Making A Murderer: Is Steven Avery Guilty or Not?


A lot of you have been emailing me asking me to cover Making A Murderer a very popular show shown on Netflix aired as a documentary. I don’t have Netflix, nor do I need even more shows to watch on TV. I am swamped enough with the shows I do follow. But this show is a huge topic in pop culture right now, so I thought you might need a place to discuss it.

Nancy Grace has a good point about the sweat from Stephen Avery found under the hood of murder victim Teresa Halbach’s car. The defense seemed to imply some of the evidence was planted by the police. However, you can’t “plant sweat.”  This is just one of Nancy’s arguments.  She will be interviewing an ex-girlfriend of Avery’s tonight on her show (I had no idea she still had a show!)  on HLN. (Edited: I started this post yesterday. See this interview later in this post)  The girlfriend claims that she ate rat poison so that she could be hospitalized to get away from him and call police. She firmly believes he is guilty. She is allegedly still receiving threats from him while he is in prison.  However, in the documentary, she seemed to be a happy girlfriend.


Meanwhile, a lot of people do believe that Stephen Avery was framed for murder. In part because he was previously wrongly convicted of rape and cleared by DNA evidence.  In the above clip some folks argue the evidence with Dr. Drew seeming to believe Avery is guilty and others making a case for his innocence.

Here is the entire interview from HLN with the girlfriend. She is not really a credible witness for me either way.

This does look like an interesting show. It’s clear the producers wanted to make it look like the guy is wrongly in jail for murder.  Maybe he is. Maybe he isn’t. I don’t have all the information. But what I do know is that you don’t get a new trial because someone makes a movie about you.  There has to be new and compelling evidence of a miscarriage of justice, prosecutorial misconduct, tampering, or new exculpatory evidence. A bunch of Netflix fans becoming outraged is not enough.


Steven’s mother is obviously not that bright. She says that the victim is still alive AND the cops planted the bones on her property and maybe they aren’t even hers.


Filed under Entertainment News, News

81 responses to “Making A Murderer: Is Steven Avery Guilty or Not?

  1. BravoCueen

    I’ve researched as much as my conscience will allow me to because as far as I’m concerned anyone who sets their cat on fire can rot in hell, so I don’t really care. BUT, Nancy Grace is mis-stating the “sweat” finding. What was on the latch was a “transfer” of DNA not blood. It could have been put there the same way the key (and I have zero doubt the key was planted) was found in plain sight after 7 searches and found only by the police agency Avery was suing (who was not authorized to be there alone yet was). Because of the cat, my only interest is exposing bad cops (if they were). I think the case truly deserves a second look.

    • Cat

      I agree, about the cat. That stopped me, cold.

      I was going to start watching the movie this week. I’m glad now I never got to it.

      I’ll pass on this one. The scum can burn in Hell.

      Thanks for the spoiler. I mean that.

      • PiaPill

        BravoCueen & Cat,

        I absolutely agree with you all about the cat! Is it true that he doused the cat in gasoline and threw it in the fire? If so, I also think he can rot in hell! If a person can violently and sadistically torture and kill a defenseless animal, then it really isn’t a stretch that he would also abuse women! I know nothing about this case nor do I want to. Usually I would want to research a wrongful conviction case … but on this one, I think I will pass.

    • I agree. I don’t care if he’s innocent or not. At least the poor kitty cat is getting some justice.

  2. I think there is an appeal. Lot of unanswered questions, but I am in the he’s innocent section. My theory is, she was murdered by either or both her ex boyfriend and her male room mate and they framed Avery.

    • bravocueen

      Nobody could explain why the brother and ex boyfriend accessed her email and deleted messages. There were so many things in this that make me believe I could never have voted guilty. I would be a prosecutor’s nightmare.

