authored that note, then the Ramseys are likely guilty. If it can be concretely proven that the only 3 people we absolutely KNOW were in that house with JonBenet that night DID NOT write the note, then no matter how impossible, it must be this phantom intruder. Has there been recent reanalysis of the note? Does no one have access to samples of any of the Ramseys’ everyday writings (letters, cards, business notes, etc)?

      • tamaratattles

        SLM here is a good starting point for info on the RN. This information is not very much more current than around 2004.. there was info after that as well…

        http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682518/The%20Ransom%20Note

    • Sherry Voigt

      Since all of you watch a lot of forensic shows, I’m shocked by your comments. Doesn’t it strike you odd…that the flashlight that fit the the skull break was an exact match…that it didn’t have ANY fingerprints on it…where was John Ramsey during the 90-minutes he disappeared…why was Burke’s voice on the 911 call when they claimed he never came out of his room…that Burke’s behavior with the child care worker was not only odd, he acted out a hammer to the head, AND that he described what happened after he stated “I know what happened”…how did John Ramsey know his daughter was in that room BEFORE he turned the light on? And, not only did John serve in the Navy, Patsy had a degree in journalism! Lastly, do you not think an expert in child kidnapping, murder and sexual assault would recognize a staged crime scene? They also explored all of the theories. Oh, and CBS financed the production.

  4. cheychey

    It just made me even more convinced that it was Burke. Maybe by accident maybe out jealousy because of her relationship with Patsy and pageants and feeling excluded but still Burke non the less. With a huge cover up by Patsy.

    • Cat

      I agree!

      I don’t think he meant to kill her. A big brother pounding on a little sister is quite common, isn’t it? But I think he hit her harder than he intended. And once the parents discovered she was dead, they covered up the truth to protect Burke and the family name.

      With the staged Christmas video, it seems that appearances are very important to this family.

    • Meri

      I believe that Burke is the most likely suspect. I don’t think that he intended to kill his sister but that a child who felt left out and was prone to fits of rage may have hit her sometime during the night when she annoyed him for some reason. I also believe that the parents covered up and staged the rest. I do think that a lot was uncovered by the investigators that did not come out when the killing happened 20 years ago. This was a bungled case where the crime scene was destroyed and contaminated and where politics and money played a role in what was done and not done. Burke’s interviews both at the time of the killing and recently with Phil McGraw were telling and he is a strange boy/man at the very least. He, is the only logical suspect in my opinion and since he was only 9 when JonBenet was killed and there is no conclusive proof that he killed her there will never be justice for this little girl. I don’t think that “nothing” came out of this program and that a lot of what I thought that I knew (I read everything concerning the case) was wrong and incomplete. There was some clarification and I thought that the program was valuable. Not everyone is speaking and there is still a lot to tell…but I don’t think it ever will be.

    • Pat Perkins

      I do not agree ,if Burke had done this he would not have been prosecuted due to his age ,assuming it was done in a childish bit of rage ,or even on purpose ,why would parents ,do all this,including assembling a garotte and strangling their daughter , to protect a child who has been ravaged by the press and public opinion even more,than he would had he opened up ,and confessed ,he seemed straight forward in interviews ,also he was never considered a suspect ..He would not get to forget that he had done it ,he would have still had to carry the memory of having done this,they could not erase his memory or know that he would not at some point confess .So how would they have been protecting him ???

      • Ginny

        The garrote will always bother me. Staging a scene to look like something else, I get. Putting a garrote around your dying/dead 6 year old, just makes me think why? Why not just put a rope around her neck? The garrote feels like a little too much to me.

      • tamaratattles

        I agree completely Ginny. But SOMEBODY did that. And the weight of the evidence in my opinion support that the RDI theory.

      • Keith Shirey

        She was dead from the head blow. The garrot is the fathers staging.No strangulation.The parents concern for Burke and themselves was only that the boy would need to be repeatedly mentally evaluated. Also the entrance of media.I believe if the mother was alone in the house with the children, she would have called 911 immeadiatly. Dr. Phil knows Burke has an illness and is being barred from saying so. A miilionaires money goes a long ways. Sorry for those working in law enforcement.

      • tamaratattles

        You need to read the autopsy report. The cause of death was strangulation. There was a good deal of neck trauma both exterior and interior.

      • Keith Shirey

        Stangulation was a manipulation. Autopsy report is tainted and not submissible under a corrupt DA. Get it right,

      • Keith Shirey

        The second they moved her body, invited neighbors into the house, hired lawyers and controlled the police, all within One Day!, all produced physical evidence is tainted. No DNA, no altered testimoney, no letters, no autopsies can change the fact that the crime scene had been altered, infected, manipulated. The father immeadiatly obstructed justice and law enforcement.

      • Betsy

        One thing that bothers me: How do you explain the half moon fingernail marks on her neck ? It appears that a conscience Jonbenet was trying to pull at the rope around her neck. Do we really think one of the Ramseys really strangled her to put her out of her misery? I need this explained to me.

      • fanlan60s

        The coroners report form the autopsy can probably be inadmissible being that he also is under the control of the DA office and John Ramsey.He has contolled nearly everything except the media. He has bought time for his splintered family and givin his son every opportunnity to have a normal life.This is the true motive.

  5. PopcornAndVodka

    I was disappointed in the show. Jim Clemente and Laura Richards are really interesting and knowledgable investigators, but there is not really much new to talk about here and there was a lot of stretching the few moments of “new” into two entire shows. I think starting out the show with trying to decipher the phone call was a huge mistake. It went on too long and nothing was settled. And why WOULD the 911 operator be called to testify? The call is recorded, and the operator’s *opinion* has no place in a trial – they all know that.

    I could not get past Spitz’s hair.

    I did think the second half of the first episode was better than the first, and I hope the next episode gives us SOMETHING interesting to talk about. Otherwise, sorry for steering you wrong, TT!

  6. Okay, I haven’t watched this one yet & am waiting for part 3 of Dr Phil today. I watched all other 3 Dr Phil epidodes, the one on A&E & the one on Discovery ID channel. I read a lot of the books, but was long ago so I don’t remember anything from books I read. I also read the 4 part thing with the psychic online. It’s all running together in my brain! (Not to mention was glued to the tube when it happened 20 yrs ago)

    I am getting bored with same info repeated over & over. Evidently Lifetime has a movie coming out about it soon, too.

    The only new info I learned was I think on the Discovery ID one…. They interviewed John M Karr, the freak that falsely confessed yrs ago. I was shocked at his appearance now & the fact that he voluntarily got castrated. I also forgot that her name was a combo of John Bennett Ramsey.

    I will continue to watch it all in hopes there is something new. The cast of characters in this case are admittedly intriguing, as well as all the theories.

    I honestly don’t think this case will ever be solved, at least in my lifetime. Whatever theory is correct, it is still a tragic case & brutal ending of a beautiful child. May JonBenet RIP. So very, very sad.

