Sidebar: Any Interest in Talking About The Lovelace Murder Trial?

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It’s been a long time since we have had a sidebar. Someone pointed out this interesting case going on in Quincy, Illinois. In 2006, Curtis and Cory Lovelace were hometown heroes of sorts. Curtis was a high school and college track star who married his college sweetheart, Cory and together they had four kids.  She was a stay at home mom and he was an attorney. They were in a way considered pillars of the community.

Then, on Valentine’s Day of 2006, Curtis says that Cory had some flue like symptoms and he put her back to bed before taking the three oldest kids to school. Curtis claims he found his wife dead in her bed after he returned home. He was arrested eight years later in 2014 and charged with first degree murder. The trial is currently underway. There was no one saying that during that eight years they believed Curtis killed his wife.

The timeline  below shows the sequence of events on that day. It comes from police reports by Quincy police officer Doug VanderMaiden and testimony given by Detective Jeff Baird at a corner’s inquest into Lovelace’s death as reported by WGEM.

6:00 a.m. In testimony given by Dustin Strothoff, who lived in the Lovelace’s neighborhood at the time of Cory’s death, he said he  took his dog on a walk every morning before 6 a.m. He remembers walking his dog on the morning of Feb. 14, 2006. He said he saw a light on in the upstairs bedroom at the Lovelace house and saw what he assumed to be a man pacing back and forth briskly for the short time that Strothoff stopped to watch to was going on. Strothoff didn’t come forward with that information until after Lovelace’s 2014 arrest.

 

Photo/Phil Carlson

Photo/Phil Carlson

 

8:15 a.m.: Curtis Lovelace takes three of the couple’s four children to school. Lovelace tells police this is the last time he saw his wife alive and that it was the last time he spoke with her.

So he either left the four year old with his dead wife, or his ill wife who was sick in bed. Why not take the four year old with him? Perhaps that kid was still sleeping? Curtis will later claim that all three kids saw their mother alive when they left.

Curtis’s oldest child, a daughter, Lyndsay,now 22 says she can’t be 100% sure she saw her mother alive before school that day. Both sons, now teenagers testified they did see their mother alive before school.

Cory’s mother, Marty Didriksen testified about the strained relationship between Curtis Lovelace and his oldest child, Lyndsay, after Cory Lovelace’s death. Lyndsay Lovelace eventually moved into the Didriksen house during her freshman year of high school. She has been estranged from Curtis Lovelace since then. In the summer of 2014, Didriksen said Curtis Lovelace got into a verbal dispute with his daughter and Didriksen, according to Didriksen. Didriksen said Lovelace lashed out at his daughter verbally and was eventually told to leave the back porch of Didriksen’s house by his daughter.

Didriksen said she hasn’t been allowed to see her three grandsons for more than two years.

8:40 a.m.: Curtis Lovelace returns home. He said he worked on his computer in the family’s kitchen.

No mention of him checking on the wife or the four year old. Just straight to work. In court last week, the four year old, now 14 testified “He remembered getting up, going over to the side of the bed that Cory was on, yelling her name and trying to poke her awake. He then remembered going to sit on the stairs and told his dad that he couldn’t wake up his mom. Larson didn’t remember what his dad did after that.” [Source]

So was the kid waiting on the stairs when Curtis came home? Or did this happen while Curtis was working in the kitchen.

9:05 a.m.: Curtis Lovelace walks upstairs to couple’s bedroom. He said he saw wife’s eyes were partially opened, and she was not moving.

9:10 a.m.: Baird said Lovelace takes couple’s youngest child to his in-laws’ house on Grove Avenue, behind the couple’s house. VanderMaiden makes no reference to this in his report.

VanderMaiden makes no reference because he was not yet on the scene. Curtis does not call 911. According to Cory’s mother, he arrives at the door, hands her the child and says, “Cory is dead.” and walks away.

9:15 a.m.: Lovelace calls Adams County State’s Attorney Jon Barnard, who calls EMS.

I believe the attorney he called was his boss. Still no call from Curtis to EMS. His first call is to an attorney.

9:23 a.m.: Quincy Fire Department and EMS dispatched to scene.

9:25 a.m.: VanderMaiden arrives at residence.

9:44 a.m.: Baird arrives at residence.

9:45 a.m.: Cory Lovelace pronounced dead by Adams County Coroner Gary Hamilton.

At some point, Curtis brought his kids home from school, told them their mother had died, and returned them to school. A friend of the couple says that there marriage was rocky.  Neighbors testified to lots of shouting coming from the Lovelace house. Both said Cory seemed to be doing most of the yelling.

There is a lot more to this case. It’s being covered by Nancy Grace and Dateline.  I just thought I’d start a post in case any of you are watching it. It’s actually supposed to end this week after just starting last week!

Also, as my crime lovers know, when we discuss a case, the rules are a bit more lax and you are allowed to discuss information from other places.

290 Comments

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290 responses to “Sidebar: Any Interest in Talking About The Lovelace Murder Trial?

  1. loriflack

    I just finished reading how Bill Cosby did in court today ( mixed bag ). So now am into that stuff again and will check this story out, hmmmm.

  2. Ummm when you think your wife is dead, you call 911. You try to make sure. You don’t take the kid to grammas and tell gramma and walk off. You don’t call other people before calling 911. It will be interesting to find out what her autopsy revealed her COD to be.

  3. Matzah60

    I am going to catch up with this story. Nancy Grace with all her shrill screaming is still an ace lawyer and former district attorney. Her coverage is excellent even when she is yelling over her guests. She actually covered a muder case in the small town next to me where a husband whom most believe killed his wife has yet to be named a person of interest. Thanks for posting.

    • Matzah60

      The man whose wife was killed near me is a doctor. They also had a rocky marriage and was someone that was friends of me and my ex. He got to the house and found her alive and tried to resuscitate her before calling 911. Most think it was a hired hit. Perhaps Curtis arranged for a hit on his wife when he took the kids to school.

      This case about the Lovelace couple is a very cold case. How can witness testimony dating back 14 years be deemed reliable or accurate?

    • SashaV

      I love it when she says “BOMBSHELL TONIGHT”! I would tune in just to hear that. It cracks me up lol. I never heard about this case but am intrigued.

  4. KatherineNOLA

    TT, I’ve been gone for while, got moved to Austin and am settling in. So glad you are going to cover this trial. I have been following in the news and so many things seem off. I can’t believe he would take the youngest son to his in-laws prior to calling 911. Especially since he worked for the states attorneys office. I will be following and need to get caught up on the rest of your recaps!

  5. k-slay

    What did she die from? Did I miss that in the above? But yeah.. first call to an attorney and never thought once to call 911 – makes 0 sense.

  6. tamaratattles

    A couple things I forgot to mention.

    First, I don’t cover or wish to discuss rape related cases here (like Cosby for personal reasons.)

    The first autoposy was inconclusive. But now they have that Dr. Baden idiot testifying who says whatever the people paying him want to say. I don’t put any faith in his opinions. But he is saying it is homicidal suffocation. He says he can tell that because her arms are face up and “nobody could die that way.”

    The waiting 8 years to declare the case a homicide seems odd to me.

    Baden and some others believe that Cory was dead well before the kids left for school. There is also something with the defense about Cory having bulimia and being an alcoholic. Curtis says he quit drinking in 2012 when he realized he had a problem.

    Her blood alcohol level was .049, there was no acohol in her eye fluid or urine. Baden says this is proof she died the previous night or something.

  7. “At some point, Curtis brought his kids home from school, told them their mother had died, and returned them to school.” Good lord, who does that? Hey kids, I’m getting you out of school to tell you your mom’s dead…now, let’s get back to school. This is fucked up in itself. I can’t imagine what the kids were feeling. Jesus.

    I’m already hooked and look forward to hearing more about this case. I think I already kind of hate this guy because he took his kids out of school to tell them their mother was dead, BUT THEN TOOK THEM BACK TO SCHOOL. I’m flabbergasted….and I know, repeating myself, but WHO DOES THAT?

    • Toddy

      Ginger, agreed – nuts and heartless to take the kids back to school.

      • Yeah, I know! THEN he takes the youngest one to his mother-in-law and says ‘Cory is dead’ and walks away. Damn, so far this guy doesn’t sound like he’s too broken up over her death. One would expect him to show some kind of emotion, like maybe some sadness and grief? This was his wife’s mother, her daughter was DEAD, and he just walks away? Truly this world is full of lunatics. I know someone could counteract my thoughts that not everyone grieves in the same way and I know that’s true. But so far, it seems to me this guy is just going through the motions. Maybe his mind checked out…who knows? But I already don’t like him or feel any sympathy.

        TT, I’m going to study up more on this case because it is interesting, and blessed respite from the HW’s. Thanks for the diversion.

    • Jaded

      Sorry Ginger, I should have scrolled down. I share your outrage at taking the kids back to school!

      • It’s already suspicious because Curtis (and I think someone had already mentioned this) called his attorney first. Guilty conscience maybe? I know one thing, I find someone dead in my house, I’m calling 911. HELP!!!

    • Angel(?)

      That is outrageous behavior! What the fuck did the kids do when they were sent back to school? I would have been hysterical.

      He may not be guilty of murder, but for sure he guilty of being a cold hearted bastard.

      Btw, what attorney doesn’t know you call 911 first?

    • Psychopath! No doubt in my mind he did it.

    • A sociopath without empathy does that.

    • Amy

      Corey and Curtis were/are good people. This has torn a family apart! Please refrain from nasty comments until you know the entire story!

  8. The kids had to go back to school after being told their mother was dead? Wtf?

  9. Jaded

    Why would anyone tell their children their mother is dead and then take them back to school? I can’t with Nancy Grace she just isn’t credible.

    • bravocueen

      Agree with you on both counts. Nancy Grace can be brilliant, but her own personal tragedy causes her to be completely biased when reporting most cases.

  10. bree

    Dateline is my weakness! I can’t believe I haven’t heard of this story until now!

  11. tamaratattles

    Supposedly, the female friend of the family that testified said the she asked Curtis about taking the kids back to school. He told her he was trying to spare the kids from a house full of crying adults.

    She responded with something like, “would one of them be you?” and he said something along the lines of “absolutely not.”

    • Sam

      So why the hell bother going to school to tell them and then send them back? Why not just leave them there to be oblivious and tell them after school? This guy sounds like he’s a nutjob. I’m very interested in learning more about this case. Sounds like something Ann Rule might write about.

      • Dee

        I agree, let them be oblivious as long as possible. Dragging them out of school, then taking them back was heartless

    • quincygirl

      That was the lawyer asking Amy on the stand if Curtis was one of the crying adults and HER response was “absolutely NOT”. It was no secret that day after seeing that she thinks he is guilty and she even said twice.. “He isn’t a big football star to me”.

  12. Cat

    I find these trials fascinating. I have not heard of this case, I was following recaps of the Carnation murder trial, but for some reason, those recaps make my tablet wonky. So, I stopped.

    Now, after seeing the Dr. Phil interview of Ron Goldman’s and Nicole Brown’s families, and their feelings about the movie that airs tonight, I have a bit of a different perspective on these things being public.

    As you say, TT, I feel some kind of way about it.

  13. peachteachr

    YES! And on the subject of trials, I was about to email you and suggest the Dalia Dippolito case near Palm Beach. She hired a hitman and said she was 5000% sure she wanted him dead. It’s been on the news shows on the big alphabet stations and was being filmed in real time for Cops or Snapped. I’m obsessed with this and 2 of the talking head lawyers from Arias, CNN, and Fox, Mark Eiglarsh & Brian Claypool are her new attorneys. Should happen in May and Florida has wide open, no secrets courtrooms.
    Love a trial so I’m headed back up to read the story.

    • Stephanie

      That was on an episode of snapped. I ended up seeing the episode, pretty intriguing.

      • Spilledperfume

        That story made the rounds of the news shows.

      • Allison

        Oh yes, the Dalia dippolito case was oversaturated. I think partially because it was filmed for a ‘Cops’ episode or something? And they caught a real gem. Plus she was considered attractive, plastic surgery, etc. Ive seen the snapped and 48 hours episodes so many times, I can’t anymore. Off to the airport, headed to PDX. I’ll catch up in between flights ?

  14. tamaratattles

    This is what happened today in the Lovelace case. I really don’t see how they proved this case.

    He said he gave Quincy police Detective Jeff Baird’s observations from the scene more weight than what he could determine through scene photos and other evidence. Nichols also said the Lovelace children’s statements given to police two days after their mother’s death weighed in his decision.

    A day earlier in court, three of the four Lovelace differed on their recollections of seeing their mother alive on the day of her death, but all testified that they did not remember being interviewed by Baird two days later.

    Nichols spent just over 20 years as the chief medical examiner for the state of Kentucky and said he has conducted well over 5,000 autopsies during his career. He said he found the position of Cory Lovelace’s arms after death to be “a bit unusual.” Her arms were raised and bent when she was found dead in her bed at the family’s home at 1869 Kentucky. Her left arm was up near her shoulder, and her right arm was in a similar position but a little lower on her body.

    “But people come to rest in all kinds of different positions when they die,” Nichols said.

    He said that it was possible for Cory Lovelace’s body to go into rigor mortis early and that rigor mortis was “highly variable from person to person.” Nichols said that determining cause of death via rigor mortis was not an exact science.

    “The people on ‘Quincy’ and ‘CSI’ can, but those aren’t reality,” Nichols said. “Real pathologists can’t (determine a death time via rigor mortis) with any degree of science.”

    Nichols’ opinion runs counter to testimony by two forensic experts for the state, who both contended that Cory Lovelace had been dead for hours before emergency personnel were summoned.

    Dr. Jane Turner said she trusted the science and Cory Lovelace was dead between 10 to 12 hours before authorities were contacted. On Monday, Dr. Michael Baden said his review of the autopsy showed that Cory Lovelace died at about midnight, or about nine hours Curtis Lovelace said he found her lifeless body in bed.

    Nichols said he had seen two other cases of early rigor mortis in his career — one caused by a seizure and another caused by an electrocution. He said Cory Lovelace’s body showed no signs of seizure and she was not electrocuted.

    Special prosecutor Ed Parkinson and Nichols sparred at times during cross-examination.