      • k-slay

        they even said 7 people started with a not guilty vote.. clearly they were afraid to keep that vote, something happened in there. Also, finding out now that one of the jurors was the father of a Manitowoc County Sheriff’s deputy. Like you said, there are so many questions and the law is BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

      • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

        Exactly. I don’t know if he’s guilty or not, but there seemed to me to be reasonable doubt. There’s no doubt in my mind police planted evidence, it was exceedingly obvious they had done so. This doesn’t mean he’s not guilty though. I bet police do this all. the. time. – plant evidence on a suspect they “know” is guilty to seal the deal.

      • Swizzle

        I want to know why her brother talked about her in the past tense and said they family has to make peace and move on or something like that even before she was discovered dead. That was weird.

      • Zazu

        a friend of mine’s wife was murdered in an abduction, and he knew that night that she was dead and not coming back as she wouldn’t have left her child at daycare and disappeared. I think people know sometimes but hold out hope that somehow their loved one is alive.

      • swizzle

        I guess in today’s world if a young woman went missing, I’d assume sex trafficking, not death. But I probably watch too many Lifetime movies.

  3. Cat

    I haven’t checked into this one. I just started following the Carnation Murders on Facebook. I can only handle one trial at a time.

    Besides, if there is animal abuse involved, I can’t deal with that. Too close to home.

  4. k-slay

    100% framed. The blood evidence SEAL was ripped through with a hole the size of a needle on the top of the blood tube, and the people who took the blood said that was not there. That alone.. and the two detectives that interrogated Brendan Dassey deserve to die for what they did to that kid, along with his first “lawyer” and his investigator. I do not know how they sleep at night. The face on the cop when he realized he said the type of car it was when he shouldnt have known the type of car also was so telling. He had NO WORDS for why he knew that. Clearly he was right in front of the car, setting Steven up. This whole thing makes me sick that we live in the US and this can seriously happen to someone TWICE.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      No doubt evidence was planted HOWEVER that doesn’t mean he was not guilty. I’m still not sure either way.

      • k-slay

        The point is he did not have a fair/unbiased trial. And Brendan was coerced into that confession, he thought he was going back to school. Brendan’s case upsets me more than Steven’s.

      • Me too. What happened to that poor boy was heart breaking.

    • Dee

      I agree, he was framed. Searching a home 7 times then one of the officers that Avery was suing for first false arrest, who was not authorized to be there, finds the key in plain sight? There is too much doubt for me.

      • k-slay

        None of her DNA in his house either… the deleted voicemails issue and her pelvic bone discovered in the quarry not even close to his home. They never even investigated anyone else, and in the doc when they asked if her ex bf was on the property and her brother said he was once and the ex bf was like NO I WASN’T! was so strange, and then listening to her voicemails and deleting them.. why?!

      • Dee

        None of her DNA in his home should invalidate Brendan’s confession, thank you for pointing that out K-slay. I missed that and the information about the cat.

    • k-slay

      I also think the judge was in on it too.. why wouldn’t he let Brendon get a new attorny after he said he doesn’t believe he’s innocent? that’s a huge conflict of interest. Among of ton of other things, he seemed to be in line with the prosecution from the beginning.

    • swizzle

      The nephew deserves a new trial. I’m not sure why that’s not obvious to the courts. As his lawyer said, he’s of below average mental ability. I’d say very below average. The cops and the investigator hired by his own lawyer pressured him into the confession. In the video, he’s basically guessing at what they want to hear. It’s so sad. Then the investigator forces him to draw crime scene images by telling him….now draw her tied up to the bed. And those images are used against him in court? That was crazy.

      He has a team from Northwestern working on his case now. I hope they can get the confessions and drawings and all of that thrown out and get him a new, fair trial.

      Plus, if the victim was raped and then had her throat slit in that trailer, there’s not a chance in hell that they wouldn’t have found a spec of her DNA there.