    • Pat Perkins

      I was disgusted by CBS version of the events ,the forensic expert ,using a pair of NEW panties to test for touch DNA was absurd ,of course new panties would have touch DNA from manufacturing .Why would they think that the panties worn by Jon Benet were new ?probably washed many times especially if she was a bed wetter . I am sure that transfer DNA from someone in the manufacturing process or handling these would have been obliterated by washing a long time ago .They made light of a tiny wood fragment found on a slide of vaginal secretion as transferred there innocently ,sure most of us women have splinters there LOL ,they made no mention of footprint found on the suitcase ,and why would they have had to come in the window ? or go out the window ,Surely if the Ramsey’s wanted to make this look like a kidnapping ,sexual assault they would have just dumped the body along a road .Its more like a sexual predator wanted it to look like the Ramsey’s did this. I am disgusted by their theory he became upset when Jon Benet took a hunk of pineapple chased her and hit her .No one has picked up to my knowledge that the blow from the light would have had to come when the child was sitting if done by Burke and she was sitting still ,the flashlight blow was straight on not at a glance and unless the killer was straddling the child she was not laying down when struck the angle is to awkward .It looked to me as if he killer approached her from the right rear side striking her close up and straight on .not side ways or glancing or to the top of her head ,it looks as if someone did not want to be seen by her when she was struck .I believe he was in the house the entire time ,found the stationary wrote the note and ,hid until they were asleep ,I believe he could have snooped and found the money amount and the name John Ramsey ,or more likely he was acquainted with the family .Why would you fake the murder of your child and leave the body in the basement ?? Why not just manually strangle the child why the garotte .Who would think of that in staging the murder of your daughter ?

  7. Amy

    There was no blood or DNA found in the flashlight. There were also no fingerprints found on the exterior or on the batteries. I believe that the Ramseys claimed it wasn’t theirs. I believe they said it was “just like theirs but dirty”. And then didn’t Dr Phil say John used a flashlight to put Burke to bed? There’s a whole lot going on with that flashlight…

  8. SLM

    To me, when you look at the actual ransom note, the handwriting looks more like a female than a male. Just my opinion. Were they saying the BLOW killed her, not the later strangulation? Because in everything I’ve read, it was a bad blow to the head and she was likely dying of it, but that the strangulation was the actual cause of death. I was doing about 5 other things while this was on and lost track of parts.

    • alissa

      I am bothered that they did not focus in the strangulation more in this show. Those marks in her neck resemble ones of a fighting victim. Which would mean she was still conscious

      • Jarrod

        That was the only part of the CBS investigation that really bothered me! I can’t understand for life of me why they did not even mention the marks on her neck, an important piece of evidence!

      • i watched a show on A&E that focused on the marks on her neck and they thought it was when JonBenet was being strangled she was clutching at the garrote. i was hoping The Case Of: would have talked about that. i wondered why they didn’t.

      • tamaratattles

        Because the autopsy is the only first account source of the injuries and marks on JonBenet and gave no indication that there were any nail marks or other indications that she struggled while being strangled.

        The erroneous information originated from the Ramsey Friendly judge who used Lin Woods assertion in a defamation case as part of her judgement for the Ramseys despite never reading any first hand sources herself since the defense did not have access to the criminal report or the autopsy to refute the evidence.

        If that was too long, the short answer is because there were no defensive marks on her neck.

        Further, this is why you should not post about mysterious things that “they said” as it distracts from actual facts.

      • Jarrod

        Then how do u explain the “half moon” marks u can clearly see on her neck?

    • Sherry Voigt

      The autopsy report stated that the strangulation was done “perimortem”, which means near death. They explained how the blow took her to brain death, with the garrote finishing her off.

  9. ZenJen55

    I didn’t follow this case closely. I wasn’t aware of the “Train”room downstairs near where she was found. I’d bet Burke received train stuff from Santa. Knowing they was leaving early in the morning for Michigan, he wouldn’t be playing with them until they returned. I think he went to play with them. The gardener stated he never saw Burke playing outside with her. I’d say he only played with her on his terms and manipulated her. I’m guessing he gave her the pineapple to butter her up. Also the friend noted Patsy lied to her about bleaching her hair so Patsy wasn’t a truthful person. I’m leaning towards Burke accidentally struck her causing her death and the Ramsey’s went into control mode. So I’m concluding they knew who but not why. I’m sure my observations has been repeated ad nauseum here.

  10. Anna

    I still believe Burke did it, accidentally , & possibly both parents, (but definitely mom), did their best to cover it up.

  11. SLM

    Also, a friend I was talking to about this pointed out to me that it was noticed by many various online discussions (I’m hoping in this case I’m not breaking commenting rules) that a good portion of the notes language is also similiar to the kidnappers’ ransom demands in the 1986 comedy RUTHLESS PEOPLE. What I want to know is, what the hell would organized kidnappers be doing cobbling together cheesy movie ransom stereotypes IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMEONE ELSE’S HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT instead of having a prepared note to drop that read, “We have your child. Do not contact authorities. Give us XX amount of dollars for her safe return. More instructions to follow.” I think that ransom note makes it almost impossible for the intruder theory to be possible.

    • Let alone, discovered on another website, that there were several “Patsy” words and phrases she had used ever since her journalistic days at West Virginia U. The ransom note is “the elephant in the room” for the Ramsey family. Totally rules out an intruder.”Hence,” guilty as indicted by the Grand Jury, who saw through all the lies. DA Alex succumbed to “political pressure”(his own words), and lied about not having ENOUGH evidence to prosecute. New DNA technology answered and nullified the lady DA’s exoneration of the family. Steve Thomas,( head detective) Patsy’s worst nightmare, saw the truth in bold letters, and was right all along! The police were NOT as bad as advertised after all.

  12. GildedLily

    I thought the discussion about the 911 call was interesting. Patsy saying “we have a kidnapping here” was so odd. It was such a cold, distancing way of saying what happened. I think most people would say “my daughter is missing” or “my daughter has been kidnapped.” She also referred to herself as “the mother.” I wish they asked people who knew her whether she spoke in this cold kind of way normally.

    • When you are upset and traumatized you don’t always say the right thing at a given time. “We” meant Patsy and husband. She acted as any distraught mother would act on that phone call. Nit picking and petty observation IMO and obviously been lucky enough in life not to experience a any kind of trauma like that.

  13. I saw the A&E special on this. Haven’t seen the CBS special yet. Funny how the DNA under her fingernails was discounted and not given to the DA Office for SEVEN months, the footprint on the luggage with “Tec” on it, and how a six year old not far from the Ramsey’s house who screamed and a man ran out of the house was discounted by the police.

    Also, British forensics stated that it wasn’t proven she was hit over the head first and noted JonBenet had self inflicted scratches on her neck trying to get the rope off. IMO, that’s then she was hit on the head.

    The intruder planned to leave the house with her but miscalculated on how late Burke stayed up to play with his Xmas toys and how early Patsy got up that morning for their trip figuring no one would search the basement since ransom note was already left.

    How this poor family has suffered to an inept police dept.and thirsty “to make a buck” media. Some creep was in that house that night or many times before. Why an intruder is discounted is astounding to me and years lost on finding the real killer.

    • Amy

      i agree I don’t get how this could have aired and totally left out all the other evidence. This poor family was exonerated by Dna evidence what can’t people understand. Leave them alone poor patsy died before the cloud of suspicion was broken up

      • The DNA evidence was totally found to be a “clunker” when CBS demonstrated using much more advanced technology than was available back then. It’s the ransom note that screams “Patsy” all over it.

      • Amy

        Respectfully, you can’t be exonerated by DNA evidence. For example, if your DNA is there, you were there. If my DNA was there, I was there (and maybe you were too).

      • Observer2

        cmaglaughlin, the only thing Part 2 of this show proves is how the lead couple (guy and gal) were hellbent on asserting proof to fit their preconceived notions.

        They left out way too much. Including the DNA that was analyzed in 2008 using much better testing methods than in ’97.

      • tamaratattles

        If you read the most current post, I painstaking explain how and why this is not a DNA case and there is no DNA that can be attributed to the murder.

        This is not a DNA case.