    “If this woman was suffocated by a pillow, then I’ve missed dozens of other homicides in my career,” Nichols said.

    “Maybe you have,” Parkinson said.

    Nichols said he couldn’t consider Lovelace’s death a homicide because there wasn’t enough trauma to her body. Nichols said he would have seen more marks under Lovelace’s lips similar to the one that was found on her. Nichols said Cory Lovelace also would have fought back, unless she was in a coma-like state.

    “There is no physical evidence to prove suffocation by a pillow,” Nichols said.

    Nichols was on the stand for just over 90 minutes, the only witness of the day. Defense attorney James Elmore apologized to the court and the jury for not having another witness ready.

    The defense’s other expert, Chicago-based Dr. Shaku Teas, is scheduled to testify Wednesday morning. Closing statements are scheduled for Thursday morning, with the jury expected to get the case about noon Thursday.

  15. Love this kind of stuff, but especially when you do it. Besides Bravo, my other addiction is Investigation Discovery. I’m surprised I never heard of this case, will definitely read up about it.

  16. Spilledperfume

    I love these type of stories and I think it would be great if you covered it. I wasn’t around when you were covering Jodi Arias.

    I’ll be back to finish reading comments.

  17. Allison

    Never heard of this case but its definitely interesting!

  18. I am all about the true crime…an interest/morbid fascination that I’ve pursued since a mid 70’s fascination to what later became known as The Green Beret/Fatal Vision Killer Jeffrey MacDonald. Definitely pre-dating my interest/morbid fascination with Reality tv/housewives, lol.

    Haven’t heard of this one even tho’ it’s fairly close by and plan to read up before commenting specifically. I will say just from the case recap, I’m reminded of the time I got through to one of the main detectives on the OJ case (he’d written a book and was on a local radio show promoting) to ask baskically how did he think the actual murder went down? The detective (I believe it was Vanadder or something like that) basically described the basic scenario that we all know and I asked then but what if OJ’s own kids came to the door? Or ran outside during the brutality? It was his firm belief that he would have slashed them…or anyone else who came along…in his frenzy. It also didn’t phase him that the kids may have been the ones who happened upon the gruesome blood bath – all about self-preservation.

    • Sam

      Fatal Vision scared the crap out of me but fascinated me at the same time. I also am very interested in true crime novels and have read many of them. It has made me really look at certain people and situations with a cautious skepticism, for better or worse.

    • Tara

      Jeffrey MacDonald’s atty didn’t do too well after that case. He was a waiter at 42nd St. Oyster Bar in Raleigh NC. My mama would always point him out.
      The movie scared me to death for some reason, my parents let me watch it with them and I was a child. Maybe that is the reason I am addicted to the I.D. channel.

  19. Sorry about the “test”…I was trying to see why I couldn’t see the “Post Comment” button…I think my post was too long. :(

    Here’s the end of it……>>
    Just a cursory read – but struck a chord that this guy may have needed the 4 year old to be the one to discover Mom for his alibi.

    Shit now I’m thinking of the ex hub who hired his ex killed and the toddler triplets spent the day with the body?

    The idea I think is that they count on good people to think no “Dad” would do that.

  20. Toddy

    TT, you’ve piqued my interest. Going to research what caused them to look at him after 8 years.

  21. Red Flag>> He didn’t call 911, really?? He called his boss? ‘…Jon Barnard, still Adams County’s state’s attorney — and Barnard summoned emergency responders for him”

  22. JustJenn

    So after she passed out drunk he put something over face and smothered her to death? It would explain why her arms were lifted and why there wasn’t much of a struggle. What an asshole this guy is..poor kids.

  23. RL

    Working for a defense attorney and just finishing up a double homicide murder trial, I have a hard time making any kind of conclusion bc now I know just how much information doesn’t make it into court, and how blatantly wrong the news gets things, so I reserve opinions on whether he did it or not. Although, the taking the kids back to school seems very cold, regardless of whether he killed her or not.

    On a different note, if anyone (or TT, especially) want a really bizarre case to follow or look into, check out the gypsy Blanchard (Springfield Mo) case. It will be on HBO for sure eventually and has so many twists and turns. When it finally goes to court (if they aren’t offered pleas) it will be a doozy!

    • Allison

      Holy moly on the gypsy Blanchard case.

      • quincygirl

        He lied about that – he actually went to their school and told them at the principals office and left them there. Saying that they wanted to stay for their “valentines day party”. WHAT???? Who does that? I would have picked my kids up without saying a word and brought them home and told them there, and kept them home and loved on them.

      • RL

        I know it! Beyond crazy! It even sounds like a TV movie plot!

  24. Dee-AZ @jordan1022

    My first question is why did it take 8 years before he was arrested. I won’t even touch the part of pulling kids out of school then taking them back. As always thank you TT. I definitely need to read up on this. Court cases are true reality. OJ mini series starts here in an hour. Btw you did an exceptional job on Jody A trial & I live here where it happened & got more info from you then I did from local news.

    • quincygirl

      There was a new detective promoted and he was going through old cases. He said this case stood out. Her arms were frozen above her head in an odd position.

  25. There are only four ways to die: by natural causes, an accident, suicide, or homicide. It appears we can rule out the first three. Cory didn’t die from natural causes (illness, cancer, heart attack, etc.) and we know it wasn’t an accident, she didn’t kill herself, then that only leaves homicide. This woman was murdered. Who hated her enough to want her dead? I think it would be entirely possible to suffocate someone by pressing down on their chest. Maybe Curtis got a pillow or a comforter and forced her down, covered her face, had her arms confined, to lessen the struggle, and pressed down on her chest.

    Where am I going wrong?

  26. Queen of the Nile

    This will be interesting to follow — so far the husband is looking guilty as hell, but I don’t understand the delay to charge him. Is there somewhere court coverage is aired? I hadn’t heard about this case.

  27. quincygirl

    My home town – – its just an odd odd case. There is so much more they are NOT REPORTING! He was fired from SA office. For i believe his drinking. The 3rd wife and him were together for 8 months before he was arrested and she adopted the 2 youngest kids at ages 13 and 16 so I believe Curtis can still have a control over them. Even from jail/prison. I believe He sees his daughter, he sees the wife he killed. That is the strong detests he has for her. The boys are sad, they are not who they used to be. They used to be social, and fun loving. Now, they hang their heads in shame. As we all would. Third wife, should have ran away!

    • Spilledperfume

      Quincy, forgive me for not understanding the statement “he sees the wife he killed” I’m confused.

      • quincygirl

        The daughter looks just like her mother – !!! That it what I mean, I think when he looks at her, he sees her mother, whom he did kill.
        And i just see online that our news is having a one on one with the daughter who has been very quiet, tonight at 10Pm! She is estranged with her dad and has been for years.

      • Spilledperfume

        Thank you!

    • tamaratattles

      quincygirl, I am excited of your reports. but I must prepare you if there is JUSTICE in your little town this man will not be found guilty. There is ZERO evidience. and even the mother of the dead woman doesn’t feel in her heart he is guilty. Or so she says. She is unsure. She has forgiven him of… something..

      I get you are a townsperson in a smallish town. But this country works on a justice system that requires evidence. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. There are conflicting opinions on the pathology reports, NO ONE thought there was a reason to suspect the guy all those years ago. if justice is served he will walk.

      Is he a sociopath that killed his wife? Probably so, but if I was on the jury, I’d let him go. Because JURIES have to operate on the LAW.

      You should start preparing yourself for that rather than working yourself into a lather thinking he will be convicted.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        Not everyone in this smallish town feels that the jury can convict him on the evidence that the news has reported.
        I not sure what to believe but if I was on the jury and this was all there was I could not convict.

      • quincygirl

        There is no evidence he DIDN’T DO IT! His time line does not match up, The pathologist Dr. Baden (google him) even says her abrasion above her lip and her redness above her mouth matches with suffocation, her lips were purple and was in rigor mortis by the time the police got there, an hour after he saw her last alive? Her hands were perched above her head frozen as if the pillow was left there for hours, then removed…. He said he typed a letter up that morning to cancel a law class and left to hang it on his law class. But, it was never printed according to the Detective, nobody saw him leave or return either. Class was never canceled according to a former student. Now, the daughter says she might have remembered seeing her mom on the morning before she passed and not the day she passed. There has to be circumstantial – not always physical evidence. The fact that he didn’t call 911 or attempt to check on her when his 4 year old told him she didn’t wake up is big too. I wish i could talk more about his character – but the trial didn’t.
        The original pathologist was incompetent and was barred from Illinois. She is now in Iowa and is not in forensic pathology anymore because of her errors. So they went to other pathologists, that is why it was undetermined and not ruled a homicide before. And they focused on her alcohol usage so much and nothing else, they closed it within 30 days before the coroners inquest was even done. it was a botch job of an investigation !!

  28. quincygirl

    i am going to closing statements tomorrow – ask me tomorrow if you have any questions!! :) Its gonna be a tough case. You either believe 2 qualified pathologists or 2 quacks, and the kids. Poor jury

  29. I haven’t heard anything about this case, but I’m in if TT will discuss it. I love the true crime genre. I think it’s wondering, “WTF were you thinking? What did you think would happen? Did you really believe no one would notice your wife was murdered?” I find fascinating. I started reading TT during the Jodi Arias trial – excellent coverage – and got hooked.

  30. dob23

    I just stumbled on this post. I have covered this case from the start. The only reporter in this market to go to every hearing since his arrest. It is a heck of a story. Almost all of the background here is my reporting for the Quincy Herald-Whig.

    If anyone would like to follow the outcome live on Thursday, follow me on Twitter at @DOBrienWHIG. I plan on using Periscope to get some post-verdict interviews as well.

    Commenters here have brought up some very interesting questions.

    Thanks for posting about the case. I’m always interested in seeing how others view what is going with this case.

    • tamaratattles

      Wow, it’s true, everyone does read TT! And yes, this is the source for pretty much everything I read on this case. Why were you up so late? You have court today!

      • dob23

        I know. I couldn’t sleep last night and started looking to see if anyone was talking about the case. I found you about 10 pages into a Google search!

        Very nice site here. Luckily I need only about 6 hours of sleep a night to function.

        Jury’s been out for about 90 minutes. I’m expecting a long stay here. Thanks for starting the discussion here.

      • Spilledperfume

        Wow! This is so fascinating.

      • Dee

        Tamara, I read that you ARE one of the most famous bloggers. I even saw an estimate of views per day someplace. The number is impressive 😉

    • Spilledperfume

      I definitely need to learn how to use Twitter. I also need to figure out what periscope is. I feel so far behind.

      I’m looking forward to hearing the outcome of the case.

  31. I was just coming here to post exactly what TT posted, lol…If I’m on the jury (unless there’s something in the court transcripts vs new reports) this guy walks if I’m on jury. Prosecutors have not proven the case/no evidence that I can see.

    On the other hand, he definitely did it.

  32. tamaratattles

    Well, Quincy girl seems to think it is up to Curtis to prove he didn’t do it. She also has admiration for Baden whose mere presence on the prosecution team screams to me that they don’t have the evidence.

    Clearly, is Quincygirl was on the juror she would be voting guilty and would be very impressed with Baden. I can’t fathom anyone actually watching Baden’s testimony and finding him intelligent, but that’s just me. I wonder if the defense attorney asked Baden how much he was being paid for his testimony. Lots more than he is paying his guy from Kentucky I’d imagine.

    The jury is deliberating now. Dob23 is there and updating on twitter. (And maybe even here!)

    • quincygirl

      I don’t have admiration for Baden,I have admiration for people who look at the evidence for more than 5 minutes. But the original pathologist Bowman, was ruled incompetent and was barred in Illinois. The other pathologists had no reasons why they were undetermined except she drank. There were no reasons for her hands to be in mid air except they were bunched up under a comforter, but the evidence was the comforter was at her waist. Baden was one witness, you are also going by your opinion which you can’t go by here. Science is Science… rigor does not set in that fast. Hands frozen in air? Lips already deep purple? In 30 minutes? No, it doesn’t happen. Its not an opinion. Its science, they didn’t press charges 8 years earlier because of how it was investigated. Point blank. I listened to evidence and seen the pictures myself. I made the decision upon what i heard and saw.

      • Abw0706

        Quincygirl, I don’t disagree with you at all that I believe that he is guilty based off the science and my overall guy from what has been presented. However, it’s not up to the Defense to prove that Curtis “didn’t do it” as you stated above. It’s up to the State to prove that “he did do it” beyond any reasonable doubt. And, I have my doubts that they proved that and what those children said will weigh on those jurors,,,,,

  33. Justa Guy

    There seems to be much not covered in news, and that might make all the difference.

    He was divorced from his second wife about a month before the investigation began, then the arrest was a little later. A new detective was asked to look into it, not sure if it was revealed why. The jury heard a taped dialogue with Curtis, I think from the time of the arrest, but they held back the part from (I think) the second wife. The prosecution wanted to call the second wife but the judge rejected that request.

    It seems feasible the body was left with the pillow still there, then rigor fixed arms in air so that was a problem for Curtis, but there was no pillow or anything when cops arrived, just arms up in the air. That seems to be the main evidence, since he claimed to have found her like that (I think). The rest is supportive, but enough? I have no clue. Even the jury hearing everything may be almost convinced, but a reasonable doubt makes him free as a bird, even if guilty (except for the year served, and costs)

    Two pathologists didn’t think death by fatty liver, or whatever, was a feasible cause. Without sitting in the room hearing all the evidence it is impossible to say who was believable. Arms levitated with pillow gone is pretty solid, and not really refuted by the other pathologists (one of which had real credibility problems). Something held them up, scene was tampered with, no explanation. Early rigor is also very unlikely, and that was observed by cops. Dog walker sees nervous man earlier. Lots of supportive evidence, odd behavior. It also seems reasonable that Curtis perhaps failed to anticipate rigor fixing arms like that, hence the pacing.

    Lovelace was also president of school board, as I recall. And the boss he called was a man of influence, not just a lawyer. He didn’t call 911 or would have had a recording. Lovelace had been an asst state’s attorney. But the prosecution depends on not believing the kids, that thought they saw their Mom alive that day. They don’t remember being interviewed by Bernard (?), which also seems very odd.

    A local news guy linked to your site … would be good to hear from those in court. It went to the jury three hours ago.