      • k-slay

        Reading the comments below, I wish people knew what “beyond a reasonable doubt” means. Being a tax attorney, I have seen my share of court cases. If he did it or not, he did not have a fair trial with an impartial jury, the 6th & 7th amendment. The prosecution got to use parts of Brendan’s confession they wanted and not show the entire confession bc they knew the jury would see how forced it was. The jury was scared for their lives to vote they way they wanted. 7 of the jurors did not vote guilty in the beginning.. and two jurors had affiliation with the police dept. Jurors have come out saying they were afraid to not vote guilty. There is so much suspect evidence in this case you cannot say you know he did it. Casey Anthony gets off and there was A LOT more incriminating evidence without a doubt proving her part. If he did it or not, his civil liberties were violated.

      • steve

        If i were on a jury and six others felt like a not guilty verdict should apply, and five others were threatening us, why not “accidentally” do something and cause a mis-trial? Or at least kicked off the jury? They only gave one side to this story. Too many would have to be in a conspiracy for too long now to have kept quiet. Either he did it or is an accomplice and still guilty

  5. tamaratattles

    Here are all 3 parts of Brenden Dassey’s interviews. Quite long so I have not had time to watch.

    • Dee

      Brenden never had a chance with these officers interrogations. I hope this documentary gets someone’s attention. Thank you Tamara.

  6. Zazu

    My biggest issue is that Avery is saying that his brothers killed her and are framing him. That means that even he concedes the woman was killed on his property and the murder was covered up. I’m not saying it was a fully righteous arrest and conviction, just that there is very compelling evidence.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      I actually don’t take issue with this – he’s not accusing them, merely presenting the fact that a number of people *could* have murdered her. His lawyers are trying to establish reasonable doubt.

      • Zazu

        I heard him accuse his brothers. He isn’t pointing out that others could have done it. He is blatantly saying he thinks they did it and framed him. Very suspicious accusation.

    • lori

      On Dr. Phil, it was said that he does not truly think that his brothers had anything to do with it. I think his brother in law and nephew, who both lied may be involved in it. Those two are the top of the list for me.

      Either way, they both deserve a new trial. I am not hating this serious kitty karma however. That had nothing to do with Brendan though. I wanted to jump through my screen and strangle that disgusting Len. His face makes me incensed.

  7. Cara

    TT, I knew you’d get to this, as you are always on top of things! Thanks for providing a place to discuss. You rock.

  8. Lisaj

    My husband is in a well known motorcycle club. They are harassed daily. They now wear body cameras to protect themselves from police planting items on their persons. I wouldn’t have believed this 15 years ago that police could and do go to such extreme measures to get people unless I had witnessed it first hand.
    Is he guilty? Maybe but the shadow of doubt is overwhelming to me and had I been on the jury I would have voted not guilty and still to this day would. The way they rail roaded the nephew, despicable. The one positive thing that has come out of instant access news has been to show police corruption and thuggery. Arizona now wants to ban any filming of police without their consent and under 20 feet from their persons, we have a Sheriff that has paid out millions in corruption and wrongful death suits. Don’t think this could happen to you? Think again.
    I’d encourage everyone to watch the series before passing judgment and even then be open minded. Trial by the media has sent many an innocent man to prison. Great debate and case to follow TT.

    • The key facts to me are: a possible $36m claim which the insurance companies wouldn’t pay making the town and possibly individuals in it personally liable is enough to cast doubt. To then have two of those individuals (one of whom also let Steven rot in jail for 10yrs after receiving information from another police force that he was innocent) involved in searches, find her car key (with none of her DNA on it just Steven Avery’s) meant it should never have got to trial.
      On top of that you have a DA who is later kicked out for sex and prescription drug addiction; a defence attorney who just wanted to convict Steven and declared both guilty before he had met them but could always manage a smile and a quote for the cameras; police witnesses who couldn’t admit on the stand to making a mistake and sending Steven to jail for a crime he didn’t commit the first time even though DNA evidence proved otherwise.
      But most painful of all was watching Brendan. The police interviewing him need to go back to cop school: my 6 week forensic psychology course taught me how wrong it was to lead a witness. Brendan, with his IQ of under 70 who didn’t know what inconsistent meant (nor did his mum) who had no lawyer present was bullied, provoked and led into saying what he did.
      The whole series made me angry, frustrated and incredibly sad but I can’t say they are innocent, I wasn’t there and am well aware that this was biased towards the defence. And for those who say that Steven killed a cat so let him rot – that has nothing to do with why he is in jail now. I despise people who hurt animals, but I also know that people do sometimes do things they regret especially when they are young. I’ve seen nothing that says he did it more than once and I would rather show compassion and the benefit of the doubt than throw away the key.

