Part 2 of Dr Phil Interview With Burke Ramsey

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IF YOU MISSED OUR DISCUSSION IN THE COMMENTS OF PART ONE, CLICK HERE! 

Dr Phil begins part two of his interview with Burke Ramsey by asking if he went to Jon Benet’s funeral.  He did and he talks about the small casket and how one of her eyes was kind of droopy. Again, he has the same, consistent, smiling affect he has had throughout the interview. This is very usual, a discordant affect is most often one that is emotionless when an emotion is called for, known as a blunt affect. Burke maintains the same look of a pleasant emotion consistently throughout the interview. He said he felt a lot of sadness, and he didn’t really grasp that he would not see her again.  Most kids by the age of four or five understand the permanence of death, although most associate it only with old people.  By nine, a child should have a full grasp on the realities of death.  His smiling is even more pronounced talking about the funeral. Dr. Phil seems… slightly annoyed.  They show photos of the family leaving the funeral. Everyone is visibly upset and most are crying. Except for Burke. Burke is smiling and has a spring in his step.  He says his mother cried all the time after that. “They” kept trying to get him to go upstairs and comfort her.

The Ramseys wanted to bury their daughter here in Atlanta. But the police wanted more interviews and threatened to block the transport of Jon Benet’s body. This is when the battle between the Ramseys and the police began to escalate. When the Ramseys stopped working with the police, the police stopped coddling the Ramseys.

Dr. Phil asked Burke about the theories that the family was involved in the murders. Burke gets a glint in his eye, literally, when Dr. Phil mentions the “Burke Did It Theory (BDIT).”  Yesterday I was convinced that Burke had nothing to do with it. Last night I read an Ask Me Anything (AMA) by a Denver Chief Police.  While he refused to openly state who he though killed Jon Benet, it seemed clear by his presentation of evidence that it had to be someone in the house.  John, Patsy or Burke.  I seem to be leaning toward a parental cover up for Burke theory at the moment, but frankly, all the bits and pieces of this puzzle have never fit together snuggly. In order to make a picture out of the pieces, some have to be forced in and others left out altogether.

It’s interesting to see Lin Wood, a prominent Atlanta attorney who represented the Ramsey’s on this show. He was a pall bearer at Patsy’s funeral.

Burke says that the ransom note does not look like his mother’s handwriting to him. Both John and Burke claim that the handwriting is too sloppy to be Patsy’s handwriting. Yet there are many matches with her known handwriting. Even so, experts cannot conclusively say that Patsy wrote the ransom note.

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The Patsy Did It Theory (PDIT) has Patsy furious with Jon Benet for wetting the bed. She was six. This is of interest to me because the police claim that there was evidence of prior sexual abuse before the night of her death.  Childhood sexual abuse can cause children to wet the bed at night at an age well past when that is normal. The theory is that Patsy threw Jon Benet on the bathroom floor and it inadvertently fractured her skull.  Then, according to this scenario, she freaked out, took her daughter downstairs, staged a sexual abuse attack that I will not get into, and strangled her.  When Jon Benet was found she was fully dressed. So someone would have had to put her clothes back on her after she was eventually strangled as the skull fracture was not the cause of death. The COD was strangulation.  After killing her child, Patsy then went to write the ransom note.  Sidenote: According to the AMA I read, there has never been another case where a ransom note was left in the house where the child was abducted.

Dr Phil asks if Burke know about the PDIT. He says he knew about the cover up theory, but not about the bed wetting part. Flash to his interview, age 9 with the police detective where he talks about Jon Benet wetting the bed. How would he know that? I thought he stayed in his room the whole time?  Burke says he used to wet the bed too. This saddens me. I am reminded now why I blanked out most of this from my brain previously.

Burke said he never saw her mother violent in any way. She never spanked her kids. Dr. Phil tries to get Burke to say he was jealous of Jon Benet because of all the time spent on pageants and the mother daughter bonding. Burke denies this saying he spent with his mother at the pageants.

IF YOU MISSED OUR DISCUSSION IN THE COMMENTS OF PART ONE, CLICK HERE! 

 

There was discussion about the 911 call.  The phone did not hang up when Patsy put it down. Some people think that Burke’s voice was on the phone. Burke says he was in bed at that time. John says Burke was asleep. Burke told the cop that he was in bed awake with his eyes open wondering what might have happened and that he could hear his mom going psycho.  It is interesting to me that 9-year-old Burke used the term “going psycho” as if it was a situation he was used to, and that he may have had experience staying in his room during these psycho episodes. Even though 29-year-old Burke seems to say that his mother was not prone to such behavior. The tape supposed shows a voice believed to be Burke saying, “What did you find?” Burke denies saying this. Burke has a lot of body language that suggests lying. This has been consistent throughout the interview. Again, it could just be nerves but the body language intensifies at this point. Also, some say that John can be heard, presumably yelling at Burke, “We’re not speaking to you!”  Burke  says, “I definitely don’t remember that.”  I wish Dr Phil would immediately ask, what do you remember happening right after the 911 call?  Instead, Burke says completely unprompted, “I dunno, unless someone erased my memory or something.” Then he laughs.

Dr. Phil who continues to be frustrated says, “Well a 911 call with your mother hysterical about your sister being kidnapped would seem to me to be a stand out moment in your life.”  He says he would remember it but he was not there.

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Finally, the child psychologist video Dr. Phil claims “nobody in the world has seen before.” Lin Wood says that the police went to the house where Burke was staying and told the caretakers they had permission to interview Burke. Lin Wood says that was an absolute lie.

Dr Phil shows Burke the footage taken 13 days after the murder. Dr Phil makes a big deal out of Burke not drawing a picture of Jon Benet. Dr Phil refers to some interpretations that Burke didn’t have any emotion about Jon Benet’s death. We were not shown anything of the sort. At least not yet.

Dr Phil tells us that, “While Burke was watching he tapes, he was watching Burke.”  Burke says about not drawing Jon Benet, “I don’t know what was consciously going through my head, but she was gone, so I didn’t draw her.” Then he shrugs.

Psychologist: What do you think happened to your sister?

Burke: I know what happened to my sister.  I think….well I asked  my dad where did they find her body and …my, my dad said (unintelligible)  in the basement to himself. I, I think someone… took her very quietly and took her down to the basement…and he took a knife out and he whoops like that!  (gestures a hitting motion) . Probably a hammer and he hit her in the head with it.

Wow. That is a lot of detail. Present day Burke says the woman kept pressing him so he gave a hypothetical.

The Pineapple Bowl.  Undigested pineapple was found in Jon Benet’s stomach during the autopsy. Both John and Patsy deny that Jon Benet had pineapple before she went to bed. Patsy says she did not put the bowl there. She would not have “set it up like this” (as seen in the photo.) The fingerprints on the bowl belonged to Patsy. This makes the police think she is lying about more than just pineapple.

The police asked Burke “What was Jon Benet’s favorite snack?”

He replies “I don’t think she had a snack anytime before bed.”

Cop:  “Some moms cut up apples.”

Burke: ” Yeah. ”

Cop ” What else would she do?”

Burke “That’s all I know of. Maybe pineapple.”

Cop: “Do you ever have iced tea?”

Burke: “Maybe around Christmas time”

Next to the pineapple bowl there was a glass of iced tea. The glass had Burke’s finger prints.

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The Flashlight and the Baseball Bat.

Jon Benet’s skull fracture was eight and a half inches long. A metal flashlight or a baseball bat could have caused the injury. The baseball bat was found outside. It had fibers from the basement floor where Jon Benet was found.

Burke says the baseball bat was outside on the porch most of the time. He also remembers going downstairs after his father used a flashlight to take him up to bed. What is it with John and the cops using a flashlight in Burke’s room? Was there no electricity? Burke says he doesn’t remember if he used the flashlight to go back downstairs.

The strangulation occurred between 45 minutes and two hours after the head strike.

A big deal is made about Burke swinging a golf club and accidentally hitting his sister in the face with the club on his back swing while she was behind him.

Oh this is interesting, the autopsy did NOT show signs of sexual abuse. Some other “experts” after the fact said it was possible. For me, this takes prior sexual abuse off the table. I’ve seen enough trials to know that the best autopsy information comes from the person who conducts the autopsy and those who analyze later are motivated by payment from one side of the case or the other. Burke denies that he or anyone sexually abused Jon Benet.

The series continues NEXT MONDAY on Dr. Phil.

THIS IS A MURDER CASE. WHILE THERE WAS A STAGED SEXUAL ASSAULT IT IS NOT A SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE. IT MAY BE NECESSARY TO REFER TO A SEXUALT ASSUALT THAT OCCURRED IN THE STAGING BUT WE DO NOT NEED TO DISCUSS THAT SUBJECT AT LENGTH. 

THIS IS ALSO NOT A CHILDHOOD SURVIVORS SUPPORT GROUP. DO NOT POST ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH ABUSE OR DISCUSS THE ABUSE OF SOMEONE YOU KNOW. 

UNLESS THE STAGED SCENE WHERE A SEXUAL ACT OCCURRED IS RELAVENT TO YOUR OPINION ON WHO COMMITTED THE MURDER, IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO BRING IT UP AT ALL. 

IF I HAVE TO CONTINUE TO READ AND DELETED GRAPHIC CHILDHOOD SEXUAL ABUSE STORIES, OR ANY SEXUAL ABUSE STORIES THIS FORUM WILL DISAPPEAR COMPLETELY. 

216 Comments

Filed under Dr. Phil, Entertainment News

216 responses to “Part 2 of Dr Phil Interview With Burke Ramsey

  1. Margarett

    Another insightful recap. Much like at the time of this crime, my opinion goes from one “camp” to another. This was all so very sad. I can’t help thinking how an entire family was murdered,”by person or persons unknown”.

    • Brandee

      I was wondering wouldn’t it be possible that young Ramsey very quietly fixed Jon Benet pineapple from a dirty dish from the sink. Why not? As a young child taking care of myself then I can remember sometimes the dishes in the cabinet were impossible to reach.

    • John

      This will turn out like the Skakel/Kennedy killing. When Burke is much older science will advance to the point where they can prove he did it in my opinion. The only other possible explanation is that someone was already in the house before they got home. That would explain the long rambling ransom note and the time spent preparing it. I don’t hear anyone talking about Burke taking any lie detector tests. Has any discussion of that ever surfaced?

  2. Shay

    This whole thing is very sad. But thanks for covering this interview. Burke seemed like a ventriloquist, talking through that creepy smile. (The AMA is totally worth the read.)

    • I also found Burke’s demeanor to be weird and inappropriate – his expressions, and even what he said, never fit the situation. The resemblance to his mother was offputting to me, because I kept flashing back to the way she often said “that child” when denying she had anything to do with JonBenet’s death. I’ve NEVER called either of my children “that child” even once in my 47 years of being a mother – it sounds cold and suggests a psychological distancing. Also, Burke seems to have some kind of mental problem, which no doubt was already diagnosed at the time of JonBenet’s death. -he’s definitely not what most people would call “normal”. I know foreign DNA was supposedly found on JonBenet’s clothing, but when that was put there could have been earlier than the evening of her death. I still think there’s a huge possibility that the family was involved, although I am more suspicious of Patsy and/or Burke. I never got a strange vibe from the dad – just thought he could probably have helped cover things up to protect what was left of his family. It’s human nature to try to protect your wife and children, even when they’ve done something horrendous, especially if there was some kind of behavioral problem involved.

      • I’ve used the phrase “that child is my whole heart” in referring to my niece. I don’t have kids, but I couldn’t love my sisters kids more if they were my own. I’m southern, like Patsy, maybe it’s a southern thing, it’s not uncommon to say down here, for what it’s worth. It is actually extra emphasis of love, if that makes sense. Like when people speak of their husbands…. That man is the sweetest man I know, for example, which is true in my case in referring to my husband.

  3. I have been watching a lot of the shows they have had on old and updated about this. It just is so heartbreaking and sickening. There is still so much conflicting information. There was talk of some terrible animosity between the prosecutors and the police that really hindered the investigation. One show revealed that the Grand Jury had voted to indict, however the lead prosecutor wouldn’t sign because he didn’t think they could win.