  34. Dancemom

    I agree that the prosecution did not prove the case. Yes, there was some odd behavior and some of the timelines don’t match up correctly, but the prosecution didn’t even prove that a crime was committed. I found it very telling that Detective Gibson initially contacted Teas who told him that and went to another pathologist.

    This is a very interesting case with a ton of pieces but at the end of the day the prosecution first has to prove that there was a crime and then that Curt did it.

    Their premise that Cory died at 9 or 10 at night doesn’t ring true. Curt is a super smart guy – and working as a prosecuting attorney at that time. If you killed your wife at 9 or 10 at night and then had all night to plan how you were going to handle it I don’t think we would have seen all of the strange behavior (not calling 911) on the day of the murder. Just my two cents. I would have ‘woken up’ and found her that way and planned all of my actions in advance.

    • usmc

      How do you know curt is a super smart guy i thought you said you went to school with cory curt and Baird but didn’t know them that well .. I do find it strange that Baird did the first investigation since they knew each other from H.S and most likely worked with each when curt was a assistant state attorney. .you would think outside investigators would of been used giving the job profile of the person involved (curt). So why question Det gibson motives when he has no real history with curt as Baird did..seems fishy. .

      • Smallishtowngirl

        Our high school classes were around 600 kids. So quite possible to know of but not be friends. Also Curt was in many of the accelerated/advanced/honors or whatever we called them classes. And if I remember correctly Beta Club and National Honor Society. So entirely possible to consider him smart and not consider him a friend. I would say the same. We had classes together but we were not friends. I can’t ever recall being at any non school function where he was present. And football wasn’t really a big deal in this town in that era. We are a basketball town. So the whole golden boy moniker that the media portrays is odd as well. I think we may have had a winning season that year but it was the first in I don’t know twenty years. I don’t even know what position he played in high school. I do know he was a Center at U of I. So not even a glamorous position. I am sure some people cated but I don’t think I went to more than 1 or 2 football games nor did my friends. We did other things on Friday nights as did lots of people in town.

  35. tamaratattles

    For those reading along, even Baden didn’t say her hands were frozen in the air or that her lips were purple in thirty minutes. Even Baden wouldn’t say anything that dumb. He does claim that the victim died hours before despite the fact that three children were interviewed by police two days later stating that their mother got up to get them ready for school and she went back to bed because she was sick. One of the boys said he asked if he could stay home from school to take care of his mother that day.

    Curtis could have smothered her right before he left or as soon as he got back. But not when Baden was paid to say that it happened. The fact that this comparatively small town purchased Baden to come in and read the coroners report and make one of his whackadoodle claims VERY strange. I find the fact they brought the case at all very strange.

    Oh and there is no science involved with Baden ever. He’s 81 years old and half bind. He reads over the reports of the people who actually saw the boy and then makes a case for which ever side is paying him that it could be a different cause or manner of death.

    I really wish the defense attorney would have gone through all of Baden’s cases (and mentioned his TV show) and asked who paid him, and whose side benefitted from the testimony proving that he has never come to a conclusion that the paying party didn’t like, thereby his opinion (not science) is worthless.

    • Smallishtowngirl

      Thank you TT, I was pretty sure my knowledge of the parties involved wasn’t clouding my judgement of Baden’s remarks.
      He could have done it, I don’t deny that but misreporting the time of her death does not mean he did. I admit he exhibited some very odd behaviors. But the prosecution has nothing but paid guns and what looks like a feud between two detectives.
      I also saw no media reports made that suggested that her hands where over her head or in mid air only that one arm was near her shoulder and another lower. No mention of if they were to her side, above or over her head or above her chest. I have read every media report and listened to all outlets.

      The initial autopsy was lacking but you can’t convict a man of murder on what has been reported by the media, at least I would hope not. This whole case is very strange. I know of a few folks who are upset about the amount of money this cost.

      • quincygirl

        Go to the Facebook page of Bill Beard the sketch artist doing the trial. He is very detailed about the hands and the description. I saw the pictures. They are about 6-8″ up in the air. Not resting down at all. The media reports do talk about how they were above her head. It was in opening statements.
        I am sure we all know each other, as we are all graduates of QHS.

    • Dancemom

      I’ve had the sense that Gibson (2nd detective) was determined to find something he could use. You have to wonder if the 2nd wife didn’t make an accusation to the police . After the first pathologist you talk to said, no case, no evidence how many other pathologists are you willing to pay to get the answer you want? Also agree with TT that it’s surprising Quincy paid for Baden.

      Disclosure: I went to HS in Quincy same time and knew several of the people involved (Cory, Curt, Baird) not well and decades ago. Parents still live in Quincy- hear some interesting speculation and gossip.

      • smallishtowngirl

        We probably know each other 😉

      • usmc

        I find it odd that in one of your statements you say you went to HS and knew cory curt and baird but not well and decade’s ago. Then in another statement you say how curt is a super- smart guy etc..I think you do know curt more then you say you do…then you want to turn around and question the character of det gibson.. not Bairds handling of the investigation.. To me it looks like you made your decision on this case a long time ago.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        I can’t reply directly to usmc on this thread but I think dancermom is in the same place as I am. Not convinced either way. From what the media has released of the trial there is very odd behavior but that is it. As far as Baird, once again, hindsight is 20/20. He believed the autopsy of a pathologist who was later proved to be lax in her duties. Maybe if you are in Adams Co lawyer/courthouse circles there was suspicion but that gossip did not make it to the general public. And i hear plenty of gossip in my profession. So there are many of us in town whobate just confused about the whole thing.

    • Smallishtowngirl

      I live in Quincy as well. Many people I know are not even following the trial. Of the ones that are many don’t know what to think. I never heard any tongues wagging about this being a murder until the arrest was made. I attended Corys visitation. I agree Curt has done some odd odd things and the family dynamic is very odd.
      I am not trying to argue with QG but her view while it could very well be true is not the foegone conclusion in this town that her posts make it appear to be.

  36. tamaratattles

    The jurors have a question ….. waiting for everyone to reconvene…

  37. tamaratattles

    The jurors came back asking to watch a video. We were not told which video but if I had to guess, I’d say they want to watch the police questioning of the three children. All of whom talked about seeing their mother before school on Valentines Day.

    They are going to deliberate until 9 pm central time but will not reach a verdict tonight.

    They will be back at nine am in the morning.

    • quincygirl

      Jury is done til 9am tomorrow when they will come back to deliberate!
      There is no video of interviews with children. Just of Curtis after his arrest and one with daughter months before his arrest. Nothing recorded of kids in 2006. Nobody recorded anything in 2006.
      The other 2 pathologists were paid too, let’s not forget. They don’t volunteer their time. One of their pathologists couldn’t rule out suffocation. Baden may be up there in age but he has never been barred from a state from incompetence over and over. The autopsy pic showed her hands above her head and near her chest like the pillow was take away. Her lips were purple within an hour of finding her. She had a cut Above her lip inside and out that matched up with a tooth. Seen it with my own eyes.As if a person took a pillow while she was sleeping or passed out and smothered her til she stopped breathing. Then kept it there for hours, explaining the hands being in the air when she was found in an “unnatural position” quoted by Curt. His son told him he couldn’t wake his mommy up around 8:35, when he got back taking kids to school but didn’t go to check on her til after 9. Even after he heard that, maybe because he already knew she was gone? Then he went to take a shower and take his youngest to his n laws and reportedly told them “corys dead” and walked off. That’s when he then around 9:20, called the States attorney instead of 911 to tell HIM also that Cory was dead not 911.. He told his kids their mom died later that day and kept them at school. Lots of inconsistencies. Traumatic days people usually don’t forget. He remembered nothing. Not a thing. I believe when you tell the truth, you don’t forget, when you lie.. you can’t remember what was said. It was only 8 years.
      I still remember when my grandparent passed away in 2006. Like it was yesterday.

    • Spilledperfume

      Thanks for the update.

  38. Steven

    Ok summary, but he did not take his kids home to tell them and return them to school, they were called to the principals office and told at school. I live in quincy and curtis is a very upstanding member of our community who was also school board president among other things.

  39. Steven

    This is an ok summary. But one thing that got wrong he did not pick up his kids from school tell them and return them. They were summoned to the principal’s office and told with their father. Curtis is a very upstanding member of our community. Who was the school board president amongst other things. In my humble opinion they do not present he evidence to convict a man of murder.

    • tamaratattles

      right, it was cleared up in comments he went to the school told his kids their mother was dead and sent them back to class. Who does that??

  40. Justa Guy

    Baden didn’t say “frozen in air” exactly.

    “Baden later said it’s possible a comforter crumpled up could have accounted for the space in between her arms and her body.” So the defense seems to be challenging Baden not about the space between arms and body, but about alternative ways it could have occurred, even though their alternative suggestion also did not fit the crime scene, apparently.
    http://khqa.com/news/local/lovelacetrial-day-6

    The only videos are one of Lyndsay and Det. Gibson done after the arrest, and one of Lovelace at the arrest. The account of the children was from Baird’s notes two days after, which none of them remember. They also testified, but memories can easily change especially in this sort of case. The boys were 4, 9, 10 at the time, if I subtracted correctly. Baird waiting two days to interview the kids is really odd, since it seems basic to get all stories immediately.

    The detective testified that he was requested to look into the case by his boss, iirc. The case had been left open, apparently because there were open questions, such as no cause of death. The body was cremated.

    There is not exactly a smoking gun that made the news at least, but if enough very strange things line up one way, and several statements made then don’t hold up, a conviction seems possible. But that is why only those that spent a whole week hearing everything are in the position to decide if they were given enough. The “more likely than not” to make the charge seems right, but the reasonable doubts might have been raised high enough. For her to die just when he went out that morning is also odd.

    • quincygirl

      The kids were 12, 8, 7 and 4. And the comforter was found neatly at her waist nothing was crumpled in the room. As far as him being a respectful member of our community, he was a functioning alcoholic. I believe he got fired from the States Attorney Office. And put the courthouse in a lock down mode since they were in fear of his retaliation. Then he finally opened his own law office in possibly 2012 or 2013. He was always on the edge. We all have our opinions, Clearly. We just know more than others. It’s fine. The second wife was a dramatic mistake, that we can take away. Her testimony I don’t believe would have helped or hurt him. If she didn’t tell Det. Gibson anything, than she shouldn’t have been put on the stand. I agree with that decision.

      • tamaratattles

        It seems that someone was absent for some of the classes at QHS. See when you are lying down with your arms over your head…oh never mind.

      • quincygirl

        They weren’t lIke that. That’s how i thought too, til i seen it myself. Imagine a pillow over your face, and your hands resting on the edges on top of it.. now take the pillow away but the hands are still there. They weren’t laying above her resting on the bed. They were in air.. in rigor mortis. I saw the pictures. Above her, meaning in air. Not resting over her head on the bed.

    • Thank you, Justa Guy, for the links. I’m going to read the each of the six day recaps. I appreciate the local prospective, too.

  41. I’d like to hear more about the 2nd wife and what the judge ruled inadmissable.

    The longer the jury is out the more likely acquittal is, right?

    The jurors may be struggling, as many of the comments here reflect, the opinion that he did – it but how can we convict him with no evidence?

  42. tamaratattles

    Tess, the news media showed there is a lot of support for Curtis from his boys and his wife and others in the community. They were show holding a group prayer outside the courthouse during deliberations.

    I find it most interesting the MOTHER OF THE VICTIM isn’t convinced he did it either.

    This whole case seems very odd to me. There is literally no evidence that a murder even occurred.

    • quincygirl

      That is not the case. She said she has forgiven him. She is a good person who has not been allowed to speak or see her grandsons. She isn’t going to say anything bad. There is not a LOT of support for Curt. Just because their pastor has been there and going and offering prayers, there are not multiple prayer groups. Just one. For Christine and her family. And they don’t even include Curts mom in anything. Christine and her family take up the whole front 2 rows, Curts own mother is sitting 3 or 4 rows back. I am telling you.. it’s an odd dynamic. Curts mom should be in the front row with Christine and the boys as they watch the trial. The jury need circumstantial.. that’s what they have. They do not have a smoking gun. Not all cases do. His inconsistencies are a lot. His character is a lot. The witnesses testimony, the neighbors, the pathologists testimony, the pictures. It’s there.. there is just no smoking gun.

      • Justa Guy

        thanks for filling in some context and details QG. I don’t know these people and am not there, but in the same year as the event had a small reason to deal with local lawyer on “lawyer shenanigans”. Of which my lawyer said “at least no one got killed”, which seemed extremely out of place and I commented to some at the time. “So that’s the standard for the “local clan” now? At least we didn’t murder you?”

        It makes more sense now, though maybe it was just a stray comment. I’ll just say I’m pretty sure it is quite wrong to assume no one had considered murder till recently. Rather I’d capture the tone from one professional I knew regarding another subject (of a few acquaintances with similar, stronger tone, on similar subjects) “what are they trying to get away with now?”

        But the whole power cronyism thing is rampant across the country at ever higher levels, which makes the friend investigating friend thing a national interest story perhaps. Guilty or not, procedure must be by “the book”. But with the biggest players now being “too big to fail, or jail”, perhaps joining the most powerful national syndicate is the way to go. (that’s mostly sarcasm 😉 )

      • quincygirl

        Det Baird cannot tell me they weren’t friends. Yes, they weren’t in school. Baird wad in plays and musicals. Lovelace was on the football field. But throughout the years their paths crossed. Their kids played football together. I seen it myself. Baird is the Mark Fuhrman of this trial and ruined it. He did no investigation of a 38 year old who passed away of a questionable man who a horrible character. Both had tempers. Who cares if he was on school board or was a lawyer, he was shady and a drunk.

  43. Shout out to whoever said to look into this other case….I just literally snorted Crystal Light into the farthest reaches of my sinus cavities choke-laughing on the first paragraph>>>

    “The state’s case — which aims to prove that Gypsy asked her boyfriend, Godejohn, to kill Gypsy’s mother, Clauddinnea “Dee Dee” Blanchard — began with two separate witnesses from the Greene County Sheriff’s Office testifying to their involvement in the investigation into Clauddinnea’s death.”

    True crime love notwithstanding, just don’t think I can keep read further tonight…there’s a song and lifetime movie in this one for sure, tho’!