      • k-slay

        completely agree.I hope something happens now that this all came to light, Especially for Brendan.

      • blaine

        I completely agree with your comment, thanks for saying it better and first!

        Thank you, TT, for the space to talk about this case.

        As someone who comes from hillbilly country, with loved ones who have intellectual deficits, this case resonates deeply with me. That poor Brendan. I just wanted to put my arm around him and let him know that a whole lot of people support him. I don’t understand how a judge could allow bits of that “confession” in trial.

      • Cat

        20 is not “young”. He was old enough to know better. Most serial killers kill animals when they are ” young”. The cat deserved better.LET THE CAT KILLER ROT.

      • Navymommy

        Serendipity. The cat killer and woman abuser got what he deserved. Fuck him, let him rot in jail for the rest of his natural life.

      • If the state of Wisconsin decided to douse him with gasoline and set him on fire, I’d be cool with that.

  9. This is like watching an episode of Fargo, the way the Averys say ‘yeah’ so much. I started watching this show believing Steven Avery was guilty because I’d seen a shorter story on another channel. But by the third episode I started to have doubts about many things. I wondered why this man would be so stupid as to return to a life of crime after being locked up for nearly 2 decades instead of waiting patiently for a possible million(s) dollar payout for false imprisonment. And if he did kill Teresa Halbach on his property, if he was able to get rid of all the blood evidence, why did he leave all the burned evidence uncovered? He could have gotten rid of her car by crushing it yet it was found on his property. This is why I believe the police may have been involved and everything came out the way they planned.
    Maybe Halbach was killed elsewhere, her body and belongings burned, then transferred to the Avery property. Her car was left among the many cars on the Avery lot, the key mysteriously found inside Steven’s place after many previous searches. Steven’s blood found inside the car was taken from an evidence kit that had been tampered with. There was taped evidence of one of the police officers asking questions about Halbach’s car before she was a victim.
    I think they knew they couldn’t afford a multi-million dollar payout and putting Avery back in jail with no financial means of getting out meant they could get him to settle for far less than he wanted just so he’d have money to fight the charges. And that’s what Steven did.
    The nephew was wrongly treated from day one, without legal representation, and when he did get a lawyer, the guy seemed more concerned with media attention than he did for his client.
    Of course, there is the possibility that Steven and his nephew did commit this crime and the police/lawyers didn’t want to take a chance on him getting away with murder. Maybe both sides had dirty hands.

  10. swizzle

    The ex-girlfriend is so unreliable. I don’t believe anything she says. She continued to profess her love for him and visit him when Avery was in jail. In jail, unable to hurt her. She certainly could have broken it off from him once he was in jail.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      Yes her explanation that she was afraid of Steven beating her made no sense to me. How is he going to do that when he’s in jail? I think that maybe she did believe he was innocent at the time, and she’s now changed her mind. She certainly seemed to be a doting fiance and strongly defended Steven in the series.

  11. I began watching with my defense attorney daughter when the series premiered. Avery is guilty. It would have taken a Cecil B. DeMille cast of thousands to frame him for murder, and then you would’ve had to keep the cast of thousands quiet. Everyone in the story is so sad, dumb, and unattractive. My favorite line in this documentary is part of his defense in the rape allegation: Avery’s attorney refutes evidence in a pair of underwear with, “Underwear? He’s never owned any underwear!” Wow.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      It would only take 2 – Lenk and the other guy, the career cop with the glasses. The one that took the call 10 years prior and knew Steven Avery was innocent of the rape. They could have moved her car, her remains, and put Steven’s blood in the car. I don’t think the whole police force was in on it, just a select few. Lenk found the key on the 7th search of Steven’s trailer – oh what a coincidence!

