The Terms of the Giudice Plea Deals In Plain English: Part Two, Juicy Joe

Jailbird Juicy

You gots a pretty mouf, Juicy…

Here is the basic (or complicated depending how you choose to look at it) breakdown of Juicy Joe’s Plea deal.  Remember what I tell you, despite the nimrods in comments who like to argue with me, the charges that JOE pleads to are very important with regard to his potential deportation.  The immigration court system is a whole nuther bailiwick. Despite the wailing and whining of some, the immigration system is very backlogged and dysfunctional, particularly under the current administration. We use the Mexipult  to fire some Mexicans back over the border, only to have them return time and time again, but deporting someone over the pond is costly and a pain in the ass. This is why our immigration courts focus mostly on drug offenses and those who are a “danger to the community.” But hey, it is Fat Tuesday and I am here writing about some Real Housewives going to prison while drinking on an empty stomach, so if you want to argue with me, I should be available to insult your intelligence in comments in a couple hours.

Meanwhile, let’s start by looking at what Giuseppe plead guilty to. Hmm, I am already confused by the count numbers which don’t seem to match up to the ones I used for the explanation of Teresa’s charges. Nonetheless here is what Joe pled guilty to.

Count One: CONSPIRACY to commit mail and wire fraud Max  20 Years /$250K fine
Count Fifteen: Concealment of Assets. Max Five Years /$250K fine
Count Twenty-Two: False Oaths Max Five Years /$250K fine
Count Thirty-Six: False Declarations Max Five Years/$250K fine
Count Thirty-Seven: Failure to File Income Tax  Max One Year/$25K fine

DIna on Karma

Gifs by RealityTVGifs

And boys and girls, that is pretty much game, set match with Giuseppe’s attorney saving Juicy from being deported. None of those charges are “aggravated felonies” according to the Immigration Court system of these United States. (Okay I just came back to edit this, the false oaths and false declaration charges are with the whole SCOPE of bank fraud, so it would be up the Immigration Court interpretation to determine if they are considered aggravated felonies but I really don’t think it matters either way. ) The judge can squawk all the live long day about him being likely to be deported or whatever else some source claims she allegedly said today, but deportation is not up to her. Hear me now and listen to me later, I don’t have to read any further to know that Juicy will not be deported. Anything you hear anywhere else is journalistic sensationalism. Talk to me six years from now.  He’s not a threat to society, he has not been convicted of a drug charge, and he has no aggravated felony charges within the definitions of our Immigration Court System (probably).

So worst case scenario if the judge does not accept Juicy’s plea deal is 36 years and a million or so in fines. NOTE: Please do not confuse FINES with RESTITUTION. Trust, the FEDS will get their money back or die trying. Don’t mess with the FEDS.

Joe’s plea deal hold him “jointly and separately liable” with Teresa which means the FEDS can come after any of Tre’s assets while he is in jail becoming someone else’s REAL housewife for the next few years.  There is a whole bunch of legal crap in there that says the FEDS are about to take his house and any money either one of them have “related to the criminal activity” which is pretty much everything they own, again JOINTLY or SEPARATELY.  So, um, hello hair bows from Family Dollar indeed. Not that there is anything wrong with hair bows from family dollar.

Another interesting thing in Joe’s forfeiture section is that he has no agreement in the deal to pay the IRS any some of money before sentencing, yet Tre has to pay them $200,000.  He does have to refile/file taxes from 2000 -2011 and make those payments, or arrangements for a payment plan before sentencing.

rhonj  tre joe

Well now, this is all sorts of inappropriate. #sorry

Next is the Immigration Consequences  part which is just the same as Teresa’s and equally irrelevant. It just says that any immigration stuff will be handled by the immigration courts if they feel like taking the case, which they won’t for reasons I have stated above.  Although, I am still fascinated by the whole “I thought I was a citizen story” though it really doesn’t affect anything.

Wow, the first big thing, and it is big, is that they got four of the five counts Joe pled to grouped together. That is pretty huge. The plea reads pretty much, since all of this stuff is based on how much money he stole and he did it all around the same time, we are going to just group it all together and look at it as one big charge with the one sentence.

So next they want to agree on his magic sentencing number. Remember, Teresa’s is 16 and they start with a 7 and add stuff.  Hmmm this is weird, they agree that the “loss” was more than 400k but less than a million so he goes up 14 points. That places him a 21 for now, but really less than a million? I guess they paid back some of those loans? Or more likely the FEDS agreed to the whole “less than a million” part as part of the plea deal. Anyway, moving on… He also got two points for lying at the bankruptcy hearing so they agree he is a level 23 offender for the fraud counts. For the TAX counts he is a level 18.