  44. Spent a lot of years in a small town TT. This case reeks of vendetta – rightfully or wrongfully so, I’d say. Golden Boy and his contacts may have lost some of their power in these 8 intervening years and a new group was ready to tackle what should have been done at the time. I’m sure the tongues have never stopped wagging, and someone(s) is trying to make a name for themselves. (More than one is my bet – hence the expense of charlatan Baden.)

    It’s too late.

    If he is convicted, he’ll be released on appeal. I’m curious why the defense didn’t ask for the usual “directed verdict” I think it’s called? You know, the state didn’t make case rule?

    • quincy is my home

      There are probably many issues hiding behind the scenes in this case. I have worried from the beginning about possible cover-ups existing from the start. Very curious indeed. It would seem the newspaper man from the local paper could have a very good story.

      • quincygirl

        Yes I agree.. I believe him and I agree on a lot of things. And he can tell you that I am very credited too.

    • Justa Guy

      “a new group was ready to tackle what should have been done at the time. I’m sure the tongues have never stopped wagging”
      I don’t know all the dynamics, but if he was guilty and his connections suppressed further probing, that dynamic itself is perhaps more heinous than the alleged crime, in establishing sort of “fascist” regimes that oppress whole communities under their thumb. But that’s for the Silverado movie version, maybe he is innocent and there were just normal mistakes, a lot of them.

      Baden was called in by the Brown family in Ferguson. I followed another blog where some lawyers were not thrilled with him, but he didn’t seem to just make it up to help the Browns. iirc, he got it right and his analysis agreed with the final findings. But my mind wasn’t on impeaching Baden at the time, so maybe I missed something. Even if he were a charlatan, at least they kept they defense from using his celebrity influence. It doesn’t make them wrong, maybe wise.

      The Lovelace defense got a few extensions, so maybe they are the ones “pathologist shopping”. They may have paid a dozen before finding one that disagreed on the timing of rigor, lividity, and other forensics. Hopefully enough background was revealed that the actual science prevails.

      The timeline given allows at most 30-45 minutes for rigor to have set in, if Cory cooperated and died a moment after he saw her alive. But people that close to death show some signs, so another “no way”. Just Googling a few forensic sites, indicates two hours is the normal earliest STARTing point suggested, for rigor mortis. Then it continues for 20-30 hours. At least the two pathologists saw what didn’t look like a START of rigor or lividity, but an advanced stage. Forensic timing may not be as exact as CSI, but can it be THAT wrong?

      https://www.facebook.com/martyandturkey/posts/10205455122242421
      That’s a local sketch artist that has thoughts from sitting through the trial.

      • quincygirl

        If you go down to the 29th of January – it posts about her hands, and the position of them. Remember, they were in air.. not resting on a pillow or on the bed.

  45. usmc

    Does it seem strange that none of the kids remember getting interviewed by baird .

    • quincygirl

      The mother doesn’t remember being interviewed either. And the closing arguments they said it was because he was in a suit and not in the uniform

      • usmc

        Where did he do the interview at ..do you know if baird was by himself or was another detective with him during the interview .. Did he tape the interview?.To me this is important since .the defense experts put alot of stock into the kids statements in coming up with their theory etc from what ive gathered. .

      • quincygirl

        He interviewed the kids at their house 2 days later individually. Not taped, nor on video, only by notes. Which have since been destroyed. Mom was interviewed also at her home not on tape. You have to remember they didn’t think it was homicide, but I always thought they should have treated a 38 year old dying as that. And he wrote in his notes how “honest and forthright” Curtis seemed upon talking to him. Which prosecution hammered him on. His story matched on the 14th, 15th and again the 16th. ??? So ? But 8 years later… he couldn’t remember that day at all. Nothing. I believe the kids saw their Mom on Monday morning and not Tuesday.

      • Ab

        Was it brought up in trial that the mother doesn’t recall being interviewed either? I can’t imagine the amount of tension there must be in the QPD at this point with this.

      • tamaratattles

        I think a lot is being made of the family not remembering things. My parents both died when I was an adult of natural causes. My mother’s death was sudden and unexpected (stroke) and my father was sick for many years. I do not remember anything about the funeral, what we did after the funeral, where I stayed. A lot of people block out traumatic memories subconsciously. Especially small children. Not being able to remember much from 20 years ago doesn’t surprise me at all.

        Still on Verdict Watch…

        Also be sure to check out the link JustAGuy posted to the sketch artist who was in the courtroom’s facebook and his thoughts.

  46. tamaratattles

    Juror spent the morning watching the two videos. One of Curtis and One of Lyndsey.

    Still on Verdict Watch.

    • Spilledperfume

      Great sidebar TT. You picked a good one.

      • Dee

        I agree with SpilledPerfume good one! Interesting
        On a side note, I heard Whitney Houston sing the song from the Bodyguard today,and i cried for the loss of her voice, her essence. I loved her voice. It took me back to a time when I was so happy!
        Somewhere there is a blog where you mentioned, we could write anything. Well durned if I can find it now. Car was new, children small, I thought it would last forever. Sorry for the resume. I’m having a moment, please forgive. Dee

  47. tamaratattles

    We could be getting close. #VerdictWatch

  48. Justa Guy

    yeah I looked at that, thanks. It was helpful.
    Curtis in his interview at the arrest, iirc, mentions that her hands were up in that strange position. Some had suggested she asphyxiated herself, but if Curtis doesn’t mention an object there, that seems ruled out. Strangling herself seems almost impossible (have to choke on tongue after passing out), and still would not explain arms elevated.

    and here is a link to Jenny Dreasler interviewing the 48 Hours woman there for the trial.
    https://www.facebook.com/681553851990817/videos/815120505300817/?_rdr=p

    Maureen Maher puts it, that it comes down to science versus emotion (the two boys supporting Dad). My take of her interview was that she thought there was enough science to convict, though she didn’t quite say that.

  49. Justa Guy

    not his interview at arrest, I meant at time of death, when Curtis mentioned her hands up, but not anything object there

  50. tamaratattles

    Some sort of announcement is coming… perhaps about next deliberation time? I don’t know. I’ve been recapping. I’ll keep you updated.

  51. tamaratattles

    THE JURY IS HUNG!!!!!

    The judge will probably give them an Allen charge now. Tell them to think about it over the weekend.

  52. tamaratattles

    NO ALLEN CHARGE! Mistrial called. AND THE RETRIAL IS ALREADY SET FOR May 31st? This thing just keeps getting weirder.

  53. tamaratattles

    Okay, apparently they got an Allen Charge just after 2 PM and 5 PM also, in Illinois it looks like a retrial is automatic when the jury hangs.

    So Curtis is back in the pokey and it starts all over again in May.

    • usmc

      Does the jury count (guilty vs not )matter if a retrial is done

      • tamaratattles

        We may never know the jury count, but with Dateline and 48 hours there, some of the jurors will probably interview and we would find out then. They don’t poll a jury in a courtroom unless a verdict is reached.

  54. tamaratattles

    Curtis’s boys are quite upset, their adoptive mom (wife three?) is comforting them. His daughter has not been in court since her testimony.

  55. Tara

    WoW TT! You could do blogging about crime. I read all 149 post. I think the entire city is posting.
    Very interesting.

  56. Tara, TT DOES great blogging about crime. Go into her search box and read the Jodi Arias coverage. The George Zimmerman case and the Rusty Sneiderman murder coverage blogs are excellent too.

  57. I like a hung jury a lot more than a not guilty verdict. Somebody on that jury has their thinking cap on.

  58. I like it because the prosecution has time to tighten up their case after seeing all of the defense case. If the prosecution can’t come up with a stronger case against him, they really shouldn’t try him a second time. (I think he’s probably guilty, but a man shouldn’t be convicted on “probably.”)

    • Smallishtowngirl

      I am not sure another three months will do any more than the previous 18 unless there was evidence diasallowed that they can get admitted.

  59. Tara

    I just looked at the sketch artist FB post. Someone posted that they were in a class with one of the children (maybe a teacher or assistant teacher?) She said that they knew about this on 2-14 before school actually started.

  60. Tara

    When they go back to court do they have to use the same evidence? Can they keep investigating, questioning etc?
    I don’t know what else they could find out, just wondering.

    • tamaratattles

      There were things that were not allowed that should stay out for the second case as well. For example, wife number two wanted to testify and the defense blocked that. My spies at the hair salon in Quincy (and no, I’m not kidding, I never kid about spies) tell me that she was going to claim that Curtis was an abusive husband during their marriage. There doesn’t seem to be a record of that during the time of the marriage. And since this was after the death of Cory, then it’s really not relevant. The fact that the prosecution even tried to go there screams weak case to me.

      I’ve also heard that on the defense side, they had some delays while they found a pathologist (or two) to testify in support of the undetermined cause of death. Also, I have issues with Baden claiming “homicidal suffocation” as the cause of death. The COD should be a specific medical diagnosis, or a specific injury (grossly generalizing here). If Baden thinks the victim died of deliberate asphyxiation, the CAUSE of death would be traumatic asphyxia in combination with smothering (also sometimes called Burking). The manner of death would be homicide.

      There are some pretty specific visual clues on a body that has been smothered to death. Blood vessels break. The blood in veins turns blue due to the lack of oxygen. There are things to look for if anyone is looking. The presence of those things doesn’t rule out other things as the COD but if it is not there, then a loss of oxygen as a COD is pretty much ruled out.

      It seems to me we have a whole bunch of incompetency in coroner’s office, the police department and the prosecutor’s office. It’s just such a clusterfuck, with the lack of evidence from the original pathologist, the lack of records at the time of death and the destruction of records of interviews at the time of death, and the prosecution waiting 8 years until things were destroyed to bring a case precludes the possibility of any truths being discovered here.

      At this point, it doesn’t appear that an actual autopsy was ever performed, so I’m not sure what all the hired guns are using to based their decision on. When COD is undetermined then autopsies usually have to be done. It’s unclear to me whether this one was done at all, or done and botched or what exactly happened. But it’s ridiculous to try a case at all with so little evidence to go on.

      Quite frankly the grand jury didn’t even have a ham sandwich.

      • Tara

        TT, how do you know all this shit? I mean really, you are a fucking genius. From Yo to this, you know all the big words, the law, the medical terms etc. Have you ever tried out for Jeopardy?

        I had not even heard of this case, now I am hooked. As the 48 Hours lady said it’s emotion vs science, you can’t allow your emotions control you when it comes to justice. Reason 77588 I only umm date attorneys vs actually being one. That and the law degree.
        Thanks TT

      • tamaratattles

        I used to read a lot. Then I had my mind turned too mush by the Internet, to which I am highly addicted. I Google at least twenty times a day about all sorts of stuff. I’ve read way than I ever wanted to about Lyme. Yolanda’s social media provides many WTF moments that I Google. People send me arguments for both sides of the Chronic Lyme debate. I’m really sick of that topic. So refreshing on Cause of Death versus Manner of death was a welcome respite. I actually have to do that EVERY DAMN TRIAl (because of my lyme brain) and also because the expert witnesses keep mixing them up which doesn’t help us mere mortals,

        Have you been watching Jeopardy this week? It’s the College Championship thingy and the girls are kicking some ass.

    • Both the prosecution and the defence can and should continue investigating, asking questions, consider using different experts, searching for potentially valuable witnesses, rethinking strategy. They can use all, some, or none of the evidence from this trial. Both sides must follow rules of discovery regarding all evidence and witnesses. The next trial starts from square one; it’s a new day.

  61. usmc

    Was there anything reported about the sobriety of curt that day or the night before cory death.

    • quincygirl

      No… his sobriety was never mentioned. And this time I feel his character needs to be under attack. He GOT FIRED from state’s attorneys office!!! Attack that!!

    • tamaratattles

      I didn’t see anything about it, and haven’t read everything out there. It seems like most of the police reports don’t exist anymore. The autopsy never really happened, the body was cremated, it sounds like they have some photos and two videos and some magical pathologist who can determine cause of death by crime scene photos. So maybe Baden can weigh in on Curtis’ BAC in 2006 from his employee ID or something. :)

      • Smallishtowngirl

        Don’t forget TT they have TWO histopathology slides. That makes a solid autopsy right?

      • tamaratattles

        Smallishtowngirl, see… I don’t know what the heck they have. Finding any evidence in this case when you are not in the courtroom is quite the treasurehunt. It didn’t look like to me they opened her up at all. histopathy slides would explain the defense making a deal out of the fatty liver. If we assume that the two slides are of her liver tissue. If the defense is trying to say she was an alcoholic and a bulimic and she likely had a seizure to explain the odd hand position in rigor mortis, they need to make that explanation. Their pathologist if I remember correctly just said, rigor mortis onset is variable. This hand position being considered unusual seems to be what the people leaning toward guilt are basing their verdict on in conduction with conduct after the events that are consistent with guilt to many people. I also haven’t heard anyone say here is the picture taken from the crime scene and here is WHAT TIME THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN. That could be because I have not personally heard the evidence, or it could be because they don’t have time stamps on the photos (which of itself would be odd.) The defense could also claim she was holding the comforter and someone lowered the comforter either to check her for vitals or to take the photo itself.

        I can only assume the testimony in the court room made more sense than the pieces I’ve heard or read.

      • quincygirl

        The Detective didn’t arrive til 9:45 and that’s when the pictures were taken. Curtis states that’s exactly how he found her. Her arms were already up. And that Nothing was moved. The comforter was down at her waist when EMT and police arrived, not crumpled at all.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        Sorrry forgot to turn on the sarcasm font

      • Smallishtowngirl

        One of the pathologists, I think the St Louis professor for the prosecution stated that there were two liver histopathology slides. Only two. So a autopsy was performed but lacking in much of any thing but gross observation of organs other than the liver. I believe Nichols is also quoted as saying he would have been more thorough on the autopsy as well. The media has not reported on many of your questions which are the exact same questions that I have.

  62. I’m a betting gal…my $$ is the hung jury made him poopity his pants…plea deal. A little more than time served/manslaughter.

    I’m a big fan of the plea deal where not only guilt is admitted but the hows are explained!