      • Jarrod

        Not sure which show u watched, much of part 2 was dedicated to the DNA evidence that led the DA to prematurely exonerate the Ramsey’s!!

    • Ac18

      I agree with you Spunky. I thought that the killer was someone who did the holiday walk through that Patsy put on 2 days before She died. The killer would have seen where J’s bedroom was for the abduction and could have taken the sheets of paper from the kitchen for the ransom note during the walk through.

  14. ninjapanda1

    John was in his den for a reason. He was on the phone with his banker who had to go in and arrange for the ransom money. He was on the phone off and on accomplishing that with the manager. There is another documentary that blows this one to bits I think it was on Reelz. She had fingernail marks all over her neck so she wasn’t struck unconscious before the garroting. I am leary of Burke for sure, but I don’t think a 9 year old kid could’ve done that and not shed a ton of DNA in the process. She had DNA of an unknown person on her leggings and her underwear. Both the same DNA. They think now with advanced techniques they can run familial tests and see if anyone in the DNA database matches along family lines. This is the way it will be solved. Hopefully.

    • Friday'smom

      DNA testing has already ruled out the family.

      • Piper

        The DNA was very little and only matched four of the markers . Basically , that’s another part of the case that was messed up . Had all the different DNA been taken into account it would have meant no less than 7 men helped do this crime .

      • ninjapanda1

        Yes, but that’s not what I’m saying. They may not have this person’s DNA on file but someone in their family may have been in prison and would have a DNA profile that matches family lines like maternal. If there is a familial match through the maternal line then a member of their family on the mothers side really narrows down a suspect list.

      • Family should never have been ruled out. CBS documentary found DNA on girls’ underpants from packages NEVER opened prior to testing. CBS got it right. Did it well. Burke did it. Ransom note reeked with Patsy’s way of words and handwriting. No outside intruder. Case closed. No wonder Burke smiles so much!

    • tamaratattles

      Actually, John was calling to get a plane ready to take off according to one of these stupid shows.

    • They explained WHY there was no blood or DNA on the flashlight, if you were listening and watching. They also demontrated how a 9 year-old could very easily crack open a 6 year-old’s skull.

  15. Khirssy

    The documentary was good to me. I learn something’s I didn’t know but than again I haven’t been following this story much. I always thought the mother did it but watching this special it look like it was the brother . He probably was jealous of his sister. The parents probably looked it at like we already lost one child we don’t want the other one to spend the rest of his life in jail so they protected him .

  16. beth

    The length of the ransom note is enough to make me suspicious – are ransom notes ever longer than say, half a page?

  17. Diane

    I have always thought this was a terrible accident by someone in the family. I find Burke to be a very odd person. JMHO. Not sure which show I saw this week but the interview with him at the time was very strange. He just doesn’t react normally. I have worked in mental health for years and have been around many children who have committed very heinous acts. Some as young as 4. He just strikes me as someone they should push. His affect is wrong. It just is not normal.

    So many years and I do not know why they are bringing this all up as I do not think this will ever be solved. Mainly because the scene was grossly contaminated.

    RIP JonBenet

  18. Piper

    Yes the sad part is I don’t think there will be justice for Jon Benet. What did strike me is that neither John nor Patsy seemed afraid that someone was in the house . I cannot imagine leaving my young son upstairs without any concerns that someone was still in the house , I’d probably also have waited outside til the police conducted a full search of my house w guns drawn . They did not seem too concerned that there may have been a kidnapper still in the house .

    • KB

      Amy, this is the one thing that has always bugged me. Well at least since I had kids. There is no way I’d leave my other children alone in their rooms especially if it was still dark outside. and the last thing on my mind would be, let me call all my friends and pastor to come over right quick. What the heck? Burke did it!

      • Bigred

        That is what has really bothered me about this since watching most of these shows about this case. What kid would not be afraid of a stranger in their room (police) with a flashlight? Burke’s interview on Dr. Phil was just weird! Why did he do the interview? I can’t believe his father or an attorney allowed him to go on this show. His strangeness was covered up by Dr. Phil as Burke is not being a social person due to his sisters death, the suspicions of his involvement, and having to hide from reporters, moving frequently. I just don’t agree.
        He was weird from the beginning and smiling at the funeral.
        I understand he has a girlfriend? Wow!

      • Bigred, I was wondering the same thing, why did Burke go on Dr. Phil? But then it made sense after watching last nights show. He knew the CBS show was coming out and going to implicate him, so like the Ramsey’s have always done, he went to the media. I don’t think he did himself any favors, but I assume he thought that he could get ahead of the story and tell the world he didn’t do it, trying to appear like a normal 29 year old.

      • Lydia

        I agree with you 100%. His whole demeanor while being interviewed was so obvious he felt uncomfortable because he knew they were on to something. They tested all the theories, including the intruder one and it did not work. The way the Ramsey’s handled the situation and how they behaved in interviews and their lack of cooperation made it quite obvious that they knew what happened and just didn’t want the rest of the world or the authorities to know so they could protect Burke when he ultimately would not of gotten in any trouble. I’m excited to watch the other shows regarding this case and see other points of views along with Burke’s interview. But, at the end of the day I support the theory that it was an accident done by Burke and the parents decided to handle it the wrong way and couldn’t risk harming the way they were viewed in society. I do hope that they can come up with an answer to this horrific crime and bring that little girl some justice.

  19. Lolita

    They had a spiral staircase from the Master bedroom into the kitchen?

  20. pokerplayer

    What mother hangs up on 911 when she’s reporting her child missing?

  21. Lolita

    What are their ties to the ATL? I thought I remembered they moved back to Atlanta after a bit. Why did they live in Boulder, and was that their full time home? It has always bugged me a little. I know that sounds weird, but I am curious to their ties to Boulder and how politically involved was the father, his business?

    • Joanplus2dogs

      I don’t know the whole story but the Ramsey’s lived in Atl before moving to Boulder. Jonbenet was born in Atl. I assume they moved for work/business. They did move back to Atl. after the murder. Patsy & Jonbenet are buried here. Patsy father (& maybe other family members) also live in Atl so likely why they came back.

  22. belladonna

    In my opinion it was a rich family cover up for Burke. The police and the ransom note, really? That was so fake. Jon Bonet will never have justice, because the person responsible for her death won’t own up to it.

  23. Amy

    All family have been completely ruled out by DNA evidence did this show even mention that fact. They were publicly apologized to also. And that poor woman died before all that happened. Can u imagine living with the fact that people think she killed her own child. Heartbreaking. The Boulder police really screwed this up and out many lies out there. They had DNA evidence proof from the start. So sad that this baloney even was allowed to be aired. I didn’t watch it. Hopefully one day a match for that DNA will pop up on one if the databank a (although that would mean that person committed another crime and I don’t wish that on anyone) and the killer will be revealed.

    • Cat

      In Part 2, they concluded that the trace DNA came from manufacturing, and had nothing to do with her death. It does not prove guilt or innocence of anyone.

      • Bell

        They said it “could” have come from the manufacturing plant but did not go so far and say it had nothing to do with her death. They left out the fact that the DNA on the underwear matched the DNA found underneath her fingernails. Also, they conveniently left out that the DNA found in her underwear was 10-12 times the amount found from the manufacturer. This show left out any evidence that didn’t support the theory that Burke was the killer and the Ramsey’s covered it up.