      I’m not saying he’s innocent, necessarily, but there’s no doubt in my mind police planted evidence.

      • steve

        For the police to plant her clothes and body in his burn pit you are saying the police killed her, just to frame him?

      • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

        Who knows what happened, I think maybe they found her elsewhere and just “knew” that Steven did it, so moved her remains and planted evidence. It doesn’t take more than one or two people to do that.

      • K Slay

        Right – the cop with glasses knew the car brand and plate before it was found (he shouldn’t have known the car brand and color) and Lenk found the keys on the SEVENTH search and the only search where Lenk wasn’t being watched. I think those two were involved and could be the only involvement.

      • This is a very small town. Everyone is related and knows everyone’s business. Everyone knew the cops hated Avery. In fact, a lot of people in the town hated the Avery family. I think the ex boyfriend and room mate killed Avery. They knew she was going to his place that day. They probably also knew he was going to have a bon fire. I wouldn’t be surprised if they got some Avery family member who was feuding with Avery to spread her bones, etc. and move the car into that lot. I don’t think the police had anything to do with her death. After the fact, they planted the key and smeared some of Avery’s blood into her car.

    • swizzle

      That’s why this case is so confusing. Setting up Avery for the murder would have been complex, but so many other things don’t add up either. She was supposedly raped and had her throat slit in his bedroom, but no blood or DNA found there. Then she was shot in his garage, but again no blood or DNA even when they dug up the concrete where it was cracked. And why would he do such a bad job of hiding her car when he could have easily crushed it?

  12. steve

    This “documentary” only presents one side to the story. Did they interview the victims relatives, or just his? Did the police plamt her bones and clothes in his burn pit? this is just like if jodi arias made a documentary about ninjas killing Travis Alexander, a skewed telling of the story

    • Clothes + bones in his burn pit = really bad fact.

    • Swizzle

      Her family did not want to be more involved. I understand why, but wonder if they regret that now. Bottom line for them is their loved one was killed. Reliving all this must be hard.

    • blaine

      Doesn’t the fact that the bones were scattered between at least three different sites suggest the bones were moved? I don’t understand how this mastermind with an IQ of 70 could remove any and all traces of this victim’s DNA from the “kill site” without disturbing any dirt or dust or his then girlfriend’s DNA (who was in jail at the time) but then burns the body in his front yard, in plain view of the road/neighbours/etc…

      The Halbach family has my sympathies but I just don’t feel convinced that this Avery murdered their daughter beyond a reasonable doubt.

    • Jodi Arias did make a video about the 2 ninjas….remember… 48 hours, or one of those news programs. Before she changed her story the 3rd time, to self defense. Your comment linking these together was really spot on, I had not put that together like you did. Really good comment.

      • Sorry, this was in reply to Steve’s comment up above. I can’t ever get my response’s to “nest” in he correct place.

  13. Angel(?)

    I suppose that all the DNA and ballistics evidence could have been planted by law enforcement just like it was in the OJ case. I suppose that two different counties’ law enforcement departments, officials, experts, and crime labs could all be in on it just like the OJ case. Am I the only one that feels like the defense claims sound a lot like the defense claims in the OJ case?

    Someone explain to me how her car, her burned body parts, and bullets matching Avery’s gun were planted by the cops without Avery or his family noticing? Also how did the cops know that Avery had requested that Teresa be the photographer sent to take pictures of his property, what day she was going to Avery’s and that he called her repeatedly on that day to confirm she was coming? Seems to me that in order to set him up, they would have to know this information before hand because her car was found on his property 2 days after Teresa was reported missing. Somehow the police found her and her car and planted the car and burned her body on Avery’s property within a day?

    His nephew has a better chance of winning an appeal than he does.