Okay, just trust me when I say that the way the system works based on the above is the Juicy gets an overall level of 24. Don’t argue with me about it not making sense. It’s just the way the law works. Welcome to America, we suck at math. The important thing is Joe is a 24 and Tre is a 16. I think. Who the hell knows what the important thing is anymore.  Oh wait, Joe copped a plea so subtract three more points. Joe is a 21 and Tre is a 16.

So the plea agreement essentially is to agree that Joe is a level 21 offender.  We keep hearing ( and I’ve said myself) that the plea deal is offering 37-46 months for Juicy.  But there is another part of the sentencing process, I assume that Tre is pretty much a first time offender, so her plea is pretty straight forward.  The criminal history part of sentencing is a bit more complicated (If you care you can read all about it here).  I don’t know how much time Joe has done consecutively for any of his mostly traffic related violations, and he has not been sentenced on the state level yet. But I doubt he has anything that would push him into level two and if he did the max there is only five more months so it wasn’t worth me stressing over.

So there you have it. Joe will do between 3 and 4 years with no deportation. Tre will get to meet some cute girls in the big house and be out in less than two years (if they don’t win the mommy plea for house arrest).  The End.

Can someone do some sort of tribal interpretative dance on YouTube to translate my posts today to into ghetto for the thugs at that one message board that loves criminal activity, like stealing my intellectual property? They be not understanding.  Thanks in advance.

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76 Comments

Filed under Joe Giudice, Real Housewives of New Jersey, RHONJ, Teresa Giudice

76 responses to “The Terms of the Giudice Plea Deals In Plain English: Part Two, Juicy Joe

  1. It’s been a long day and still going through emails, but I really, REALLY appreciate the tips in the tip jar today. Thanks you guys. PS The smallest tip I ever got was less than a dollar, so everything counts! :)

    • theREALHWOFNJ

      Thank you TT for breaking it down for us. I am a resident of NJ and my paper just gave them a few paragraphs. I was wondering if Andy is thinking of doing the Real Housewives of Edna Mahn WCF?

  2. Many thanks for your intelligent, thorough hard work TT! You are the go-to source!

  3. Riley

    TT…you da bomb! Another “ATTA GIRL” until I get some tips to send your way. You deserve every dollar.
    Thanks….

    • nice words are just as good as tips. Maybe even better. No worries at all.

      On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:11 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

      >

      • lori

        I still be sure to keep that in mind when my funds are low. :)

      • Glory of Old IU

        I really like how facts are researched and set forth here without hyperbole or childish name calling. This Teresa and Joe issue, more than any other, has pitted commenters against each other in vicious exchanges on every HW site I’ve looked at except this one. It’s amazing how worked up people get over these shows and how much they identify with and root for or against the characters, to the point of being really nasty to total strangers with different viewpoints. Thanks to TT and everyone here for acting civilized. I think this will be my new go-to site for HW info.

  4. Thanks for the recap. Wow. Winder what Apollo’s plea deal will look like?

  5. Amy

    TT, thank you for explaining all this legal crap, and I agree you are the go to source.

  6. Popcorn and Vodka (@popcornandvodka)

    I wonder if Tre and Joe come here to understand the charges they pled to. I can’t imagine their attorneys could explain things better.

    • Okay, so you start at a seven, seven is good…. It’s like some fucking complicated as hell Vegas game…

      On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:31 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

      >

      • JoJo

        That game would be Baccarat – associated usually with very, very rich Asians in private areas of high-end casinos here. I heard “Pharoah” was complicated in the Wild Wild.West, but I only know of Kurt Russell playing that game in “Tombstone”:))

  7. KReality

    Again pleading to the 5 of 41 counts…seems to me he FEDSare more interested I getting their money back than convicting them of what they actually did. Teresa and Joe will come out saying they were innocent of everything else just to feed their narcissism.

  8. I bet they won’t lose the house and I agree tre will get house arrest ! They need to do something with them both .who does this and gets house arrest and still lives the way they do , it’s absurd very absurd

    • lori

      now see??? I think they should def lose that house and all have to go live in a one bedroom, very used apartment in one of Joe’s old slum buildings. That would be a great reality show too. RHOTS.

  9. KReality

    I recall Joe saying on WWHL that he had a green card which means he knew he wasn’t a US citizen

  10. KReality

    Well I must admit they have some pretty good attorneys or they know someone in the prosecutors office. To agree to 5 out of 41 counts? None of which dealing with defrauding the banks? Maybe they paid that money back… I think the prosecutors were weak for agreeing to such terms.