    It’s all so sad. I didn’t get to see Dr. Phil but will watch on demand. I really hate that this poor child went through this horrid heartbreaking end to her life on earth.

    I still don’t know what to think.

  4. RustyTrombone

    If I recall correctly, the alleged sexual abuse could have come from say riding her brand new bike Christmas Day, they could never say whether there was actual trauma.

  5. ZenJen55

    Jon Benets Dr suspected sexual abuse due to recurring vaginitus, I spelled it wrong. The theory has been that it was Burke who was diddling with her.
    This is an odd interview and just strange. It muddies the water instead of clearing it up. It seems more plausible that Burke was involved and John and Patsy covered it up IMO after watching this.

    • crampina

      That could have been caused by bubble bath.

    • lavidaLinda

      I watched one of the other JonBenet recent shows (on TLC I think) and her actual doctor was on it and stated that he under no circumstances did he ever think, or say, that she was sexually abused.

      I thought then and I still believe now that it was an intruder.

      • Yes, Jon Benet’s pediatrician firmly stated that she was not sexually abused. He has never changed his story. There are 7 doctors who claim she was sexually abused, butt it is my understanding that they gave “armchair” opinions based on the transcripts and reports they read.

      • Yes, Matzah! Her regular pediatrician clearly stated he was very careful to look for signs of sexual abuse in all his patients. He went onto say that the vaginal mucosa was inflamed due to vaginitis, which he stated was common in female children due to poor wiping technique, reactions to soaps, etc. He steadfastly denied belief that any prior sexual abuse occured & stood by this claim.

      • Laura Gray

        The show barely mentions that the Ramsey had tons of strangers traipsing thru their house on a tour of homes. Plus they’d had a Christmas party. That’s an entire pool of suspects not investigated. I’d also like to say that during that time I was a waitress who waited on the family multiple times. John & Patsy NEVER snapped at the kids or talked to them in an impatient & condescending manner. And they were always nice to all the staff. This may seem trivial but how people treat “servants” says a lot about true nature

      • tamaratattles

        Three were over 100 people interviewed and eliminated as suspects.

        There was no evidence of a breaking. Kidnappers do not stay in the house for three hours murdering children in stages. Nor do they write three page ransom note on the mother’s stationary.

      • Boy, that intruder was very interesting to say the least. Enters the house thru a tiny window without disturbing the cobwebs. Abducts a child from her room without creating any disturbance.
        Takes her downstairs and feeds her her favorite dessert while writing a 3 page ransom letter. Oh and that’s the 3rd attempt at the letter after i guess they decided their penmanship was too bad on the first 2. Puts the pad and pen back where he found them because he didn’t wanted to leave a mess i guess. Now he takes her down to the basement and bashes her over the head with the family flashlight and waits around for another 45 min – 2hours before strangling her with a garrote made out of items in the house. For some reason sticks her with a piece of traintrack and them puts a piece of the paintbrush in her vagina without really doing any serious damage to her. Then he leaves the house thru the window-again not disturbing the cobwebs-but i guess forgets that he wanted $118,000 ransom for the child because he forgets to take the girls body with him. Oh well.

      • tamaratattles

        Thank you for that. It’s a very succinct disapproval of the IDI theories. :)

    • tamaratattles

      agreed I just watched the dr say she was not abused sexually as well. There was no evidence in the autopsy of any prior sexual abuse prior to that night.

      • sandra stephens

        how often do pediatrician look at a 6 year olds hyman????? Never unless the SA is thought to be happening. why would her dr look at her hyman before she passed?

      • Sherry Kensinger

        It’s not unusual for a pediatrician to check a female child’s vaginal area. Young girls can often get vaginitis, yeast infections and other irritations caused by soaps, bubble baths and most especially improper wiping.

    • No, you are completely mistaken. He said the opposite.

    • marje

      I started watching the show on CBS with all the investigators putting together the evidence. It seems they are pointing to Burke but tonight is the finish of the report. Once years back someone did an investigation and said it snowed after the murder and that is why no footprints outside the window. Now they say the spider webs were not disturbed and no sign of breaking in at all throughout the home. If that is true, does it not prove it has to be someone inside the house? I wonder where John disappeared to for over an hour after the police got there? They should have gone along with the police investigation right from the start.. This is why they looked so guilty. Also, that long letter that a person who just killed a child should have written. That seems so odd. I don’t believe that happens. So odd too the amount of the so called ransom. The child’s body not hidden. if they wanted to say they took her why was the body not hidden? The 911 call has the phone not hung up and sounds like three voices. Patsy goes from frantic to ok in seconds when she thinks the operator does not hear her. Too much points to a cover up of some kind.

  6. Rakely

    This is just- wow. Thank you for the recap. I forgot how sad this case made me, but I’m drawn to true crime case trials.

    I don’t believe that we will ever know the exact details and events as they truly occured. We can speculate and get pretty close, but we won’t know. Just like with Casey Anthony and Caylee.

    My uncle served 2 years in prison for a murder based on eye witness testimony. Only by chance, when the actual killers were bragging about how they got away with it did they come to justice and my uncle was released. Long tangent, I’m just trying to say that I’m not sure I could sit on a jury for a case such as this. How can we ever really know?

  7. I totally agree, someone in that house killed Jon Benet and the others covered it up. Burke is lucky he never was charged or had to take the stand. His weird smile and demeanor would have gotten him locked up for sure.

  8. Rakely

    This is so much more heartwrenching, Tamara, than a silly housewives show. I sincerely appreciate that you watched and shared with us. I come here for the housewives recaps, but love your site even more when you show sensitivity and respect and intelligence while covering a delicate topic. Thank you

  9. TAMARA

    After your first recap I didn’t think I had missed much. But this recap makes me want to watch it. It is such a horrid story and so many unanswered questions.

    • tamaratattles

      THis episode had much more meat to it and was worth watching. THe first part was a lot of background that most of the readers here already knew, broad strokes.

  10. Toni Lee Gildea

    I watched both shows, and will watch the last one next week. Why on Earth would Burke do the Dr Phil show? That smile on his face was very disturbing.

  11. Interesting interview but I am just going to add what I do actually remember as I never wanted as most ppl don’t want to think Patsy knew or had anythg to do wth Ths horrific crime. Burke answers dr Phil’s ? In regard to patsy being prone to explosive rages or somethg to that affect, he answers no that he had never witnessed “her” mother reacting as such. What I am getting @ is that I definately remember a video of Patsy pushing Jon Benet on a swing (home video) & she was most definately heavily medicated, talking incessantly, repetitive speech, basically “batshit” crazy”. & this was prior to the death of JB. At the end of the video she reveals that she is on Prozac & Ativan which most likely was the cause of her behavior, but I hav to believe patsy ws prone to these so called rages as she was dealing wth ovarian cancer. @ one time patsy as u all know I’m sure was a beauty queen of some sort & my guess is that she was very angry that this disease lowered her self esteem significantly. Much like many ppl like yolanda foster & the list goes on these mothers who were formerly models & involved in pageantry attempt to live out there life through their children. So again it’s my belief Burke had a front seat to these rages, however he may chose to forget or is flat out lying.JMO

    • Meredo

      @Ellie, I completely disagree with your perception of Patsy. I find her to be a loving mother in every video I’ve seen of her with JonBenet. She just did not seem capable of murdering her own child, imo. I also remember an interview with Patsy when she said that after her ordeal with ovarian cancer, JonBenet wetting the bed was petty and trivial to her, not something she would go ballistic over. Made sense to me then as it does now. I feel so sad that Patsy died (from ovarian cancer) before her name was cleared as a suspect in the murder of her child. Officially cleared that is as I know many people still think she had something to do with it.

  12. Katie

    His affect is odd to be sure, but I really don’t think anyone in the family killed her. The A&E documentary (I think it was this one, I watched it last week) said they had their house in some decorations thing for the public to come and walk through. I think it’s likely someone went and scoped the place out. Possibly someone who worked with John or even more likely at the bank since they knew his exact bonus. Plus she had taser marks on her body. And the DNA found they said was from a Hispanic male.

    • I saw that one as well. Then there was one, I believe it was Dateline , Sunday night. I am getting confused.

      I thought it was interesting the different sides each of the “law and order” people had. The different perspectives they all brought. I honestly don’t know. I hope it wasn’t the family. Maybe it damaged young Burke. Some of the answers he was giving according to TT and prior interviews sounds like there was something going on in that house.

    • Katie, I watched that one too. I have to say that with all the back & forth theories, DNA does not lie. Common sense seems to have been lost in this case as well.

      Also, women who kill their children historically do not use a makeshift garat (sp?) out of a paintbrush. There were fingernail marks suggesting she was concious while being attacked & that the blow to the head was after.

  13. SLM

    Again, I just can’t get past the inexplicableness of an outside assailant breaking in undetected, taking her from her room, inflicting a head injury on JonBenet, waiting around 45 minutes to 2 hours in the middle of the night also hoping not to be found out and then strangling her. Then leaving again with nobody noticing anything. I can’t imagine any criminal just BEING in the home where they are committing a crime they clearly want to get away with for possibly HOURS when any member of the family at any moment might discover them. Even if someone “scoped out the house” in a holiday tour, how would they know what the family’s overnight habits were and that they could be in the house that long with no risk of anyone finding out? My dad used to get up around 2 am every morning, go to our kitchen and fix himself some tea with sugar and go back to bed half an hour later nearly every day of his life. No one outside of our house knew about this habit. What if one of the Ramseys was an insomniac? Or a night owl? The assailant would be at risk of being discovered every second they were in there. I could see an outsider breaking in and snatching her away, but to just stay there? It’s bizarre. It was either someone who knew them SO well they felt confident being there, or one of them. Or, as far fetched as this sounds, someone who knew they could get away with it even if discovered. Was John into any nefarious business practices?

  14. SamT

    I have read numerous books and articles about this case, many years ago. Unfortunately my recall for details is no longer what it used to be, since “the change” is turning my brain to mush. I do, however, remember thinking it was a stretch and somewhat implausible that Burke had killed her. I really want to not judge him for his strange affect of smiling in the interview but it’s bizarre. He smiles as if he is fondly telling an amusing story about an old friend when he is discussing very serious topics like his sister’s funeral. If in fact he does have some kind of issue like asperger’s syndrome, or even if he’s just socially awkward, it would seem someone would have worked with him on social skills and appropriate behavior in this type of serious conversation before now. I know he is an adult but I am surprised someone did not advise him against this interview as it is giving the impression he is “off” and many might not be able to get past that. I had heard some new evidence is set to be presented on one of these upcoming shows about the case. I would love to see a solid, irrefutable resolution to this case but I’m not sure it will ever happen. As for Burke I am now more confused than ever.

  15. I never believed Patsy or John had anything to do with it, and Burke was just too young and not big enough. I have always thought it was an intruder who came in while the family was out that night, then took their time writing out the ransom note and planning their escape with Jon Benet. Something went wrong and the kidnap plan turned into a murder and escaping the house unseen plan instead.
    Poor Burke. He seems so lost.

    • SLM

      A person or persons coming in earlier while they were away and making a plan was something I hadn’t considered, cammie, but it isn’t impossible. It would give whoever it was time to scope the house, and it isn’t beyond reason that someone could have had a real kidnap for ransom plan that went deadly wrong instantly (like the Lindbergh kidnapping). But, again, if someone waiting undetected until the family went to bed accidentally killed her in an attempt to abduct her, why did they wait around for 45 minutes to 2 hours AFTER delivering the serious head injury (accidentally or on purpose) to then strangle her and THEN leave? Just so much of this makes no sense.

      • Margarett

        The program on ID is good. I imagine that it is the same as the one on A&E. Is this where we can discuss those besides Dr. Phil without spoiling?

      • cammierari

        I think after she was tased, she was too heavy for the person to lift out of the open basement window, the way they came in. Maybe the kidnapper dropped her, or banged her head against the wall in an effort to lift her up and push her out the window? Or maybe they hit her to keep her quiet and it was a harder blow than they thought? Once that happened, I believe the kidnapper had to change their plan and leave her-which is when they decided to fashion a garotte and strangle the poor girl to death.