    • Angelalaland

      The police had control of the property for 8 days. Things like the key were suddenly discovered on the 7th or 8th search during that time. The Avery’s were not allowed on the property during those 8 days. The cops could have done whatever they wanted during that time. They absolutely planted the key… So they could have easily planted anything else.

  14. Frosty

    I just began watching the first ep of the series and am already puzzled. The fingernail scrapings from the rape victim had 3 different sets of DNA: her own, unknown, and…Steve Avery.

    Now, Avery’s family provided an alibi for his whereabouts the entire day. So how did his skin cells wind up under the victim’s nails? Am I missing something here? Have I misheard? Was testing so poor back then it might be a false positive for Avery? If that is the case, why should other DNA tests be deemed reliable?

    I’m already pissed that the doc passes right over this issue as it’s hardly inconsequential.

    • Frosty

      Another thing that’s already bothering me is the number of times the doc requires me to make excuses for Avery. The robbery in his teen years – I can accept kids to pull stupid stunts sometimes. The cat? That’ more complicated. Aside from the fact it was torture, listen to the way he talks about it. In fact, listen to him talk about his threatening of his cousin, whatzername Morris. Detached, certainly no regret, but no anger either. Yet she was the real problem for gossiping and for calling the cops and making problems for Avery. The doc is deft in sliding any responsibility away from Avery and onto Morris. I may well change my opinion as the series progresses, these are just my first reactions to a case I didn’t know anything about until the show.

      • blaine

        I disagree that the documentary asks us to excuse horrific behavior. I feel like it is offering a complete picture of an imperfect (to put it mildly), unintelligent person.

    • Hmm why do need to make up stuff?Avery’s dna was not found. What was found was 11 pubic hairs. The forensic expert said the tests on the pubic hair included Avery’s portion of the population so yes it his pubic hair. Guess what? They didn’t even have fraking DNA tests in 1985 so there was not Dna of Avery found. Did you even really watch the Doc? The reason he was exonerated is because Dna testing became available. Once the pubic hairs were tested it conclusively proved it was not his and in fact a known serial rapist.

      • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

        VonMecha I did not recall Avery’s DNA being found either but I wasn’t 100% sure – thanks for clearing it up. I believe the *real* rapists DNA is what was found in the fingernail scrapings once DNA testing technology became sophisticated enough to use and this is what exonerated Steven.

    • Angelalaland

      His DnA was NOT found under her nails. Back then dna tests only grouped people by “allegels”? .. (I can’t remember the exact word/name) Something similar to blood type… Very few categories. Avery and the victim shared the same “allegel” much like sharing the same blood type. So the DNA found matched them BOTH. The point was there was another “allegel” that did not match them proving another person that was NOT Steve Avery.

  15. Tinalee

    I myself agree with you that I do not know if he is innocent or guilty but what I do know from the show is that they do deserve a retrial because of exactly what you said in your last paragraph. There was all of that in this docu series! Complete injustice, defense lawyers working with police, evidence tampering, the key was clearly planted, so much misconduct from the police of both counties, misconduct from the lawyers, misconduct from the judge and so on! Again do I know if he is innocent or guilty of course not! But I strongly believe the case needs to be reopened and reinvestigated properly!

  16. AshK

    This documentary series drove me insane. Argue whatever you want, but you can not tell me that there was not reasonable doubt in this case. Avery should have been found innocent.

    The police had the motive for setting him up, and it would have been easy for them to plant the bullet (they shot on their property all the time), the car (the officer who definitely saw the car before it was on Avery’s property), as well as the bones.

    The story they told for Steven’s trial said that the murder took place in his garage. The story they were going with in Brenden’s trial was that the murder took place in the bedroom. Regardless of where it was – where was her DNA? These two are both dumber than bricks, they would have not of been able to get rid of all of the evidence. They tore up the cement in the garage, and couldn’t find the blood. They tore up the bedroom how many times, and couldn’t find any blood.