      • BellaMichelle

        I completely agree with you! They also left out that the DNA found in the underwear also matched the DNA found on the waistband of her pajama pants. They left out a lot of stuff! Everything that didn’t help their conclusion they had from the very start! The FBI also had said there were no noises heard at the end of the 911 call! I heard noises, but couldn’t tell if they were voices and sure didn’t hear what they made it all out to say! And then the 911 operator says that she heard something completely different. It just bothers me that they ignored anything that didn’t fit their already decided theory and that they would say it’s possible as if that meant it was fact. I do not believe it was Burke. I always think at the end they say things about the parents living their son and not wanting to lose him to make it seem sad and so we believe them. I found it boring and leaving out to many facts. I watched all of the new shows and together you can get both sides of the story! Just watching this one won’t give you all the truthful facts! Their friend and photographer seems to make things up also. She said different things on different shows. Some may have just been left out, but she said Patsy said Burke got mad and hit his sister with golf club, However they have always said he accidentally did it because she was behind him. That friend does not seem honest to me! I do wish they could solve this case. Sorry for the long post!!!

      • indychick

        this really bothers me – are they trying to tell us that Patsy took fresh out of the package unwashed underwear and put them on her daughter? a daughter that has a history of sensitivities in that area? is there anyone that will put fresh out of the package underwear on their kid?

      • BellaMichelle

        I sure wouldn’t! I have a 5 year old daughter and I wash everything before she ever wears it and especially her panties!!!! That’s a crazy theory! Funny how they want to make up excuses for the DNA when it does not fit their theory! I seen another FBI profiler on a different show that said when the investigators first came out with the theory it was foreign DNA from China that she fell out of her chair because it was so ridiculous! That was years ago, so these people didn’t say anything that hasn’t already been thrown out there by someone already! A 9 year old didn’t do it! Burke seems to have social anxiety to me. His parents did shelter him after this and for a reason which could be the reason. They also pointed out every little thing Burke said and did in his interview, but at that age I don’t believe it means anything! They over analysed it imo.

      • SamT

        No way. I always wash undergarments first before wearing. Unless…maybe she wet the bed. And the only clean underwear she had were new ones.

      • Jujue

        Yes there are, but Patsy Ramsey certainly doesn’t strike me as one of them. I also thought about this point– the panties would for sure have been washed before wearing.

      • Coco

        ….and who puts stiff ,unwashed, new, straight from the package, underwear on anyone? Let alone a kid. The formaldehyde/sizing used on clothes to keep away molds and critters while stored in massive warehouses and shipping containers is disgusting.
        So the whole DNA on underwear coming from the manufacturing process is Nutz.
        Just curious, doesn’t everyone wash packaged girls/women’s underwear before letting your kids wear it?

      • tamaratattles

        noe.

      • MichelleBella

        Yes, I most definitely wash new underwear before my daughter wears them! I would never put underwear on her or myself for that matter straight from the store! I know they are not clean! That’s disgusting to me. What are the chances these just happened to be brand new never washed underwear. I doubt it. They left out so many other facts in this case, so this is just one thing that doesn’t make sense! Watching that little boy hit that skull with a blonde wig on it was so disturbing to me!

    • All your conclusions would have been nullified if you HAD watch the two night CBS documentary. Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.

  24. Cat

    Well, at least my question was answered. Even if Burke killed her, they cannot prosecute. He was too young.

    I do think he killed her, but I don’t think he intended to. I do, however, think it’s fairly obvious that the parents staged the scene to save him.

    • Cat

      Oh, and I thought the DNA “investigation” was stupid. I mean, to put the items that were not from the crime scene in evidence bags? “Let’s test this flashlight that was not part of the crime scene.” “Oh, it has my DNA? How interesting.”

      I did, though, think the test of the new, packaged panties was interesting. To think it’s that easy to find DNA from manufacturing…wow.

    • tamaratattles

      So um, how old is too young to be charged with murder? There are a lot of kids in jail for it right now that want to know.

      • Cat

        9, according to that lawyer. She said in Colorado, they have to be 10 or older to be charged.

      • Cat

        I know what you mean, though.

      • tamaratattles

        I’m not sure what lawyer you saw, I missed part two but I’m going to guess that what she said is they can’t be tried AS AN ADULT before age 10. I think in some states they lock young kids up in mental institutions for violent crimes like this. I am sure Lin Wood could have kept him out of juvenile and gotten him into the nicest mental facility available.

      • BellaMichelle

        The way it was said made me think that a child under 10 couldn’t be charged because they didn’t understand what they were really doing. I took that to most likely mean that the parents would be responsible for not watching the children close enough. I worked with a young woman who had 2 small babies. Her 2 year old tried to pick her newborn baby up from the couch and dropped him and broke his arm. The Mom was charged and both children taken from her. So even though the Jonbenet case would be a worse scenario, I was thinking that is how it’s dealt with.

    • Lydia

      I completely agree with you! I don’t think they realized after everything went down that he wouldn’t of even been able to get in trouble, and it was no doubt an accident and I know the parents struggled everyday knowing what happened but they did what they thought they had to do. It’s just sad

  25. Observer2

    “As of January 15, 1997 there was a strong suggestion – by the DNA results – that The Ramseys were NOT responsible for this murder”, Trip DeMuth, Former Boulder County Prosecutor.

    Based on the DNA evidence under Jon Benet’s fingernails, the Boulder police KNEW within 2 weeks of her death that The Ramseys did not commit this murder, yet they did not pass this information on to the DA for 7 months.

    WOW! That was less than a month after her death that they were ruled out – yet the Boulder Police and press put The Ramseys through living hell!

    Based on an interview segment of Trip DeMuth 16 minutes into Dr. Phil’s 3rd part of the 3-part series.

    • tamaratattles

      They were not ruled out. They have never been ruled out.

      • Sorry TT the family WAS cleared that’s why the DA never pressed any charges against them and did not participate in the Grand Jury. The Boulder Police withheld the DNA evidence from Grand Jury, you’ll see what I’m saying when you have a chance to watch Part 3.

      • tamaratattles

        I get my info from direct sources, not Dr Phil. I am only recapping that show because of the Burke interview. The rest of this I read years ago. I’ve tried to explain the DNA to you several times. I’m just going to smile and nod at your comments about it from here on out.

      • Observer2

        TT not trying to argue with you about this, but you’re saying the extensive DNA test that was done in 2008 on the DNA found under her fingernails was done at an unaccredited facility? I don’t go off their opinions, just what the evidence is showing.

        btw, I really am familiar with all of this – but just from a different case. I watched the entire trial of OJ Simpson (except for the coroner’s because I didn’t want to see the gore), because I wanted to get the information direct from the trial and not from the news outlets who evidently watched a completely different trial than I did.

        That’s back when Barry Scheck had to teach the jury about this new evidence called “DNA”. lol I found it fascinating tonight when Dr Lee said they only used 4 markers back then, but now use 16 markers.

    • Observer2

      Wow! It took the Boulder DA Lacey 11 years (July 10, 2008) later to came out that the “touch DNA in Jon Benet’s pajama waistband” matched the DNA found in Jon Benet’s underwear, and was found to be the same male, therefore ruling out the falsehood of the underwear DNA belonging to a male manufacturer in China.

      OMG!

      AND then in the middle of the night 6 months later – down the street from The Ramseys – a mother called police to report her screaming little girl woke her and as she ran to her daughter’s room the mother saw a man dressed as a ninja running from her daughters room and escaping after sexually assaulting her. Yet the police refused to tie it to Jon Benet.

      • Cat

        See? Now, that’s what frustrates me about this case.

        The family was guilty…the family was innocent. Cause of death was strangulation….no, cause of death was the blow to the head. She was sexually assaulted….there was no evidence of sexual assault. On and on and on with the contradictions.

        What a clusterfuck.