        I blame the police for not securing the crime scene immediately, and asking the father and a friend to search the house BEFORE the police did! That’s why this crime was never solved IMO and why the Ramsey’s were uncooperative. They knew they didn’t do it, and as long as the police looked at them, the crime was never going to be solved. Pretty frustrating as a parent in shock and grief.

      • SLM

        I know I keep stating this to the point of being annoying, but that gap between the head I jury and the final strangulation is the most perplexing of all. Everything you said about how/why the head injury happened with an outside assailant isn’t improbable, but then they would have realized quickly that taking her out of the house that way was impossible. They just trooper through the house in the dark of night to get her undetected in that scenario, so why not go back upstairs and leave a different way? And they were strong enough to carry her down one set of stairs from her bedroom to the first floor while she was unconscious and then again down the stairs to the basement, but weren’t strong enough to lift her out a pretty wide window in the basement? And she was a very small six year old. And even if that was the way it happened…why stand there 45 minutes to 2 hours after THEN kill her with the strangulation? Just so much seems to not add up with any theory in the end

      • cammierari

        I agree there are many weird facts to string together, but an outsider still makes them fit better to me. That basement window was probably over the person’s head, which means they had to lift Jon Benet pretty high up to get her out. That may have taken a while, and maybe she was dropped in the process, hitting her head. Forty five minutes isn’t that long to come up with Plan B. Such a very sad and haunting story.

      • SLM

        It is just HEARTBREAKING, cammie. One thing though that also bothers me about the intruder theory is, why be traipsing around the house at night without having neutralized the other people there? If they waited it out all day and into the night silently and undetected…which is not out of the realm of possibility….and had a plan to incapacitate JonBenet before making off with her, why not know out the others to be ASSURED that he could go about the crime without fear of detection? Where a mask and use chloroform, or take them or knock them out and tie them up? If an outside intruder was the perp, they managed to go around a lot with no one noticing, so they easily could have slipped in to the others rooms and eliminated the threat of being found out. But I can’t see them continuing to go around all over the house AFTER delivering a serious blow to JonBenet possibly for HOURS still enacting a ransom scene and then coming up with a final solution of going ahead and killing her and STILL leaving her body there (as in, they didn’t kill her AND take her in hopes they could still collect a ransom).

      • cammierari

        I don’t think the person was kidnapping Jon Benet for a ransom. I think they wanted Jon Benet and made up a ransom angle to throw suspicion off themselves. The person could be very familiar with the house floor plan, and knew that they wouldn’t have too much trouble getting JB out without having to incapacitate anyone else, which would have left more clues, and taken more time. I think plan A took a sudden turn and the pedophile panicked. Once plan A went south, the number 1 concern was getting out asap. I’m betting it was someone the Ramsey’s knew, which makes it even creepier.

      • SLM

        I hear what you are saying cammie, and, again, my mind isn’t made up on any one theory, but if an outside intruder panicked after accidentally smashing her in the skull somehow, then wanted to flee the scene quickly, they changed their minds and waited around for at least 45 minutes after the head injury – if not a full two hours – and then strangled her. Why not strangle her right away and hoist themselves out the window and away to freedom?

      • Margarett

        There are many contradictions from all those involved with the investigation. There were so many mistakes made during the investigation. Why is the 45 minutes to 2 hours an absolute?

      • Carrie

        Perhaps the time in between was used by the intruder to sexually abuse Jonbenet. I’m not sure, nor do I want to know, to what sexual abuse occurred, however, if it did occur, this could be plausible in the timeline. A real kidnapping attempt gone wrong does make sense in many ways to me. IMO. The house was huge and everyone was upstairs, this horrible crime taking place in the basement could very well go on for a while without being heard. Another possibility is that removing Jonbenet from the house was never intended. That the perpetrator only intended to sexually assault and murder and the ransom note was left to intentionally direct suspicion towards the Ramseys. They should have never opened their home for Christmas or for whatever reason, especially with their children’s welfare being at possible risk.

      • tamaratattles

        There was no penetration and there was some mild bruising that could have happened from riding the new bicycles that she and Burke got for Christmas that day.

      • I would guess the time was closer to 45 minutes than 2 hours, and that’s not a terribly long time to figure out that you now have to kill a little girl you were planning on leaving with alive, and also how to do that leaving the least amount of evidence on you and at the scene when you probably don’t have a weapon other than a taser. I think the person thought the abduction was going to go perfectly and didn’t have a contingency plan when it didn’t. I also believe that once it went sideways, Jon Benet had to be killed, because she would have been able to identify the person.

    • Margarett

      This is a theory that seems plausible to me, cammierarie. It never occurred to me that someone could have come in while the family was gone.

      • tamaratattles

        There really is no spoiling an unsolved murder from 20 years ago. Also the trial watcheres here sort of have their own rules. As long as you are not presenting opinion as fact it’s all good and also we do not go by the don’t mention other sources rule here because we are all trying to pull information together. So we are more likely to cite a source if presenting inof not mentioned in the original post.

      • Margarett

        Thanks, Tamara. Twelve years of Catholic school will make a person a bit compulsive about rules.

        I am so happy that we’re discussing a trial. The fact that it’s twenty years old doesn’t make a lot of difference.

      • cammierari

        I actually never thought of it either, and I think I heard the theory on the Dateline episode. I forget who the man was, but that was his thought about the case. Since then I have been thinking it over and it just sounds right to me. I admit 100% that I never wanted it to be proven that it was the parents, because that part never made sense to me, so maybe I’m more inclined to think it sounds right?

    • Dee

      Burke looks uncomfortable to me. I wonder why he did this interview.

  16. Cyn

    I know the family and babysat the older children. No one in the family did this.

    • LGilmore

      Cyn, I have to wonder if you were paid to say that…

    • FarFromPerfekt

      If only life were that simple, what a wonderful world this would be.

    • Laura Gray

      Exactly. Anyone who knew this family even in the most peripheral way knows what nice people they were. What a nice family they were. No way they did this. The PC’s tunnel vision is just one of the many screw ups in the investigation

      • tamaratattles

        Nice people have been known to do terrible things to protect their child in the midst of unspeakably bad traumatic situations. It’s clear they were nice people. But something went terribly wrong in that house and there was no one else there.

      • Terri

        Sooo agree. How many times hv horrific crimes occurred, and the friends and neighbors always say how nice they were; they were so friendly. Nice people can snap. Nice people can do very un-nice things.

  17. I thought it had been proven Patsy did not write the ransom note. My theory has always been that an enemy of John Ramsey set this all up to make someone in the family look guilty.

    Dr, Phil is an ass exploiting this for ratings. And shame on Oprah for making money off Dr. Phil and assy Dr. Oz.

    • Agreed! I’d go so far as to say Dr Phil is an asshole in general. His CV is sketchy, his ex wife accused him of physical abuse, and he met Robyn while he was still married. If Oprah hadn’t brought him on her show, he would never have carved out this niche on TV by himself.

      • tamaratattles

        DR Phil married his high school sweetheart, at age 20. The marriage was eventually annulled. The marriage failed because of their age, and his cheating.

      • tamaratattles

        It is unwise to say a multimillionaire is a wife abuser on the Internet. This is why I continually ask you to stick to the topic at hand and not write about everything you think you know about things that are off the central topic.

      • Tamara, I am sorry for inserting that information. i was cautious not to accuse Dr. Phil only saying that his ex accused him. Nevertheless, I don’t know the particulars and I did go off course, I humbly apologize.

    • Tess

      Dr. Phil is a “gold-digger” even if it was just for ratings. What’s the difference? Let’s get on with something positive going on in this world. Swim with the dolphins! Buy someone a meal! Send a dollar to any charity that will make a difference in your life. Spend an hour helping in a food kitchen! Call an old friend! Let’s stop blaming and let’s start believing that there are some wonderful people in the world. We will probably never know exactly what happened to JBR. It was a sad thing of course, no doubt, but time to start afresh, I say!

  18. Janet

    From what I have read about this case, I allways thought it was an inside job, someone in the family. The family was prominant, and it was so tragic and unreal, the local police were in over their heads. The first time I heard the details in the ransom note I felt it was written by Patsy. The note was the world’s dumbest ransom note ever, it was not written by a criminal but by someone wanting to sound like a criminal. It claimed to be from some organization and specified wanting the exact dollar amount of John’s recent Christmas bonus. It also stated percentages like they would give for the chance of a cancer patients prognosis for survival. Who would stay around in a break in and write a note and one like that? And the coincidental things in the note were so bizarre. I dont watch Dr. Phil much because I’m at work, but this interview sounds fascinating and weird with the lack of expression from Burke. I dont think I want to watch, but if I were home I’d be tempted to watch. Unfortunatly, people get away with murder all the time. Some areas more than others.

    • The ransom note was almost three pages long. The police chief at the time said this was the longest kidnapping letter ever seen in any such case across the country. Most people come to the scene of the crime with a ransom note in hand and it contains a few demands with a drop off location and time to leave the money for the kidnapped victim. I don’t know that Patsy was guilty, but it seems she wrote the ransom note.

      One investigator stated that when handwriting tests were done to compare to the ransom note, John was cleared, but Patsy’s was inconclusive. Both parents were asked to copy the ransom note verbatim in front of a handwriting expert. It was thought to be quite strange that Patsy wrote out the words for $118,000 instead of the numerals. The expert thought she was going out of her way to make her letter long different than the ransom note.

      • Janet

        Hand writing analysis is rarely conclusive, and I tell you my handwriting varies. But, the weird long note was analysized by an expert, and he determined it was written by a southern woman that was a cancer patient due to some of the phrasing. It was also written as a ransom note, and there was no kidnapping. The whole thing is beyond crediability that it went down as an intruder doing it to me. I dont like to think parents would do this either and cover it up, but they do sometimes. Sometimes a parent or a sibling kills a family member. I could maybe believe it was an intruder if it wasn’t for that weird ransom letter. I’ve also read that detectives found the father’s behaviour bizarre and cold acting too like the son, and felt he would do ANYTHING for the wife. I remember he ran for office later on and I allways felt this family was FREAKY.

      • Janet

        I remember reading that too, that the investigater felt Patsy was trying to beat the test, so to speak, and purposely trying to write way diffently than her normal way. It was also determined that the note paper and pen used for the random note were from their house. I also read they didn’t seal the crime scene off and allowed the dad a ton of access or oppourtunity to remove things or tamper with the crime scene, due to not imagining that they might be guilty and the father being prominant in the community.

  19. ZenJen55

    I find it strange that Burke went downstairs after he was put to bed to play with a toy. Plus he used a flashlight. This was not revealed to the police. Things that make me go hmmm.
    I retract my statement about JonBenet having vaginitus. I must of forgot her pediatrician had excluded sexual abuse.

    • Erica

      Wait… it is strange that a kid gets out of bed, even if he is given a toy? Hell… my mom and dad still joke how I would sneak a flashlight and a book, or after my mom went to sleep I’d sneak out to watch Johnny Carson with my Dad. (Some of my first sentences – “Here’s Johnny!”) Totally normal for a little boy to sneak out of bed, flashlight or not on Christmas Eve of all nights.

  20. Erica

    I feel like this case will never be solved because of the fuck ups by the police. I can’t trust any of their accounts of what happened, or what Burke did, etc.

    Why? Because what officer in their right mind would give a father, when they suspect the parents right away, permission to search the house. I find it baffling and disgusting that Jon Ramsey would be considered a suspect because upon finding his daughter in the basement, picked her up and carried her upstairs (thereby disturbing the crime scene) What father would stop and think WAIT, CRIME SCENE when finding his daughter’s lifeless body? Any one of us untrained people would probably immediately scoop up such a young child into our arms to see if she was alive, and whisk her off to call paramedics, and we aren’t her parent.

    Then your spouse and your other child (who is on some sort of spectrum) is suspect? Of course you would stop talking to the authorities and the press.

    I’m not necessarily discounting that it was an inside job, but the evidence presented by those that think so is not convincing to me.

  21. Amy

    I find the statement of the Doctor excluding sexual abuse odd. I have four children, boys and a girl. We have had doctors in 3 different states and 5 different cities. My boys have always been examined below the waist. My daughter has never been. So in my experience of multiple pediatricians, they have never done an exam that would show signs of sexual abuse. I am not saying she was abused, just that the categorical denial of the Doctor is odd to me.