    Brenden also said, that they cut her hair in his “confession”. If her hair was cut, then how was there a dried blood pattern in the back of her car?? Why would Steven of had to drive her body anywhere if he simply burned her in the back of his house?

    And if his girlfriend, Joanie or whatever her name is, was sooo afraid of him why did she violate their no contact order NUMEROUS times, and end up going to jail for it???? Does that sound like someone who is afraid of her boyfriend? Give me a break.

    Ugh, this case frustrates me to no end.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      I’m on the fence as to whether Steven did it or not, but I do NOT believe the murder happened in either the garage or the trailer. I’m leaning towards thinking the police found her remains elsewhere and moved them – now whether Steven did it or not, I don’t know but the sister’s husband seemed like an extremely shady character to me. If he did it I don’t think he had in mind that Steven would take the rap. I think the police stumbled onto this lucky opportunity to frame Steven (actually I think they believed he’d done it and they were doing what was necessary to make sure he was punished).

  17. TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

    So HLN asked Jodi if the police offered her anything to speak against Steven Avery. They asked her if the documentary filmmakers offered her anything to speak for Steven Avery. They failed to ask her if HLN offered her anything to speak about Steven Avery.

  18. I’ve watched the entire series and I admit I’m not convinced of Avery’s guilt, but neither am I convinced that he’s innocent–which by all standards would mean that he is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I am bothered about the fact that 7 jurors voted not guilty then we ended up with a unanimous verdict of guilty.

    I am extremely bothered by how Brendan was treated by the police. Let’s recall that his mother, Barb said she wanted to be in that interrogation with her son however the police did not allow her to be there, though they claimed she said she didn’t want to be. No mother in the world would turn down the opportunity to be with their child…an intellectually challenged child at that! I believe Brendan has an IQ of about 70.

    It is absolutely cause for investigation and possible disbarment against Brendan’s attorney Len who allowed his client to be interviewed by police with him (the attorney of record) being present. NO attorney worth their bar number would allow such a thing. Moreover, Len allows his investigator to force Brendan into drawing pictures of what allegedly happened. Whose side are those two on? Certainly not their client.

    That the police looked no further than Avery for suspects is unusual. What about her roommate? or ex Boyfriend? Do they have a motive? Possibly. What where they doing at Avery’s property anyway?

    While I dislike Avery’s former GF she has stayed stead fast in her claim (phone records prove what she said) that she called Avery from jail at 5:30 and he sounded fine and then she called him again at about 9:30 same night and he sounded fine. If Avery was in the middle of murdering this woman would he answer the phone? Possibly in an effort to establish an alibi. But he really is pretty low in IQ like his nephew. Is Avery really capable of pulling this off?

    No DNA in the home. NONE. Clearly Avery’s blood sample was tampered with. The FBI designs a test, suddenly retooling their equipment, etc to discover whether the blood smears found in the car came from the tube? Their expert said no way. Defense expert said there’s no way to say yes or no. The DNA found in the hood of the car? From sweat? No way Sweat is wet, it evaporizes and leaves no trace. That sounded to me like complete BS.

    I believe Avery’s defense team did an excellent job representing their client. Unfortunately, Avery may have to claim ineffective counsel to be able to get a new trial which would then bar his two attorney’s from defending him in a new trial.

    Having worked for a defense attorney for 15 years I have to say there are way too many inconsistencies and holes in the Prosecution’s case to be convinced that Avery is guilty. Let’s recall that the state’s attorney said, on the record, even if we planted the key there’s enough other evidence to convict him. Ok…what?!

  19. tamaratattles

    FYI the first episode on YouTube, Netflix put it up to encourage people to sign up it seems. I fell asleep watching it (I was very tired, it was not the show) so I didn’t see it all. However I did see the lady that said Avery has a 70 IQ. I do not believe that for many reasons. First of all, where did that information come from? Note to self: Start because if people believe the Celebrity financial ones…

    Anyway, 70 is a very important marker when it comes to IQ and is the demarcation for mental retardation. It’s also the exact same number assigned to the nephew. Do those two seem to have the same IQ to you? Steven is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree but I don’t think he is clinically retarded.