    • I’d be changing my knickers and sending the prosecutors a Valentine to sweeten my plea deal, but sociopathic murders believe they are the smartest people in any room and will never admit they committed stupid, horrible crimes. Wonder if he’s eligible to enter an Alford Plea, essentially admitting no guilt but instead admitting the likelihood of conviction is strong, in exchange for a greatly reduced / creatively structured sentence. I have no idea if that’s a possibility in Illinois.

      • quincygirl

        Curtis doesn’t do well with valentine’s day !! 😉

      • Spilledperfume

        I am learning so much reading this sidebar. I still have to look up an Allen charge. TT used the term yesterday & I don’t know what it means.

        I tried looking up Bill Beard on FB but there are a lot of them and I didn’t know how to find the right one.

        TamaraTattles helping to entertain and educate since 2011. (TT, what would the real date be? I took 2011 from the bottom of your page.)

      • quincygirl

        There is a link to Bills page in one of these comments.. I think his profile page is just a close up picture of him. He did an amazing main job.

      • Spilledperfume

        Thank you. I’m going to go through all of the comments again.

      • quincygirl

        There is a link to Bill Beards fb page un one of the comments here that either Tamara or Justa Guy posted. His fb page is public once you get on it. He says some very interesting things.

      • Spilledperfume

        Thank you.

      • tamaratattles

        Spilled Perfume, a lot of us here have been discussing trials here for quite a while. If you click the Sidebar tag you can see some of the cases we discussed after Jodi Arias.

        An Allen charge is a statement a judge reads to a jury when they come back deadlocked. DOB23 tweeted they were read “Primm Instructions” which I googled and seem to be the term for it in Illinois. At least in civil cases. Nonetheless. In most all court cases we have followed here, when the jury comes back hung, they are brought into the court room where the judge in full robes and looking all judicial sternly reads a script to the jurors. That script basically says in mild legalese, “Hey look, we picked you people because we thought you were the best shot at getting a verdict. We have dragged experts in from the four corners of the country to convince you to give a verdict one way or another. If you dumbfucks don’t come up we are going to have to pick new dumbfucks WHO ARE NO SMARTER THAN YOU and DO THIS WHOLE THING ALL OVER AGAIN. SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET BACK IN THAT ROOM AND DON’T COME BACK UNTIL YOU HAVE A VERDICT!”

        Okay, that’s the subtext. It’s said much more nicely than that. Then the jurors go try to convince each other that they are right. In my experience this happens in a courtroom with the families there crying on both sides. It puts a lot of pressure on the jury. It seems in this case, they were read their version of an Allen Charge (I think the text itself is likely federal verbiage because it’s called an Allen charge after a Supreme Court case but each state sort of does it a bit differently regarding to when or how many times it’s used) Anyway, these jurors were read whatever they are read in Illinois at around 2 pm and again at around 5 pm yesterday according to DOB23. It usually doesn’t change a thing, but I’ve always seen it done, so the fact it was apparently done either in closed court or behind closed doors I was unaware it happened.

        JustaGuy posted the FB link. I need to go find it again myself.

      • Spilledperfume

        I realize that I’m relatively new here so I’m still playing catch up. This is the first sidebar of yours that I read and I’m learning as I go along. When you mentioned the Allen charge my intention was to Google it. I do that a lot as I read along. If I don’t understand it I Google it.

        I’ve been planning on reading your Jodi Arias posts but it is going to take some time. My BlackBerry shuts off after about an hour of reading & then I have to charge it. I am waiting to get a new phone.

        I also read your Chateau Sheree posts first because I’m shocked she took you to court.

        Sorry that you didn’t like my comment about sending Curtis a Valentines day card. If he killed his wife and took away the mother of his children then I don’t feel sympathetic towards him and I let it show in my comment.

        Thank you for the explanation of the Allen charge.

      • quincygirl

        Once this blog dis down, I wanna read the Jodi sidebar one too!
        The Curtis VD card was sarcastic.. it is the day in fact when he killed his wife. We have to find a little humor here. We have invested a lot here! Ha

      • tamaratattles

        I did not just not like your comment about sending a Valentine card to a man who is in prison fighting for his freedom and has not been convicted by a court of law of any crime, I found it deplorable. To that end, I’m going to caution you to use a modicum or more compassion here in a forum where actual people are involved and likely have family and friends reading here, that you would when you feel so comfortable saying vile things about housewives here.

        Just because “QuincyGirl” has arrived and attempted to try to convict a man here using her best fourth grade grammar, while high on her emotions because she knows somebody who once saw one of the people involved in this case down at the ole sodie fountain, and she thinks it’s a funny joke. It’s not. Sometimes we just entertain windowlicking until it ceases to be entertaining around here. Don’t be collateral damage.

      • quincygirl

        I apologize for VD card comment. I don’t have 4th grade grammar. I know a lot about this case.

        I know a lot about the families and the stories that I have discussed. I know Curts history and his temper and his threats to people. I think he perfectly capable of doing what he did to Cory. And manipulating the system to get away with it. And manipulating his children to make them believe what they think happened that morning. They are controlled by him. Completely.

      • tamaratattles

        Oh and a sidebar is when the lawyers approach the judge and talk about things that usually we can’t hear. Here at TT, it’s just the name of the post where the crazy trial freaks talk about trials. The reality TV crowd HATED us during the Jodi Arias trial because I didn’t report on the health of Lisa Vanderpump’s swans or the RHOOC new breast implants. They felt I no longer cared about those things. Which is not true! I care deeply about Tamra Barney’s breast implants, the implanted and the explanted. But a good court case gets me all distracted from the more important things in life. :) So most of the trial stuff after Arias and Zimmerman can be found under the tag Sidebar.

      • quincygirl

        Curtis isn’t very good with Valentine’s day !! 😉

      • Angel(?)

        @Spilledperfume, you should really take a look at at TT’s postings on Arias and Zimmerman. I watched the whole Arias trial but relied exclusively on TT for the sentencing trial. Tamara was very dedicated to providing us with information. I am sure for TT, it seemed like a never ending saga but it finally did. I am grateful for her coverage.

        I miss the trial coverage. I find this one confusing.

      • Queen of the Nile

        I’m confused, too!! I tried to keep up with all of the comments, but got lost. :-(

  63. Justa Guy

    I’m not a lawyer so not sure what they needed, but the grand jury only needs “more likely than not” evidence (ham sandwich level for the ambitious prosecutor). When it got through trial, somewhere between one and eleven jurors found the evidence of guilt to be beyond a reasonable doubt, so this was no ham on rye.

    Lovelace apparently changed the crime scene (hard for ham sandwiches) when (maybe) he realized arms like that didn’t fit her dying in her sleep. So he (thought he) needed the kids to see her, find her, convince them they saw her alive … that morning. And then he doesn’t call 911 (physical evidence) but his boss, to establish time of death, after kids “saw” her, while youngest boy still there, finding her. (and that kid thing worked on some jurors).

    This was a man with a plan, that lied about the death, both about the object removed (had to be by Curtis), and the time. Those two guilty knowledge lies have no explanation in the trial, except that he killed her and covered it up, by either convincing the kids or convincing his friend of the alternative story. No one remembers the interviews.

    Apparently in other situations (besides with the second wife) there were people afraid of him. We didn’t hear all the evidence. (and I wonder if even those observing in court saw everything) The 48 Hours woman seemed to find the physical evidence compelling, though she is not a lawyer afaik. A large body of evidence does not require the smoking gun for a conviction, from what I hear. The way the daughter and boys became separated from their dad, and grandmother … not the normal way a death is dealt with. There is some sort of dark oppression going on, some pathology perhaps.

    As to whether the community considered him innocent before, it really doesn’t matter. People liked OJ too … they loved him actually, great movies. The outer persona, maybe even more for a “star”, can hide a lot.

    There were serious issues brought out at trial. I had no inside info on the second wife, just found the timing of the divorce and the start of the investigation of interest. It may indeed have inspired the late investigation, and who knows what else she may have revealed … pillow talk, macho threats, bragging about what he can get away with. Guys with anger and/or ego issues do that stuff.

    Just my alternate hypothetical view … I appreciate your commentary. Too bad they cremated her without an autopsy. But one slideshow pictures her tombstone. Right next to her Dad, who apparently died two weeks after her. I hadn’t heard that part. Sad.

    • tamaratattles

      I’m not really following. How did he change the crime scene? I would he make his kids interact with a dead body and make them think they had conversations with her before school? Why would one kid remember asking to stay home and take care of her because she was sick? The kids say she was sick for days, did she see a doctor? Was he poisoning her? I’m still not seeing this large body of evidence that some of you are.

      The timing with the second wife and the reopening of the case sounds interesting. I have heard the police got a new cop who “started looking at cold cases.” Which didn’t make a lot of sense to me. The second wife ratting him out makes more sense.

      And yeah, the Dad’s death was expected he had end stage cancer at the time Cory died. Cory’s mother has been through hell. Husband and daughter die within weeks the two or three years later raising a teen grandchild, deeply scarred by her mother’s death. It’a all a terrible mess.

      • quincygirl

        Apparently she hadn’t been to the Dr in 4 years since after birth of youngest. And the room hadn’t been rattled at all.
        I say they need to press hard in trial 2.
        1) Put wife 2 on the stand 2) Press the issue with Lincoln on why he thought mommy broke her hand and why he thought she died in the afternoon 3) Put the school employees on stand 4) Former Co workers on the stand
        Ask the right questions this time, they didn’t ask good questions or the right questions.
        Any other alleged accused murderer has his character assassinated, they haven’t done that with him. And there is a lot of attack.

      • Tara

        @QG I don’t feel the 2nd wife will ever make it to the stand. Why did she wait to say something? I am not saying he did or did not abuse her but it just seems odd. To me she seems to be a bitter female.
        Also, why keep questioning these kids? They either remember or they don’t. A lot has happened since their mother passed away. What can they say that is factual they they haven’t already said? Maybe their dad did put thoughts in their heads maybe he didn’t, there is no way of figuring that out now.
        If I were to be on the jury and went with the facts I would have to vote not guilty, if I went with my emotions it would be different. That isn’t the way our justice system works. Was the evidence there 8 years ago? Maybe, no one knows. If so many people dropped the ball.
        There are no winners in this. It is costing tax payers a lot of money to take this case back to trial. The facts are not there and they won’t be there in May. I wish the judge would have asked the jury to keep trying to come up with a verdict. Don’t most judges at least try to get the jury to agree at least once?

      • quincygirl

        I am saying just question Lincoln on his mom’s arms. He said her arm was broken as he told the Detective 2 days after her death and I quote “My mom died in the afternoon and she broke her arm, and she held it like this….” The detective did no further questioning, didn’t ask HOW she held her arm, or where he seen her. I would ask if he seen her in bed, or if she was standing holding it a certain way. He dismissed him on his merry way. I believe he seen her that morning already in rigor with her arms which he believed were broken in the eyes of a 7yr old. There is a lot to that 7 yr old… he gave the most honest answers I believe. And he was dismissed quickly and not followed up on.

      • tamaratattles

        Tara, you reckon this city is going to shell out for Baden a second time? If I lived there, that would piss me off.

  64. Spilledperfume

    Maybe we should all send Curtis a Valentine day card in jail?

  65. His actions after the death speak to “consciousness of guilt” – I think this is what justaguy is speaking to – “guilty knowledge”. We only have the two day later supposed interview of the kids – that they don’t remember (and if he was buds with the investigator, may haven’t had happened at all? No notes/records etc). Not mountainous but worth noting.

    I’m still reading up on this Gypsy Blancharde case mentioned upthread. Truly is WILD.

    • quincygirl

      I think the interview happened, I just don’t know why it wasnt taped? You treat everything like it’s the worse.. homicide, suicide and dismiss it if it isnt. This next trial, interview the kids more… talk to Lincoln about more details. He is the one the said his mom died in the afternoon and she broke her arm, and then the Det. dismissed him. No further questions after that? I believe that kid saw his mom laying in that bed that morning and saw her arms and thought they were broken. And “Det Fuhrman” didn’t bother pressing the issue. The other brother said he never saw Curtis walk his mom up the steps… dad told him that! Umm. I believe those kids didn’t lie, they truly wanted to believe they saw their Mom on her last morning alive and Curtis helped them orchastrate the idea she was. By confusing Monday for Tuesday. Put wife#2 on stand.. put former coworkers on the stand! Put the school employees on stand.

      • TAMARA

        What is the purpose of putting these people on the stand exactly? Obviously the defense, prosecution,and the judge are a lot smarter than us and know that calling these people won’t do anything for the case.
        You have no idea how long the officer interviewed the child or what follow up questions he had for the others regarding this child’s statement.
        Where is the evidence?. I understand you believe he did it but without evidence you can’t convict someone. You are talking about someone’s life! I hope you are never put on a jury panel because you’d obviously make a decision based off of emotions.

      • quincygirl

        The Detective was cross examined when I was there in court. He said he didn’t follow up on any questions when Lincoln made the comment about his mom’s broken arm. Parkinson asked him did you ask him what he meant by it, did you ask him how she carrying it since he said ” she was carrying it like this…”? And Detective Baird said “No”. He finished the interviewed then and sent him back upstairs. Baird got nailed on the stand for that. You keep saying I am talking with emotions, It is emotional but you are attacking me personally by telling me I wasn’t there and my comments are changing. I have been very consistent. I have heard hours and hours of testimony by being there in the courtroom. Comments have been made to me that I have merely tried to explain what was said in the courtroom and then have then told “that didn’t happen”. Hearing the testimony and seeing it in a blog, is different. Seeing the pictures and trying to describe them is hard. The room was in disarray, pillows at the foot of the bed on a couch.. where it looked like he slept even thought he “thinks” he slept in bed with her. I think he smothered her, left the pillow over her, rigor set in and when he removed the pillow he couldn’t move her arms down. Then the pacing began that the witness testified to. And he panicked. I think Lincoln walked in and peeked in on his mom and saw her arms and assumed her arms were broken as he told the Detective. Then the timeline became sketchy, he did a little convincing that the kids did see their mom alive Tuesday morning and not Monday Morning.

  66. Justa Guy

    The crime scene changed (was disturbed as they said at trial iirc) because the object holding her arms up was gone. The drawing on Beard’s FB page shows them, it’s difficult to place something to hold both her arms in that position and still look normal. But a pillow over her head makes a perfect fit. In any case, Curtis claimed that’s just how they were, which can’t be true.