    • Amy, I have daughters, too. We have had pediatricians in different states. All my girls were examined below the waist-with a parent and/or a nurse present. Sexual Abuse is common & doctors are trained to look for it. Not to be rude, but there are plenty of crappy doctors out there.

  22. Blondesense

    As a person afflicted with a tendency to giggle when I am nervous, I felt bad for Burke during part 1. Now he just seems like a creepy, grinning idiot to me. I had somehow come to believe there was a stranger’s pubic hair on Jon Benet – maybe I am mixing it up with another case? I am sure if it were any other guest Dr Phil would have been more inquisitive in regards to Burke’s demeanour.he seems giddy almost.

  23. cheychey

    I really wanted to believe years ago that this was an accident gone very wrong inside the house. After the Dr Phil interview my thought have somewhat changed. Burke seemed nervous yet oddly almost proud like he was finally getting his 5 seconds of fame. His eyes would dart back and forth when difficult questions for him were asked like he was lying. I don’t think a young kid could do this alone but I do feel like the parents helped cover it up. It’s almost like he’s a sociopath and he is getting enjoyment from all the attention of the case. It’s just to implausible that someone came in the neighborhood totally undetected by anyone by vehicle or on foot broke into someone’s home walked around till they found a notepad, wrote a 3 page note, then walked upstairs found her carried her down to basement thru the house still nobody heard anything. Then hit her head and hung around for another 45 minutes to an hour to finish her off. I think they need to call in one of the police psychics that they use I find them interesting and would like to know their take on this.

  24. I lost my father at age 9, and KNEW my life changed. I can’t get past the distracting smirky smile throughout the entire interview. They are discussing a death and Burke seems emotionless and removed from the traumatic experience. If his demeanor is the result of some kind of medical condition, he should have never been allowed to do this interview.

  25. Reba

    Maybe we should pay more attention to the drugs Patsy was ingesting at the time of Jinbenets death.
    Ativan is known to cause violent behavior.

  26. If you read interviews with their housekeeper, and other little tidbits, I lean heavily towards the theory that Patsy (remember, she had just been through cancer treatment, likely with pain medication) lost her temper at JonBenet wetting the bed AGAIN, threw her/hit her with something too hard and panicked. I cannot decide if John was in on the staging or if Patsy herself did it. It is interesting to me that he was ready to take off on the afore planned trip that they were supposed to leave for that day. Other interesting information – parents stated they carried her in the house and put her to bed-at the time. Now John says Patsy went up and changed her clothes. Before, they told police she had been put to bed with her clothes on, a red turtleneck. There was a red garment soaking in a laundry sink when police arrived. Clotheshorse Patsy, who was always dressed to impress and never wore the same thing twice (according to the housekeeper) was still dressed in her clothes from the party the night before. I don’t think Burke had anything at all to do with it.

    • SLM

      But, again, my thoughts always go back to the large time gap between the serious head injury, which did NOT kill her and the later strangulation which DID. If this were a cover up by the parents because either Patsy or Jon assaulted her in a fit of rage and knocked her unconscious, why would they go so far as to actually horrifically murder her sometime later…even though she was still alive…and stage a weird ransom/kidnapping scene? They could have faked that she fell down the stairs or over a railing or was sleepwalking and called an ambulance. Even if JonBenet later said something about remembering getting the head injury from one of them, they likely would have assumed they could still evade authorities by claiming she was suffering from some sort of delusion caused by the concussion and backed up each other’s stories. Abusers lie and gaslight their victims and others routinely and are usually very confident they can get away with it, whether that happens or not.

      • Bugg

        Right, I believe if an accident occurred even during a fit of rage or if intentionally by Burke they would have sought medical treatment for her instead of finishing her off.

      • Forensic information determined the hard blow to the head would have eventually caused her death. While her death was not immediate, medical examiners determined she would have still died from the blow. It is disturbing that there was a huge gap of time between the blow to the head and the strangulation. Did the person responsible for killing her stay in the house hours and then decide to strangle Jon Benet realizing she was still alive?

      • SLM

        It’s just all so perplexing, Matzah. Whoever inflicted the head injury, by accident or not, would have known she was still alive after and WOULD NOT have known the injury WOULD prove fatal later (as the autopsy surmised). She was strangled while still alive (Although likely still unconscious) and not for a significant time after the head injury. I just can’t fit that together with either of the parents in it together or a unknown outside perpetrator. An intruder I Jared her so bad she was unconscious…but then stood over her for 45 minutes plus (or as much as 2 houra) IN A HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHERE THEY RISKED DETECTION EVERY SECOND before deciding to strangle her. Or, just as outlandish to suspect, one or both parents abused her violently enough to cause that head injury, then stood by doing nothing while she was unconscious (not knowing the head injury was bad enough to be fatal) and decided to coldly strangle her and stage a kidnapping??

    • Janet

      That would explain the lack of DNA. In fact I would think it would be more normal to find a parents DNA on a child when you’re living with them than nothing at all. I think they were more naieve back then about dometic violence, and that such a thing could happen in the family of well to do people. So, they gave them wide leeway and sympathy, didnt treat it profrssionaly as a crime scene, and when they later suspected them it was too late to undo the damage. It seems the people in charge lost their objective and were at odds with eachother. Sociopathy is very much an inherited trait besides the enviroment. The wholevfamily seems OFF.

  27. SLM

    And, again, I agree with TT that when you look at all the pieces of evidence and everything that happened in total, no theory makes complete sense or seems to fit. Take that undigested pineapple – why was everyone in the family allegedly so all fired adamant that she couldn’t possibly have eaten any and wasn’t given any? Why wouldn’t they just assume she got up and helped herself or the mom say maybe she put out some and forgot in all the trauma of the horror that followed? Why allegedly be SO combative and insistent other just wasn’t possible? And what perpetrator, whether there for an actual ransom plot or one trying to cover up a different crime with a fake one, spends the time and effort to write a 3 or four page manifesto about it? If you are trying to create false evidence or REALLY going after money for a kidnapping, wouldn’t a quick note demanding money for the child’s return with a proviso for details to follow be the quickest logical step?

  28. SamT

    In support of the intruder theory, I recall reading in a book that the Ramseys had given out multiple keys to their home to various support staff, but not only close ones. Apparently people who did odd jobs or contractors, etc had also been given keys, to the point that they could not recall everyone who had received one. This would make it pretty complicated because at that point somebody could have made copies, or a key could have been stolen by an acquaintance or friend of these people. This book was written by a private investigator I believe and not one who had been paid by the Ramseys. He was a former police officer I think and he supported the intruder theory. His explanation of what he thought had occurred that night was chilling if true. He surmised someone had come in and was hiding under a bed in the guest room which is how that person would know they had all gone to sleep. Also as I recall the parents bedrooms was a floor above the kids? And therefore even more distance between them and the basement. I personally have always leaned toward the intruder theory myself. My second choice is that Patsy became upset and it was an accident /cover up. But the reason I hesitate on that one is the strangling. It would take a cold person to accidentally kill their child then brutally strangle her to make it look like a murder. I’m sorry if I’m going on too much, for some reason this case has always fascinated me.

    • SLM

      I agree with you Sam in hesitating to fully embrace the idea that Jon or Patsy inflicted a head injury on JonBenet and then strangled her to cover it up. Especially in light of the fact that the head injury DID NOT KILL HER. If they inflicted it on her, they would have known she was still alive. They would have both needed to be stone cold sociopaths to stand there over her unconscious body for 45+ min plus KNOWING she was still alive and then decided to strangle her to kill her.

  29. jb44

    This may have already been mentioned before. If so, I apologize. In 2008, “touch DNA” technology cleared all of JonBenet’s family of her murder. The district attorney at the time, Mary Lacey, formally apologized to the Ramsey family. DNA tests conducted that year (2008) pointed to an “unknown male” as her killer.

    • Janet

      I felt that was a FAVOR putting that out there. It seems there wasnt much in the way of DNA evidence. From what I read you can have DNA left behind from the person who packaged or manufactured your clothes even. I also don’t think it’s expected that parents wouldn’t cooperate because they were suspected. I used to read alot of true crime books, and most parents will submit to all kinds of humiliation, to clear themselves as suspects, so police can then concentrate else where. Nothing thus far has satisfied me that anyone has been cleared definatly.

      • SLM

        I had the same thought about this DNA issue Janet. If the whole family was out at events all day, they could have all had any number of different DNA traces on them from a hundred people from hugging, eating from common dessert trays, sitting on other people’s furniture, etc. Also, if the parents put her to bed asleep or drowsy that night, attempted to change her clothes and then didn’t (as I believe they said) then wouldn’t there be DNA traces from them on her even from these innocent occurrences? So the 2008 thing suddenly says there’s no trace evidence from family but IS unidentified traces? Does that make complete sense either?

  30. lo

    Watched both Dr. Phil and the first 2 episodes of the ID channel special (?) on this.

    Here are my questions: The police/detectives on the scene said John was heard on the phone attempting to make flight arrangements on the day of the murder (maybe three hours after she was found). They never follow up on that. Where was he trying to go? They said it was when they heard him trying to make those arrangements that they turned most of their attention towards him and Patsy. Was he perhaps making arrangements to go to Atlanta at this time and I missed this fact?

    There was a broken basement window that John intimated was broken for at least a week prior to the murder. First of all, what kind of husband/father would NOT have an access point into a 7000 square foot house fixed immediately? Were there no security alarms? Or was it disarmed because of this breach? I really have to wonder about the common sense of these people if they knowingly allow their house to be unsecured.

    It also appears as though the Ramsey’s purposefully muddied the crime scene by inviting all sorts of folks over to the house when JonBenet had gone missing (but hadn’t been found yet). The police were stupid to allow this. The Ramsey’s also told their friends not to speak to police and if anyone did, the wrath of the Ramsey’s was quick and severe. What were they so afraid of?

    I find Burke to be very unsettling. I instinctively want to have compassion for him, but his permanent smirk makes it difficult. I think his life after his sister’s death was awful. I imagine it was horrific for him and he has never/will never recover. He appears to be doing whatever it takes just to survive his never ending nightmare.

    This case highlights how justice is different for those with money. Very sad.

  31. cheychey

    It was so long ago I don’t remember did Patsy or John submit to lie detector tests. I know they are not admissible in court but would be interested in knowing how they came out and even if Burke could pass one now although they say someone with no conscience can pass the test.

  32. LoriNYC

    I wonder why Burke would consider doing this interview. He is socially awkward and I’m shocked that no one in his family advised him against doing this. Burke didn’t do him or his family any favors with this interview.

  33. Bird

    By Burke admitting he was up that night playing with his toys as well as his answers in the interview with the psychologist, this makes an intruder all but impossible. It shrinks the timeline too much. Also, if you do away with most of the “cover up” idea it explains exactly how Burke would have killed her. It seems highly likely to me that some kind of “incest” was discovered and the parents (or parent) didn’t know how to deal with it or just wouldn’t accept it. The way he used “flaunt” when he talked about her pageants was also, I felt, very telling. This was a very disturbed young boy who acted out some kind of “fantasy” tying up Jonbenet on the tracks and as cheap complies he strangled her the 1st time with the garrotte. This is when he started the “sexual” part of the crime. When she came to she screamed and scared him he then hit her with (flashlight, bat, hammer…) and hide or went back to bed. Later he went back and maybe poked her to see if she was alive and then finished the strangulation. He then went back to bed and waited it out listening to every thing going on. Some time PR found the body and the cover up ensues. This makes the most sense to me. In fact, it’s the only way most of the evidence makes sense to me. (Sorry for rambling, spelling, grammar)

  34. There were books on aggressive sexual behaviour in children in the Ramsey’s library. Both John and Burke have the same nervous smile in interviews. I don’t think it means anything with what you’re all projecting.

    And the DNA on the underwear that was not of anyone in the family – people who make the underwear in the factories leave DNA on new underwear all the time. This was tested with other products/underwear that was “fresh” or newly purchased, and they found DNA of others.