    I don’t know why that bothered me other than one false assertion calls the whole documentary into question for me. It is a beautifully directed program that is clearly attempting to leave the viewer feeling that Avery was framed TWICE.

    • I agree,TT. I also noticed how odd it is that the two IQ scores are 70. I certainly believe the nephew had been identified as having an Intellectual Development Disability. It sounds as if he had been “mainstreamed” for some classes. Steven Avery may not be working with triple digits, but he seems to function…sort of. Do you think lawyers/producers/others may have used 70 for Steven Avery because IDD could become leverage or mitigation in an appeal?

    • Mel

      Iq can change over time. Steve was a teenager when he got labeled with the 70 iq, and I dont think they showed any proof to where that number came from. Brendan however, is most definitely in the low iq range. is a really amazing idea

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      Not exactly the same…Dassey’s was said to be 73. By the end of the doc I was not so much left with the impression they were trying to make us believe Steven had been framed again as that there was reasonable doubt.

  20. tamaratattles

    At this point Steve is filing his own motions from jail. Another indication he is not mentally retarded. And low IQ is a mitigating factor for a sentence after conviction (and not relevant in a not guilty defense) I am not sure if they presented that during the mitigation phase.

  21. Mel

    Steve and his nephew really did not get fair trials, Kratz making false statements to the press before the trial, bringing in a surprise witness that gave a false statement – which the judge let slide- it goes on and on. I think the point of the documentary is to show how bad the criminal justice system is. They did not give these men a fair trial.
    The “sweat” dna was dismissed as evidence. 1-there is no such thing as sweat dna. 2-they discovered a miniscule ammount of steves dna under the hood, but, the person inspecting the car did not change gloves frim searching steves car to searching theresas car, so this evidence became un useable.
    People on Reddit just raised enough money to purchase the full trial transcripts.

    • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

      Thanks for clearing up the sweat dna, that was bothering me. A lot of this alleged “damning” evidence that was “left out” of the documentary seems to have been left out for good reason.

  22. Kim

    After watching the show, I strongly believe he was wrongly convicted. The “confession” his 16 yr old nephew made (authorities literally fed him the evidence they found) was a crock. His story changed several times until his confession matched the evidence. His nephew has an IQ below 70 & from watching his taped confession, it is clear that the boy doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand & his mother was not informed they were interviewing her son. The cops literally wrote his confession for him which he was then forced to sign. The cops made him change his statement until it matched the evidence they found (obviously if you watched the documentary). The “evidence” of the victim’s car key was 100% planted. They found it DAY 3, in plain sight, of searching his house (one of the officers testified that key was not there when they originally searched Avery’s home). Not to mention, it’s awfully convenient this happened during his trial suing his county for $36million, which because of their blatant misconduct, was not covered by insurance. Why would he kill this woman during that civil trial when he was going to be awarded MILLIONS?! Now in jail after his arrest, Steven was forced to accept a FRACTION of the settlement ($400k) which he needed to take to pay for attorneys. I find it hard to believe anyone that watched that documentary, will walk away thinking he’s guilty, there’s too much evidence to the contrary. By the way, one of the jurors assigned to his criminal case, was a volunteer at the sheriff’s office Avery was suing. If he was awarded that settlement, it would practically bankrupt the county since their insurance would not cover them due to negligence. He was about to receive a MILLIONS in a settlement from the county, WHY would he kill someone & risk millions of dollars?! He had no motive! He was absolutely railroaded!! NOT GUILTY!!

  23. I THOUGHT I’d seen a blog post about this show awhile back – love the “search” feature TT, thanks! Just binge watched this series (didn’t even know I had NETFLIX until my daughter showed me, lol – knew I had Amazon – wonder how much I’m paying for all this???) Can’t wait to come back and read all the comments and listen to the rest of the interviews! So far I think he was framed to an extent, but also tend to think he’s guilty.

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