    Defense never came up with an alternative, even their pathologist said only with electrocution or seizure, and it was neither. So there was an object there, Curtis lied about it to police, and he lied about the timing. The rest of the supportive evidence is “the body of evidence” that gives adequate proof for the only plausible cause of death with arms up, the only reason for him lying. They couldn’t even fabricate an implausible alibi.

    You keep saying that they don’t have an autopsy so they don’t have enough evidence. But from photos and statements, they can see many things about rigor and lividity to get a decent idea on timing. Can fatty liver kill her minutes after she talked to her kids? Can it push her arms up?

    The cops observed at least early rigor, and they have some training and made notes. If the kids were really talking to Mom that morning, could she really just up and die ten minutes later, and then the impossible even per the defense pathologist, rigor sets in 30 minutes after that? The defense depends on emotional testimony of the boys … emotion versus science, as the 48 Hours woman put it. They never made a case that she died naturally in the night and he forgot he moved the pillow, but counted on the kids to persuade over science.

    The dog walker before 6am saw someone pacing, had to be Curtis. Curtis wouldn’t testify and remembered nothing when arrested, and saying nothing is probably the best council if arrested, guilty or not. But did that conflict with what he stated at the time? idk Forensics seem solid that she was already deceased, which he knew, but he woke up to the rigor which he didn’t anticipate. He made a mistake, pace pace pace. He “should have” just left her there and found her when he came home later, but maybe the young boy found her before he got back.

    It was Tuesday, several have suggested the kids (two days later) thought back to Monday. He may have not coached them to lie, but convinced them. “It’s very important you remember talking to your Mom that day”, whatever, the investigator gave him two days to do it. The boys were seven and eight.

    Equally strange is that the investigator didn’t immediately question the kids, since they were the only witnesses other than the one potential murderer. In any case, all they really had was the (copied?) notes of the interviews, not taped. It a dominant Dad told them what they saw under such trauma, they would probably believe that is what they saw, for the trial ten years later. No one blames the kids, but the truth will set them free. Living with a murderer and being infected by that pathology (under hypothetical that he is indeed guilty, just my opinion) can only extend the damage, imo. The daughter seems to have accepted a different “truth”, which in theory is much healthier.

    When I read about this at some other blog when he was first arrested, they were curious what smoking gun could have been found that was not noticed. It now indeed seems odd, that none of the professionals found it out of place, rigor setting arms in air, that doesn’t happen. This may be why the sheriff attended the trial and said he felt his department was also on trial. They basically pleaded incompetence.

    At that blog there was also talk of potential suicide, and some friend chimed in there was no way she would have left her kids, and how much she loved them. But another conspiracy theory, perhaps Curtis convinced a friend investigator it was suicide, so the friend was willing to help make it look like a normal death, and ignore the arms thing. That would at least make more sense than getting a friend to cover up a murder, but I don’t know where the suicide rumors came from.

    Incompetence seems more likely, but who knows? In many cities, murders surely get covered up for VIPs. The general issue of white collar “gangs” routinely committing felonies is my concern, and the country turning even more that direction, not less. Illinois has one governor in jail now, he’s not the first to serve time. People with such pathology need to serve the time, not be an example of “we know the right people, and we can get away with murder, so don’t get in our way”.

    The whole public display of prayer thing seems “icky” to me as well, and the assertions of how well he functions in society, as evidence of innocence. Some bigger cities are run by very corrupt men and women, that mingle comfortably in high society. And too often the “commoners” clamor to get close to them, get in with them. It becomes a hotbed of white collar “gangster” families, and nobody wants to see the actual crimes, or they brush them away as inconsequential. Powerful friends that can “make things go away” drives us toward fascism, and those that don’t corruptly use the levers of power get crushed. If that is why Lovelace was not investigated thoroughly at the time, it really needs to be made right, or we move closer to chaos.

    I wonder if he can take a plea deal now. Five or ten years for manslaughter, he still has a life. He may be stuck with a public defender next time. On the other hand, if he can get one or two more hung juries with at least one emotional person believing the sweet boys, he may go free.

    • quincygirl

      Perfect!!!

    • tamaratattles

      “adequate proof for the only plausible cause of death with arms up, the only reason for him lying.” This seems to me to be exactly what the prosecution failed to prove.

      “Can fatty liver kill her minutes after she talked to her kids? Can it push her arms up?” Of course not. And this is what the defense needs to either explain or remove from their case. What exactly is the point of mentioning the fatty liver? Because clearly if doesn’t make sense to you. Whatever they are trying to say about the fatty liver they need to show how it might have contributed to her death. You seem to follow the case closely and don’t see their point, so they either need to have a point are stop talking about the fatty liver. If her alcoholism or bulimia contributed to her cause of death they need to prove that. Unfortunately, even if it did, their hands are tied in the same way as the prosecutions due to the lack of autopsy.

      “The cops observed at least early rigor, and they have some training and made notes. If the kids were really talking to Mom that morning, could she really just up and die ten minutes later, and then the impossible even per the defense pathologist, rigor sets in 30 minutes after that?” Here is the interesting thing about the timeline in my post. It basically stops when the coroner pronounces Cory dead. When did they take the photos? How long was the body in the house? What time did the medics touch her body and say it was cool? Hopefully the timeline continued on in court. This photo of the body seems to be the biggest piece of evidence in the case. What time was it take? Where was it taken?

      “The dog walker before 6am saw someone pacing, had to be Curtis.” Who is this dog walker. Does he know the second wife? How old is he? Do you remember what time you walked your dog 8 years ago? Have you ever stood outside a neighbors house and stared in their bedroom window and watched them move around the room?

      Could the testimony of the kids have been influenced? Sure. Especially the court testimony. Sure would be nice to have the documents that transcribed what they said two days after the death. But we don’t have that. We have sworn testimony of three kids. That’s what we have. Jurors are free to ignore that testimony if they don’t find it believable. Some will, some won’t. Whether it’s true or not, (and I think it is. Kids don’t confuse Valentines Day, and the excitement of getting their goodies together for school, with a random Monday in my opinion) But either way, that testimony helps the defense.

      “Equally strange is that the investigator didn’t immediately question the kids, since they were the only witnesses other than the one potential murderer.” Or it is not strange at all if they felt there was no murder committed based on what they saw at the scene.

      Which brings us to the vast cover up for powerful people. Which I will leave alone and choose to believe that the officers on the scene followed procedure.

      The prosecutor didn’t even go for any lessor charges for the jurors to debate. Nope, it’s first degree murder or nothing. That’s really shitty lawyering giving the weaknesses in their case. I’m sure they are regretting that about now. To me that means a plea deal was likely never on the table, but who knows with this case.

      I think no matter who is on the jury there will be someone on it who believes the kids.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        Jeff chose not to question a FOUR year old. He was FOUR.

      • tamaratattles

        Speaking of that, someone corrected me and said the kids were total at school and then sent back to class.

        The testimony to the jury was:

        Herkert said she spoke with Curtis Lovelace later that spring about Cory and the couple’s marriage.

        Herkert said Curtis Lovelace told her “the last 90 days of their marriage had been horrible.” Herkert said Curtis Lovelace had put the blame for the couple’s marital woes on Cory.

        Herkert said she was surprised that Curtis Lovelace took the couple’s three oldest children back to school on Feb. 14, 2006, after he brought them home to tell them about their mother’s death.”

        Make of that what you will. Link to DOB23’s reporting on that

      • tamaratattles

        From same source Curtis mentions the hands right away in his description of Cory. Doesn’t seem to be hiding anything.

        Video view: About half of a 2-hour, 10-minute interrogation of Curtis Lovelace done by Quincy police on the day of his Aug. 27, 2014 arrest was shown to the jury on Thursday afternoon.

        “I’ve not been in this situation before,” Lovelace said shortly after entering the interview room at the Quincy Police Department.

        Lovelace repeatedly said he had nothing to do with his wife’s death. He described what he saw the morning of Cory Lovelace’s death.

        “She was cold and stiff,” Lovelace said. “I recall her hands being up or something like that.”

        Lovelace told police he and his wife both had drinking problems. He later said he had not drank since December 2012 when he realized that he was an alcoholic.

        Quincy Detective Adam Gibson handled the majority of the interview.

        Gibson: “Did you have anything to do with your wife’s death?”

        Lovelace: “No.”

        Gibson: “Would it surprise you that a pathologist found that she had been suffocated?”

        Lovelace: “That would be a surprise to me, yes.”

        Gibson: “Did you suffocate Cory Lovelace?”

        Lovelace: “No, I did not. … All of this is surprising to me, shocking.”

        Curtis Lovelace was calm during the entirety of his interview. He never raised his voice and answered all questions that Gibson and fellow detective Travis Wiemelt asked him.

        Lovelace said he was confused when he first was arrested by Gibson outside his law office near the Adams County Courthouse.

        “I can tell you my first thought was concern about my current wife and that something had happened to her,” Lovelace said. “She was baking pies on North 12th.”

        That part of the interview drew an emotional response from Lovelace’s current wife, Christine Lovelace. She wept from her spot in the courtroom. Christine Lovelace has supported Curtis Lovelace throughout his case, attending every hearing.

      • quincygirl

        He walked around that twice. When he was picked up and they told him he was being indicted for the Murder of his wife his response was ” My wife died in 2006.”
        THEN he said in the actually interrogation again that he was confused because he thought they were talking about his wife, Christine who was waiting for him right then. And then Detective Gibson, said ” I don’t think you thought that by your response when you told us your wife was already dead.” It was an odd exchange. He kept saying how shocked he was was… and Det. Gibson said ” You seem pretty calm to me”. Which he most certainly did.

      • Tara

        @QG – TT responded to a post I made on Twitter, and it really made me think. I am learning a lot from reading these post, especially the ones from the local community. Thank y’all for chiming in. It is easy for me to sit on my dock with my bottle, I mean my glass of wine and comment. I can not imagine if someone I grew up with, friend or not, was a part of a case like this. It is truly sad for both families, and your entire community-town. I think it may be easier for an outsider to separate emotion vs science. I am not saying that I feel he is not guilty, I just don’t see where there are actual facts – evidence to find him guilty.

      • quincygirl

        Enjoy your glass.. I Meant Bottle!! Haha love the way you think 😉 It’s hard to describe too. We are a small community but feel bigger than what we are. I know the family. My kids know his boys. It’s sad..I wish people outside this town would get it but they don’t and they cant. I could tell stories for hours about the Lovelace family. Good too but mostly bad about him. I don’t know many about Cory, I didn’t see her much. Don’t remember her coming to sporting events of the kids at all. But you definitely knew when Curt was there. Presence was always known!!

    • Smallishtowngirl

      Suicide was the original gossip. I still don’t believe that Jeff and Curt were any more than people who knew each other. Jeff was not in our class. He was either 1 or maybe 2 years behind us. QHS had close to 1800 students at that time and housed 10th 11th and 12 grades. Our Jr High is 7th 8th and 9th. Even if their children are the same age, which I don’t have any idea about, having children the same age doesn’t automatically make you friends. And Curt had only been in the Prosecutor’s office for a year or two at her time of death. I also don’t know when Jeff became a detective. He had been an officer previuosly. If anything maybe another police department should have been brought in because I would think most officers would have had the same relationship with Curt that Jeff had. I find the speculation that Jeff covered something up a sad sidebar of this trial.

      And here’s a question for you legal eagles. Does Curt face the possibility of a court marshal if there is a guilty verdict? He is a captain in the Il National Guard.

      • tamaratattles

        That is out of my area of fake expertise, but that’s never stopped me before. I think court marshals are for things that happen while you are performing your military duties. I don’t see how that would apply especially in the National Guard. But I really don’t know the answer to that.

      • tamaratattles

        What I DO know is that the defense should have been granted a change of venue. I guess that would have cut into their Baden budget. There is no way they are going to get a verdict in this town where everyone went to the same high school. It must be tearing the town apart. Apologies from those of us who are treating this like just another case that happens to other people. We aren’t used to so many people with ties to the town being here. I actually found out about the case from someone from the town. It sucks that this is being dragged out. AGAIN. For everyone.

      • amisteree

        “This is out of my area of fake expertise” – this slays me. I may be repeating this for the next foreseeable future. I think you just made my day. However, if I plan to say it, I will probably have to leave my bed, my bedroom, my house, and actually have a conversation with someone. So….maybe not. My internet addiction will decide. xo

      • Dee

        Quincy, Smallishtowngirl, thank you for sharing.

  67. Justa Guy

    That was brought up at that other blog over a year ago, that with no lesser charge option, it can help the defense. They might be very sure, but not ready to put him away for good. Maybe it was to try to pressure a plea deal, which seems like a common tactic for zealous prosecutors (Baltimore?), to overcharge to force a plea. But it does seem like either murder one or innocent, in this case, and a plea would just be for convenience.

    I think the defense needed the fatty liver option because they need some other COD, to at least introduce doubt. Baden said his reason for asphyxiation was her arms up, and the object removed, and no other COD was reasonable.

    If there is no other reasonable COD, but asphyxiation fits exactly, and the accused lied, and the cut lip, and the rest … that can be enough, as I see it. You seem to feel they need something more absolute and direct, like from autopsy. Maybe you are correct, idk. :)

    The assumption that the cops were just doing their job … fine, as I said, I think incompetence is their defense and the most likely excuse for all the problems. But power is a corrupting force, and addicting. So some public pressure is often needed. Your blog certainly helps … thanks for that.

    • tamaratattles

      I don’t believe anything Baden says let alone hold it as credible evidence. But the jurors on the jury probably have never heard of him other than some big shotp from NYC.

      Do we have any evidence from the St Louis pathologist for the prosecution? Did the defense really offer up fatty liver as COD? I can’t see a pathologist saying that.

      As or the police force, yours is an interesting city for some public pressure for police transparency since I assume all the officers and the defendant and the deceased are white. OTOH, our police forces are vital and all living under a lot of public scrutiny at the moment. I feel like there are times for public pressure and times for understanding that they are at their core just those guys we went to high school with. I have no idea what the case is in Quincy.