      • Shay

        The DNA is bullshit. It was discredited. The guy has been barred as an expert witness and one person put away by his shitty DNA testing for murder was released. He had no training in DNA testing or analysis and failed both his exams. His lab was also not acredited. Look it up.

      • Shay

        Observer, I’m not making light of any of this… but picturing a ninja running away from a crime scene is hilarious. Did he get away by running on tree tops? What made him a ninja and not just a person dressed in black? Did he have nunchakus and throwing stars? White socks and kung fu shoes?

      • Observer2

        LOL Shay, I must admit I thought the same thing about the Ninja – just stating what they said on the show.

  26. tamaratattles

    I got about 3/4 of the way through a recap of Dr. Phil’s show today. I will finish and post that tomorrow.

  27. Cat

    Politics. What a shame that this little girl’s life (and death) was so insignificant to those closest to her. And to those who are supposed to be on the side of the victim.

  28. SamT

    I finished the first part tonight. I’ve DVR’d the second part so I don’t know, but I’m hoping they presented some of the evidence that doesn’t fit with the “a family member did it” theory. After the first part it definitely seems they are heading to a “Burke did it” conclusion. BTW when the voice on the 911 call asked, what did you find? It could have been Burke asking about the ransom note. Which to me, lends credibility to his innocence because 1) if he did it, he would have had to have been told how they planned to cover it up and 2) if he killed her, and they knew it, he surely would not have been asking relative to them finding her body. Not sure that’s clearly stated. I still don’t buy Burke doing it although having an older son and younger daughter I could ostensibly see him clocking her too hard with the flashlight, never meaning to do more than hurt her. I also agree despite what that guy said, I can’t imagine the flashlight wouldn’t have shown some evidence of DNA. That is, unless it had been cleaned off by someone…

  29. missypoo

    Wow. Most interesting coverage I’ve seen. Forensics are so fascinating. really opened my eyes tonight, to a sequence of events I wouldnt have been able to piece together.

  30. Bugg

    I am part of the minority but I still lean towards the intruder theory. I, just like everyone else was stunned, confused, and even offended by Burke’s odd affect but still don’t think it was him or the parents. I agree the ransom note is a fake but feel it was written by someone who was just not all that bright. I picture some sort of lowlife couple and maybe a cousin that watched too many movies and maybe saw the write up about John’s business success in the local paper concocted a plan to extort easy money but something went wrong (who knows what) and JonBenet was somehow killed in the process so they panicked and took off. As far fetched as that may be, I just have a hard time grasping the fact that these people would stage the body of their little girl so heinously after an accidental death in the home.

      • I read on another website how an in depth study of the ransom note pointed overwhelmingly to Patsy being the writer. Certain words and phrases used in the note were also used in Patsy’s writings ever since she obtained her Journalism Degree from West Va. U. The actual handwriting was a “slam dunk,” compared to examples of Patsy’s printing. No matter the previous comparisons done years before, anyone, even a non expert, could see the resemblance. Whoever did the comparisons 20 years ago were probably unduly influenced by the DA’s office to fudge the results away from pointing to Patsy. DA Alex Hunter’s actions from the very beginning and since point to his knowing the family was guilty, but for “political purposes,” (his own words), were being protected.

  31. Sue

    Am I the only one who thought the gardener seemed a little suspicious, and probably had a house key…

  32. Bigred

    I find it very unusual that Patsy and John Ramsey allowed Burke to remain in his bed to sleep after getting a ransom note. As a parent and also unknowing if the intruder was still in the home, I would have had him in my arms so I would assure myself that no harm could come to him that had already happened to my daughter. Also, if the note reads not to do involve the police, etc. or “She dies,” then why pick up the phone first of all to call 911 and then 2 minutes later call friends to come over to their home.

    • Shay

      Big, they didn’t even mention that to the 911 operator. Wouldn’t you say, “There’s a ransom note demanding $118,000 and says if we call the police she dies.” The cops therefore all parked in front of the house, along with their friends. If you thought your daughter was missing and in danger, and the note says they are watching, why wouldn’t you at least tell the police to come in unmarked cars and enter through the back? Probably because you know she’s already dead.

  33. Shay

    I hadn’t heard the suitcase and open window part before. What if John was the one interrupted? Maybe he was going to put her in the suitcase and through the window? And he planned on getting her out with the rest of their luggage for the flight?

  34. Bigred

    Oh, the date of death on her headstone is the 25th. The father had it put there because he said that is the date he believes she died. Patsy didn’t find the ransom note till the 26th, so how did he come to that conclusion? I am assuming he didn’t know the time that a intruder entered the house and killed his daughter.
    For those hung up on the DNA,,,,,, fibers from Patsy’s clothes she wore to the party was found on JonBenet’. She was also wearing the same clothes when friends came over to the house that morning after being called. One of her friends noted this and said it was very odd since Patsy was a very well kept woman and would never wear the same thing twice (day after the fist day).
    The flashlight,,,, who uses a flashlight to put your child to bed in your own home? Did he change her into her LongJohns/pajamas too? I am assuming she probably wore a beautiful outfit to a party? As to the flashlight,,,, well, it just doesn’t make sense! If I were to use it for a crime, I wouldn’t stop with just wiping it off, but I would never have left it out on the cabinet …..
    John also tried to point blame toward Mrs. White (the family who gave the party and also whom they called as soon as they hung up with 911), as her being jealous of Patsy having such a beautiful daughter. He also pointed fingers at the man playing Santa.

    • crimegirl

      I agree with Patsy and her clothing with her wearing the same outfit – Odd with such a “put together” woman. I find her behavior so eccentric – who calls their friends? I would be following the note and not be calling anyone except 911 and telling them to park down the street hoping she doesn’t die. The flashlight on the counter? Can’t it be wiped off with alcohol to remove the obvious traces of blood, or any other DNA? I know Bleach will show up, but what about alcohol? The ransom note being left on the stairs is another thing, why wasn’t it left on the counter? Not on the steps? It was too long, too detailed. Were they actually packed for a trip? Did the detectives see luggage packed and ready to go? When they were interviewing Burke, he was definitely acting odd and covering up that there was a bowl of Pineapple on the counter, maybe knowing she ate pineapple. The intruder story makes sense with the suitcase and the footprint, however… it could have been done at a previous time. NOT the night of the murder. Just an idea. One the other hand, their actions, don’t speak like a kidnapping. I would have grabbed Burke and not let him out of my arms or my sight. He never seemed worried there was a killer “on the loose” as Patsy would say. He seemed to think it was an isolated event also. This is one of the most botched cases in the nation, which is sad because we have a dead 6 year old that will never have any justice done. I believe the truth was buried in 2006. I do believe the 911 call seemed very rehearsed and there was definitely side conversation after she thought she hung up. I don’t believe they were talking about the ransom note when she said “what did you find?”
      because that’s how she knew she was kidnapped when she found the note, she already knew she was kidnapped when she made the call. Maybe they already found the body at that point?
      Since there is no Statute of limitations on murder, IF it was Burke, couldn’t they go back on him.. no matter what his age was at the time?
      The housekeeper seemed to think Patsy did it also, she made comments about the blanket that was wrapped around JonBenet being in the dryer before then because a nightgown was stuck to it due to static cling and only Patsy would have known that. NOT AN intruder. There was also a Swiss Army knife that the housekeeper hid from Burke days before in the linen closet up near JonBenets bedroom upstairs but it was found near little JonBenets body in the basement. She said Patsy would have found it when she changed sheets.