    Source: Generation Why podcast

  35. karen A

    I think someone hid in the house during the “open house” thing. They hid in the house until they were confident enough to come out of hiding and kill Jonbenet. I don’t think Burke did it, like someone mentioned above, there is no way a 9 yr old could keep that secret for 20 yrs. I really think it was an intruder. I think Burke is the way he is due to what happened when he was just a boy. The family tried to become invisible and I doubt he had many social interactions afterwards. I’m sure if he had any friends they were no longer his friends.

  36. Janet

    Ok I watched the interview on YouTube and read Dr. Glass’s blog on it to get an opnion on the body language and facial expressions too. I’m fascinated with stuff about facial expressions, and she noticed what I noticed too. That Burke’s smiles were not nervous smiles but full on happy smiles that engadges the whole entire face and crinkles the eyes. Really weird. As for aspergers, I know a young adult with that,and who lost his adopted father a couple of years ago. I’ve been around him numerous times around that time and since, and he certainly never was like that, grinning and acting giddy about it. He doesn’t display alot of emotion but acts subdued and saddened about his father’s death. His biological father died a bit later too, and he does not display any sadness about him because he did not consider him a father, but he does not act giddy or happy about that either. He’s more robotic and isolates himself but otherwise doesn’t come across as having super bizarre affects way out of the ordinary.

    • Bird

      Burke is the key to all of this. An intruder is completely insane at this point. Between what we know as facts and his interview he is clearly holding back a lot of information. I could not make this case make sense until I got past my bias against him being capable of this. After that, the gruesome details of this murder all fit together.

  37. Sue B

    I’m not sure what happened to Jon Bonet but I don’t believe that her brother is involved. Although his affect is strange he strongly reminds me of my adult child who has Aspergers. Facial expressions and watching his posture, prior child clips etc. I truly believe that he has strong traits, to me that would totally explain why he wouldn’t have reacted like let, say my other child who is ‘normal’ My quirky child would have been to anxious to investigate the turmoil going on,
    JMO

    • tamaratattles

      I’m going to guess that your child with Aspergers does not grin like he has a fantastically amusing secret all the time. That is not an affect indicative of Aspergers. I have seen a LOT of footage of Burke from age nine to 29 and that expression is on his face every time. At his sisters funeral, walking down a street as an adult and during every frame of this interview. That is not a common presentation with Aspergers. In fact it is pretty much the opposite.

      • Sue B

        True, my daughter doesn’t smile quite the opposite but I was more listening, his awkwardness, fidgeting, his original reaction as events where happening. I guess I find it hard to believe that he would kill his baby sister

  38. Creampuff

    I think Burke is simply on the “spectrum.” In all photos of him, before and after the murder, he always has that smirk on his face. Strange, yes, but certainly not an indictment of murder.

  39. SLM

    I also think it’s entirely possible Burke committed this crime, although not in an organized way. What if he was troubled for awhile and the Ramseys covered it up, just like the Duggars covering up their oldest son’s sexually aggressive behavior and molestation of his own sisters for years and years. It doesn’t mean Burke was a full on molester, but maybe he was acting in aggressive or inappropriate ways towards his younger sister. Considering how focused the parents were on JonBenet, Burke could have been molested himself by someone else (besides either of his parents) without anyone noticing and was in turn acting out on JonBenet (I’m just speculating, just throwing some ideas around, all my own opinion, not to be taken as fact). If she also got up that night as he might have, and he lashed out for whatever reason at her and hit her in the head, this would explain the first injury. It would also fit with the delay – I can just see a troubled little boy then maybe waiting and watching her assuming she would “wake up” and he could convince or threaten her not to tell on him. Only he waits around for hours and she doesn’t wake up. And he starts to worry. He thinks she’s REALLY hurt and won’t come to without going to the hospital or before their parents discover her, and in a child’s mind he decides if he kills her, he can deny everything and go back to bed and she won’t be alive to tell the tale of what he did. Maybe he doesn’t even move her body after he strangles her, but leaves her right where she is (living, playroom, wherever they were) Only when the parents get up they IMMEDIATELY realize what he did and go into shock and panic and make a convoluted plan to cover it up. Move her body, open a window, write a weird, incoherent ransom letter, call authorities and tell Burke to stay in his room and say nothing. I don’t think it’s far fetched to think he could disassociate and hold that he had nothing to do with it from that day to this. Again, just floating theories.

    • Hey SLM! My gut instinct has been saying all of the above since the murder of this precious little girl. I do believe Burke killed her – just not sure if it was initially intentional or accidental??

      • SLM

        Hi FarFromPerkekt! I think there was a lot of dysfunctiom/tension/anger in that house prior to this from what I remember reading, but that could all be reading into different things by me. I think Burke was/is a troubled individual, and if the BDIT theory is the correct one, the whole thing may have started out with him hitting her in a moment of blind rage that night for some reason we don’t know and will never know…with no clear intention to kill her in that moment, but when he realized how bad the situation was, he decided to finish her off in a childlike horrific crazy logic that going ahead and killing her would somehow make it more plausible for him to deny what he did. A long time ago I saw I believe it was an episode of American Justice of a different crime/case where a 12 year old (I recall that was his age, details for this are hazy for me, but I remember the crime itself, so I’m just using this for a moment as part of my point) actually smashed a younger friend in the head with his baseball bat because she’d goes into his house for a second while his parents were out and he’d been forbidden to let anyone in. He then dragged her under his bed and stuffed things in front of her so no one would see. Only she wasn’t dead and died slowly for quite some time, he even said he heard her moaning but did nothing to help her. When he confessed later, he said he thought it better to kill his friend than have his parents find out he’d let her inside against their wishes because he feared “getting in trouble.” My point with mentioning this is that disturbed kids commit criminal acts sometimes for horrifyingly irrational reasons. Burke may have thought killing her would be somehow easier in the long run than letting her live to tell their parents how he injured her.

      • Janet

        On Dr. Glass’s blog there is a professional photo of Burke and Jon Bonet. They are sitting back to back and turned to face the camera. Burke has no smile on his face and looks like he wants her off his back. Jon Bonet smiles sweetly. The doctor stated her opnion of their body language is Jon Bonet is sweet and affectionate but Burke wants her to get off him.

  40. Christina

    Because Burke lied about never hitting his sister with the golf club during the interview with Dr. Phil, I wonder if he struck his sister and killed her. Then because the handwriting in the ransom letter was very similar to the mom’s I wonder if she wrote the ransom note to cover up her son intentionally or unintentionally killing the little girl. I suspect the dad in this is the one defending the mom and the son. There are too many things that make the mom and son look guilty even if they had nothing to do with the crime.

  41. Drew

    My theory is, (as burke said) he went downstairs after everyone else had gone to bed to play with the toy.
    I imagine he took the flashlight with him,as to not wake up his parents by turning on house lights.
    at some point,Jonbenet goes down stairs and sees him playing (maybe she heard him and wanted to join?)
    once burke sees her,his first thought probably is ‘jonbenet is going to tattle on me”
    he freaks out and hits her in the head with the flash light (and possibly stabs her with the train track?)…then the mother does all the cover up.

    side note: I might be reading too much into this,but the way he said something along the lines of “I HAD to go finish building the toy” seemed interesting to me.
    like he could have possibly suffered from ocd,thus his possible aggression at the thought of being tattled on and not being able to finish with the toy(s)?

    • tamaratattles

      My theory was very similar to yours. I believe he got a new train for Christmas, snuck downstairs to play with it, taking the flashlight and at some point stabbed at her with the train tracks, and clobbered her over the head. Patsy, who was not in bed yet, heard the commotion, got up, freaked out, hid the body and likely strangled her and staged the kidnapping sexual assault scene. She wrote the note, then alerted John. Then she called in the morning as soon as it would be a reasonable time for her to get up and make coffee. She never changed her clothes from the party.

      All the friends and family that say there is no way the family did it indicates they were a good, happy, decent family. A tragic accident occurred, they freaked out and made it worse. I don’t think that John knew as he was quick to offer handwriting samples and provided notepads containing both his and Patsy’s handwriting. There are way too many similarities to Patsy’s handwriting. I do believe she wrote the note. I also think that she actually is the one who strangled Jon Benet.

      • SLM

        Are we saying in this theory then that Patsy assumed JonBenet was dead after a scuffle with Burke and didn’t know when she tied the garotte that her daughter was still alive, so she thought she was covering up Burke’s murder, but not killing her herself? How advanced was Patsy’s cancer by this time? I ask because my late mother also died of ovarian cancer, and she developed some psychoses after the doctor said the cancer likely spread to her brain, but in minute form. Meaning, even if it couldn’t be seen, it was there and giving her paranoia, mood swings, some psychotic episodes, even though she was physically still functioning fairly normally. If something similar happened to Patsy and no one did anything about it or took note of it, I can see your theory happening, TT

      • Matzah60

        Tamara, I too believe she wrote the note. I think your theory is brilliant because it follows a sequential timeline that is more than plausible, explains why Patsy was still in her clothes from the prior evening, explains why Patsy wrote the note, and more importantly, why the strangulation occurred hours after the blow to Jon Benet’s head.

        It also explains Burke’s odd affect. Perhaps he had some social problems as a kid; perhaps very serious mental issues. I doubt this is the first time that people have commented on Burke’s off-putting smile and what appears to me as someone who is quite immature. I saw some nervous fidgeting, but I never saw him avert Dr. Phil’s eyes when speaking. There was no avoidance. Perhaps his odd affect is symptomatic of the trauma he went through or guilt about what happened to his sister at his hands, even if it was accidental.

        I have never heard of Burke ever being in trouble with the law, petty crimes, assaulting another person, etc. It seems his life has been free of any other trouble if indeed he was the person who caused his sister’s end. I think that some of the things Burke said along with some public comments made at the time of the crime that Patsy was privately a loose cannon. Maybe even a bit ‘psycho’ when things went amiss.

      • PeachyKeen

        I am old enough to remember all.. but I do agree with your TT.. think she made a choice to have one child protected. She knew should not have another..But the cover up was worst than what happened.. But that was ages ago.. Patsy’s dead.. Burke ?

      • Cat

        When he got to the part about sneaking out of bed to finish building the toy, I flashed to an episode of Criminal Minds (I THINK it was Criminal Minds), where a young boy is murdered. The body is found in a park, and the scene is obviously staged.

        The ending of the episode reveals the “facts”: The younger brother was accidentally killed when he disturbs his older brother in the basement, building a model. The younger brother accidentally breaks the toy, and the older brother flies into a rage, killing his brother.

        The parents discover the body, and panic. They do not want to lose both sons, so they get a friend, a detective, to move the body, and stage the scene. The parents are involved in helping to cover up the crime.

        Anyway, I know it was just TV…fiction. But that’s what I thought of during this interview.

        I wonder….?

      • j rose

        I saw that episode of Criminal Minds recently and yes it seemed very similar to this case. The brother who killed the younger sibling was labelled as some sort of sociopath and the parents covered up for the kid.

      • Jeanne

        They say those are definitely taser marks, not train track marks on JB. No taser was ever found in the house.
        Also didn’t anyone hear the investigator say the garrote was used so the person could strangle, then release. Strangle, then release. That is where the time gap is to me. He was torturing her. That’s saying a lot too….long way out for a cover-up. I honestly believe it was an intruder.

      • Cat

        I’ve heard it’s actually not that easy to strangle someone. And, I imagine it would be more difficult if the killer and victim were similar in size.

        Seems reasonable to me that a nine year old may have to attempt several tries at strangling a 6 year old. So, maybe it was not torture, just inexperience?

  42. Shay

    TT, I was just thinking… maybe Patsy knocked her out and left her for dead on the bathroom floor and went and wrote the ransom note. The paper was from her notebook and pen and notebook put back in the drawer. Perhaps she wanted John to go to the bank while she deposed of the body, or john planned to dispose of the body on his bank trip, etc. I think it’s possible JBR woke up and tried to hide from her mom… going down into the basement wine cellar– where she was later found and strangled. When she was missing, Patsy was frantically looking for her and JOHN had a flashlight, looking for JB– trying not to wake her son. When the son remembered this, they told him it was the police.

    • Christina

      Whatever happened that night, it had a tragic ending for a little girl. So sad.