      BTW for those reading along, Quincy is a really pretty city on the Mississippi river. I googled. :)

      • quincygirl

        Yes, this is our only murder case in last 2 years that all witnesses and all involved are white. We only have 1 black officer in 73 and it’s a female. Det. Gibson (the 2nd detective is very thorough and is very good) he has solved and worked through all the other cases and put those others away for over 50 years minimum. I can’t emphasize enough the rigor and the pillow being taken away. It’s almost the only solution. Our reporter interviewed a juror and she says most believed he was guilty. So there were some that believed that reasonable doubt. The town was shocked last night when the push notification came through our phones at the high school basketball game on last night’s decision . It is a town in shock. I think Det Baird waited to interview the kids as a favor to Curt, in the end..it hurt this whole case.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        We weren’t shocked in my part of town. I don’t see how you can’t see reasonable doubt. You are ready to convict someone of murder on pictures and circumstantial evidence alone.
        Maybe if I saw the pictures of her hands I would sooner be convinces of suffocation but why did police officers, EMT’s and two coroners not find it so odd at the scene in 2006?
        I think the prosecution should have went the electrocution route …..

      • quincygirl

        Circumstantial is allowed. They cremated her. All we have are pictures. They didn’t dig deep enough, or didn’t ask the right questions…That I have seen. As I sat in the court room, I would sit there and think, why aren’t they asking this? Or that? That’s important! Thry did good with what they had, but they could have dug deeper is what I have noticed. Go for the jugular like they do in all other murder cases. Why is this one so different ? His position in the SA office? National Guard? School Board? Hard telling…

  68. Justa Guy

    I don’t know these guys, but it doesn’t work like that … “will you help me cover up a murder?”

    It is more like “professional courtesy”, like “the kids are really upset, could you wait a couple days to talk to them?” Or he drops hints that it may have been suicide, and it would be bad for the kids to find that out, “can we just skip the …? So they have an innocent reason to not pursue autopsy or regular investigation. Normally no, but for a VIP acquaintance? That is why they have procedures to follow.

    In 90% of cases, it may actually be helpful to do the favors to avoid the messiness. But one lawyer calls another to ask a favor for a wealthy old friend and client, a little friendly trash talk of the other guys non-VIP client, they owe each other some favors … that happens a LOT. It’s the good old boy network, because mostly, they are good. But the forgotten man is the one that gets walked on out of sight, that wasn’t a member of “the club”. It’s no official criminal blood oath or anything (I hope).

    I knew a connected politician/lawyer like that, very nice man, did favors, gave to causes, built things. He’ll probably die in prison. So maybe I’m a little jaundiced about how the doing little “favors” thing really works. Come to think of it, the old mayor of that town is in prison now too. sheesh. It happens.

    It was mentioned earlier here in comments, how maybe someone lost their power structure, and what should have been handled long ago was now being confronted. If this case doesn’t go to trial, it would have been as invisible as all the other “little favors” that left victims behind. But usually not murder.

    • tamaratattles

      The good ole boy network is everywhere and police, politics, etc are only different in the sense it’s worse. It needs to be dealt with but I think it will probably just have to die out over time. I don’t have any better ideas on how to fix it.

      I am not making the leap with you that if all that did come into play, that makes it is necessary to try this case. I don’t see how justice can be served at this point. I think that if this case was tried elsewhere, there would be a not guilty verdict. Which doesn’t mean the guy is innocent. That’s something that will probably never be known.

  69. Justa Guy

    ” Did the defense really offer up fatty liver as COD? I can’t see a pathologist saying that. ”

    As you noted, they talked about it. As I noted, I think they just needed to introduce doubt, even though that doubt doesn’t fit, nor do any others.

    Same when they asked about the arms up, “could a rolled up comforter cause that?” But that didn’t make sense, they’re just adding confusion for the jurors. Confuse on the science, prop the kids up in the front row.

    They do need a change of venue, for the prosecution. Any juror would be known and have to live in town, as the ones that sent the kid’s dad away. Especially now after the coverage of the trial.

    • Smallishtowngirl

      I don’t understand why the fatty liver COD is a problem. Fatty liver can be reversable yes, but there are also papers aligning it with sudden death.

      • quincygirl

        I don’t doubt that sudden death could have been caused by her alcoholism. However the hands and her rigor in that position don’t line up. Especially since Curtis said he didn’t move anything he just walked in and found her that way? Yep.. don’t believe it. Sudden death I could have bought. Not the hands in that position.

      • Justa Guy

        I Googled it but didn’t go into detail. It seems if it was getting to that stage, it would have displayed other serious symptoms first, but she hadn’t been to a doctor even. I don’t know that “sudden death” means, fine and talking to kids and husband, then ten minutes later out like a light. And it doesn’t explain the arms up, the timing, and the lies. That’s the problem.

        The “sudden death” of murder hours earlier explains it all. They are just blowing smoke, and that tactic itself points to guilt, imo.

        There are probably 20 blatant inconsistencies with the alibi stories. I want to see the interview with the juror after the trial … will look around.

    • Smallishtowngirl

      Fatty liver has been implicated in sudden death. Yes it is reversible but if you don’t know you have it…..

  70. Justa Guy

    ““She was cold and stiff,” Lovelace said. “I recall her hands being up or something like that.””

    That makes the timeline even shorter, from when defense said the kids saw her, to when Curtis saw her. Rigor already started.

    He can’t hide that, so he remarked on it. “look how strange her hands are”. It IS hiding that he moved the pillow, by acting like “it just happened like that”. He had hours to think ab out it, pace pace pace.

    The dog walker said that was routine to walk early, it would have been dark. Light in house would be like a spotlight. He might well remember since he knew she died that day, probably saw the police and firetruck arrive even. No reason to come forward then.

  71. Tara

    I think I have read all 219 post here and I don’t recall reading anything about this but umm wine. Lord please forgive me…
    Was there a pillow found that could have been used to smoother her with? It seems there would have been something on it, maybe? Was there a pillow missing?

    • quincygirl

      Don’t know. They didn’t check for it at the time. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. There were pillow at the foot of the bed on a couch where I believe he slept even though he said he “thinks” he slept in bed with her. Now, if you wife dies.. wouldn’t you remember if you spent her last night sleeping next to her??

      • Tara

        His actions are odd, as are his responses to questioning. It does seem he is guilty unfortunately the evidence does not show me that he did it.The positioning of her hands and the rigor are things that obviously need to be explained but I don’t feel either side can. Its on the prosecution to prove without reasonable doubt. If they could not do it this time, how can they in May? There is no evidence, plus she was cremated.
        Peronally, I feel a lot of people screwed this investigation up.

      • quincygirl

        See.. I’m different, I feel like it was explained. The pillow over her face for hours caused it, the cop just didn’t see it nor did he want to. He only wanted to see it as Natural causes. (IMO) Less work I am sure. It why he closed the the case BEFORE the coroner’s inquest was even done. Curt was “satisfied” with that oh I bet he was!

      • tamaratattles

        @ QG You have opinions based on MORE EMOTION THAN ANYONE IN THESE COMMENTS AND PROBABLY ALL THE ACTUAL FAMILY PUT TOGETHER. For you, the officer’s opinion is suspect because it doesn’t match yours. The officer is lazy because his opinion doesn’t match yours.

        You on the other hand were not there when the case was investigated and only know a tiny bit of the picture. But you’re ready to hang to defendant and half the police department as well. What was that thing you keep saying about emotion and logic?

      • quincygirl

        My stories about her arms never changed. I always said above her head. I just was more specific on exactly where. One by her face, one by her chest.. in air above her head. As far as the emotions and logic quote, again.. That’s not me. You are quoting Tara. Sorry.

      • Tara

        Also, if he did smoother her to death, wouldn’t her hands have fallen once she was dead? If it was an object, it seems that it would have to be something that held her arms up. Not something just on top.

      • quincygirl

        Her hands were on top of the pillow as she was smothered.. possibly in a defensive position. Then she passed…. and he slipped the pillow out hours later after rigor kicked in.

      • Tara

        Thank you for explaining that. I kept picturing her trying to push the pillow away.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        But her hands are over her shoulders. Why would you choose to smother someone with a pillow longways?

      • quincygirl

        One was near her face/head and the other one was by her chest/shoulders. I don’t know if there is any way of knowing how the pillow was placed. There was redness around her mouth too and a cut above her lip and her lips were bluish purple in the pic.

      • tamaratattles

        There was no redness around her mouth or a cut above her lip and please stop talking about the picture when you clearly only say someone draw a picture of a photograph.

        The only injury to her mouth was a pressure injury inside her lip. A small bruise. The pathologist said that if she had been smothered there would have been bruising consistent with a hand over the nose or mouth. THERE WAS NOT.

      • quincygirl

        There was a cut above her lip, inside and out. There was redness around her mouth. Even the original pathologist made note of it. I looked at the pictures, everybody looked at them. Her eyes were open. Her lips were blue. With my own eyes, I looked at the pictures because I was there. All the pathologists talked about the abrasion. Dr. Teas even thought she did it by waxing when she was down with the flu for 3 days. That’s the pathologist the defense hired. I was there, Not everyday. But I was there multiple times .
        I have followed it closely. Not just the last 2 days of trial. Every tweet and every update. I was there during closing statements and the pictures were shown again. Same ones. Same marks.

      • tamaratattles

        So then you know that the PROSECUTION wanted Dr. Teas first and he told them that THERE WAS NO HOMICIDE so the defense called him for their side? Then the prosecution when huntin’ for pathologist and ended up with the one that celebrities accused of murder hire to defend themselves.

      • quincygirl

        Yes, I was there that day when they discussed it. And as far as the pictures. There are no cameras allowed in our courtroom, it’s why I directed people to the sketch artist to get a feel of how her arms were found. Considering, he did a good job. But still hard to get a feel of it. I don’t mean to come off as dramatic in this. But I do know a lot of the insides that I can’t speak about. Because it wasn’t brought up. I have touched on some here. I tried to be rational until I was being told I was lying about things and I wasnt. I didn’t miss a lot about this case. I was very in tune with it. Yes the pathologists were frustrating… all of them. Prosecutions and defenses sides for that matter. But it was botched from the beginning and in the end you have a family with no mother, which had torn them apart, and a smug man who is getting away with murder.

    • Smallishtowngirl

      Even if he lied and did remove a pillow how does that prove he smothered her? Suspicious yes. But I would think even a lazy pathologist would have noted in her autopsy report whether smothering was a possibility. She was found in bed seems like it would be something you would look for. As I said before, should have sent with electrocution. Pathologist probably wasn’t looking for those markers.

      • Tara

        I am far from an expert at anything. That isn’t completely true but I probably should not discuss that here. To my question- would they have been able to see electrocution evidence in the few slides they have?
        Small, I agree with you. I don’t feel the evidence proves without reasonable doubt.

      • quincygirl

        She wasn’t electrocuted. They ruled that out.

      • tamaratattles

        Only if her liver were electrocuted. :) There was a report by the coroner’s office that listed the condition of her body, so external tests like blood, eye fluid, urine, etc. and an photo of the body on the bed. Which unless you were in the courtroom on the front row you have only seen a very rough drawing of.

        The same person who said she wasn’t electrocuted also said she wasn’t murdered.

      • quincy is my home

        Something at one point was propping her arms up. There is no question in mind, however, what that might have been is only conjecture at this point. Upon death the body gets very relaxed and can come to rest in unusual positions. The arms in the air had to have been supported by something. Believe-ability right now is in the toilet as to anything Curtis might have to say. I am not sure I would have any confidence in the first QPD investigation and maybe not even the most recent. Unfortunately I question both investigator’s motivations and agendas. In my opinion there is more than one elephant in this room.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        So who ruled out electrocution? The original autopsy pathologist or those who looked at pictures and two slides of the liver?
        I suppose if you can diagnose suffocation by pictures it is also possible to say electrocution didn’t take place. If it was in the original report why believe one thing she says but not the other?

      • quincygirl

        One of the pathologists said they have only seen 2 cases out of 5000 where the hands where in the air like this, electrocution and seizure. And they asked, so was she electrocuted? And they said.. “No, no evidence in that”. Nor was it a seizure either.

      • tamaratattles

        That was the defense witness on cross by the prosecution. I’m glad you believe him. He says there is nothing to indicate she was murdered as well. So not murdered, no seizure and no electrocution. No case. Glad to finally see you get it, QG!

      • tamaratattles

        How the hell do you get electrocuted while lying in bed with no burns on the body? Y’all are away out in left field. Both of you. The electrocution and seizure questions were SMARTASS questions by the prosecutor to the DEFENSE PATHOLOGIST who simply answered, “No” when asked if Cory was killed in the manner in which the other people he had seen with hands in that position were.

        This conversation is not really at the level of most that we have because we usually have all seen the same testimony. In this case we don’t even have a transcript. We have one or two reporters who wrote ten or twelve sentences a day about what they felt were the highlights. Some of those sentences are things like “The officer was asked if he was friends with the defendant, and some other stuff.” And no sentences what the officer said when asked if he was a friend of the defendant. Instead, we have someone with a shit ton of emotions running in here as if she sat through the whole trial and has all the answers figured out. Unfortunately, she didn’t sit through the trial and her comments often do not match up to the small bit of information that was printed.

        So these comments are as much of a clusterfuck as the actual proceedings.

      • quincygirl

        Really? I wasn’t there? And the pathologist was the one that brought up the electrocution from comparing it to other cases and he said that it wasnt that after pausing… and another blogger, which was NOT ME Brought it up. I was simply stating what was said IN the trial. Because I was there.

      • Smallishtowngirl

        That’s my point. TT

  72. tamaratattles

    I know smallish one, :) You and JustaGuy are part of the few without their skirt over their heads. Well I don’t think JustAGuy wears a skirt, but you know what I mean. I’d like to spread some of your calm logic all around. And you two are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to view but are able to talk without all the irrational drama. I’m losing patience. I also have a sinus thing going on, I think there is supposed to be a good Lifetime movie here at 8 in the real world. :) I may fall asleep watching it and try again tomorrow.

    • tamaratattles

      Dear God, the Lifetime premiere tonight is Charles Manson. I was looking to get AWAY from trial news.

      I think I’ll just binge some Shameless episodes.

  73. Justa Guy

    Here is one juror that was interviewed. I think they should trust what they believe, but I’m not clear what instruction they may have been given, about exactly what had to be proven.