  11. Kind lost at your comment TT. Who is sheesa? What is that email address? I dropped in $10 for you but would’ve done more if I could. I’m retired and live with my daughter. Your site is excellent!

    • TEN DOLLARS IS AWESOME! THanks so much! It’s a tip jar, it does’t have to be fancy! Thanks Again! Ignore Seeshas. lol

      On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:29 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

      >

      • mannysgrammy

        I owe you a few clinks in your tip jar too & will happily make that happen :*)) Just waiting for a payment myself in PP from surveys, than i’ll share. Keep up the awesome work~makes for some great reading & learning!

  12. You are really brilliant to do this work. Reading documents like those scramble the brain. I can’t comment on Joe yet, need a little time.

    Next time I go to town I’ll pick up a cash/gift card and donate like that. I had not wanted to use my bank card, I seldom use it anywhere. I read that PayPal now accepts certain cash/gift cards, yeah!
    I quit smoking so I can donate a couple packs.

    • Again, if you have a paypal account, a couple of bucks in the tip jar is great. If you don’t, please don’t worry about it. I worked for a bajillion years without anyone admitting I was good at what I do. Just a simple “nice work!” is really all anyone wants in life. Appreciation is worth way more than dollars…. :)

      On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

      >

      • I have not tried it yet but from what I’m reading I can TIP without joining PayPal with a gift card. I want to, I’ve been spending my smoking money on things I normally have not been able to. It’s like a gift to myself.

      • Kitty Mamma

        TT: I want you to know that I think you’re an uber talented, super hero blogger. I had no idea that numerical values were assigned to criminal felony cases. I figured each charge(s) was pled. It certainly doesn’t seem advantageous to deport Joe. How would US get restitution? I do know that Obama has deported more than 2 million. That is a lot!
        Lastly, I’m sorry you had to work so long being treated so poorly. I work in an all male industry. I am a single mother, and my boss curses me out all the time. It’s time for single women, mothers, and minorites to be appreciated for the contributions we make to society. We rock!

      • You seem VERY confused about a lot of things.

        You can read here http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/19/us-deportations-plummet-2013-report/?page=allabout Obama’s deportation record. Also I was an educator which is primarily female…

        On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

        >

      • Kitty Mamma

        @ TT: Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. I assure you that I am not confused, though.
        My apologies: I cannot reference the Obama/deportation article I read in my local paper today since it is at the office. A quick google search of “Obama+deportation” came up with this:
        “America’s Deportation Machine” (The Economist) 02.08.14
        ” Barack Obama has presided over one of the largest peacetime outflows of people in America’s History”
        TheReviewJournal.com, 01.27.14
        “Dems Press Obama to Stop Deportations”
        Reuters, Mexico City, 02.27.14
        Mexico Pres ‘Indignant’ at US Deportations”
        TheDailyBeast, 02.11.14
        Deportations More Than 1,100 Illegal Immigrants Per Day-Why Obama Can- And Should Stop Sending Away Would Be Americans”
        Also, Tam, I’m truly sorry if you misunderstood me earlier: it doesn’t matter for whom you worked with or for. I don’t understand why you got upset.

      • lilk

        I am glad Pres Obama is deporting. You came here illegally,go back. You had kids, leave them or take them back with you. I have no sympathey. We cant go to Salvador, Guatemala and work so why should you be allowed to come here.

    • Kitty Mamma

      @ calli: I want to congratulate you on giving up smokes. I totally gave up smokes for Lent, myself. I do admit to “vaping,” though. It has helped me keep my sanity. And it is much cheaper!

  13. spk

    Wow – what unbelievable work you did on both their pleas! Legal stuff is a bit like cracking code but your re-interpretation was delicious fun. But you can’t get an interpretive dance outta me. At least, not on youtube. If I knew what site was plagiarizing you, I’d happily go drop a few stinkers on their message board.

    Thanks for the hard work Tamara! I want them to pay for their behavior but I don’t like the scenario for their kids. Anyones kids.

  14. Kee

    Lets be real here, TT pretty much has summed up the worst case senario for these two. More than likely they will be hurt financially before they actually see more than a few months behind bars. This is about money. The US is the worst kind of bill collector. And deportation? Please, they’d ship all of us back to Africa before they even entertained it letting Joe be deported. All of those charges were just a legal shakedown. Its nothing new here folks. Thanks for saving me the time and trouble of watching this crap play out on the next season on RHONJ TT!

    • prettykittyeyes

      Agreed!! She will get house arrest and he will serve a year or less. We revolve around the all mighty dollar, sad…but true.