  35. GeneralPsi

    This has me convinced that even tho Burke wasn’t old enough to prosecute makes me think he hit his sister. Maybe poked her a couple times with his train track and when she went to tattle he wacked her. The feces thing is what’s convincing there was a turd in her bed and crap smeared on her Christmas candy. She probably didn’t wet the bed as much as he peed on it.

    Unless I kinda think someone might have been living in that basement for the holiday weeks. And left thru the front door. You ever see those things where someone lives in someones home and hides in the pantries til they get suspicious and put up a hidden camera.

    Also the ninja guy story mentioned on Dr Phil is suspect.

  36. Christine

    Burke and the flashlight doesn’t take into consideration the concurrent strangulation. Even if he hit her and they found her still breathing, you call 911 and report an accident, you don’t go ahead and strangle your child and create an elaborate ruse.

  37. Tabitha White

    WHAT IF…PATSY RAMSEY WOKE UP AND FOUND JONBENET IN HER ROOM (which would corroborate John Mark Carr’s story that she wasn’t killed where she was found), APPARENTLY DEAD, THEN INCORRECTLY ASSUMED THAT BURKE KILLED HER AND SUBSEQUENTLY STAGED THE CRIME SCENE AND THE NOTE????!!!

    • John Mark Carr is delusional and was already proven to NOT have been in Colorado the day JonBenet was killed.

      • SLM

        Interesting theory, Tabitha, but I’m with cmaglaughlin. That guy was already proven to not be a viable suspect even though he confessed. And, this is just my opinion, but what fucked up shit (forgive my language TT) would have been going on in the Ramsey household previous to this for Patsy to find her child horribly murdered and immediately ASSUME her nine year old perpetrated the crime with no evidence and not see him over her body???? That’s a pretty psychotic leap for a mom to make if everything else has been normal prior! My belief is, IF it was Burke, he either told Patsy or she caught him covering JonBenet up or found him with her and he confessed. I just have to think IF there was a family cover up, the entire thing only happened AFTER JonBenet was dead, there was no saving her AND she was dead in such a way as it couldn’t be staged as an accident. It’s the only reason to go to this outlandish Defcon 4 level preposterous kidnapping story. Anything else and they would have made it look like an accident. IF it was the family, that is, and I’m just spouting theory, not accusations. All just my speculative opinion.

      • Tabitha White

        Hmm, all of that makes sense. I should’ve included that I did know that John Mark Carr had an alibi, but what he said about her, not being killed where she was found, brought the idea to my attention. Again, trying to find some logical thought process for an intruder to have used. Obviously it’s proving difficult.

      • Shay

        Tabitha, I think it’s great that you are able to formulate/reformulate your opinion based on evidence and logical thinking. I have the same opinion as a a few people here, but find their thought process obsurd.

    • Tabitha White

      Sorry for the caps;(

  38. jo

    These appear to be professionals and i believe them. But still a 10% lingering doubt.

    If Intruder: What bothers me (and they briefly touched on it) if one child was abducted/murdered, would they not be hiring security to protect the other? They are reasonably affluent. Burke (and his parents) should be extremely scared, if not for his sister, for himself. I would be thinking they’d keep him close at all times, instead of sleeping through much of this.

    If Burke: What would be the ramifications if Burke was guilty? No one convicts a 9 year old boy to prison. Would they really need to cover it up with greater risks to all? And a three page note? I can’t see disguising your handwriting as being that easy. Three pages? That seems incredibly risky. Even a distraught family would realize that.

    I had chills after watching the show.

  39. SLM

    Another thing that bothers me about this case is what others have noted – Patsy and John don’t react on the 26th in any reasonable fashion, even for two grief stricken parents out of their mind with worry. Trust me, even though I’ve never been in this situation (and hopefully never, ever will) I’ve been in some TERRIBLE circumstances and lost quite a few people, so I do understand even at a cursory level that shock, grief and worry can cause all sorts of bizarre reactions. But for all my fellow parents on here, if you woke up the day after Christmas to discover a ransom note and one of your kids missing, I bet you can think of about a million hysterical ways you would react and likely NONE of them matches the Ramsey’s actions. Their daughter is missing and there’s a note threatening her life and demanding ransom, and they DON’T search the house for her and DON’T grab their other child and make sure he’s with them, alright and STAYS with them?? And alternately, might you not worry in a house that large that just MAYBE the perpetrators haven’t left and are somewhere in the house? Or outside? That would be both imminent threat and hope – she might still be there and you might have to rescue her and protect your other family members. But do they search? They claim they didn’t (despite Burke’s recent interview where he says Patsy came I his room yelling that morning before running back out)!! They don’t follow the demands in the note (talk to no one) and yet they don’t go the opposite way either and call in EVERYONE think this would be better (if I were going this route and deciding not to listen to instructions and it were my missing child, I would call police, fire, ambulance, FBI directly and every news station in town so I could make everyone go out looking for who took her). Instead the Ramsey’s invite over their pastor, dozens of friends and don’t even demand of the few uniformed officers there NOT EVEN SEARCHING OR INVESTIGATING that they do something – this isn’t pleasant, but if it were me and the uniforms were standing around doing nothing and claiming they were waiting for senior officers I would lose my shit and start bitching them out like a foul mouthed mental patient on steroids DEMANDING they start doing the kind of search Tommy Lee Jones demands in the movie THE FUGITIVE (you know, “…every outhouse, hen house…”) But they just sit calmly doing nothing and don’t even notice when the deadline that day comes and goes the ransom note said the kidnappers would call. Even traumatized….how are these reasonable reactions in this circumstance?!

  40. cburton

    I am confused about one thing; could someone please help me clarify? James Kolar has stated that he believed John Ramsey discovered Jon Benet’s body when he went missing for that hour while the detective was with the rest of the people in the home. Kolar also believes Burke is the killer; why would John “bark” out to who we think is Burke after the 911 call, “we are not speaking to you”….then you possibly hear Burke say “What did you find?”…..my assumption was that John was upset with Burke because they knew what he had done so he said “we are not talking to you”…..so how could we also think that John did not find her body until 11am when the police were there?

    • tamaratattles

      I took John’s comment(if it was made) to be along the lines of “grown folks are talking.”

      • Cburton

        I think the audibility is quite good on the comment “we are not talking to you”….definitely sounds like John Ramsey to me. But you are right TT, maybe he was simply saying “mind your business Burke”….only problem with that is why would he bark anything at all to his child in a moment like that? If at that time, John was unaware of anything other than the note, why wouldnt he be kind and loving in his tone to his child? Maybe John had done it and was freaking out inside trying to figure out what to do and did not want to be bothered.

        I believe someone in that house did it because of the undisturbed cobweb, yes something that simple is a telltale sign/clue.

        I believe Patsy’s grief each time she mentioned the loss/death of her daughter was real and genuine. However, EVERY time she mentioned finding who did it,etc., that is when she seemed full of crap and fake, meaning she already knew who did it but was genuinely distraught that her daughter was dead.That is why I lean towards believing it was Burke.
        But, I have struggled with thinking it could have been John too. Seriously, what if despite the fact Patsy loved her children very much, she covered up things to keep up the facade of the perfect life?
        What if there were signs, subtle ones, that JonBenet was being abused? She wouldnt want to believe it, yet would ask her husband or son and of course they would deny. Then she winds up dead! She would never want the public to know she had not further examined the possibility of JonBenet being molested plus it would be far too tragically embarrassing. Her daughter is dead, can’t bring her back, so she looks the other way or helps to cover up.