    “”I would have found him guilty,” Koontz said late Friday night.

    She said many of her fellow jurors felt the same way.

    “Most everyone felt he was guilty,” Koontz said. “But some people, even though they felt he was guilty, they believed there wasn’t enough to support that and they wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if they chose guilty.” ”

    http://www.whig.com/article/20160206/ARTICLE/302069981?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_WhigNews

    • tamaratattles

      That last paragraph is what we call reasonable doubt. I’m grateful we have dedicated jurors that kept trying and did the work. In the end, things worked out just like they are supposed to.

      • Justa Guy

        True, and why they need a unanimous decision. It seems one or two did not feel he was guilty, or not as convinced as “most others”. And of the “most others” some felt there was not enough. So it wasn’t like just one didn’t have the nerve.

        They really need a change of venue, so jurors are not so invested in a local outcome. And having his wife and boys on the front row exerts influence, but I guess that is allowed, or at least the judge can decide, I’m not sure.

      • tamaratattles

        Yeah, the crying families are in all the court rooms with all of these cases. What surprised me is the judges most places drag the jurors back in by the hair where they have to see those families and Allen Charge them. I was surprised that happened privately in Quincy. Simply because I’ve never heard of it done that way. Not because it makes a difference. In all the cases I’ve watched over the years, I don’t recall a single time when the Allen Charge worked. I think it just makes everyone involved feel like they tried absolutely everything they could to get a verdict.

      • Josie

        Thank you TT for covering this case. Also, thanks for your input countering some of the comments. There are some who seem as though they are salivating for a guilty verdict for a case that to me does not seem clear cut. I live in NY and have no connection to this case.

        Why was this case even brought up 8 years later? Was someone recently appointed and needing a big win to run for higher political office?

        Baden is not credible and I dont believe asphyxiation is either. You would have fought to breathe. Broken blood vessels and harm to the body that would have clearly been seen even to the naked eye. Sad and fascinating case. How many times can they try him until they get the verdict they want?

      • Dancemom

        You rock TT. Agree with so much that you are posting.

    • Smallishtowngirl

      I wonder if another juror will come forward and counter some of her observations. Meanwhile this is further clouding the jury pool. My own father who up until today thought it was a total waste of taxpayers dollars now is convinced that there must have been something unreported that we didn’t hear. There could have been but with so much coverage I can’t seem to think what it was besides emotion.
      Another interesting tidbit. The special prosecutor chosen for this trial recently successfully won a case in which it was pertinent to invalidate autopsy findings made by the same pathologist who performed the original autopsy on Cori.

  74. Justa Guy

    A couple reports called it a “Primm Instruction”, which seemed like the same as the Allen Charge. But maybe it is a little different in IL, I don’t know.

    Also odd that usually the crying family is seeking guilty, in this case it was “don’t take our Dad away”. Except for the daughter maybe, and her grandmother was probably never there. But they did spend time on the daughter interview. Emotions ran high, it would seem.

    • tamaratattles

      I read the Primm and it was the Allen but the Primm I thought was for civil.

      I’m not sure if I mentioned that Baden is usually trying to get wealthy celebrities off in murder trials. He done way more defense than prosecution work. For trial watchers, whatever side he is on is generally the wrong one.

      • Josie

        “Whatever side he is on is generally the wrong one.” lol funny observation. True. He was a defense witness for OJ and Phil Spector.

      • Tara

        Baden is use to getting paid the big bucks obviously. To your earlier question TT- yes, I would be pissed if my tax dollars were going to recall him. There is no telling what they are paying him.

        The juror member that was interviewed, his words can be taken different ways. Yes, he stated that many on jury thought he was guilty, but would they have voted for a guilty verdict? I feel that he probably is, but you can’t convict on “probably”. Meaning, I would have voted not guilty.
        Someone posted earlier that if they were on the defense team they would have asked the judge to dismiss the case. I agree, there is no evidence. Yes, all his actions seem to be that of someone who is guilty but everyone reacts differently to circumstances.

        On a different note- I was on a date last night. He looked me up on social networking and found that I follow TT. He is now hooked! :)
        Happy Sunday all.

      • Thank you, TT. Baden is well past his “use by” date. Last night I stopped reading because I thought if I read “I seen” one more time, I was going to be sent to WLS for making a “Grammar Nazi” post. QG: In the English language, “I seen” is never correct. If you use “seen,” you must use a “helping verb” – have, had, might have, could have, for example – basic fourth-grade grammar. Don’t want to use a “helping verb?” Please just say, “I saw.” I cannot help myself. (Do not question TT’s spelling or grammar; she is doing 37 things at once. Be assured she knows the correct form.)

      • quincygirl

        I also apologize for my horrible grammar, when I get personally attacked.. I didn’t care what I sounded like. Yes I know I was misusing Saw and seen… who cares? I wasn’t correcting everyone else for misquoting or saying the wrong things. I am human and I screw up. My grammar was not a priority at the time. At that time, I was the only one in the courtroom and was reporting what was being said and I was being told I wasn’t there. I was being told I was saying things that wasnt said.. which is NOT the case. And I was told I was changing the story and I most certainly wasnt. My story or the details never changed. Just because I think a man is guilty does not make my opinion wrong either. It’s a blog, with different views and different insights, but we shouldn’t attack anyone. I have apologized 3 times. I have never said anything bad to anyone here, I don’t get why my “grammar” should make someone speak to others like that.

      • Allison

        It just makes posts hard to read and almost less credible when using poor grammar. “I seen” is common, I hear it all the time but no less cringeworthy. Just my opinion. Anyhoo-reading all these posts, I’m not too sure what I think regarding his guilt or innocence-hes definitely a tool who makes poor decisions. The position of her arms is what gets me.

    • quincygirl

      Cory’s mom and Corys Aunt was there everyday, along with their extended family.(Corys cousins etc) They had friends and family supporting them also. Christine and the boys were in the front row and Curts mom and dad usually sat in the 3rd or 4th row along with some of his extended family. Christines family and friends took up the first 2 rows usually on Curt side. Curts mom never could get any closer, she tried but was always pushed further back. Lyndsay was only there the day she testified, and that is it. She did a great interview about moving on with the local reporter. Brave girl at 22.

  75. Justa Guy

    Just to give an outside view on smothering, this says it can be done with a pillow without leaving marks, as opposed to a hand over the mouth and nose. Then it says this.

    “Homicidal smothering is extremely difficult to detect. The autopsy may reveal asphyxia, but there may not be any corroborative medical evidence to prove foul play. The pathological changes must be interpreted keeping in view the medical history of the deceased, the scene of death, and the specific circumstances surrounding the death.”

    http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/suffocation-smothering

    But it is pretty bad that there can be such disagreement from pathologists. Seems the science of the basics should be more firm. A smart and strong lawyer is going to be careful about leaving signs if he commits murder, but the prosecution still has to convince the jury.

  76. usmc

    No on the court marshal. ..

  77. Dee

    Thinking.about children not remembering two days after mother died. There are many things I don’t remember from my childhood. Trauma of losing their Mom could have blocked it. By now they have been coached to say whatever the Dad wanted them to say. By now they probably think it’s true. The oldest daughter not speaking to her Dad speaks volumes to me anyway. She was older, could remember inconsistent statements or changing stories. This blog is #1 when I typed Lovelace Beard looking for drawings, could not find via the link k on here

    • tamaratattles

      I agree Dee, I had a very exciting and unusual childhood and I don’t remember much of it. And what I do remember, my brother who is ten years older than me remembers things A LOT differently. It could be a family trait. My parents traveled a lot in their retirement years. When mother would give her trip report she would completely discount daddy’s version. It was like they were on two different vacations. Memory is a weird thing. That is why I don’t put much stock in their 2016 recollections, but I do believe the police report from two days after the death and totally understand why they don’t remember it.

  78. tamaratattles

    WE HAVE NEW INFORMATION ABOUT THE JURY VOTES AND MORE. PLUS A NICE CLEAN COMMENT SECTION TO ARGUE IN! :)

    http://s17948.p20.sites.pressdns.com/2016/02/08/sidebar-update-in-the-lovelace-case-the-jury-was-spilt-down-the-middle/

  79. Kathy Shankland

    I’m originally from quincy, but do not know the family. Had the 6am siting of the defendant pacing in his room been brought up, I’d think that would cast some doubt on the morning time of death. It was mentioned that they were drinkers and that they argued alot and one of the pathologists said there should be more than once cut on her mouth if it was a deensive wound, but I think if she was drunk, and bulimic weak, would it take that much pressure to smoother her? And the science of Rigor mortis really can’t be argued. There is way too many dead bodies in the course of life to back that up. So what about what the kids said? How easy would it have been to have a conversation with your kids while driving to school and saying something like..” Mommy said be sure to study hard..or eat your lunch” to put her in the present tense and make those kids believe they saw her? I’d do regression hypnosis. They’d find none of those kids actually saw their mom. Those thoughts were planted by him. Remember, he’s an arogant attorney…he knows what he needs to get off..and he’s arrogant enough to use his kids to do it. Just my opinion. But I say he’s guilty!

    • quincygirl

      Yes… you have nailed it. The witness at 6am is crucial. And the 3rd wife…just wow. She is loving her 15 minutes of fame. Interviews all week. When she adopted the boys she changed their middle names because the had names of Corys family name. Really? Where is that respect? Adoption or not, they are not your children. Stop. The pathologist said the suffocation happened with no fight, no struggle. She was passed out. I agree with how he manipulated their Mommy talk too to convince them they did see their mom. Make her present!! Mom was suppose to bring treats that day too but never showed up.

      • Tara

        I have so missed chatting about this case- I need a life! (Actually I have a very active social life. Note to self- pick up A.D.D. rx at drug store:)
        Ok Q.G- Hi girl!! I hope you are well. My question(s)- if no struggle why were her hands in the odd position? I thought they said that was proof her battling for air (maybe that was a thought that came up here on TT or I could have possibly made it up in my head and believe it to be true. ) The same question remove arms and add the cut lip.
        Also, I found it interesting that it was Cory’s mom who asked for her to be cremated. (48 Hours)
        BtW- Quincy is a beautiful town.

      • quincygirl

        The theory is because he suffocated her while she was asleep.. left the pillow there, for hours then she died. When he removed the pillow rigor set in. Hence the fact, her arms were found in “unnatural” state. Maybe that’s why the witness testified he saw him pacing at 6am. He panicked because he couldnt move her arms back down. ?
        Yes, Quincy is beautiful!
        And NOW some private detective is asking for money on generosity.con to fund Curtis’ new cousel. But the facts he has on there isn’t correct unfortunately. Grr

      • tamaratattles

        What on earth makes his facts any less reliable than yours?

        Check out this criminal investigators accounting of what happened. It’s the defenses version and has interesting information on wife #2. Also it outlines the extensive autopsy shopping that the PROSECUTION did. I’ve never seen a prosecution case in my life where they are the ones bringing in people who have never seen the body to disagree with two or three of the first autopsies (or reviews) they solicited. Some is VERY wrong with this prosecution.

        This case is very odd in so many ways.

        https://www.generosity.com/sports-fundraising/fighting-illini-fans-help-us-free-curtis-lovelace–2

      • Tara

        So the one person who actually touched Cory (outside of family) stated she was warm. How can they go with the testimony of someone that just saw pictures and slides?
        TT, you said the second wife was up to something, and you were clearly correct.
        Curtis did a lot of questionable things, but none of them lead to this.
        Thank you for providing the link, it is very interesting.

  80. quincygirl

    It was a mouse and not a “rat” as the 2nd wife’s friends daughter just answered on twitter a few minutes ago. And it was “unfounded”. I have been cautious about my comments because of the comments afterwards, so here are the FACTS.
    The cop at the scene DID say she was warm to the touch as stated.

    BUT as stated and testified ….by the paramedic and firefighter they contradict him.

    Here is from the trial…(courtesy of Don Obrien)

    Bill Ballard, an Adams County paramedic, said Cory Lovelace’s head was “cool” but that her torso was “warm to the touch.”

    Cole Miller, a Quincy firefighter, testified that Cory Lovelace’s neck was “cool” and her wrist was much colder.”

    They explained that the amount of blankets (comforters) at her waist would explain the torso being warmer. But that she WAS cold to the touch.

  81. Peggy Hannaman Jones

    Good Morning everyone, today is March 19th, and I have taken the time to read 80% of the post on this site. I to have been touched by this tragic story of Death, broken Family, lies and judgements!!!
    First, I must express, that judgement without evidence is shameful! So many Awful mistakes happen during this investigation; that any Jury would have called it this way. These precious children are in the middle of the awful situation. We must Pray for them!
    I don’t know if any of you have been in the presences of someone that is crossing over to the other side; meaning passing away from this Life to Heaven. But, in many cases, when one is about to leave this earth, they RAISE their arms in Praise or they reach out their arms. I have just Experienced this very situation with my precious husband. Twice before he passed, after laying completely still for Hours, and days; He RAISED his Arms in Praise position! In one case he raised his arms for a few moments, then with his Right Hand he turned the page like he was looking at a book. The second time was 2 hours 15 mins, before he passed over; he raised his arms in Praise for a moment and then clasp his hands together as if he was shaking someones hand!!!
    All who think Cory was smothered may be VERY Wrong!
    Also if Cory was an Alcoholic as it has been shown, her body could be extremely dehydrated which would cause her body to become stiff very quickly. I am not a Doctor, but when the body is severely dehydrated; your body can shut down!!! Alcohol dehydrates the body!
    Also about her temperature, before my husband passed, parts of his body were like fire; fever! Then as each organ began to shut down, the lower body became cold and his Chest and face were still warm, until the last hour before he passed. His Chest right around his heart was still warm until his last breath.
    I tell all of this because, sometimes things are not what they seem. Some of this story is so strange, why he did not call 911, the way he told his children, that cannot be explained other then; Trauma!
    Trauma can cause memory loss! Trauma can cause people to do stupid things. Do I think he is guilty!
    I am not his judge, but I do feel that some are judging him by misinformation.
    I think Cory died that morning and her precious little boy found her. I think her husband was in shock, made some very poor choices, and is paying a price for those choices. There is NO Evidence that she was murdered!
    We all need to Pray for this Family!

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