    • SLM

      That’s an interesting theory, Shay – and I’ve never considerd the possibility of JonBenet coming to after the head injury. So that’s a thought to mull over. However, I still say, my take on it right this second is that even if Patsy caused the first injury, she had no way of knowing HOW bad it was or that it would have proved fatal eventually untreated even if JonBenet had not then been strangled later. I think if it WAS her, she would have gone to Jon for help OR would have fabricated some accident story/scene THEN went to him with it and they would have called an ambulance. They both would have no known she was seriously injured, but still alive. I can’t see them BOTH being psychopaths, and deciding to cover up her being knocked out with then a VOLITIONAL strangling of her.

      • IMO

        Is it possible they did not know she was still alive when they staged it? What if she was unconscious, breathing so shallow they did not detect it, thought she was already dead.
        What if they learnt only after the autopsy that she was still alive at that point?

        SLM, I would think it would have been nearly impossible for the mother to do all the cover up alone. IF she did it, he had to know and had to help to cover it up, they were united.
        You are right, none of the theories make (good) sense though.

      • tamaratattles

        I don’t think he knew until after the body was found.

      • SLM

        I know, IMO, no one explanation fits all the evidence at all. And the crap investigation by police on the scene and the weird behavior of the families members muddies the waters further. This morning I was thinking again about the garotte…I mean, WHY a garotte? If this is anyone in the house covering up for anyone else, why not a pillow, a jump rope, a clothesline? A garotte has to be MADE. And if it’s an intruder who fatally wounds JonBenet and now can’t for whatever reason successfully get her out of the house, the same question remains – there must have been a million things on hand to snuff that poor girl out with, but suddenly a pre-made garotte just happens to be handier and the weapon of choice. I just think if the parents (one or both) were made aware of Burke having attacked his sister and inflicted the head wound, even if she was still alive and they CHOSE that she should die to cover up the whole thing, then why not stage something simpler (as I wrote about here in other posts I made) why not a fall down any of the big staircases, including the basement ones? A staged sleepwalking accident where she goes over a hallway railing? If we are supposing either parent of being enough of a cold psychopath to strangle her slowly while she was still alive and stage a sexual assault and write the ransom note to cover up head trauma, then it’s not a stretch to think they could toss her down a set of stairs repeatedly in order to kill her and cover up what really happened. And I think another question to ask is why was the head wound not treated at all? In the scenario where one or both parents discover Burke or are alerted by Burke to a massive head wound he inflicted on his sister, wouldn’t their first instinct be to lift her, check her, get a towel, get ice, wash the wound…? Even is the wound looked severe, there was no way for anyone right then to know internally it was slowly proving fatal. If they knew she was still alive, the parents’ first move to “cover up,” what Burke did (especially if they’d previously been in denial about him being troubled or disturbed) would be to treat the head wound AS IF it wasn’t that bad and try to wake her. Either parent- alone or together. Just my opinion. That’s why I believe that whatever cover up happened, if one indeed occurred, happened after whoever it was had already assaulted and strangled her and she was irrefutablely dead…because only then was it absolutely necessary to have a maximum level cover up and it could not be made to look like an accident at that point. Again, just putting thoughts out there.

      • IMO

        SLM, yes, I was wondering about that too. Why such a sick cover up if it was the parents? If she was abused first, maybe a garrote fit their image of a heinous sex crime much better. A scene so bad, no one would believe they were able to do themselves. I cannot imagine how a parent could stomach even staging that, but it is possible.
        In my opinion, the blanket does not match the crime scene at all. Garrote and a blanket?

      • SLM

        I know, IMO, its like half the evidence fits one scenario and the other half supports a totally different crime, but taken altogether it adds up to nothing. It’s like if Patsy wrote that note, then she and /or Jon were involved somehow at some point…and if no one in the house wrote that note, that means an outside perpetrator – WITHOUT LEAVING EVIDENCE OR BEING DISCOVERED – searched for the pad of paper and pen that just happened to belong to her, and sat around penning a LONG ransom note they then left on those stairs DURING THE NIGHT (wouldn’t have left it earlier for fear of it being discovered before they got away). I just have to think if someone breaks in, the longer they stay the greater the likelihood of discovery, so why spend SO MUCH TIME on notes and slow killing methods INSIDE a house with three other individuals who could see you?

      • IMO

        I wonder how the handwriting tests were administered. Did they have to write with their other hands too, for example?

      • tamaratattles

        No the samples were provided by John immediately when asked. They had two note pads one was Patsy and one was Johns they were kept in the kitchen had had been used for quite some time and had extensive samples. The fact that JOHN was so quick to hand these over is part of the reason I don’t think John was involved in the staging or knew about it or suspected it until much later if at all.

  43. SLM

    I just think that if it was a cover up from within, it HAD to be after whoever it was both inflicted the head inury and strangled her to death. If she’d still been alive when this theoretical cover up began, I think the story/scenario concocted would have been totally different (as I wrote earlier, as in them claiming it was an accident where she fell in the tub or tripped down the stairs while aleepwaljing, etc) and they would have sought medical treatment for her.

  44. Anastasia_Beave

    I believe very bad things went on in that house for a very long time.
    I hope JonBenet is at peace….and away from her mother.

  45. Lovie

    Are Burke and his dad still close? I, too, am perplexed why anyone close to Burke would let him do this interview knowing his awkward behaviors would only raise more questions.

  46. Bird

    The note, cover up and how close the family stayed after this all points to Burke. I personally believe there was something sexual happening between he and Jonbenet and every weird thing after that falls into place. The parents felt guilty for not handling whatever situation was going on behind closed doors and they poured everything they had into the cover up and holding the family together. He (JR) wasn’t going to lose another child and she (PR) dove head first in to prescription meds.
    We don’t like to think about it, but what if Burke is just a killer? It is rare for a child to plan and execute a crime like this, but it does happen.

  47. Jennifer Bowman

    After 20 years it is weird that Burke would want to speak out now. His creepy smile and rehearsed answers are a little suspicious. I can understand being secluded all these years would make for a socially awkward appearance, but there is also a lack of emotion. I think Burke accidentally knocked JonBenet out when he hit her with the golf club. Not knowing what to do he went to his dad and they both tried to cover it up. The father would know how much his bonus was and took the paper out of his wife’s drawer. They couldn’t possibly tell the mother for fear of her “going psycho” on them since JonBenet was the favorite. Burke just played it off like he didn’t know what was going on and didn’t care.

    • tamaratattles

      The golf club incident was long before the Christmas Day murder. And Patsy was outside with them.

      PLEASE TRY TO STICK TO THE FACTS OF THIS CASE while speculating on who killed Jon Benet.

  48. Megsca67

    TT, I share your theory and have long thought that Burke did it and instead of losing both her children, Patsy covered it up.

  49. ZenJen55

    OK JonBenet was sexually abused according to the police. Also the housekeeper told the police that she caught Burke and JonBenet and Patsy claimed they was just playing Dr.
    I know this is against TT commenting rules but I will take being sent to the WLS to say WebSleuths is the best source of information on this case. Its a goldmine

  50. Burke-a-doodle

    I would recommend watching the A&E special that aired a week or so ago. Much more thorough, more evidence based and less biased by what the media circus portrayed at that time.

    • TiosBlankie

      Is it the same as the JonBenet: An American Murder Mystery multi-part series or is it something else? I have been wondering about the A&E and the Dateline specials. I have only watched the interviews with Burke on Dr.Phil this past week but was planning on watching the parts of the one I mentioned that I’ve found so far today and wasn’t sure where to find the others or if they were just the same documentary on a different channel. Do you remember exactly what they were called if they were not the same? I’ll try searching for them on the Internet in the meantime.

      • Terri

        And CBS has one starting tomorrow…

      • TiosBlankie

        Really? My tv is broken right now so I’ve been watching these online. Do you know what the CBS one is called or if it is a multi-part/single episode documentary? I’ll try to google this also and see if I can watch it on another tv in case it doesn’t come up online but do you happen to know what time it’s on? Thank you so much for letting me know! I just came across a second AMA, by James Kolar, and am reading some things about the case I had never heard of before. I don’t want to quote them here in case any were proven wrong that I don’t know of, but I also googled some books he recommended, one being I Know You Are Lying by Mark McClish, which has 8 cases in it including the Ramsey case and apparently “presents a detailed analysis of Ramsey statements made over the course of the investigation”. It sounds interesting. I need to start compiling a long list of books to read and things to watch. There is more and more to this than I thought I knew every second.

      • Terri

        It begins at 8:30, called “The Case of: Jon Benet.” It’s a two-parter.

      • Terri

        Oh, conclusion on Monday night…

      • TiosBlankie

        Thank you!

  51. Terri

    So many interesting comments. Mine is thus. If you believe the intruder theory and if you believe he/she hung around after the initial skull fracture before strangling the little girl, then why write a ransom note!!! For what purpose? It makes no sense. The only way the ransom note comes into play is if the scene was staged and meant to look as if it was a kidnapping. To me the ransom note completely dismisses the intruder theory. What kidnapper sits in a house and composes a three page ransom note after the child was killed. Actually, why a ransom note at all? Even if one of the Ramsey’s did it. They had to know the cops would eventually find the body. Of course, the cops were so inept in this case, that John has to do their work, completely contaminating the crime scene. Oy. RIP JB.

    • Shay

      I think Patsy wrote the ransom note. She planned to ditch the body when John went to the bank. But John sent a friend to the bank to get the money, told her to call 911, and she was fucked.
      The chief of Denver Police in his AMA pretty much says one or more of them are involved… and John and Patsy acted very distant– usually when something horrific first happens people stick together, hug and console one another, etc. Police never secured the crime scene, never interviewed them, and never separated them. They were not interviewed until 7 months later because they lawyered-up day 1. Burke never went back to school and even now works from home. They hid him for a reason. John hated Patsy for a reason, too.

      • SLM

        If this is the way it went down, Shay, then in this scenario I have to think Burke did ALL of what was inflicted on JonBenet and Patsy was the one to discover it or be informed by Burke. Maybe in shock she at first covered JonBenet (the blanket) when she saw her and spent some time considering whether to call authorities, wake Jon or cover it up and she ultimately went with the tissue paper thin ransom plot cover up.

      • TiosBlankie

        I know it’s been said they were “distant” but I’m just curious what he did to show he hated her? I thought accounts said he seemed to adore her and gave the impression that he would have done ANYTHING for her.

    • Margarett

      There are so many unanswered questions. If the kidnappers came in while the family was gone, they could have had time to find paper and written that novella.

      I’m just guessing, Terri. We’ll all probably continue doing so. I just can’t see this ever being solved.

  52. Deb

    Smiling cause he got-away with it!

  53. Terri

    Also, were forensics ever performed on the flashlight and the bat found outside the basement window. I think I heard that fibers matching the basement carpeting were found on the bat. How convenient it was right there, right by the grate. Wonder if John Ramsey had to point that out to the police as well. My bad. And that bowl of pineapple? Another stage to reinforce the intruder theory? If staged didn’t Patsy realize her fingerprints would be on it? And it it wasn’t staged, why’d she deny giving JB the pineapple. This is so confusing.

    • mamamia

      I was wondering about forensics on the flashlight, also. TT- do you know if they found anything on the flashlight? My fingerprints are on all the dishes in our house as I’m the only person that seems to know how to unload the dishwasher! Could the bowl have been touched by Patsy when she was putting it away from the dishwasher? Another question, Burke stated that he liked to drink iced tea (which was found next to the pineapple bowl with his fingerprints) and that he drank it around Christmas time. Isn’t that a strange comment? I’m starting to suspect Burke after reading your synopsis and considering his strange, perpetually smiling face.

  54. The three-part show that’s been airing on Discovery ID (“JonBenet: An American Murder”) has surprised me with some details that I’ve never heard before, namely three men in the area who could have possibly fit in with the intruder theory. Two of them had stun guns that matched the marks on her body. One even had a JonBenet shrine in his house. One had a pair of HiTech boots (or whatever they were called), consistent with the footprint that investigator Lou Smit found AND a stun gun. Ultimately, the DNA didn’t match though, I believe. I’ve watched so many JonBenet anniversary shows this week, they’re all getting muddled in my head. :/

    I suppose an intruder could have come in through the basement grate/window while they were at the party; hid in JonBenet’s room; waited until they were all asleep; knocked her out with something; carried her down to the basement, where the “mystery” suitcase was waiting; tied her up to eventually stuff her in there; then took 45 minutes to write the longest ransom note in history; realized she was regaining consciousness; realized it would be impossible to drag a conscious, fighting child back out the basement window; grabbed the paintbrush to make the garrote; strangled her and fled. Once I believed there was no way that no one could have heard anything, but the show on ID had a model of the house and, DAMN, it’s HUGE. The exterior shots circulating in the press make it look cozy, but it really is quite the mansion.