      • Shay

        Cb, a big problem is that Burke was supposed to have been sleeping that whole time. A problem I have with everything– including Patsy and the police in his room but never waking him– is if one of your kids was kidnapped:
        1. Wouldn’t you wake the other child and make sure they weren’t harmed or assaulted or unconscious?
        2. Wouldn’t you wake the child to ask questions? (Did you hear or see anything? When’s the last time you saw your sister? What time did you guys go downstairs and eat pineapple and drink ice tea?)

  41. Meri

    In Colorado a child Burke’s age is considered incapable of committing a crime. He could never be tried under any circumstances at that time because he was under the age of ten. That was pointed out very clearly. . I thought it was ridiculous because there are children who are capable of committing crimes even younger than Burke was and if they never get punished they will continue to commit crimes.

    • piji

      Apparently not. He murdered no one else

      • SLM

        That we know of, piji. NOT saying I am accusing Burke of committing other crimes AT ALL. I repeat, I am NOT saying Burke committed other crimes (not even stating he committed THIS CRIME) Just saying IF he did it and IF it was caused by him being a very intrinsically and organically disturbed individual, there would be every chance a person like that could commit future crimes and NOT be caught for them. I think Ted Bundy went 20 years committing his crimes before he was caught…

        AGAIN, PLEASE, NO ONE MISUNDERSTAND AND SAY I WAS COMPARING BURKE TO TED BUNDY. I’m just saying it is possible for people to commit crimes and never be caught…look at how many millions of unsolved murders and disappearances there are worldwide. Look at this case, for heaven’s sake!

  42. Trynityme

    I just can’t get past the following items to believe the intruder theory…

    1. The ransom note. If you look at the letters compared to Patsy’s letters, they are a match. You do not need to be certified to see this. Just Google it.

    2. Why was Patsy in the same exact clothing as the day before if she was fast asleep all night. Even the housekeeper stated that she never wore an outfit twice (much less sleep in one).

    3. There were spider webs on the grate entering the basement window that were undisturbed. No intruder came in that way.

    4. The housekeeper told the grand jury that her favorite blanket was last known to be in the dryer. It even had a barbie clothing clung to it while wrapped around her.

    5. There was a previous 911 call made on the 23rd during a party at their home in which was disconnected. (Response time inquiry?)

    6. The date listed on her tombstone is that of Dec 25, not the 26th. Interesting or dramatic or both…

    7. The pineapple. Why all the lies around something such as this…

    All signs point to Patsy in a cover up or actual murder. Most would agree she showed mental illness and some have even suggested she was haing an affair and the man she loved, “loved on” JonBenet more. The rage and that jealousy, or just trying to protect the only child she had left, are the only two options that make sense.

    All of this allegedly says something. Also, allegedly SBTC at the end of the ransom note suggests Small Business Technology Coalition located in Boulder CO. All known movie quotes and an affiliation of the Ramseys written in this 2.5 page long ass letter used on their paper with a practice note included.

    Allegedly! I think it was either Patsy with a lamp, then her own paintbrush as a garrot in a fit of rage or a family member (in recent news) with a flashlight that did this and/or covered it up. Allegedly speaking. Nice enough to care that she was wrapped in her favorite blanket but messed up enough to make it staged to look like a ritual demonic event/ thwarted kidnapping with NO interest in any sort of ranson thereby showing the confusion in their head (s).

  43. Philip Wiegand

    Very convincing but 3 weaknesses. 1) If JonBenet was killed immediately for eating a piece of pineapple the pineapple would not have time to make it to her small intestine. 2) The DNA on her underwear was not “touch” DNA and could not have been put there in the manufacturing process 3) There is no explanation for Smits observation that the garotte bruised her neck and there appear to be bruises where she attempted to defend herself while still alive.

    • EVERY world renown expert on the second CBS night agreed. The DNA on the underpants could have ALREADY been there before the package it came in was even opened. They proved that by taking an unopened package of underpants, opened it with protective gloves and had it tested. BINGO…DNA on the underpants, probably from the hand of a Chinese packer employee.

      • VegasTy

        That DNA from the manufacturer would be gone as soon as the underwear were washed! That DNA was not from the manufacturer.

    • MichelleBella

      DNA from the manufacturer would be gone as soon as you washed the underwear! It wouldn’t stay there! A lot of real facts left out in this one.

  44. PopcornAndVodka

    Just finished the second episode, which was much more interesting than the first.

    After watching this and allllll the other shows, I do now think it was Burke. I think the reactions of the old neighbors who refuse to talk about it also points to this. It may very well be an open secret in that community that this was a terrible family tragedy and no one wants more lives ruined. Burke is also the one person I could see everyone covering for. If my husband killed my daughter, accident or not, I’m not sure I could have continued a cover up, no matter how much I loved him. But to save my other child? Absolutely. And it gives more reason for law enforcement to side with the rich white family and let it go.

    I always thought the idea of Burke being the killer was absolutely ridiculous, but at this point he is the one person that fits with the most evidence, and all the reactions from everyone after. And that makes it an even sadder case than I ever imagined.

  45. Lolita

    Yes, that part was weird when that lady was explaining ( I think she was a lawyer). Not sure if that law is still on the books in Colorado, but what difference is 9 of 10? Then all the talk about frontal lobe development. Which isn’t fully developed until age 25. Didn’t make sense

  46. pokerplayer

    20 years ago when this crime took place Initially I thought Burke had done something to JonBenet because on the news footage after the funeral when Burke was coming down the steps of the church he was strangely smiling and I thought, wow, how odd that seemed…when the police were solely looking at the Ramseys and discounting the intruder theory I then thought they had nothing to do with it because so much was being said about an intruder I began to believe it…after seeing part 2 of the CBS show the only thing that makes sense is Burke hit her with the flashlight and the parents covered it up.The 911 tape!!!…what mother would hang up on 911 when she’s reporting her “missing” child???…Patsy (thought) she had hung up the phone but she hadn’t..3 voices can be heard…and that ransom note!!!, really, a 3 page long drawn out statement like that??? I had never known what the complete note contained until the CBS show…also I had never seem the tapes of Burke being interviewed…he had so much trouble saying that it was a bowl of pineapple and milk in the photo even though it was one of his and JonBenet’s favorite snacks. One more thing, years ago it was reported by the police that Patsy was still in full make-up and the same outfit that she had worn to the party the night before…I don’t know if that’s true or not, haven’t heard anything about that in years…I do feel now I know what happen.

    • pokerplayer

      also the police totally bungled and botched the investigation but now I can see why they were only interested in the Ramseys…

  47. John Carter

    Wow what a worthless program! I did not know there were so many incompetent experts. Why didn’t they show any evidence of Patsy’s handwriting for comparison with the note writing? Why? Because if they did it would show that the writing was not Patsy’s. The note looks like male writing. Female writing is usually more consistent and artful. If I were Burke, I would definitely be filing a lawsuit against CBS. This was complete garbage.

  48. Tano

    I don’t get the bombshell details they revealed? It’s the same thing Boulder police said, it was Burke or patsy. You knew from the trailers even before this premiered who these people were investigating, the Ramseys, no one else no other possible suspect but the Ramseys. Problem is, Jonbenet died from both asphyxiation and blunt force trauma, the strangling came first, you could clearly see scratches on her neck which might possibly be her fingernails from struggling not to mention she had samples of DNA in her fingernails which doesn’t match anyone in that house, the DNA in her underwear matches the DNA found in her fingernails. A few days or weeks after her murder a couple of blocks from where Jonbenet lived a girl was sexually assaulted,the mother thankfully heard her screams and when reporting it to the police the parents of that girl thought it may be related to the jonbenet case, the boulder police didn’t bother trying to see if there was a connection.People seem to view this as some law and order episode. Oh the brother did it. It’s amazing what people would believe to make for a more interesting story. No one wants to admit their wrong. The boulder police could have easily found the murderer if they weren’t so sloppy from the get go. The person who did it was sloppy but because of the boulder police he/she got away with it. They refuse to acknowledge DNA evidence and tried to blame it on the manufacture office, once again they tried to put blame on someone other than themselves. They refuse to admit they screwed up this whole case. They went on gut feeling not actual physical evidence and these idiots are doing the same thing.