  15. Teresa

    Tamara, I read your blog daily, although I rarely comment. I really never was interested enough to follow the Guidice legal saga, that is…until I read your post about what they was being charged with. I was shocked. Never before has ANY website explained this case with such ease , that even the simplest minds could understand. Very impressive.

    I wonder if you have a legal background or teach. I know when I come to your blog that your posts are factual and you have researched your work.

    Just wanted you to know that you are appreciated.

  16. Katherine

    Brilliant breakdown of charges/plea. Thanks TT. Tip coming ur way later today when back on!

  17. Thanks for all your hard work!

    It is amazing to read that the Feds would agree to just 37-46 months after reading through your blog post about the 41! charges, even though as you say it’s really up to the judge. I realize 3 – 4 years would be a long prison sentence for anyone, but then again I reference ALL those charges against him. Guess they hit hard and negotiate down?

    I hope the government will keep after them for every nickel owed though – plus interest, plus penalties just like they go after people who owe $100 in back taxes….

    Regarding the deportation thing – can you imagine if they did go back to Italy, they’d be such celebrities! At this point they’d probably have a better life there than here, I’m sure there’s some sort of Italian reality show Tre could be on:) – and not owe any taxes to Uncle Sam!

  18. Tamara, thank you for the breakdown of charges and sentencing guidelines. I can only imagine how much time went into research and writing. It really is appreciated.
    I agree with you about the deportation issue. I don’t think hell be deported. He can stay here, hopefully while he does an additional few years of probation. I’d like to see him closely monitored to be sure he is making his court ordered restitution and paying his fines.

  19. I’m betting she serves first. Then when it’s time to go in he says DEPORT ME!!

    That’s what I’d do. I’d way rather live in Italy. But jersey guidons REALKY are far removed from Italy. They want to live trashy lives instead.

    • JoJo

      But can you even see in a million years Teresa harnessing the 4 girls and moving to Italy?

      • Only if there was unlimited shopping involved.

      • They’d be huge celebrities and love it.

      • JoJo

        Ok, I can see that flip side and it is the parents’ decision. But Gia (even that terrorist Melania) would most likely be kicking and screaming being uprooted. I would only say that because I was the exact age, 13, when I was dragged off to the Bahamas because of dad’s work, and I went on a hunger strike for 2 weeks – it didn’t work, but I was pissed for the first month of the total 2 years, In kid time it seemed an eternity :)

    • Wait. You ACTUALLY think they would be celebrities in Italy???? Um…no.

      Anyway, I said they won’t do it because they are trash.

      • Oh yes, they would be celebrated. Take a look at Berlusconi, their longest serving Prime Minister. One of his usual descriptors after “former Prime Minister” is: “frequent criminal defendant”! The guy is more crooked than Tony Soprano, yet is celebrated. They’re not even sending him to jail for the latest round of convictions because he’s over 70, what?!

        The Italians would love the on-going soap opera that is the Giudice family. (and the love, love, love would be returned!)

      • You are a moron. Did you happen to notice that Italy and Florence tried to bar the Jersey Shore idiots from the country? And when they did force their way in, no one gave them the time of day. They were ridiculed and laughed at by the locals in night clubs night after night until they just stopped going out.

        You know nothing about Italy or real Italians.

      • Thanks for your comments, they gave me a good, hearty laugh. Especially the name calling!

        And “a shut in who has never left her home” sounds rather nice right now. I love my home. Although I have travelled extensively through 5 continents, don’t really want to get out my passport and count countries right now, but they include Italy, (3 times – gasp!). Add to that growing up abroad and perhaps those experiences broadened my horizons a bit.

        The Italians didn’t like the Jersey Shore in my opinion because they only like it when men have sexual exploits, not the women with whom those exploits are enjoyed. And as much as Joe and Tre are criminals, as far as we know, only Joe has had sexual exploits outside the marriage, not Tre, so that’s okay. In fact Tre has told us she was a virgin when she married, so ding ding ding – double bonus!

        Although modest as Italians would like to appear, they did elect a hard-core porn star to their Parliament, (La Cicciolina) so there is that. And we won’t even get into that little area within their borders that hasn’t been so kind to young boys, maybe you’ve heard of the Vatican? Oh, and I’ll mention Berlusconi again whose recorded crimes are SO LONG, it would take up too much space here to list; including sexual crimes (underage prostitues anyone?) as well as his infamous “bunga bunga” parties; not even mentioning his political corruption. It makes Joe and Tre’s crimes look nothing worse than a 2nd grader stealing an eraser from the teacher’s desk. Giudice’s look rather wholesome in comparison. As bad as financial fraud is, I’ll take that over kiddie-fuckers any day of the week. (And excuse my “French”, I can’t take credit for that little term as it comes from Tim Minchin’s awesome song.)