    That’s the only way I can imagine the intruder theory possibly working. I’ll admit I always thought the Ramseys had something to do with it. Now I’m not sure. I go back and forth. The Discovery ID show has been one of the most comprehensive I’ve seen. (They’re airing it again in full on Sunday, BTW.)

    As for Burke, ugh, I don’t know. He even looks kind of giddy in the flashback shots of the funeral. It’s unsettling. I think going on Dr. Phil was a huge mistake, as the whole thing was uncomfortable as hell and didn’t help him at all in regards to dissuading the people in the “Burke did it” camp. Socially awkward, nervous or whatever, someone should have at least talked to him about not grinning like a creepy maniac during the whole thing. I’m sure he’s all kinds of messed up as it is for growing up with parents who seemed to have “Perfect Family Syndrome.” I don’t want to be one of the people trolling him in this respect, but if anything, I wish Dr. Phil would have asked him “What’s amusing about this question?” at least once during that interview. When talking about the horrific death of a little girl, even if she was a complete STRANGER, no one would smile. If he really is so socially awkward that he doesn’t have normal behavioral reactions, as Dr. Phil has been stating in recent interviews, then shame on Dr. Phil for exploiting him and throwing him to the sharks anyway, just for ratings.

    I just wrote a book. Sorry. :)

  55. TT, I completely concur with your theory on the MO in the demise of this precious child, albeit with some caveats. I wonder if Patsy allowed time to elapse (45 minutes to two hours) after the blow to the head to assess the situation and the extent of JonBenet’s injuries. She determined that JonBenet was critically injured (she would have known from her body’s warmth that JonBenet was still alive even if she couldn’t detect a faint, irregular heartbeat) and either going to perish or be left with a chronic, debilitating injury (the drooping eye that Burke so oddly mentioned could very well indicate a severe, stroke-like condition). Could Patsy then have agonizingly decided to end JonBenet’s misery and the subsequent shame to the family — as well as the possibility of Burke being held responsible — through the act of faux sexual strangulation? Patsy seemed to be very socially aware of position, prestige, of physical beauty and material appearances as her lifestyle and participation in pageantry suggests. And, (as some have mentioned), was her illness and her medications such that she didn’t think rationally in regards to calling an ambulance rather than the actions she chose? Some ultra-religious and mentally/emotionally disturbed individuals have been known to send their kids to Jesus in an act of convoluted mercy. In so doing, she may have, in her mind, given life to Burke, her only remaining natural child and preserved the status of her family, as well. Whatever her/their choices, I feel she awakened John and had his assistance with the staging of the crime scene. I seem to remember reading quite some time ago that John would have known how to tie the knots that were required of the garrote; I don’t recall, however, if it was from the military, scouts or sailing, etc. I would have no clue how to construct such an instrument of human destruction without researching online. Even then, It must be difficult, especially for a woman who had no experience with specialty-knots and was under stress. I wonder too, if LE absconded with the Ramsey’s hard drive from their PC to check their google history. In any event, I believe they were all in it together in one form or another: Burke initiating the injuries to her head and cheek; Patsy writing the ransom note and perhaps originating the crime scene management plan; and John, in addition to making the garrote, may have gotten-rid-of the duct tape roll, paper, rope and whatever else they needed to make vanish from their nefarious acts when he disappeared to get the mail or before LE even arrived on the scene. As for keeping a secret, it not only can be done, but was done, from 20 years ago until today — and into infinity — for all three of the Ramsey’s that survived the night of December 26, 1996. This post turned out to be longer than I had intended. Sorry. C’est tres facile to be overcome by the mystery surrounding such an unthinkable crime to such an innocent victim.

    • tamaratattles

      Google didn’t exist in 1996. Nor was everyone and their grandmother on the Internet. Just us nerds. So the police would not have checked computers nor would Patsy been able to google the info.

      FYI Burke Ramsey was in the Boy Scouts of America from as early as 1993 according to the Ramsey’s book “Death of Innocence” (HB) page 97.

      • TiosBlankie

        How informative did you find the book considering it was written by the Ramsey’s themselves? That is one they actually had in my library.

  56. I think it’s this way with the ransom letter. I’m leaning towards inside family but–well. I think the most logical thing would have been no ransom letter because in the type of case of a psychopath/pedophile, they wouldn’t leave a note. Money would not be the goal. I think they decided to call the police but then realized something. If you notice your daughter missing, you’d search the entire house. You’d think she had been up playing and maybe opened the basement door and fell down the stairs in the dark. Maybe the basement is the last place you’d look, but you’d look through the entire house. If PR looked in Burke’s room, she would have looked over the entire house along with her husband. If you were trying to cover yourself, you’d realize the only way the authorities would believe you haven’t discovered your daughter’s body is if there was some compelling reason to think she was completely out of the house. A broken window, which they didn’t do, or a ransom note. Something that would stop you from finding the body first. And it was Christmas. That was also the problem. They didn’t have the boldness to take the body away from the house. And they couldn’t say they thought the child was sleeping in, or they slept in, because in the morning, there would have been presents. Most children would be up and most families–the one they were trying to be–would be up.

    The accident (if it was one) happened in a way that made it impossible to hide well. That is why the ransom note was so bizarre. They didn’t have time to think it through.

    • SLM

      She was discovered the 26th of December @JessicaS, so it was the day after Christmas.

    • Terri

      We’re they not all getting up early on the 26th to catch a flight to Michigan? And why leave the note in the back stairway and not, say, on the kitchen counter. And why does JB’s headstone hv Dec 25 as date she died. Can I HAVE any more questions!!

      • SLM

        I can’t recall about the flight that day, Terri, but I do seem to remember that John was set to take a business trip eight around thwn. I seem to remember police being a bit taken aback that he seemed concerned about still making that trip in light of what was happening (that’s my hazy memory of that detail, maybe someone else recalls that part more accurately?) I think the window of when JonBenet died was sometime between very late on the 25th and very early on the 26th, so my guess is family just chose one nor the other time for the headstone. Unless one or more of them ACTUALLY knee it happened before midnight on the 25th and it was some remorse showing through in using the date they knew to be true.

      • SLM

        I apologize TT to you and eveyone for my typos. I tried downloading a different touch keyboard and I think it’s actually worse than one I was using before. I’m going to switch back to my old one and set my autocorrect back on high. Damn my fat fingers with touch technology!

    • tamaratattles

      SLM, you are correct.

      And yet, when John ordered the tombstone, he put the date of death as December 25th…some say because he knew that is when she died. Just another weird thing.

      • SLM

        I wondered that, too, when I lean towards theories of the family did it kind…did John insist on the 25th because by then he’d gotten Patsy to tell him what happened when he ordered it so he knew the correct date, or because he helped with the cover up and knew that way. Or did he just pick that day because he had two choices and had to go with one and I’m reading too much into it. It’s all something that often gets more confusing the more you look at it.

      • mamamia

        The coroner’s report online has the date of death as 12/26.

  57. Also there’s another point, the broken window in the basement. If 1) the intruder had a key (a weird thing for a family to do anyway, handing out so many keys), they wouldn’t break the window. They would leave. I heard that JR hated that his basement had flooded one time, why would he leave a broken window unattended for a week? I think it was broken that night but in a last minute attempt to go with the kidnapper theory. It would have to be a window the family didn’t immediately ‘see’, either, to continue with the ‘didn’t find the body until later’ idea.

    • Terri

      Some great comments above. May I add to the mix? Why were police so adamant that an intruder could NOT hv fit through the basement window when JR himself admitted doing just that when he got locked out? He’s not a small man.

  58. SLM

    Has anyone read the ransom note? It’s bizarre. The wording is weird whether it’s Patsy or John trying to make a false ransom note, a potential kidnapper-predator or even a real group genuinely having made it for a real ransom plot. And wasn’t there even a “rough draft” of the note found elsewhere in the home? I thought I recalled that being the case. And how many people knew the amount of John’s work bonus (which is amount “ransomers” were asking for in the not)? And why ask for JUST that amount? If this were a real kidnapping for money, or even a child-predator kidnapping by an outside intruder who wanted to cover their tracks, why not ask for $500,000 or $1 million, etc. And the argument that they wouldn’t have that much isn’t sound – look at numerous cases of kidnapping for ransom and often the perpetrators ask for exorbitant sums well beyond what the person they are targeting would have available. Even if this is Patsy writing this as part of a staging effort, the wording, the amount, everything, seems so convoluted and strange. The first time I read it, the first half almost sounds stilted like someone foreign not used to writing out English, then the second part sounds like it’s lifted from a bad gangster movie from the 50s and the sentence structure is much more natural. I just have to think there are numerous crucial pieces to this that either no one is seeing or that were lost/fumbled/overlooked/covered up in all this and that’s why looking at all this makes no cohesive sense.

  59. Terri

    My father died on 12/26. I never gave it a thought to change it to 12/25. The only thing I can possibly consider that isn’t nefarious is police said she had been dead for many hours, pushing the date to 12/25.

  60. Trish

    As a mother, once someone comes into your house and takes one of your children, wouldn’t you grab the remaining kids and keep them close to you? I should preface this by saying I have never had this horrible experience but it seems like my instinct would be to protect and not let them out of my sight. Particularly in the house where someone broke in.

    • TiosBlankie

      I also found this part strange. Them saying “well we knew where he was and that he was alright”. Wouldn’t they also have known where JB was before she was taken, if she was? How could them knowing a child was safe one moment and her being gone the next leave them feeling safe just “knowing” that Burke was upstairs unless they knew he was in no danger? I don’t know. It seems strange to me.

      • Terri

        Really strange. And how can your child be supposedly taken and you not explore every single friggin inch of your home to make sure she, or the kidnapper, aren’t still in the home!!! Especially, since JR knew the window in basement was broken??? Funny how when asked to search for anything “unusual”, JR hightailed it down to that tiny room in the basement. It can’t be proved, I’m aware, but I don’t think anything can convince me that something bizarro didn’t happen in that house, so many years ago, and a cover up ensued. I believe someone mentioned above about PR not wishing to lose her place in Boulder society and her lifestyle…perhaps that was of more importance to her than facing what had happened. I don’t know. I do know that sometimes the simplest explanation turns out to be correct.

      • TiosBlankie

        Before I knew about Burke I thought Patsy would have confessed had she done it on her deathbed. If the covering up story is true I can see why she wouldn’t if she knew or did anything. I wonder if any of them will ever issue a statement if they are dying or coming to the end of their lives, whether it is to reconfirm their innocence or to confess to something. If it truly was an accident that they covered up I would think they would have it on their consciences. Even if one of them finally did confess to knowing the true events I have a feeling people dead-set on believing other theories could still find a way to not believe what was said, and that there will always be opposing views on what really happened.

      • Terri

        I’m thinking if PR did hv a deathbed confession, it would hv been between her and her minister or Priest, and that’s privileged, no? I seem to recall a rumor that OJ confessed to Rosey Grier, and he never said a word. If PR was covering for BR, she prolly took that to her grave. It would seem that with the technology we have that wasn’t there 20 years ago, that darn 911 tape cold be enhanced. One thing that hasn’t changed is the testimony of the 911 operator as to what she heard.

      • TiosBlankie

        I didn’t think about the minister/Priest confession, I agree with both things you said. I guess just because so much of what they’ve said and done has been made public I was just wrongly assuming a confession would be too. I just think, for example, if Burke were the last one alive and confessed to doing it all on his own, there would still be people out there who would never believe it and believe he said it out of guilt to clear his parents’ names for covering it up. Or if he confessed to knowing one of them did it once they were both dead people would say it was because no one was left to tell their side of what he was confessing to. I truly don’t know what to believe but I do think some people have been stuck in one opinion for maybe the entire 20 years this case has existed and nothing anyone said would ever change everyone’s minds. I tried to put myself on the hold list for some books at the library just now nc unfortunately the one people have mentioned a lot, Foreign Faction, isn’t even in our libraries. I found 3-4 but two were written by the parent(s), and I’m not sure if I want those to be the FIRST ones I read.