    • The Grand Jury was convinced by the evidence presented that the parents were guilty. It was Alex Hunter, the DA, who did the politically correct thing by not going forward to prosecute. The police, in the end, did their job. The DA, did the easy thing. NOTHING!

  49. Greybees

    Anyone one who watched and listened carefully to the CBS report and noted the world class qualifications of the assembled team and discounts their unanimous carefully considered conclusions is being irrational. The fact that the Grand Jury many years ago voted to inditement of Ramsey’s despite the District Attorney’s best effort to get the case dismissed speaks volumes. The handling of this murder case by the former DA was criminal.

  50. Teacher

    Some questions. Did any of the DNA under her fingernails, on her pjs, and underwear match? Was is all male DNA? Did they test the Fleet White family? Children at school?

    Was she dead when the carotte was applied? if not, why didn’t CBS discuss this? It has deep implications about the family if they ‘finished her off.” 😱

    How likely is it that Burke would have hit her with the flashlight at that angle? If he did, were the parents immediately aware this had happened? How could they not hear it?

    • larry williard

      What I read a lot is that many people believe the parents did not act like they would or that they believe any body would if it happened to them. This really has nothing to do with the case. Maybe some of you remember some years back an Australian woman had her child removed from a tent while camping and she was missing but the cloths were outside the tent. The police said the parents killed the child whose body was never found. She went to jail for murder, she was interviewed several times and she did not act normal, comely describing how a dingo could remove the clothes and never cried or never acted like a parent that lost a child. Then some months later they found the kid and it was proven it append exactly like she said, a dingo pulled the child out of the tent and removed the clothes and dragged him to a cliff where they body was found at the bottom. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/world/asia/after-32-years-coroner-confirms-dingo-killed-australian-baby.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain
      She was released. I also had a girlfriend that laughed when she was supposed to cry. Everybody is not the same. You cant let a persons reaction affect the facts.

      On the other hand, I found the investigation by PROFILERS to be really flawed, looked to me like the same old story, make the facts fit the suspicions. The cops screwed up royally and now they wont let anybody else review the evidence collected now that more modern methods are available and wont do it them selves. However it was my speculation that Burk did it and the parents covered it up from the first day I saw it in the news, BUT as many people pointed out why make such an elaborate cover up. Why not just say it was an accident.
      Every theory is so full of holes and assumptions, unless someone credible admits to it, we will never know.

    • Observer2

      The DNA from the pajamas and underwear matched and were from an unrelated male.

      No, the carotte killed her – there was petechial hemmorhaging around her eyes from strangulation.

      • tamaratattles

        THERE IS NOT DNA EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE . THIS IS NOT A DNA CASE. THE TOUCH DNA CRAP WAS BULLSHIT MADE UP BY SOMEONE WHO THE COLORADO COURTS HAVE DISCREDITED BECAUSE HE HAD NO QUALIFICATIONS IN THE FIELD OF DNA AND IS FOBIDDEN FROM EXPERT TESTIMONY IN THE STATE OF MOTHER FUCKING CALIFORNIA> PLEASE STOP POST DISPUTED INFORMATION HERE. THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING.

  51. Moto

    Can someone explain to me why the body was not discovered for 6-8 hrs after the 911 call. If my child is missing I tear my house apart looking. What time did the police arrive at the house?

  52. Emme

    I have suspicions about both Burke and John. When they show him the picture of the pineapple and milk on the table from that night, it’s like a light bulb goes off in his head. He sees it, it signals something in him and he says “oh….that’s….something”. He gets where it’s going and hesitates likely trying to figure out how to play it out. In the Dr. Phil interview he also stated something along the lines of hearing his parents rush into his room “that night”. Uh 6 in the morning is not the night time, and rarely do I mix up the two. By putting her tombstone as Dec 25th, I’m convinced they know or are responsible for that what happened.

    John saying “we’re not talking to you”, locating the body first, disappearing.. – could it be a staged ransom he planned for $ that went wrong? Or, if its truly an outsider the first thing I’m doing it running for my husband, scared out of my mind and going with him to get my older child to see if he’s ok and question him about what he’s seen or heard possibly. I’m calling 911 and getting the heck out of the inside of my house worth fear there is still someone inside

  53. Laura

    Hey TT, I think I heard that the Ramsey family were to be leaving that morning to go on vacation. I’m not a super neat freak, but if I was going out of town my house would be a little more “picked up” than what was shown in the photos. I’m thinking that something tragic happened the evening before they found the ransome note. And they never got the house ready to leave. Also, was the handwriting on the note ever proven to be Patsy’s? I have always noticed a very specific way the letter “a”was written.

  54. To comment on the CBS show itself…. Out of all the specials I have watched on this topic lately, this was by far the most poorly done, in my opinion. Literally four hours I cannot get back.

  55. Cap

    Truly a pathetic ratings hit job. How did it pass legal? Too bad some of the more notable experts soiled themselves by participating. They came out losers . A first year law student could take this troupe to task. No wonder the DA didn’t press charges. How touching, laying flowers on her grave after trying to destroy her brother a then ten year old so smart but devious and borderline pathological he could keep a secret so hideous by understanding the implications of gastric breakdown of pineapple in relation to a timeline of events in order to hide the crime. The crime is this clown show. The should rename it. The National Inquisition . They should be sued. They deserve it.
    Cap. LCSW, DCSW, child advocate, retired.

  56. Bigred

    Now I understand that CBS is being sued for the professional investigators all suggesting it was Burke. His lawyers have filed against them.
    He may have killed his sister and now possibly make a shit load of $$$$ off of a lawsuit.

    • Observer2

      Wow! I had just decided not to delve in to this case and let it go, but if this ends up being true – I might just take the time to after all.

  57. Bigred

    Burke turned 10 yr old on January 27th, a few weeks after her death. So 9 yrs and 11 months old = not being able to charge him for her death .
    4 weeks later= able to charge him.

  58. Rob

    No intruder is going to spend an hour writing 3 versions of a 3 page (far too long) ransom letter. Doesn’t that alone reek of an act of desperation to throw police off the trail. The Ramseys avoided the police like the plague and did not cooperate. Friend were invited over and were seen cleaning the kitchen. That’s probably why the flashlight, the murder weapon, had no trace of skin, hair, or blood. Sherlock Holmes would easily have deduced this as a family job and cover up. Unfortunately, money and power has bought out common sense.

    • Keith Shirey

      Money and power has ruined law enforcement departments, peoples jobs and wasted tax payers money and resources. This alone is criminal. The father should be in jail till he dies.

      • Keith Shirey

        I really believe that she was dead from impact of object to her head.The father was in the navy, maybe an officer-pilot.He would know how to tie a garrot. As for the finger nail marks he or the mother made adjusments thereafter. Timeline suggests death at 10:15 pm, leaving about seven hours till they called 911.Plenty of time for the mother to write note and for the father to stage basement. Then to review and clean objects at hand. There simply is no reason for continuosly moving her body, inviting neighbors, hiring lawyers and controlling the police investigation if the Ramseys are innocent.

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