        So perhaps before you make Italy into some holier than thou sanctuary (“thou” being Americans apparently), you should do a little research – because that lily is quite dirty. Then again, that’s my opinion. You’re entitled to yours, which apparently comes with childish name-calling.

      • Wow. Your a long winded moron. And absolutely wrong.

      • you’re.

        /ducksandruns

        On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:36 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

        >

      • I’m right AND I know when to use “you’re” versus “your”.

      • You’re wrong and an idiot. TT pointed out my mistake. You’re an unoriginal twat. Funny how you’re all blathering about name calling. You’ve called people way more names than I have. And I’m calling you, who is here , a fucking jackass. You choose to call people who are not here to defend themselves vile names. You’re small and ignorant.

      • Ooooohhhh teecee66! I’m shuddering. NOT.

        Glad to see you don’t let yourself get confused by facts.

        Maybe some day when you can actually have a dialogue I’ll look forward to conversing with you. For now your tactic seems to be resorting to childish name calling when you don’t get your way – although it is rather amusing so I’ll give you that.

        Perhaps when you get some education you can learn new words and actually have a conversation. But then hope springs eternal.

        Have a wonderful day!

  20. JoJo

    Nothing exemplifies more than in this case against the Giudices what having or being able to afford a very, very good attorney can mean. A federal public defender, who most would end up with, would be highly unlikely to successfully negotiate a plea deal as favorable as this.
    And now I know why I thought that the deportation although possible, is unlikely.
    But I spit my ice tea when I read “We use the Mexipult to fire some Mexicans back over the border….”!
    And I’m certain if Juicy Joe seriously faced deportation, TT would have said “Italipult to fire Italians back to Italy or ‘ConRoma’ to fly them back over the pond” – should any offense be taken :)

  21. Monihew

    He is just a nasty looking Neanderthal!!

  22. I do believe our fair TT was a teacher. She is well educated and worldly which is why her site is growing. The Tre Huggers and Bravo is sighing with relief over that sweeeet deal! I hope Juicy Joe doesn’t do an Apollo when he gets out.

  23. Georgia

    Tks Miss T for all your hard work! You are very talented. Check your tip jar :)

  24. Fahlina_G

    “Mexipult”!!!!

  25. Randi

    Hi, Tamara. You’ve done it again. I wish you could sit down with Guidices and explain your posts because I doubt they understand it as well as you do. (And also that you could come back to us with some tea!)

    I guess I just don’t understand where their money is going to come from to pay the government-and lawyer fees. Do they have it?

  26. On behalf of my deported brethren, I am OUTRAGED at your use of the term Mexipult(tm).

    • I put that in there just for you…

      On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

      >

    • My husband was born in Mexio (and, no, he did not compete in the Mexican Olympics) and he thought the “Mexipult” comment was hysterical. :-)

      • puravidacostarica2

        *Mexico* (or – “meh-eeh-ko” for the natives!)

      • lol. I totally forgot about that Mexican. TeeCee is Mexican too, alledgedly. But the truth is if we can’t Mexipult them, or Canookianpult them we don’t do a lot of deportation. We do TOTALLY FUCK with Europeans who overstay they Visa to be with their Significant Others though. And that sucks a big titty. Why are we so hard on the Brits that we literally detain them for being over their Visa and ship their ass back to the motherland when all they are trying to do is get a little ass? Welcome to Amerika… sigh.

        On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Tamara Tattles wrote:

        >

      • Kitty Mamma

        I’m pretty sure TT’s Mexipult comment was totally tongue in cheek. You can’t even drive in Alabama if you’re brown without fear of being pulled over. Deportations are at an all-time high. The Mexican Pres. says he is “indignant.” Many deportees wind up murdered, decapitated. I thought The US of A was supposed to be a melting pot.

  27. WhyOWhy

    I’m pretty sure I just snorted when I read “Mexipult.” I am totally going to work that into a conversation every time I can.

  28. @ teecee you must have been referred to as a moron a lot while growing up.

  29. Eli

    I’m not one to usually comment on any one’s bad (because we all have our fair share), however, the question I have in mind is around the mansion. Do we know if this was hidden from assets under some false name/trust/ownership? If not, and assuming the Feds come in and leave her homeless, and assuming the judge picks up the house arrest plea for Teresa, where will she serve her time? Better start mending that bridge with the Gorga’s, so she can move in and be good Auntie Tre. I can see it now, a Bravo Spinoff, The Gorga & Guidice Bunch.

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