      • Terri

        I really enjoyed “My Sister, My Love” by one of my fav authors, Joyce Carol Oates. It’s fiction from the “Burke” perspective; but what the heck, the whole thing seems like fiction. I like your narrative on Burke wanting to put his train together and came downstairs with the flashlight and perhaps JB followed him. He tried giving her pineapple and ice tea and maybe she kept bugging him. . .

        Wonder how close he is with his father.

      • TiosBlankie

        I wonder how close they are as well. They kept splicing together the interviews on Dr.Phil but never addressed this. Did he perhaps feel safe coming on Dr.Phil for the interview since that’s where his father had given his “last interview” (did it really end up being his last?), or did his father advise him to speak there over anywhere else? Since I didn’t see the interview minus what was edited into Burke’s, I don’t know how the interview went for John overall or what the public reaction was. If this was one time he felt the media hadn’t portrayed him badly or unfairly, maybe that is why Burke went to Dr.Phil as well? Does anyone know of any agreements made that could have made Burke more comfortable speaking to him without a lawyer present, or was it just a choice? Would Dr.Phil making any kind of agreement with him beforehand about the editing or his standing by him after the interview (like the random episode he did essentially defending Burke) be illegal? These are just questions. If questions about the things I don’t have a clue about aren’t allowed I sincerely apologize; I don’t want to waste anyone’s time or break posting rules, I just want to make sure I don’t have these questions in the back of my mind when trying to decide how I feel about this interview. I am torn between several opinions when it comes to the interview footage of Burke and whether the reason given is why he truly chose to do the interview. I guess I just wondered if only one interview after 20 years, why Dr.Phil?

      • TiosBlankie

        One more thing I just thought of – if they had read a ransom note and were running around the house thinking JonBenet might still be there, might they not have also thought the kidnapper could still be there? Why then were they searching the house unarmed/unprotected in any way if they thought it was possible that they might find JonBenet along with a possibly armed kidnapper who could have hurt them OR their daughter upon being found?

      • Terri

        Exactly!! Just another “makes no sense” moment.

      • TiosBlankie

        Yes, there are so many of those in this case. It’s hard not to speculate every which way about the things that don’t make sense when I can’t even say for sure if any of these things would go through my head if my child was taken or if I would run around doing things that later wouldn’t make sense either just in the panic of it all.

  61. TiosBlankie

    It has been stated that Patsy was abusing prescription pills such as Ativan. Did this start before or after the murder? The father and brother both commented that it could not be her handwriting on the note because it was too messy but too much Ativan can cause loss of coordination, blurry vision, confusion among other things and this could have possibly led to her handwriting being “messier” than usual. Just a thought. I haven’t read the ransom note in awhile but some above mentioned it as almost sounding like English was not the person’s first language to I believe the sentence structure becoming more natural. Is it possible that Patsy had taken Ativan and became more coherent as time passed (and as she wrote the note) while it wore off? Abusing this drug in my experience can also lead to rambling which could also explain the note being 2.5 pages long. I don’t know what exactly I think happened or who I think did this, but these are some questions/theories that make sense to me if Patsy was abusing Ativan and wrote the note.

    • Shay

      Tios, her handwriting looks like it was written with her non-dominant hand. Lots of weird stuff like changing the letter A from regular lowercase to typewriter style. Then she went back and added a hook to the previous As. I saw handwriting analysis comparing her writing to the ransom note and the evolution of the lettering, words, grammar as the note progressed. Very interesting.
      I found it odd that when asked to reproduce $118,000 she wrote the numbers out in words. Like she was trying to not have to submit that sample. I think Patsy wrote the note. All 3 of them are more involved than they admit.

      • TiosBlankie

        Yes I remember reading about the changing of the a’s and the writing out of the sum of money and it’s all very strange. I honestly don’t know what I believe in all of this. Murder cases usually disturb me too much to follow in depth but I was 7 years old at the time it happened and still remember this being all over the news stands/magazines while standing in line at the supermarkets, etc. So it really stuck with me, but I don’t have any opinions of the case from when it happened as I was so young and all the details I know were learned much later and after they had already been skewed one way or another which makes it harder to figure out what to believe. The only thing I can actually theorize about is the bringing up of the prescription pill abuse as I have dealt with it in the past, specifically starting with Ativan, and personally have experience with the effect these types of pills (and others) can have on things as simple as writing. While it may not have changed what her writing looked like (I actually just saw the left hand sample before reading this comment), I wonder what others think about how it could have affected her in the other ways I mentioned (sentence structure changing as her thoughts became more coherent, the rambling length of the note, etc.)? IF she did write the letter. This is the first time I’ve actually thought about this aspect of it as I didn’t know about the prescription pull abuse until recently so I’m sorry if it isn’t making sense. I read on another blog something about the words “and hence” being used in both the ransom note and their Christmas card. I would really like to read the books people have been mentioning to find out more in depth about this than what I do know. I did read the AMA that TT also mentioned and although it wouldn’t load all comments for me, I would recommend anyone interested in this case to read it because it was very informative without him directly stating who he thinks did it, although he did make some statements along the lines of not believing the intruder theory, but that it could be possible. I am inclined to believe that he tried to give as many facts and as much of an unbiased opinion as he could, having been so deeply involved in it, and definitely don’t think he did it for “fame” and did it more to get information out there as he 1) did it on Reddit, for free 2) wouldn’t answer certain questions that were too specific when it came to incriminating someone as he stated he did not KNOW who did it and for people not to read between the lines and assume he knew more than he did (although he must have a personal opinion), and 3) said that if he ever wrote a book it wouldn’t be about the murder but about his life and this case would only be a part of it. Sorry that was so long. I just would love to hear more opinions on the AMA as well and how others felt about it (and be able to give opinions on the many books out there…I’m not sure which I should start with but would like to check if my local library has any of them). Have you read it? If so, what did you think?

      • TiosBlankie

        I am so sorry, that probably should have been several separate comments instead of one.

  62. SLM

    My husband and I were talking about this case this morning again. What we were discussing is that no matter which way you look at it, the solution to this – the actual scenario – is almost beyond rational comprehension. Either a person so clever, cold, bold and diabolical entered the house undetected and REMAINED THERE for hours and hours and hours committing this horrible crime without leaving a solid trace of themselves and departed unseen and unheard by not only the occupants of the house, but the entire neighborhood…after pausing to explicitly write two drafts of a rambling ransom note for no rational reason (since her body was still there and they had to think very quickly crime for money would be ruled out) or we have to believe one of her three family members committed the crime and was aided and abetted after the fact by a cover up from within. Both of these options are so outlandish they almost defy possibility, but one of them had to occur. I will say again, though, that if this is PATSY covering for Burke, in my own opinion right of this moment, I think she had to have become involved AFTER JonBenet was dead already from the strangulation. Just the way I see it, if she comes upon the scene after the head injury alone has been inflicted, then her actions would have been different – she had no way of knowing the internal injury was as bad as it was, and I think her first thing would have been to treat it assuming JB would come out of it and she could think what to do then (lie to Jon, say it was an accident, play it off as a minor scuffle between sibs she already dealt with, order JB to say nothing etc). And the fact is, JB didn’t die of the head wound (although it would have proved fatal untreated anyway). So even if Patsy is waiting it out the whole 2 hours or so and starting to think this injury allegedly inflicted by Burke is much worse than she hoped, JB is STILL ALIVE. I think she would have called an ambulance. Or if she was absolutely in some psychotic state and decided it would be easier to end it than to seek treatment and answer questions, why not (as I stated many times in other posts) stage an accident? There’s already a head injury. If JB is already somewhere in that basement, it would have been straightforward (no matter how chilling the actions) to stage it as a fall down the stairs not discovered until morning. The only reason in my mind if all the above is true to try and make some kidnapping plot is that whoever has done this has already done something (like the strangulation) that cannot possibly be covered as an unfortunate accident.

  63. Cat

    My question is: IF eventually it comes out that Burke was the killer, what legal action would be taken? He was a 9 year old kid back then. He is now an adult. What would be the legal course of action, if any?

  64. TiosBlankie

    TT, the AMA with the Denver Chief Police you were referring to is a great read in my opinion. I only just found out while looking for the book Foreign Faction that the author James Kolar also did an AMA. I haven’t read it yet and was wondering if you had? If there’s a specific reason this one wasn’t mentioned I apologize.

    • SLM

      TT, do you know any info on JonBenet’s older half siblings, John’s children from his first marriage? I’d completely forgotten about them until a friend mentioned the fact when we were talking about this case today. I thought one of them passed away? Were they suspects?

  65. Ginger

    I think someone in the Ramsey house did it. They are fortunate to have been wealthy and influential coupled by the initial botch job by the police.

  66. TiosBlankie

    After reading all day about this case there are way too many things that are suspicious about John for me to think he is somehow the only innocent one in this or one who didn’t know until he “found” the body.

  67. DJ

    Did anyone else think that the shape of the skull fracture looked like the handle end of the baseball bat (directly below the grip)? I am just curious if that end of the bat was tested for DNA as well?

  68. cdadogs10

    Watched the first part of JonBenet documentary last night (final tonight). I cannot help but believe perhaps the whole FAMILY; father, mother, yes, maybe Burke at 9 yrs old, were in on her death. Saw how a child Burke’s age demonstrated how he could have killed with a bat. SO SAD. Cannot the father be convicted? It seems obvious….

  69. Terri

    Just watching CBS special right now. The slowing and finessing of the 911 tape is chilling. PR saying, “What did you do?” JP saying, “We’re not talking to you.” And then, presumably BR saying, “What did you find?” Back to watching. Part 2 tonite at 9.

  70. Terri

    Wow. Never heard the story of the 6-year-old two blocks from the Ramsey’s who was sexually assaulted by a “Ninja.”

    • tamaratattles

      Neither has anyone else. and is was “a few blocks” . Three were a lot of incorrect news reports floating around and that one sounded made up by someone. like the mother.I’ve been trying to find other reports of this but nothing so far. So I have enlisted some help.

  71. BBsimmons

    I have watched numerous forensic child interviews. Burke’s non emotional responses screams that he has some psychological issues. I would bet he killed his sister in a fit of rage or out of jealously. His interview with Dr Phil still shows a non emotional person. When asked if he killed her he says look at the evidence or lack there of. Who answers a yes or no question that way? That guy will kill again if he hasn’t already done so and just has not been caught yet.

  72. Terri

    No comments on the great two- parter on CBS? To me, it was well done, well investigated and confirms, for ME, that BR killed his sister and the parents covered it up. Hope others besides me watched it.

  73. Tracey Dorsey

    According to the documentary on CBS (very well done), JonBenet was brain dead from the blow to the head. She was not killed by being strangled. I think their theory has a lot of validity. Burke is beyond odd, most like he was always strange. Many of the professionals on the show indicated that the “DNA findings” are insignificant. I had my doubts before about an intruder, but after seeing the show on CBS, I am convinced someone in the house killed JonBenet. I think Burke did it!

    • tamaratattles

      The CBS expert, Spitz is a raving lunatic whose single handedl caused me not to watch the rest of the show. In EVERY INSTANCE of these cases the autopsy by the medical examiner, not may the level experience, is ALWAYS the best information about the body.

      The ME ruled that death was by strangulation and he explains why based on the body he examined.

  74. Bec

    Didnt the ransome note clearly state if police was contacted they would kill or behead her?? As a parent, i would never risk her life. I would gladly hand over the money (a small amount at that for this family). But supposedly 911 was called immediately with no further thought. At best, i would have been requesting complete secrecy with law enforcement since the threat to kill her if i contacted them…..THAT BOTHERS ME ALOT..

  75. Bec

    Didnt the ransome note clearly state if police was contacted they would kill or behead her?? As a parent, i would never risk her life. I would gladly hand over the money (a small amount at that for this family). But supposedly 911 was called immediately with no further thought. At best, i would have been requesting complete secrecy with law enforcement since the threat to kill her if i contacted them…..THAT BOTHERS ME ALOT..

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